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quattro-digest Saturday, 18 January 1997 Volume 04 : Number 116 * * Welcome to the digest version of the quattro list. * See the end of the digest for unsubscribe info. * In this issue: auto trans experience Re: Automatic Trans oil temp - 200Q Re: Automatic Trans Parts hunting RE: 97 A4Q Specifications Re: Setting a few "facts" straight Re: Windshield stuff, gas? German Language A3 and A4 Catalogs Re: oil temp - 200Q Re: Windshield stuff, gas? Windshield stuff, gas? FS: Alloy wheels & Nokia NRW Snow tires for Audi Re: oil temp - 200Q oil temp - 200Q Re: Cibie USA Re: More on tires for the A4q ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ron Angert" <rangert@ntas1.rdp.vt.edu> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:20:55 +0500 Subject: auto trans experience I would like to relate my experience with my '88 5K autotrans fluid swapping fix. This has been a real adventure. Old timers, Q obsessed, and "whats an automatic?" persons should hit delete now, but I wish I knew this stuff when I bought the car. At 93K miles I became the owner of this car. First trip to the mechanic, and experienced WV/Audi independant shop, he told me about this problem. ATF was brown and smelled bad - but not burnt. We changed both ATF and diff lube at that time and asked for opinions from the list. I got lots of advice, including several "do it before it costs you alot of money" posts from people who did pay a lot. So, I went to my friend the local independent autotrans shop and asked his opinion. He had two other similar cars there (a 5K and a 100) and told me he did a lot of them. He said upfront that sometimes there was a problem on Audis of this age and mileage with external leaks after getting the internal leaks fixed. He quoted me $250 labor and $50 seal kit IF there was nothing bad when they got inside. I went for it. It took three days and cost $450. He said everything looked great inside, that we had caught it before damage was done. He asked that I bring it back in a week to check for leaks. First highway trip of 70 miles resulted in big smell and smoke. Took it to him and be dropped and resealed it. This was repeated three time (total of 4 seal jobs) at no additional charge. Got to ride around with my wife alot for several weeks. Finally - no leaks! Drove it to Florida and back for Thanksgiving and it was great! 2000 miles and no small and no smoke. Day after I returned I was driving to work and sudden feeling of running over a cow - then bad smell of sulfer. Thought that the cat disintegrated and took it to mechanic. Bad news - diff bearings failed. Tow to transmission shop. He replaced three bearings and pinion (input) shaft. Got it back after Christmas. No charge! I couldn't beleive it. It now seems great. Bottom line - make sure that the shop you choose knows what they are doing and is willing to stand behind the work and associated damage they may cause. You should also note that they finally discovered thayt they had a box full of bad seal sets - all the audis they did in this time period had to be reworked. They found a new source of the seals - bought mine from the Audi dealer along with the bearings and shaft. BTW, we are still friends. If I had to do it over again, I'd change the fluids every 3K miles and never take it apart. YMMV Sorry for the long message - but it may help some others. ------------------------------ From: "Meron" <phwomp@cosmoslink.net> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 09:34:15 -0800 Subject: Re: Automatic Trans Does anybody knows where to get synthetic ATF (yes synthetic)? I hear that Castroll is about to come out with one but have not seen it in stores yet. My personal preference is (usually) to stay away from the exotic stuff, read Red Line, Amsoil etc. DON'T flame me!!!!!! The last sentence was not meant as criticism just my own personal preference. Loving all the list members (everyday more and more!) Avi Meron 86 5Kcstq with 16 PSI of boost 86 5Kcs auto my better half ride ------------------------------ From: quk@sievers.com (Phil Payne) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 17:27:16 GMT Subject: oil temp - 200Q In message <970118090201_1658001751@emout11.mail.aol.com> QSHIPQ@aol.com writes: > In other words, if you are adding a larger radiator or a larger oil > cooler, the thermostats should open at 100C.... Less is hardly better > here.... On most cars, the correct water thermostat starts to open at 87 Celcius and is so marked. It is fully open at 102 Celcius. Oil thermostats vary - some engines don't even have them. - -- Phil Payne phil@sievers.com Committee Member, UK Audi [ur-]quattro Owners Club ------------------------------ From: Dave Head <dhead@sundial.sundial.net> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:43:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Automatic Trans At 10:12 AM 1/18/97 -0500, you wrote: >I would seriously change the fluid in the Audi auto, even though they say >"lifetime"....ask how many people had to rebuild the Audi auto trannies - >there *are* quite a few that I have talked to who have done so (mostly v8's) >Plus, they are *very* expensive, not like the *relatively* cheap $ 900.00 >fully rebuilt R700 heavy-duty GM versions... > >I just had the dealer put in Redline MT-90 in my S4, at 50kmi, and after 3 >years - to me that's a *long* time! They almost refused to do it (I actually >had to insist), because they are really the best service shop I have ever >dealt with - Bernardsville Audi (NJ) But I explained that I had it done to >the CQ, and that it helped shifting - which it has done a bit better for both >cars.... Just finished talking to several mechanics wrt the tranny in my Grand Caravan - had to replace the solenoid pack to the tune of $250.00 parts/labor. They said most problems they see are the result of contaminated fluid (including my recent failure) with no color change to show a problem. Service the tranny every 12K miles and you'll never have to rebuild it - OR put in a synthetic ATF (big bucks @ $5.00 a qt) and never touch it fer 60K. When I replaced the 3 speed in my 79 5KS it cost me $400.00 - $275.00 fer the rebuilt tranny (standard old vee dub tranny), $125.00 fer the converter (as I remember). Three hours later the job was done - by myself w/no help, simple hand tools and a bottle jack. Of course this was after 3 used tranny replacements and a transaxle swap. I got verrry good at yanking them suckers out! Just about got ready to put in studs and wingnuts on the transaxle mounting bolts. It is possible (albeit difficult) to replace the trans W/O pulling the transaxle - but you have to know exactly what you're doing and have a little luck on yer side in seating that looong pump drive rod... Of interest was a recommendation heard for extreme cold climates - replace tranny/gear lube with 10W/40 or 20W/50 motor oil (especially synthetic). Don't forget to add the special limited slip lube where required fer proper clutch operation... ********************************AUDI FAN*********************************** EMCM(SW) Dave Head 87 5KCStq 185K miles and counting... 1.8 bar boost - Whee! Maitland, Florida ****************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: Dave Head <dhead@sundial.sundial.net> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:43:38 -0500 Subject: Parts hunting Out searching fer stuff today... Found Red 4KSQ, front crunch, drivetrain good. Bright blue 4KSQ, moderate rear crunch, tranny, rear diif there. 3 coupe GTs - one gold, 2 white. Several 84-86 5KS... Orlando... ********************************AUDI FAN*********************************** EMCM(SW) Dave Head 87 5KCStq 185K miles and counting... 1.8 bar boost - Whee! Maitland, Florida ****************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: Mark Blum <HobbesCT@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 13:46:26 -0500 Subject: RE: 97 A4Q Specifications Uh-oh, > Absolutely. You should be scared if your oil never gets > up to 220F! It needs to be at least that hot for prolonged > periods once in a while, to get rid of moisture. I might have a problem then. I have a 97 A4 and my gauge only gets up to about 200F (about the 1/4 mark) even on extended runs (~2 hours). My coolant gets up to a exactly a hair below the midpoint on the gauge, but my oil never gets past 200F-205F. Is this a problem? My first dealer service is still 5000 miles away. Should I worry about it before then? Mark Blum '97 A4 ------------------------------ From: "George S Achorn III" <coolidge@nicom.com> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 10:58:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Setting a few "facts" straight ScharfR@aol.com wrote: > One could even make the argument (and this _is_ pure conjecture) that Audi > did the Spyder as a developmental red herring to mislead other companies as > to its real intentions for an aluminum structured vehicle. The space frame > concept, which had been decided upon well before the Spyder's showing, was > extremely confidential at that time. Very few in the industry knew details > of the structure and its production methods, which have proven to be a > technical innovation that will take others some time to overcome. A million > bucks for a show car to 1) lead some competitors down the wrong path, 2) > capture public attention and 3) further "legitimize" the general concept of > aluminum cars? Sounds like strategic thinking; three birds, one stone (and > no