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quattro-digest Sunday, 26 January 1997 Volume 04 : Number 162
* Welcome to the digest version of the quattro list.
* See the end of the digest for unsubscribe info.
* In this issue:
Re: Catalytic converter - '88 90q
Re: Bentley Manual
Re: Light bulbs
removal of air bag for horn
Re: Butane lighters unite
Re: 86 CD Turbo with Auto
The 3 Current HID players
Re: Corroded Wheels!??
Neat Audis in Switzerland
A4 1.8T vs Neon?
S4 Chip and Suspension Upgrades
Re: A4 1.8T vs Neon?
Part 3: Audi '86 "Commemorative Design" Series (long)
Re: Light research (silliness)
Re: A4 1.8T vs Neon?
Windshield Leaks Water
Re: removal of air bag for horn
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 02:12:35 -0800
Subject: Re: Catalytic converter - '88 90q
Steve Manning wrote:
> Anyone have an opinion on the best place to get a new cat? The choices I've
> looked at so far are:
> o Dealer - get raped on price (~$700), but you know what you're getting.
> o Audi third parties (I've talked to GPR, Blau, etc.) - much cheaper
> (~$200-300), but all no-name brands, unknown quality.
> o VW - I tried my VW connections (Techtonics, RPI, etc.) since they sell
> their own high-flow stuff & I thought they might cross-over to Audi, but
> no..only to the 4 cylinder cars.
> o Others - cheapo places (JC Whitney, local sources) prices are very low
> (some around ~$100 for a generic) but an even bigger crap shoot in terms of
> Anyone had experience w/this? I'd like one that flows well and will last a
> long time (like the original), but don't want to pay the dealer....TIA......SLM
In 1992 I installed a generic (USA made) cat in my '85 5000s. It was
$125 from a local vendor named National Autostore. Works well up to this
When the cat goes on my current '89 200, I'll see that it gets the
cheapest generic one.
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 02:20:35 -0800
Subject: Re: Bentley Manual
Jonathan Monetti wrote:
> I wanted to ask--I bought the Bentley Manual, and incomparing it to the RB for my old
> 85 Scirocco, found the Audi manual *much* more cryptic. The VW RB has all info I
> could need, but is writtin in plain english and laid out clearly. The Audi manual,
> Does anyone know of a more concise manual for troubleshooting purposes?
I am afraid there is none. Hayens is mediocre at best, Chilton simply
The Bentley for my 200 is a 3 volume set, with the whole of 3rd volume
being just the electrical schematic!
It is indeed rather complex.
OTOH, the Bentley for my wife's Fox is just 1 volume, and it is very
I guess it has something to do with an enormous complexity of a 200TQ
and a downright simplicity of the Fox.
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 02:00:55 -0800
Subject: Re: Light bulbs
Psychotic Don't-you-dare-tickle-me Elmo wrote:
> >Competition Unlimited
> >I got several replies telling me these can also be had at J.C. Whitney,
> >auto parts chains, etc but I am not sure if these listers were referring to
> >H3's/H1's (common type), or to specific bulbs replacing stock headlight
> >bulbs which CU specializes in.
> Indeed -- I've bought those light bulbs from both places. As far as I can
> tell, they both sell the same thing -- no name, made in Korea light bulbs.
> You can get the best price by wating for JCW to have those light bulbs go
> on sale -- and then use those 10% (or 15%) additional off in some
> catalogs. On the other hand, JCW does not have a burn-out replacement
> thing like you mentioned below...
On the contrary, they always did it for me. I buy my halogens
exclusevely from JCW. They work just as well as the ones bought from any
other source, only they are 2-3 times cheaper.
From: Joseph Logan <email@example.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 02:49:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: removal of air bag for horn
I just purchased a 1990 90cq20v, and it is a late model equipped with the
air bag. I noticed that only one of the horn buttons is working. I had
the same problem with an older Audi and all I had to do was pull the
cover off the steering wheel, but that model didn't have an airbag.
