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Re: Sad but true, TQC < TQ

and interesting aside to this thread along with another recent one which
discussed the ur-q's inferior rear suspension design (being essentially
mcpherson struts with lower wishbones)...

i see that ford in it's update to the escort cossie to turn it from '96 group
a to '97 'world rally car' (ie to the new fia rally regulations) has modified
the rear suspension of carlos sainz's new car to be....

mcpherson struts with lower wishbones.

go figure.

'93 s2
'90 ur-q

..>From: "richard funnell" <richard_funnell@NGC.COM>
..>Date: Fri, 03 Jan 97 08:51:00 PST
..>     John,
..>     It sounds as if you may have proven that a very hard suspension (urQ) 
..>     isn't as well suited to the real world as a more stock suspension 
..>     (5KT).  You have modified the car which was likely set up stiffer in 
..>     the first place, and made fewer changes to the family car.  Bad 
..>     comparison.
..>     On a flat track, stiffer springs coupled with rock-hard Konis (set to 
..>     max hard you say) and larger (read heavier) tires will be great 
..>     because it keeps the car flat and responsive.  On a real road, 
..>     however, every item listed will reduce the compliance of the 
..>     suspension which reduces traction on rough surfaces.  It's a relative 
..>     thing, but your comment that the urQ is flatter but drifts too much 
..>     sure points that way for me.
..>     I'll admit I'm biased, owning an urQ, but frankly I didn't buy it to 
..>     race it and the incredible speed, stability and confidence the car 
..>     offers under all conditions suits me just fine. 
..>     Richard Funnell
..>     ================
..>     Sad but true, TQC < TQ
..>     Well, guys, the jury is in, at least for me.  As you might know, we own an
..>     '82 urq, a '87 5000CS TQW, and a '90 V8 Quattro.  Ever since we got 
..>     our tq wagon and upped the boost, I've wondered if it was faster and handled 
..>     better than my beloved urq.  To be brief, it is and does.  It's sad to say, 
..>     but the 5ktq is the hands down winner.
..>     My urq is very modified with ABT stage 3 computer, 2+ bar of boost, Eibach
..>     performance springs (NOT the lowering springs), Koni's set to full hard, and
..>     ferrodo street/track brake pads.  It has a new K26 turbo, manifold,  and head
..>     (yes, new head) with Schrick cam.  The cat is replaced with a straight pipe,
..>     and the exhaust is unrestrictive.  I have cloth seats and a 4 point harness.
..>     Broken in Sumitomo 225/45/16 on BBS light 3 piece wheels are under it.  It
..>     SHOULD kick the mostly stock 5ktq's butt.  It does not.
..>     The 5ktq has new Boge turbo gas front struts, 1.7 bar of boost with a urq
..>     wastegate spring, and Dunlop D60 A2 tires on the front a one Uniroyal and
..>     one Goodyear VR rated tires on the back.  These are on the stock 15x6 alloy
..>     wheels.  The 5ktq has new slag masters on the front.  Both have about the
..>     same mileage.
..>     I have to say, the urq FEELS faster, but on the very challenging mountain
..>     roads to our house, it is much slower when timed.  It also doesn't stop as
..>     quickly, so I couldn't go that deep into the turns.  The urq was 
..>     flatter in the turns (probably because it is lower), but it drifts a lot more 
..>     than the tq.
..>     I am very disappointed.  All I could think about was how I would trade this
..>     car in a minute for an S4, 5-speed V8, '90 200 wagon or '91 200 (yes I know
..>     the '91 is a 20v).  Unless I do an engine upgrade to the newer 10v or 20v
..>     and replace the antiquated fuel injection computer, I don't think this car
..>     is going to get any quicker.  An even if I did, the handling is the  best
..>     it's going to get.  I can solve the stopping problem by installing the dual
..>     piston calipers I have sitting in my garage, though.  And I resigned to
..>     definitely do that now before the track days start up again.
..>     Sorry to start this argument up again guys, but I though you might want to
..>     know.  BTW, the 5ktq is much quicker than the V8.  I think the V8's steering
..>     is too "vague"; obviously they were going for luxury here.
..>     I think I'll sell the urq and buy a high mileage 5ktq for a couple of grand
..>     and turn IT into a full time track car.
..>     Regards,
..>     John Karasaki
..>     Quattro Club (regional & national) member