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Re: Quattro 4000 Mods list

In a message dated 97-04-24 23:50:43 EDT, you write:

<< Stock, my car makes 121hp.  This should bump it up to 170 or so with no
 loss in drivability.  A better-than-new Audi 4kqcs for less than the price
 of an '88 bimmer 3-series in as-is condition (what I was thinking of first)
 As suggested by some in this list, we talked about putting in a 5000
 engine.  It can be done, but it's a little tricky, and you lose the a/c
 unless you get really creative.  Price would be around 3x what it's costing
 me for this job, and stock 5000 turbo power isn't enough higher than 170 to
 justify it.
 Side note: I was wondering how the hell most people measure power on a full
 time 4wd system???  I've never seen a four wheel chassis dyno -- they must
 be relatively rare and pretty expensive, as they'd have to be adjustable
 for wheelbase.  Or is there some trick to it?
 Just thought you guys might be interested in what I'm doing here, or have
 some suggestions for me.
 --Pete, trembling with anticipation

Ummm, is it just me or is this starting to sound like a Never Never land car?
 170 hp out of a compression bump and exhaust?  First of all, it's not
recomemdable to do a big compression bump, because you'll have to run 104
octane.  My friend was going to do this and a cam on his VW, but Autotech
informed us.  (No they didn't do this to get him to buy their stuff, he was
going to get their cam in the first place.)  I would estimate that you will
be hitting 130 hp if you are lucky.  Stock is 115, not 121.  Next, a
5000Turbo conversion would cost just as much as all the stuff you ARE doing.
 A nice turbo motor is way under a grand.  That would unleash 165 stock hp on
you, with much easier upgrades (and much less stess on the engine...)  Third,
are you seriously going to replace every worn and broken part?  In my
estimation, that would probably include all the bushings, exhaust, lifters,
wheel bearings, driveshafts, brakes and pads....the list goes on.  This would
put you WAY over your 7,500 estimate.  The head work alone would proabably
run you a good 1500 to 2000, the exhaust will be close to 1,000, the car is
probably 2500 to 3000.  That's already 5-6000 $ without touching a broken or
worn part on the car.   And lastly, to dyno a 4000/Ur or 5000 quattro, it is
necessary to disconnect the center driveshaft and lock the differential.
 Plus dyno costs (around here, 75 base run, or 99 per an hour if you want to
fool around.)

For all the stuff you are doing, you are getting precariously close to the
price of an 1988 M3 or tricked 325, which will thoughly whip a 4000 around a
track and off the line (as well as top speed, I'm sure)  Are you that much of
an Audi fan?  (I am!!!!!)  Also, you are extremely close to the price of a
good 944/924S, which would do about the same as the M3.  Actually, there is a
nice 87 924S for sale near me for 5500.  My dad owns one, so I can tell you
that the car is extremely good handeling and pretty quick (for 140hp)  I'm
not trying to shy you away, but realistically what are you looking at doing?
 Track?  Street?  Show?  

86 4000CS quattro (Just got the leather, thanks Huw!)
86 Coupe GT (FS, cheap!)
86 GTI