I am wondering if it is a good or bad idea for me to try to pull off the
cover where the airbag is so that I can fix the horn buttons. If anyone
knows about doing this, please tell me if it is a bad idea or not. Thank
you very much.
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 03:01:45 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Butane lighters unite
>Eric, you work with a Steadicam? Sinema Products is my customer. My
>toroidal 0728-1010 tilt sensor makes the Steadicam such a steady camera.
>Hmm, such a small world...
Actually that sensor only provide's the signal for the level dispaly on
the monitor and has nothing to do with the Steadyness (It's all physics
nothing mechanical). I have my on screen level turned off because it's
Way too annoying (I also use a PRO sled which has been extensivly rebuilt
with carbon fiber, which is not built by Cinema Product's so it does not
use your sensor.). Few of the really good operators use it. I will say
though since they went to the new sensor it's MUCH better. You should
check out the Cinema Product's ad's, One of them "Stars" your sensor.
Eric Fletcher S.O.C.
St. Louis, MO
From: Leah Mueller <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 05:54:01 -0600
Subject: Re: 86 CD Turbo with Auto
First of all thanks to Igor and Dale for constant viligence and help on the
list. I am looking at an 86 5000 CD Turbo with a 3 speed auto. The car has
about 130,000 Kilometres. There is leak down the front part of the engine
which the owner says is the power steering pump. There appears to be some
wet stuff farther back as well just right of the engine when you are facing
the car (slightly towards the drivers side). Is this tranny or steering
rack? The owner has apparently had it serviced regularly but has lived with
the leak due to high cost of quote to fix. The tranny oil is a light tan
with just a hint of reddish color. Is this OK? The owner has been adding
Castrol power steering fluid to resovoir. Is this the right stuff for the
Audi system? Something tells me that he hasn't been adding the proper
fluid. Thanks all for any suggestions. Oh yes, the button for the cruise
control is broken, is this a hard / expensive fix as well?
David in cold Canada
86 CD 5spd Turbo
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 08:48:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: The 3 Current HID players
I have now found 3 players in the HID (High Intensity Discharge) aftermarket
lighting, facts here only:
* HELLA HID (HID XSM) - Rallye 4000
Retail Price: 1400USD
Claimed Lumens Per Watt - Halogen (lmw) = 25 lmw
Claimed Lumens Per Watt - XSM = 62.5
XSM vs Halogen lmw = 2.5:1
XSM watt bulb = 35w
Equivalent Halogen Wattage = 87.5w
STATUS: Not currently available through dealer channels
* KC HighLights (HID XSM) - 35w and 50w HID HiLights
Retail Price: 35w = 1479USD 50w = 1645USD
Claimed Lumens Per Watt - Halogen (lmw) = 26 lmw
Claimed Lumens Per Watt - XSM = 100
XSM vs Halogen lmw = 3.85:1
XSM watt bulb = 35w, 50w
Equivalent Halogen Wattage = 134, 192
STATUS: Stock Available as of 9-86
* Osram 'Xenarc' (HID XSM) - 35w HID 'Xenarc' Light
Retail Price: N/A
Claimed Lumens Per Watt - Halogen (lmw) = 25 lmw
Claimed Lumens Per Watt - XSM = 91 lmw
XSM vs Halogen lmw = 3.64:1
XSM watt bulb = 35w
Equivalent Halogen Wattage = 127.4
STATUS: Not currently available through dealer channels
* All data is Manufacturers Claims
* All Manufacturers claim 2000 hour XSM bulb life (normal usage)
* All Manufacturers claim 4-5000 hour XSM bulb life (continuous)
* All lights are "dedicated" lighting systems, no "upgrades" are currently
available or planned
* All lights use "Free Form" (reflection) technology, light controlled at
* All manufacturers claim "shock-proof" bulbs (no filament), race component
failure frequency (off road/road combined): 1) damage 2) electronics 3) bulb
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 08:53:31 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Corroded Wheels!??
In a message dated 97-01-24 09:45:01 EST, you write:
I was gone for 11 days, and upon my return I found that my tires where
rather low on air. I took the Q out, and filled up the low tires. The next
the RF was flat and the RR was 1/2 way there. I pumped up the tires and
the car to where I purchased the tires.
