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Re: Cool aids
Well. I will say that my summer wheels are indeed my winter wheels as well. Tires
too in fact. I have never found a good reason to use snows on my Torsen car or Gen
I cars. This is in Cleveland where we get up to 3 ft per day during the worst of
winter. Also, Torsen is not the beast it's made out to be. I admit it gets funny
under super hard cornering (which I tend to engage in) but not unmanageably so.
> Finally got caught up to the traffic, just in time to head off to Steamboat
> tomorrow. Thoroughly enjoying the discussion Matt brought up regarding the
> advantages (implied, claimed and tested) of the quattro drivetrain. Given my
> posts in the archives on this exact subject, a heretical brave soul, is still
> that. And Matt's points are well taken.
> AWD has advantages, but how high is it? Well, one could argue that 70+% of
> 'quattro' owners use the summer wheels as winter wheels. So that BMW with
> Blizzacks or Hakas, just might even have the edge in the nasty stuff.
> Traction control and smart ecu's and tires have really given 'quattro' a run
> for the money. And the tests seem to prove this out. Apples to apples, the
> gains are minimal, if a bunch of road test guys can only eek a 1/10th or 2 out
> of the quattro over fwd, that should tell us all that maybe quattro might be a
> neat toy, but in torsen iteration, maybe the marketing advantages outweigh the
> real. Audi is targeting the 7/10ths market with torsen, not the enthusiast.
> Does it work? Sure, at 7/10ths, where 95% of the drivers "play".
> However, that last 2-3/10ths, the torsen is a beast few want to tame. BTDT on
> just about every torsen chassis audi made (save Dave E's RS2, but been
> promised). This is not just a wet/slick environment problem, this is a
> control problem at the limit. And not a comforting one. Coming from a
> ProRally background, I enjoy driving q's hard, on the track, street, and
> snow/ice. The torsen has bitten my butt more times than ANY other setup, the
> VC cars included. VC goes to a set split when engaged, that IMO, beats a
> hunting Torsen any day. And hunt they do.
> I am trying to find some of the offline discussions that a couple of us had
> regarding the torsen and why. If I can find them, will post them up. But
> bottom line is this: you better be a really good driver to play beyond
> 7/10ths, cuz 11/10ths comes with little forwarning, and there, you aren't
> driving with skill, only instinct. And lucifer trying to kick you off the log
> with a hunting differential. The weight shift of the bigger cars tends to
> exaggerate the hunt, but the small cars have it too. A small change in input
> on the gas or the brakes, has an effect on the torsen split. Not a great
> problem at 7/10ths, a major problem beyond that. My first experience with it
> btw, was with a snow covered road, haka 10's, 70mph and a brand new torsen 88
> 90q (sideways, with a long slide to recovery).
> Several have pointed out the advantage of awd. It has them. I might point
> out Dave E, that Walter didn't run torsens. He ran fixed diff cars in
> Rallyes. The TC A4 had a neat little knobben for diff split. All the race
> cars of the 80's used a fixed split. And with awd, torsen isn't in the racing
> program (center diff). So, is it good for the street, probably. Is it better
> than the Gen I? For 7/10ths driving and 95% of the Audi market, yup. For
> those that drive beyond that market? I'll take Gen I anyday. Those running
> Torsens? Get a switch to control the rear locker beyond the 15mph, that at
> least can help.
> Ice is ice, studs are studs. I don't see the argument there. Learn the limit
> folks, it should become instinct, not a lesson. Steamboat is THE spot to do
> this, and fun to boot. Once a year driving at the limit and harmlessly
> beyond, helps instinct. And those of you that haven't yet been bitten by the
> Torsen lucifer, will. And when you do, you want instinct on your side.
> My report of Steamboat will follow next week.
> Scott Justusson
> '87 5ktqwRS2
> '86 5ktqw
> '84 Urq