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RE: Ticket BS

Please take this "mine is bigger" off-line. It is not contributing to this
list at all.

Ian Duff, New Bedford, MA
1990 Coupe Quattro

>From: 	dismiss@earthlink.net[SMTP:dismiss@earthlink.net]
>Sent: 	Saturday, April 06, 1996 4:28 PM
>To: 	quattro@coimbra.ans.net
>Subject: 	Ticket BS
>Not to publicize this on the Quattro page, but just to clarify...
>>>>Any clerk will know what an abstract is....  Whatever.  Take a
>trip to the judge's office where you were last "convicted" and see.  Two
>types of docket sheets:  Court docket and Case docket.  You should know
>I deal with clerks in several courtrooms every day, and more over I am in
>the prosecutor's office every day also.  I have experience with all kinds
>of clerks, in several jurisdictions.  On that note, you said "docket sheet"
>and this implies the "daily docket."  As far as court docket and case
>docket, the difference?  Are you implying that one is some sort of a master
>list the clerk keeps on every case in front of a judge?  Its usually called
>a computer database, in most jurisdiction kept on a county-wide basis,
>unless of course you are talking about CLETS, CII, FBI2, NCIC, NCIC2.....
>>>>Dismiss Ticket.  "Cannot be done"<<<  What planet did you fly in from???
>>>>Get it done for my friends.>>>
>I don't believe I said you CAN'T get a ticket dismissed, because it is
>obvious you can.  You said a ticket will be dismissed sometimes if you pay
>a fine.  Well, I don't know where you live, but good luck in CA getting
>this, and from what I have seen in other states, it just does not happen
>this way.  Now, if you are talking about a minor possession charge and that
>being dismissed AFTER the completion of a "Drug Education Class" (like
>traffic school, then dismissal) that is different.  Review your Con Law
>principles counselor, you should know the difference.  The class/traffic
>school is not legally considered "punishment" as is a fine.  Nobody pays a
>fine and has the ticket dismissed, unless you are in court that plays by a
>set of rules enacted on "another planet".
>>>>Again, there is really no such thing as "pay a triple fine and
>have the ticket dismissed  YOU CANNOT BE PUNISHED IF YOU DO NOT GET
>CONVICTED OF SOMETHING"<<<<  Come on.  If you are a judge, then maybe you
>don't know what gets done outside your court.  If you are a lawyer, and
>do this for a living, then you ought to know it is done--regularly.
>Again, BTDT.  The point to all this traffic mess is you have to find
>someone that can work with the prosecutor.  If that happens to be a
>"traffic lawyer" then great, you got off cheap[er].  BUT, don't tell me
>it can't be done, 'cause I got it done for a buddy who is a commercial
>driver LAST WEEK!!  You don't think he was happy to pay a fine and not
>have it go to the BMV?  BTW, I charged him $0.00.  Took 15 minutes and he
>wasn't even in the State.<<<
>I realize you have some sort of grudge against traffic lawyers, but it
>sounds like you are a civil lawyer who thinks he can skate in and "smooth
>everything over" like it is no big deal.  You paint a picture that is
>misleading.  Traffic violations are no longer treated as Mickey Mouse
>charges like they were ten years ago.  What are your legal grounds for
>rationalizing that what your court does is constitutional?  Apparently your
>jurisdiction has many defendants who are wholly unaware of their rights and
>the case law behind punishment and fines.
>I'll bet the DMV will get info on your buddy, because most states require
>ALL proceedings brought against Commercial Drivers be forwarded to the
>BMV/DMV.  Remember that little thing like "the standard of care for experts
>(commercial drivers) being a little more that the average, reasonable
>person...etc."?  But seriously counselor, if you pay a fine, you are
>admitting guilt, regardless of the points.  You are being convicted and
>there will be a record, no matter what you think.  Otherwise, your court is
>engaged in some sort of money making scheme.
>>>>Expungement<<<  I didn't say [did I?] that a prosecutor could
>expunge your record.  You infer however, that things like DUI can't be