production). > Good point you are probably right. What puzzles me though is why the Avus and the Spyder. It doesn't seem to make sense. Two cars are a little much for that theory I would think. Possibly not, and I know the Avus gets the Wow factor, where the Spyder looks realistic, but still, I thought the car was being considered. It's fairly well known that show cars are not close to production. The Avus is a perfect example, where others use alot of partsbin pieces, making likelihood of manufacture much better. Still your point on the frame style is very good at making the point of the unlikliness of a production Spyder. > As to your conjecture about power/weight/I5 engines etc., it's all moot. The > Spyder used the V6 architecture. The inline 5 wouldn't have fit. I never read anything about the Spyder as to engine layout. Keep in mind that in '94 all audi's being produced in the states (my experience) were capable of housing bothe I-5 anc V6 engines. The A4 is the first one not able to house the 5. For that reason I surmised that the 5 would fit. However in dreaming today, I could consider a 30V twin turbo 6, which'll probably have more power than the 20V turbo 5. Again, I was theorizing here, so I apologize for any technical mistakes. > > You may want to check your facts on TVR. Sure, they are smaller than > Porsche, but they _are_ privately held, growing, profitable, and producing > their own engines. As for companies borrowing engines and tuning them for > their own applications, well, do the numbers 356 and 924 sound familiar? Fine, using your facts TVR is where Porsche was sometime in the 70s or 80s. Today's Porsches are, IMO on a totally different technological level than TVR. TVR may build good cars, but while the Viper is a good car too, it is not a Porsche. There's a different drivability to the three, but the porsche is superior in engineering to the others, and Porsche is larger in sales quantity than TVR by a large margin are they not? Later-G ------------------------------ From: "Meron" <phwomp@cosmoslink.net> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:16:47 -0800 Subject: Re: Windshield stuff, gas? >and they now have 130/100 watt outers with stock inners. I don't have I have been reading continuously from all of you "high wattage fans" and do not yet understand this infatuation with high watt bulbs, the effectiveness of the light in much more connected to the >SHAPE< of the prism and it's >LOCATIO< than it is to high wattage, you are not improving the light (by much), you are mostly causing discomfort to other drivers on the road (using those ungodly powerful bulbs!!!!!), regardless of how well you lights are aimed!!!!!!!!!!! Why not just do a side by side comparison 55-60 versos 130-100 and maybe you will see that it is NOT much of an improvement!!!! Nomex on, flame me all you want!!!! (I am dead anyway, since I don't buy into this synthetic oil religion we have on the list!). Avi Meron 86 5Kcstq A walking dead man ------------------------------ From: Pete Kraus <Pete_Kraus@EMORY.ORG> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 14:19:36 -0500 Subject: German Language A3 and A4 Catalogs I have two spare German language Audi sales catalogs, one each A3 and A4. The A3 dates from June '96, the A4 from July '96. They each consist of a cover folder containing three separate brochures describing all aspects of the German model range - except prices. There is a fourth brochure listing prices, but neither folder has it. Nonetheless, they are pretty special and shouldn't disappoint anyone. Ideally, I'd like to swap with an enthusiast who has catalogs of equal interest, be they Audi or some other brand. Failing that, I'll send them to someone who sincerely wants them. Please contact me directly. Pete Pete_Kraus@emory.org Stone Mountain, GA '85 4KSQ '89 Ford F250 4x4 diesel '95 Z28 ------------------------------ From: "Meron" <phwomp@cosmoslink.net> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:40:52 -0800 Subject: Re: oil temp - 200Q >the correct water thermostat starts to open at 87 Celcius and is >so marked. It is fully open at 102 Celcius. Then above only means that the cooling system is fully circulating the coolant at 102C, the system can still run temp. in excess of 108C. If you have a "too big radiator " your system will NEVER reach the factory designed operating temperature which can be in excess of 108C you will be running "too cold". The thermostat main function is to keep your engine at a "minimum" of operating temperature the rest of the system (and ambient surrounding) determine the high end of the operating temperature. Avi Meron 86 5Kcstq ------------------------------ From: STEADIRIC@aol.com Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 