The monkey-lads working the counter took my car in and checked out the
tires. When I picked it up, they said that they removed the tires from the
wheels and discovered that "corrosion" was causing the beads to not seal
properly. I said.. "huh"? He said that my wheels were old, paint peeling,
and that there was some corrosion inside the wheel that was preventing
sealing. He said he cleaned things up a bit, then remounted the tires using
bead-sealer stuff. He said that if they started to deflate again, I might
to have the wheels professionally serviced.
89 200q (150K miles)
He's totally correct. I've got an 89 200QW - alloy wheels. The tires were
replaced four years ago. They held air perfectly up to last year. Then both
rears started leaking caused by corrosion on the rims. Only cure is to sand
off the corrosion and then maybe use a sealer between the rim and tire.
Isn't it nice to live in the salt belt?
From: Dan Simoes <email@example.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 09:00:26 -0500 (EST)
Subject: mike spiers
Emailed me that his hard drive is dead, so he'll be off the
net for a while, so if you were expecting mail from him,
Dan Simoes firstname.lastname@example.org
100 Clearbrook Road (914) 789-5378 (voice)
Elmsford, NY 10523 (914) 789-5310 (fax)
From: Crossley Family <crossley@Northwest.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 06:07:38 -0800
Subject: Neat Audis in Switzerland
Just back from quick business/pleasure trip to Switzerland and would like
to let you know of some observed Audis that we will probably never see over
1) An S6 with a "4.2" insignia on the hatch cover. This car was an
automatic (non Tiptronic type), had immense alloys and some of the biggest
brakes that I have seen on a street car.
2) Several A4 Avants. These are really nice looking units. Perhaps AoA
might consider bringing this model to the US.?
3) A3s. These are much better looking cars in real life than what is
portrayed in the pictures that I have seen.
It is a treat to see these and other desirable cars that we never see over
here just running around. My wife, who prefers the Zurich jewelry shops to
cruisin' parking lots, thinks I am a sick person when comes to Audis.
She's right of course, but it is cheap entertainment compared to the
potential damage that can be incurred at those "cute" shops.
'91 200q, IA Stage 3, looking for UFO brake replacement (c'mon Eric!!)
National and NW Quatto Club member
From: JP <email@example.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 08:53:36 -0600
Subject: A4 1.8T vs Neon?
"Gene R. Rankin" <firstname.lastname@example.org> says:
>Just saw the Car & Drivel brief review of the A4 1.8T, and was shocked to
>see that it has a mere 150 hp - precisely as much as a <gag> Neon, which
>is probably lighter, to boot. What possesses Audi to send us such
>wimpmobiles? Now, 300 hp, THAT would be a power to weight ratio to
>conjure with (still inferior to the Europe-only RS2)!
If you had read on: "...pulls like a Dodge and a half..."
Before the 1.8 was available in the states, I was considering a Neon
sedan. They are light, tossable, and fun. Now Im planning on paying
twice as much as the Neon for the same horses?
No, Im paying for a far better car! Compare my 88 5000 to ANYTHING
Chrysler made in 88. I know Chrysler has come a very long way in
reliability, but so has Audi. In 10 years, which car will still be tight
As far as what posessed Audi to bring the 150 whimpmobile to the US?
Entry level models to compete with the bmw 318 (134hp????? What was bmw
I would also hope that Audi knows its loyal turbo quattro fans would has
revolted had there been a model year without a turbo quattro!
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 10:03:54 -0500 (EST)
Subject: S4 Chip and Suspension Upgrades
I've been looking into the available chip and suspension upgrades for some
time now and thought I'd look for some more background info. The car in
question is a '92 S4, stock except for the K&N. It is a carefully maintained
daily driver, I'll do 1-3 Q-Club events/year and engine protection is a
As a side note, it doesn't have the front strut brace, so that is an early
priority. Does anyone have experience putting a strut brace in the earliest
Since I've been thinking about this since I bought an 89 200 TQ and now the
S4, I've heard a variety of opinions, mostly picked up at Quattro Club
I've been advised to consider Ned's upgrades for the older 10V engines but
avoid them for the 20V units, use TAP instead because Ned was overpriced and
hadn't kept up with the advances in the 20V.
