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RE: Starter diagnosis ?'s (long reply)

Okay, my problem might not have been the same as yours, but I sure did a
lot of poking around before I figured out that the main current starter
wire was broken, so I might be able to offer some insight. Here's how to
figure out what might be wrong with the starter...
	First of all, the best power source you can have for this is a
car battery with a set of jumper cables. You will also need a small wire
(20 gauge worked for me) about 6 inches long, and stripped at both ends.
	Second, if you have a vise, clamp the starter _tightly_ by one
of the bits of metal sticking out, so that the driving gear is facing
you. So long as you do not put your fingers in there, and the starter is
immobilized, you should not need to worry about chopping or mangling
them. If you do not have a vise, you may do as I did. Stand on the
thing. It won't try to run away on you. 
	Third, I assume that yours is similar to mine (4ksq) and that
the housing will serve as ground. Connect the negative jumper cable to
the housing. ( you have connected them to the battery, haven't you?)
Then connect the positive to the largest bolt/wire connection on the
solenoid. Make sure that it won't touch the case, even if it is bumped a
little, or some sparks will fly. Now you're ready to test the starter's
	Four, touch the small wire's ends to the positive jumper cable
clamp and the small wire connection bolt (or clip) on the solenoid
housing simultaneously. Do this only for the amount of time necessary to
see what happens

	The solenoid should drive the starting gear to the starting
position, and then the starter motor should spin it. If this doesn't
happen exactly this way, something is not working correctly...
If nothing happens, and you are sure all of your connections are right,
and your battery is charged, it is possible that your solenoid is
broken. These are generally very cheap, and available separate from the
starter motor. (and I'm too lazy to fool around with it) I even have an
extra one laying around that I bought before I found out it wasn't the
problem, so you may have it if you pay shipping. ($5) 
If the solenoid engages, but the starter motor doesn't spin, you have
two possibilities: a) your solenoid is still bad, and b)your starter
motor has a bad connection somewhere. You can find the answer to this
very simply: remove the positive jumper cable clamp from the starter
motor connection, and touch it to the large braided wire going between
the solenoid and starter motor. (do you have one of these braided
wires?) The starter motor should spin up, even if the solenoid is not
engaged, and you will now know where the fault resides. If it does spin
up, it is definitely the solenoid, or the connection of the braided wire
within it. If it does not, you have a bad connection in the starter
motor. Since I have not disassembled the starter motor either, I will
not be able to help you with this either, although I'm sure someone on
the list already has. These starter motors are very expensive for my
car, although I must admit that I did not use the list as a resource to
find one. I used napa, who took it back after I found that it wasn't the
problem. Good luck! HTH.
Dustin Sysko
Boulder, CO
85 4ksq

	-----Original Message-----
	From:	Osman Parvez [SMTP:oparvez1@Nycap.rr.com]
	Sent:	Wednesday, January 07, 1998 6:46 PM
	To:	quattro
	Subject:	Starter diagnosis ?'s

	Okay folks the Q is back on the road.. sorta. This message is on
	determining what exactly caused the starter to fail, if in fact
it is bad.
	I've got a box with a starter inside, sitting in the back seat
of my Q. I'm
	slightly better than average when it comes to mechanical
inclination, but
	when it comes to cars I consider myself in training. 

	How about a bench diagnostic procedure requiring common (or
	cheap) tools? The way I figure is that I simply hook up the
starter to a
	12v DC current and let her go.. but his seems like a good way to
	lose fingers or blow some fuses in the shop. How should I go
about it? 

	For those whom respond, the next earliest time I can work on
this is next
	week, so give me bit to get back to you. I will. Thanks alot!! 

	Osman Parvez
	Albany, NY
	89 200q, TAP Chip, 170K