14:39:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Windshield stuff, gas? >>and they now have 130/100 watt outers with stock inners. I don't have >I have been reading continuously from all of you "high wattage fans" and do >not yet understand this infatuation with high watt bulbs, the effectiveness >of the light in much more connected to the >SHAPE< of the prism and it's >>LOCATIO< than it is to high wattage, you are not improving the light (by >much), you are mostly causing discomfort to other drivers on the road >(using those ungodly powerful bulbs!!!!!), regardless of how well you >lights are aimed!!!!!!!!!!! >Why not just do a side by side comparison 55-60 versos 130-100 and maybe >you will see that it is NOT much of an improvement!!!! >Nomex on, flame me all you want!!!! (I am dead anyway, since I don't buy >into this synthetic oil religion we have on the list!). Well that would ONLY Apply if you were using STOCK US lights. Those of use with the Hi Watt lights are using Euro's, and Yes I have done a side by side Controlled camparo and the when you Upgrade the Euro's 55/60 H4's to 90/130 H4's are almost TWICE as bright and just as well controlled. This test was done using Grey Scale Targets and my VERY Expensive Light Meters that I use everyday in my work........ As it is no driver on the road has YET to flash or complain about my lights..... Later! Eric Fletcher S.O.C. '87 5KCSTQIA2RSR2B St. Louis, MO STEADIRIC@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Phil@sievers.com (Phil Payne) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 19:20:43 GMT Subject: Windshield stuff, gas? In message <199701182015.MAA21184@cosmoslink.net> "Meron" writes: >>and they now have 130/100 watt outers with stock inners. I don't have > I have been reading continuously from all of you "high wattage fans" and do > not yet understand this infatuation with high watt bulbs, the effectiveness > of the light in much more connected to the >SHAPE< of the prism and it's > >LOCATIO< than it is to high wattage, you are not improving the light (by > much), you are mostly causing discomfort to other drivers on the road > (using those ungodly powerful bulbs!!!!!), regardless of how well you > lights are aimed!!!!!!!!!!! Yes and no. We're not talking about "no expense, effort and appearance spared" rallying or racing systems. If you're into forest roads and closed circuits and you don't care what the car looks like - I absolutely agree with you. You never see rally cars fitted with high power bulbs in stock lights. However - under the compromise that I'm working under - fitting high wattage bulbs to clean and well-adjusted lights is a useful improvement. I will comment that I don't think we are talking about the same thing when we discuss "Euros". Descriptions such as "left side will fit in right" and "the beam shapes are the same left and right" do _NOT_ tally with the lights fitted to my car. > Why not just do a side by side comparison 55-60 versos 130-100 and maybe > you will see that it is NOT much of an improvement!!!! We have. We did a side-by-side comparison between John Coughtrie's car fitted with stock bulbs and mine fitted with the extra harness and 170/100s. A dozen members of the UK Club witnessed and commented on the comparison. We drove around the (pitch black) country lanes near the Area "E" meeting, and parked up side by side in the (also pitch black) field behind the pub. I've already posted that we did this - the photographs were not much good for comparison purposes, but if it's simply a question of you not believing that I got out of my chair then I will cheerfully snailmail you a photograph of our cars sitting side by side with their engines running and noticably brighter lights on one vehicle. Send me an address - I'll drop it in the mail tomorrow. Believe me - we've done all this. I drove for 60+ miles two weeks ago with a set of of modified lights (130/100) in my rear view mirror - no problem at all. It's a _staggering_ improvement. This is no armchair theory, I assure you. As for blinding oncoming motorists - I can also assure you that other motorists in the UK are not slow to let you know if your lights are too bright! They don't - I haven't been flashed for months. I just can't understand everyone telling me it's not an improvement, when well over two dozen urq drivers have now seen the results with their own eyes and the approval is unanimous! - -- Phil Payne (phil@sievers.com, despite what the bounces say. If I don't reply, your message is probably still stuck on a Demon punt.) Phone: +44 385302803 Fax: +44 1536723021 CIS: 100012,1660 ------------------------------ From: Dave Wright <davewrit@execpc.com> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 13:52:11 -0600 Subject: FS: Alloy wheels & Nokia NRW Snow tires for Audi I have four of the flat alloy (15") wheels for 4 bolt Audi (5000, 80, 90, 80Q & 90Q, NOT Turbo models) with Nokia NRW snow tires. $250 plus shipping obo. Located in the Milwaukee, WI area. _______________________________________________________ Dave Wright davewrit@execpc.com Texo Chemical Co. - The Specialty Chemical Professionals Mequon, WI '71 Trojan '37 Tri-Cabin '73 Norton 750 Commando USNOA# 9606 '75 Suzuki GT380 (for sale) '76 Yamaha RD400 '79 BMW R100 BMWOA# 73724 '91 Audi 90 Quattro 20v (Sold, 12/20/96 - but *never* forgotten!) '97 Audi A4 Q enroute! Various others! ------------------------------ From: QSHIPQ@aol.com Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 15:03:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: oil temp - 200Q In a message dated 97-01-18 13:18:21 EST, you write: << On most cars, the correct water thermostat starts to open at 87 Celcius and is so marked. It is fully open at 102 Celcius. Oil thermostats vary - some engines don't even have them. >> Oil temp - 200 q the post. Most q's do have those.... Regarding thermostats, you might be careful on the generic post of those, phil, audis have one oil thermo listed @100C, but a myriad of combinations of water thermos and fan switch thermos.... Best to stick with stock application for your car... Without the boring details, there are more than just obvious reasons for it.... BTW, if anyone needs the part numbers for these audi thermo matricies, I do have them. Scott ------------------------------ From: Phil@sievers.com (Phil Payne) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 19:55:33 GMT Subject: oil temp - 200Q In message <199701182039.MAA21315@cosmoslink.net> "Meron" writes: >> the correct water thermostat starts to open at 87 Celcius and is >> so marked. It is fully open at 102 Celcius. > Then above only means that the cooling system is fully circulating the > coolant at 102C, the system can still run temp. in excess of 108C. And? I was merely pointing out that there is no such thing as a "100c thermostat". I made no comment on how the system works or what temperatures it can reach - I was merely concerned that no one ran out and pestered their dealer for something that doesn't exist. - -- Phil Payne (phil@sievers.com, despite what the bounces say. If I don't reply, your message is probably still stuck on a Demon punt.) Phone: +44 385302803 Fax: +44 1536723021 CIS: 100012,1660 ------------------------------ From: QSHIPQ@aol.com Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 15:26:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Cibie USA In a message dated 97-01-18 12:58:26 EST, you write: << >So do we have a source yet for Cibie 5 1/4" reflectors? Please please >please.... >>>>> That's 5 3/4 btw.... Eric Writes: Cibie is no longer in the US or Canada they were bought out by Wagner products. Later! >> Eric is mostly right... I have the cibie catalog in my hand from a vendor (1 of 2 found) that stocks and represents them right here in the US. Yes they are available here without the Demon Tweeks importing. A quick look in your last AW magazine can get you the number of one. He carries both Hella and Cibie, and I found him to be most helpful. Eric is referring, I believe, to the Cibie Corporate and dealer network that once flourished here. He is correct that no longer exists. But, remember, the replacement bulbs can be purchased at many auto parts sources. HTH Scott ------------------------------ From: dan_masi@MENTORG.COM (Dan Masi) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 97 15:35:17 EST Subject: Re: More on tires for the A4q On Jan 17, 5:33pm, Ron Williams wrote: > My next step is to add 3 or 4 lbs. of air to my A4's RSAs and see > what happens. I noticed that some of you running D60 A2s run them > with more air than normal. Has anyone tried more air in their > RSAs? What's up? Yeah... I ran mine with 51psi for awhile, by mistake (the dealer forgot to bring the shipping pressures back down when they delivered the car to me)! Lost a few fillings, that's all. :-) I run them at 36, which seems about right to me. They're a respectable tire. Not the best all-around, but not awful. Given their price, if I were buying a new set of 4, these wouldn't even be a consideration. But they're fine as OEM tires, IMO. Just a bit squirmy if you push 'em too hard, but that's not something I do in everyday driving. Dan Masi '96 A4Q ------------------------------ End of quattro-digest V4 #116 ***************************** * * To unsubscribe, mail to majordomo@coimbra.ans.net and in the body of * your note, say: * unsubscribe quattro-digest * Questions, comments to quattro-owner@coimbra.ans.net
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