# Dave E. - you're making the wrong assumptions.

```>the case you have stated (again and again) would only occur with a total loss
>of traction on one [virtual] axle at one point in the turn, followed by total
>loss of traction on the other axle at another point in the turn.
>i mean to say, how the heck do you drive?
>as i have stated, (and no-one has refuted) the lift of an inside wheel while
>cornering hard with a torsen produces an entirely *desirable* torque transfer
>to the rear, followed by a re-distribution of the torque to the front when
>wheel contact is re-established (again this is desirable).  no hunt.  no
bite.
>no argument.
>in the same case the open centre diff is a disaster, and the locked centre is
>similar to the torsen, but without the benefits of increased power to the
rear
>and so is slower through the turn.
>one other point about the torsen which has escaped notice is that the torque
>distribution happens *before* axle slip up to the limits of the bias ratio.
>this is a major diffence to the vc diff.

Dave you are missing the biggest point.  Look at it this way, take a car any
car go into a turn at 50mph, lay it out sideways, steering with the skid, what
happens?  The rear tires will stop ALL forward rotation, the fronts, since
they have a lower slip angle, will still have forward rotation.  REREAD this.
Now, go at that same turn with your Torsen q.  The physical properties of that
track and slip didn't change, YOU have to change them with power or lift
throttle.

What does the torsen think of this disparity, accel on?  IT assumes the
differential between the slower rear driveshaft and the faster front to mean
that the faster front is spinning.  Takes Tshift and puts it to the rear, YOU
don't have to lift a wheel for this to happen.  AND you haven't equalized T1
to T2, because you haven't done anything to reduce forward traction (which
reduces transmitted Trg).  As soon as Tshift goes forward, the rear wheel
slows again due to track NOT traction, and you hunt Tshift again, btdt.  NO
lifted wheel.

Dave, frustration is high, I understand.  FORGET wheel lift, you don't have it
in my scenario, so Trg stays at maximum, so does the Tshift front to rear.
Understand, you can have a rear wheel spinning, and not have Tshift OR a
reduction in Trg.  By definition of the center torsen in a turn.  Reread page
10, the unlikely has to do with a torsen on a common axle, NOT a Center.  This
is the physics of the bite.  You don't understand it, that is different from
the reality of maximum traction in a straight line, and a torsen center in a
turn.

So let me modify what you are saying.  No one refutes that with wheel lift you
have the scenario you do, why?  Because it's true.  You lose traction total
transmitted Trg goes down > equalizing effect.  My scenario is different, why?
Because you can create chassis dynamics that FOOLS the torsen, and you haven't
lost any traction.

HTH

Scott

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