>expunged.  Again, BTDT.  Heard of deferred prosecution?<<<
>Yes, you did say that.  Deferred prosecution?  You mean a "stay of
>proceedings"?  A deferred prosecution (as you put it) normally means the
>court will stay the proceddings until you complete traffic school or
>otherwise.  Moreover, if it is a misdemeanor (not an infraction) you will
>have to get the defendant to waive time....but that's "BTDT" as you say.
>Some states will let a DUI be expunged, but the legal effect may only be
>that employers, etc. may not be able to view the info, but the conviction
>in most states will still serve as a first offense.  Other states will not
>let certain "movers" be expunged.  I do not think I implied it could not,
>under any circumstances, be expunged.
>>>>"judicial notice" of the validity of radar guns<<<  Right and
>wrong.  If you don't make an issue of the calibration of the gun it will
>be accepted.  If you are a judge but don't allow experts on the issue of
>radar guns--shame on you.  They are NOT always right. BTDT.
>I did imply a wholesale denial of expert testimony on calibration issues.
>This will almost certainly come in.  The JN was to the validity of a radar
>gun in general, which in most jurisdictions is a decided issue.  I do not
>believe I ever came close to stating that the guns are always right.  Which
>ones are you talking about?  Stalkers, MPH's, K-55's....?
>>>>traffic lawyers<<<  Some good some bad.  Nothing new there.  I
>was not insinuating incompetence across the board.  As for "smoking" a
>"regular" crimminal defense lawyer, well, believe what you will.  Some
>lawyers go to traffic so they can feed their family.  No problem here
>with that.  However, most "regular" [your word] crimminal defense lawyers
>avoid traffic like the plague.  Let's put it this way, good trial lawyers
>don't turn down securities work or product cases in order to keep their
>calender open for traffic court.  Never charged a dime for working out
>traffic stuff--done strictly as a favor for friends.  Most good crimminal
>defense lawyers are too busy on paying cases to work out a ticket.
>Except for a friend.<<<
>You make it sound like I am talking about those who advertise "PI, Probate,
>Divorce, Criminal, Traffic...etc."  I am talking about those guys who are
>EXPERTS.  There are very few, and I doubt you have ever met any of them.
>"Regular" was a layman term for those on the list without the legal
>background.  Semantics are semantics (except in court, of course).  Where
>do you practice?  How can you say most criminal defense lawyers avoid
>traffic like the plague?  I know many criminal defense lawyers that see
>these as an opportunity to make good money with relatively uncomplicated
>legal issues and no real time drain.
>"Good" trial lawyers specialize, and they do often turn down securities and
>product liability cases because they are not EXPERTS on this.  The "good"
>general trial lawyer you refer to is a dying breed.  Kind of like the last
>"general practitioner" MD I saw who was telling me about the AIDS research
>he was doing right after his last neurosurgery....
>BTW, does representing your friend in a traffic matter count as pro bono at
>your firm?  Also, I do think traffic cases are considered "paying cases,"
>as I am sure no lawyer (other than lottery winners) does pro bono traffic
>cases (unless, like you, he knows the defendant).
>>>>Inaccurate Information<<<  To coin an old phrase, ain't a cowboy 'til
>>>>you stepped in shit.  Been in shit from Denver to Dallas, Miami to
>>>>Michigan, never once been accused of givin' bad information.  Just call
>>>>it like I see it and like I do it.<<<
>Yeah, I guess working for a federal judge, a large corporate firm, in-house
>for a Fortune 500 company, and the DA's office won't qualify as having
>"stepped in shit".  BTW, these were not all in California.  You may have
>not been accused of givin' bad info before, but it seems to me in this
>Oh, forget it.
>The Judge
>'90 80Q
>'85 5K (real son of a bitch; gone and forgotten)
>'84 VW Scirocco 16V Wolfsburg Ed.
>                         ^
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>             The Ol' Scales of Justice