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RE: Dave, Phil et. al. - some thoughts
but then scott, you turn around and deny that the *same* physics are
acting during your turn with a locked centre diff, and that the effect
the centre diff puts 50% of torque up for grabs at the axle with the
least traction, while the torsen only puts 30% up for grabs. so your
trg figures are *worse* for the locked centre...
to use your example "the-wheel-lift-scenario" (i quote):=
"Trg = 300lb/ft car 75/25/25/75. KISS, look at what that means in
T1 = 225lb/ft
T2 = 75 lb/ft
OR, anywhere in between.
T1 = 75 lb/ft
T2 = 225 lb/ft
Tshift MAX = 150lb/ft"
ok, here we go locked centre generation 1 quattro in the same scenario:-
tshift max = 150lb/ft
tshift max = 150lb/ft
so, using the locked centre we have the *same* torque transfer of
150lb/ft. the only difference is that the torsen has done the right
thing which means when the axle without traction regains it there is not
a sudden instanteous torque transfer of 150lb/ft (using your figures).
with the torsen, this torque modulation is only 75lb/ft which is *half*,
and so should be much more controllable....
so now can you understand why i'm confused at your stance?
>Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 11:04:42 EST
>From: QSHIPQ <QSHIPQ@aol.com>
>Subject: Dave, Phil et. al. - some thoughts
>The physics of the torsen dictate there is a huge Torque shift that is
>happening as you turn, given the right (or exactly wrong) circumstances. It
>appears that is consistent with driving at the limit of available cf, but
>that's not a constant either. So, please, let's change this from it didn't
>happen therefore there is no spider, to discussing the physics of the torsen.
>Jeff and I have tried to look at the Bite that HAS happened to us, in terms
>the physical limitations of the Torsen. It has them. Please, read the
>article, I can easily count those who have been bitten vs those that haven't.
>But those that haven't, have yet to explain what is wrong with the
>from those that have. That is the physics part, not the people part. I
>make enemies on purpose, I certainly don't want to make them here, with only
>So, I see the pot or the kettle this way. Either: A) You accept that some
>have been bitten and some haven't, and accept that by the physics, or B) I
>haven't been bitten, others that have were driver errror, and the physics of
>the Torsen presented by Jeff, I and others are wrong.
>I personally (with my btdt, and those that haven't btdt) easily accept A).
>you want me to believe B) I would ask for some specifics. The homework has
>been done. Do you accept that the torque shift happens? My understanding of
>a Torsen center diff is that it is possible, under the right or "wrong"
>circumstances, to shift Torque, a lot of it, from the front diff to the rear
>diff and back again, in the same turn, with rear wheel spin, no lift, and Trg
>is at or near maximum. And given that interpretation of the Bible (the
>paper), I can explain what happen to me, and what hasn't happened to some.
>have a little difficulty looking at physics, and taking the argument that "it
>hasn't happened to me, therefore the physics is not correct". Please help
>"I've never been in an accident, therefore all that did had driver error and
>the actuary tables are a farse." What's the difference here?
>Other ideas are certainly welcome. I don't give a hoot if I'm right or
>If I'm wrong in my interpretation of the physics, please do speak up.