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Re: the Duke of Earl

In a message dated 96-11-23 07:07:24 EST, you write:
 > My observations are that when C & C seals are going phil, oil on the
 > of the motor are readily apparent....
 Nah.  Not on my MB, which is a close relative of the 3B.  Not a drop.  And
 should have seen the state of the recovered oil seal.
 >>>>  Which seal....  My experience has been that the removal of the crank
seal doesn't leave any room for inspection...  The camshaft seal sure....
 But, I've also found that either seal causes at least a wet engine front
when compromised....  Those seals are to prevent leakage, not to prevent air
incoming....  If it is large enough to suck air is was leaking, behind the
valve cover maybe but it was...  I've seen compromised valve cover seals in
the rear plug that make a non dripping but oil wet rear head....  Did you buy
the car new?  If not, phil, maybe someone reversed the oil seals
themselves.....  The crankshaft and the camshaft seals are just mm different
in application (crank is larger), but enough to create a serious problem, and
including, the one you describe....   

 b) Composition isn't relevant.  The most relevant single factor, according 
 to Audi, is whether the seals were oiled at installation - there's even a 
 recall on this somewhere, and a TSB.
>>>>   Maybe that's a UK thing....  Haven't seen or heard of it here on this
list in 3 years or in my experience wrenching this pups....  Could it be what
you describe, I suppose....  I just think that you might have solved another
problem while yours was diagnosed....  Again >
  > The idle stabilation circuit (US) can compensate for a leaking valve
 > gasket, which has exponentially more surface area under the same vacuum as

 > the two seals you speak of...
>>>  Which indicates to me, that the valve cover would have much more, or at
least just as much effect than either seal on your performance, since it sits
in the exact same vaccuum cavity as the cam seal..   And that just doesn't
happen...  Did the R&R to replace the cam seal involve removing the cam cap,
or did they insert without valve cover removal?  

 Not on my car.  Clean driveway to prove it.
   >> Oil tends to creep down the front of the head, and just make things
wet, without a substantial dripping manifestation, dry driveway...  Valve
cover gaskets are the same, they can make a wet first inch of the head then
have enough heat to evaporate...  Thinking this thru phil, it certainly is
probable that an oil seal can suck air, but that is a major leak to affect
your engine perfomance....  No oil on the seal will burn a seal, but it
should burn both the front and the rear contact points, and oil comes out....
 Maybe not a lot but some....  Has anybody in qlist world had this problem
phil describes?  A copy of the TSB?  I'd hate to think that audi puts out a
TSB maybe to cover up the wrong Hans install of the seals...  Put the cam on
the crank, the crank on the cam, and blame it on the oil lip?  And the old
ones look the same, the new different...  Interesting, phil....  If this
indeed is valid, then inspection of the valve cover gasket is exponentially
more important in comparison to those seals....  This is the wackiest thing
I've heard to date, true or no

MMAV (my mileage always varies)