>From what I've personally seen, Ned is very knowledgeable and willing to
help, demo units, let you drive his car and the like at the Q-club events.
TAP I know nothing about other than what I've heard from one distributor.
Phone conversations with Schaumburg have been the most useful in terms of
knowledge and helpfulness.
TIA - Bill Fuson
From: email@example.com (Jeff Wasilko)
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 13:01:54 -0500
Subject: Re: A4 1.8T vs Neon?
> "Gene R. Rankin" <firstname.lastname@example.org> says:
> >Just saw the Car & Drivel brief review of the A4 1.8T, and was shocked to
> >see that it has a mere 150 hp - precisely as much as a <gag> Neon, which
> >is probably lighter, to boot. What possesses Audi to send us such
> >wimpmobiles? Now, 300 hp, THAT would be a power to weight ratio to
> >conjure with (still inferior to the Europe-only RS2)!
> If you had read on: "...pulls like a Dodge and a half..."
> Before the 1.8 was available in the states, I was considering a Neon
> sedan. They are light, tossable, and fun. Now Im planning on paying
> twice as much as the Neon for the same horses?
> As far as what posessed Audi to bring the 150 whimpmobile to the US?
> Entry level models to compete with the bmw 318 (134hp????? What was bmw
The 1.8T compares well to the 2.8 in terms of 0-60 performance,
etc. For me, saving $5k and getting a car that's a tad slower is
worth it. After all, most of the US still has speed limits at 65
MPH or less.
Do you think you could get an A4 with 300 hp for $23k? No such
thing as a free lunch.
Jeff (A4 1.8Tq on order)
From: Jim & Bev <email@example.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 13:06:52 -0800
Subject: Part 3: Audi '86 "Commemorative Design" Series (long)
Part 3: The Commemorative Design 4000CS Sedan
On April 30, 1986
I received an art print of the 1986 Commemorative Design 5000CS Sedan.
I guess I was on
their mailing list, since we bought a new 1985 5000S the year before.
I've got the print
framed and it hung for many years in my office, now its at home. If I
had test driven a
new Audi, I would have received 3 additional art prints of the other
cars in the
Commemorative series. Here's the schedule of the installments that make
brochure describing the 1986 Commemorative Design:
Day 1 "A Celebration in Engineering and Innovation"
Day 2 The Commemorative Design 5000CS Sedan
Day 3 The Commemorative Design 4000CS Sedan <=Today's
Day 4 The Commemorative Design 4000CS Quattro
Day 5 The Commemorative Design Coupe GT
The Commemorative Design 4000CS Sedan
To many people, the 1986 Audi 4000 Series sedan is the very model of a
modern European sports sedan. And why not? It is merely the latest in
a long, evolutionary line of Audis that clearly established the
performance parameters for a whole class of automobiles.
So, like the 4000 sedans before it and the best imitators struggling to
keep up with it, this year's 4000 offers front-wheel drive, a responsive
fuel-injected four-cyclinder engine, excellent road manners, superb
ergonomics and refined body design.
Unlike other 1986 4000 Series sedans, the Commemorative Design 4000CS
offers even more. Amenities like a luxuriously upholstered and
sport interior. A power sunroof, AM/FM cassette radio and more. Plus
distinctive exterior highlights such as aero wheels and a choice of rich
All are designed to add unlimited appeal and outstanding value to an
automobile already blessed with the other virtues.
