Waking up in the dark

[QSHIPQ@aol.com]

Dave E writes:

>as already stated, this is a foolish and misleading argument.  none of
>the diff technology being raced in wrc, or super touring is available
>for the street.  from any manufacturer.  none.  zip.  end of story.

Er, not per YOUR claim Dave.  You claim (or you did, maybe that's changed in
the last week), that Audi ran the Torsen center differential in TCC.  So, the
above statement, per your own posts would indicate that you agree (now) that
audi never used the Torsen in Racing?  Foolish and misleading?  I think the
"or" statement just might be...  "end of story" as you claim.

>for example, the only similarity between the wrx sti centre diff and the
>diff used in the wrc car is that they are both called differentials.

Let's stick to the ST and/or TCC cars shall we?  Your confusing me with your
contradictions.

>once again, the "boys in the racing suits" do *not* use the diffs
>available to any of us, or to ordinary consumers.  so the point is just
>a troll.  

See above, an absolutely, positively and solid agreement with my statements of
To*rsens in Racing all along.  Whew, finally I got you to agree.  The question
is :  Why not?  In the case of the T*rsen, could it be high speed O and U in
the same turn?  What is significant, is the comments on controlling high speed
oversteer with torque splits half of what a T*rsen does while locking the
rear.  The comments don't address high speed understeer, cuz they don't run
torque splits more than 50% front.  The T*rsen does, so if the race boys speak
of high speed oversteer (with a 60/40 or 55/45 VC), you have a harder time
with a 78%/22 center.  And that's both directions.  Denying the laws of
physics is troll.  Thanks for finally definitively agreeing that the T*rsen
was never run on the A4 tcc though.

>also, the sweeping statements above seem to assume that everyone else
>has scott's extensive experience of the bite (except of course, his lack
>of experience in any of audi's sport-orientated chassis: ur-q, s2, rs2
>and new s4), and his in-depth understanding of the theory and operation
>of a centre vc.

Be careful Dave.  I'm quoting comments from the race boys.  The RS2 is a
common audi chassis (same center device), just more hp.  The new S4 is a
common audi chassis (same center device), just more hp.  I've driven those
chassis with Torsens, so not sure I'm with your claim.  I just got them to
bite with less HP.  Your intrinsic argument that putting more hp and better
tires, brakes and suspension will make a T*rsen center smart (gee, isn't that
what the BTCC boys did?  Why did they still run VC's?  And why do they still
run VC's in the fwd cars?).

I don't care what the device is really.  IF high speed O and high speed U
(argument made by no front bias more than 45% raced) are concerns with a VC,
then what are the concerns with a T*rsen.  I make no claims of the operation
of the devices.  They are dumb.  They allocate torque in a turn.  What does
that mean in terms of chassis dynamics?  Just per the quoted material a little
shift in torque allocation makes a huge difference in chassis dynamics while
turning.  My claim, and King's and Biela's and Bintcliff's.  I'm sure they are
in "pr" mode though.....

>perhaps, to help us mere mortals, scott should explain the theory of how
>the vc handles low & high speed cornering in a centre application, and
>just how this differs from the torsen?  also, perhaps a little guidance
>as to how the vc can "lock" a rear bias.

Hey Dave, welcome to take this offline.  For list purposes, happy to speak of
U and O in a chassis, with VC and with T*rsen.  If none of us has a VC,
wasting more BW on it seems rather silly.  For us "no handers", maybe you can
explain how the Urq and the RS2 have no high speed O and U problems with a
T*rsen center diff?  How does one dial that out in a chassis?  Why couldn't
the BTCC cars do it?  Why do King, Biela and Bintcliff all comment on "too
much" oversteer with a 60/40 torque split?  What would you recommend that they
do to address that?  Put in a "better" center differential?  

My focus is on O and U while turning.  The device is irrelevent to that
argument right now.  Amazingly Dave, you have figured out how to drive a
quattro drivetrain better than Biela and Bintcliff.  AND defy Kings on
comments on torque splits.  And claim that King was wrong in his assessment of
the Accord.  I believe all their quotes are consistent with the claims and
statements and math I've presented all along.  And, in the case of the Accord,
consistent with the race results to date, and Audis chassis tuning to date.
Why would Audi move the BTCC Engine backwards 6inches from the road A4?  Why
would Audi use a single plate clutch in their race A4's to accomodate this
engine shift?  

>otherwise, we'll just put up with some more of the same half formed
>ideas.

So, about "T*rsens in Racing"? You now admit that that was "some more of the
half formed ideas".  I seem to be in fine company, per your own post, Davey,. 

Scott Justusson
'87 5ktqwRS2
'84 Urq