Re: vr6 and the competition

[Eliot Lim <eliot@u.washington.edu>]

On Mon, 13 Nov 1995 PDQSHIP@aol.com wrote:

>The
> audi in automatic form is a dog, torque brake, it's ok, but comparing liter
> to liter the bmw has a better first execution.... 

hmmm.  there are other factors besides the engine here.  such as the
inertia of the 4wd drivetrain, the heavier body of the audi.  you can't
really compare the engine's performance unless you've had an engine swap.
i.e. sticking the audi v8 in the bimmer and vice versa. you can speak of
the performance differences of both *cars*, but i don't agree that you can
draw too many conclusions about the engines themselves when they are
installed in totally different cars, driving radically different
drivetrains.  in terms of smoothness and refinement there is little to
differentiate them. 

>  throw in the very smooth 5spd auto of even the 3liter, and the early audi v8
> can hardly hold its own........  

i'm afraid this really is an apples to orange comparison.  the cars
don't weigh the same, one's rwd, the other awd.. the only conclusion
you can draw is that one car is faster than the other in the dry. you
can't make any conclusions about the engines from this.

> Unreliable has not been a word that I've read about the bmw, and
> well, um, you know, uh, well, the audis aren't exactly known for that r word
> at all

i wasn't talking about peripherals, i was talking about the engine
itself.  mine has not missed a tick since day 1.  the mechanics swear
by it.  and CAR magazine is not one that is inhibited about reporting
embarassing news.

>Example:  325i
> 4door will (and that's 2.5 liter I-6) puts it in the same league as the
> corrado, with little price advantage going to the corrado......  

i drove several 325i's and was genuinely disappointed.  the steering
was too low geared, heavy and uncommunicative, the engine sounded
really coarse for a 6 and it didn't feel really quick to my spine.  no
comparison to a vr6 powered car, IMO.  i did enjoy the balance, but i
don't really think that it is that easily rear wheel steerable off
track.  structurally it doesn't feel up to current standards either.
i'm sure i'm in the minority, but i think the 3 series is way
overrated.

i haven't tried the M3 yet, but with servotronic steering i am not
salivating at the prospect at all.

>The vr6 just
> hasn't seen that potential, and per your argument, never will........   

and that is a shame, because in a 3000 lb or less car, i wouldn't want
anything else.  who knows what the 5 valve audi v6 will be like.. it
may be the next generation of killer Q's...

> also drove a vr6 golf, too, and found little to get excited about, lots of
> motor, but no refinement to it or the chassis it was stuffed in to........

yes, they really f***'d up the chassis, but i think they are rectifying
it for the 96 models...

of course the *obvious* thing they should do is reduce the weight of
the cars, rather than keep increasing weight and increasing bhp.  it
is indeed sad that one has to get up to porsche levels to see offerings
of reduced junk.  and it is even sadder that porsche is charging more
money for the stripped cars.  why can't they just not install the junk
at the factory and pass the savings along?

eliot