Re: 4kcsq lifter probs and timing

[quk@isham-research.demon.co.uk (Phil Payne)]

In message <35F986CE.C0EB6C7D@earthlink.net> dannoelle writes:

> ... timing belt, lifters, water pump changed ...
>
>     Dropped off car for repairs.  When I picked up
> the car, was told that it was test driven and that
> all was great.  Took the car for a short test
> drive, and car would drop revs at lights, until it
> almost stalled.  Took car back to mechanics who
> proceeded to charge me again to check timing.
> Checked timing and was told that car was
> significantly advanced.

Let's stop here for a second.  'Lifters' is a cam-out job, which
inevitably involves completely resetting the timing - it's part of
the job.  If the timing was wrong _after_ the job, it is 100% the
responsibility of the mechanic.  Your engine is not so much of a
problem, but on other I5 engines getting this wrong can wreck the
engine.  If it was found "significantly advanced" it is SOLELY the
responsibility of the reassembling mechanic - all of the salient
settings are destroyed by the act of removing the cam to change the
lifters.  _Their_ problem.

> Changed timing to factory
> specs, and problem gets worse--still nearly stalls
> after letting off accelerator when revved, and now
> won't hit redline without struggle whereas car
> previously revved very easily.  Traced down vacuum
> leak (that wasn't there prior to their repairs), I
> believe that they swapped out the ISV and possibly
> a throttle body with a spare to no avail, and set
> CO content to factory specs  ( Fuel injectors had
> been cleaned about six months priorby another
> shop). What other things they did, I am not
> entirely certain.  Seemed to have car running ok,
> was really tired of waiting and frustrated at
> watching them fumble for two days in an attempt to
> diagnose problems.  My fiance hates my car, so I
> was hesitant to spend more time and money with a
> shop that seemed to have questionable skills to
> begin with.  Drove car home.
>
> It has been nearly 2 months now, and the car is
> running like crap.  It was running pretty well,
> with exception of awful lifter noise, until the
> repairs were made.  These repairs were supposed to
> make things better, btw.  Now, once again the
> lifters are making lots of noise, not only on
> start up, but even after the car has been driven
> and warmed up over many miles.  I thought that new
> lifters were supposed to help this problem for at
> least 100k miles or close to that figure. The
> stumbling problem with the revs dropping when
> coming to a light is worse than ever.  It has
> never actually stalled, but it has backfired
> occasionally.  Oh, and I changed the cap and rotor
> when we got home, and found that the shop had
> positioned it improperly on the car.  :-(
>
> On a separate but possibly related note, I have
> had problems with the cap and rotor in the recent
> past, where the rotor has actually been melted at
> the end, and the cap is actually in bad shape in a
> very short time.  Any ideas on what's causing
> stumbling and drop in rpm's?  I'm not sure if the
> cap and rotor were on the car properly when they
> did the timing.  If not, is this a possible
> cause?  I'm really tempted to go back to my
> previous mechanic (who claims to be factory
> trained) and have him advance the timing ( at the
> expense of my engine's duration?), hoping that
> this will make the car run as it did before.  I'm
> totally frustrated at this point, and usually do
> all work that I can by myself as I am very
> distrustful of auto mechanics in general and am
> always on a budget.
>
> Once again, thanks for any insight and wisdom.
> I'm always learning when it comes to this car, and
> swimming upstream due to "significant other"
> objections.  But I love this car and I've had it
> for eight years now with no significant problems.

I think that any shop that can reassemble an engine out of timing
is not going to be trustworthy for anything else - especially
verdicts on their own work.  Cut and run.

> Also, I know this is getting long, but there has
> been some mention recently about "on-car
> balancing" as it relates to alignment.  I have had
> this procedure used and it makes sense, but what
> happens when you do tire rotation?  Does that then
> throw the car out of balance and alignment?

Yes, it does.  But one of the benefits of "on-car balancing" is that
it tends to eliminate the sort of wear that requires regular rotation.
I would suggest you 'rotate' only once - new tyres go in pairs onto
the front, and the best used ones go onto the back.  Repeat as
required.  IMO only the front ever benefits from 'on-car balancing'.

It's an unusual thing to discuss, outside of Germany.  The German fiche
mention it quite a lot.

--
 Phil Payne
 Phone: 0385 302803   Fax: 01536 723021
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