The 4000CS sedan's full complement of Commemorative Design Series
*Aerodynamic alloy wheels
*Alcantara suede-like upholstery with leather bolstering in Sierra
plus Sierra Beige leatherette door panel inserts
*AM/FM cassette radio, electronically tuned
*Choice of standard manual transmission or available automatic
*Front sport seats
*Instrument panel, carpeting and trim in Graphite
*Leather-wrapped steering wheel
*Plush, logo-embroidered, carpet floor mats
*Tilt/Slide power sunroof
The following Audi 4000S standard features are also included:
power-assisted rack-and-pinion steering, power vented disc/drum brakes,
power windows, door locks and mirrors, cruise control, full
instrumentation, 36-month/50,000-mile limited warranty and six-year
limited warranty against
Tomorrow, The Commemorative Design 4000 CS Quattro!
From: Luis Marques <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 12:38:59 -0600
Subject: Re: Light research (silliness)
> From: email@example.com (Michael Shields)
> So what voltage are headlight bulbs designed to run at?
All the replacement light bulbs I have ever seen say
"12 Volts, XX Watts".
From: John Eickerman <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 10:45:54 -0800
Subject: Re: A4 1.8T vs Neon?
At 1:01 PM -0500 1/26/97, Jeff Wasilko wrote:
>The 1.8T compares well to the 2.8 in terms of 0-60 performance,
>etc. For me, saving $5k and getting a car that's a tad slower is
>worth it. After all, most of the US still has speed limits at 65
>MPH or less.
>Do you think you could get an A4 with 300 hp for $23k? No such
>thing as a free lunch.
You also have the potential to upgrade the A4 1.8T to more horsepower for
not a whole lot of money, maybe the difference in cost between the 1.8 and
2.8. And you lose the wood trim and leather seats, another bonus! Now,
should I buy a A4 sedan or avant?
um...what are speed limits?
>Jeff (A4 1.8Tq on order)
John Eickerman - email@example.com
1987 Audi 4000CSquattro
From: firstname.lastname@example.org (Steve Gronback)
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 14:01:56 -0500
Subject: Windshield Leaks Water
In response to a comment about the '91 200q leaking water from the
windshield, a good friend suggested this approach to isolating the
a. attach shop vac hose to slightly vented window
b. seal opening with duct tape
c. seal rest of car, including vents
d. attach hose to vac to blow OUT
e. pour mild solution of dish detergent and water (50/50?) around
suspect area, similar to what you do to check gas leaks when you
change tanks on your outdoor grill
You should generate enough pressure to blow bubbles around leaks.
If you inadvertently blow dirt and sawdust all over your interior, reverse
91 Audi 200q
Look KG 96 Team Replica
From: email@example.com (Doug Miller)
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 11:27:48 -0800
Subject: Re: removal of air bag for horn
>I just purchased a 1990 90cq20v, and it is a late model equipped with the
>air bag. I noticed that only one of the horn buttons is working. I had
>the same problem with an older Audi and all I had to do was pull the
>cover off the steering wheel, but that model didn't have an airbag.
>I am wondering if it is a good or bad idea for me to try to pull off the
>cover where the airbag is so that I can fix the horn buttons. If anyone
>knows about doing this, please tell me if it is a bad idea or not. Thank
>you very much.
IMHO, it is *not* a good idea to remove the airbag for repair of one of two
horn buttons. It's a lot trickier than you might think. I'd suggest you
try spraying TV tuner cleaner, or some other contact cleaner in the gap
between the steering wheel assembly (rotating part) and the steering column
(stationary part). The switch works via a metal contact that slides
around a collar as you turn the wheel to maintain contact. It may be that
each button has its own metal contact, and just one is gunked up a little.
To test this, try pressing the non functional horn button in and rotating
the steering wheel back and forth in full revolutions. If the horn sounds
at all, you're in luck and this could be an easy fix with tuner cleaner.
If you decide to live on the edge, be advised that Audi air bags have a
built in back up power supply in the form of a large capacitor. This is to
ensure the bag deploys normally in the event of a crash so catastrophic the
power is cut during the impact. Wait awhile *after* you disconnect the
battery to ensure the bag does not have residual power - an hour would be
on the safe side.
The usual disclaimers apply.....
97A6Q Wagon, 93 LandCruiser w/diff locks (and well used skidplates), 71
LeMans Sport V8 Convertible. Cannondale Super V 900 Comp.
End of quattro-digest V4 #162
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