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RE: ENRADD - Electronic Non Radar Device

And how is the traffic computer taking your picture supposed to decide 
whether or not it was safe for you to stop.

I don't run red lights, and I know of no one that won't wait for one just 
because it is taking too long.  The last major running a red light accident 
locally was when an off duty sheriff's deputy ran a light and rammed a 
family.  The usual scenario for running a red light is thinking the yellow 
is longer than it is and having the light change from yellow to red as you 
are under it.  Since there is no standardized yellow time, you have to 
guess at every stoplight.  99% of the time we lazy Americans guess right, 
but occasionally we are wrong.  No one here drives as you describe as the 
norm in Boston.  Maybe it is just you lazy Yankees who can't wait for a 
light.  Also here in Greenville NC, we have some lights that if you are the 
first car in line, and the light turns green, there is a good chance you 
won't make it accoss the intersection before it turns red.  I have quest  
iones the police about this, and they just say we have to deal with it too.

The actual theory is people are going to mistakenly run yellow/red lights 
from now to eternity, so we might as well capitalize on it.  In the city 
council discussions safety was barely mentioned, it was just how much money 
can we get.

I am not opposed to policemen watching intersections, and pulling violators 
who actually committed a crime, in fact I feel this would be a far more 
productive use of their time than catching speeders.  I am opposed to a 
camera deciding I am guilty, without a trial, and potentially being forced 
to pay a fine for a crime I did not commit (remember ticket is to owner, 
not driver)

Why don't they spend some of the money on improving the signals.  I sure 
most of the collisions you feel happen because of impatience could be 
avoided if the car sensors implanted in the road actually worked.  How many 
times have you waited at a light where no one else was at the intersection. 
 I frequently have to wait (and I do wait) 5 mins for the light to turn 
green.  This wastes gas and causes unnecessayr greenhouse gas emission 
(something else you are all worked up about, too, I bet)

George Selby
78 F-150 400M, 4 on floor, 4x4
86 Audi 4000CS Quattro

-----Original Message-----
From:	Brett Dikeman [SMTP:brett@pdikeman.ne.mediaone.net]
Sent:	Sunday, July 25, 1999 11:29 AM
To:	IsuzuG@prodigy.net
Cc:	Quattro List (E-mail)
Subject:	RE: ENRADD - Electronic Non Radar Device

Good.  I hope every state does this.  How many listers have been in,
or know someone who was in, an accident because someone ran a light?

Goddam lazy americans love running lights because they're in such a
goddam rush(they couldn't -possibly- wait the minute or two for the
light to change), and it's time someone put an end to it and taught
people that you can't break the law just because you're impatient.
It is probably the single biggest traffic problem in Boston; people
just keep piling into the intersection even after the light changes,
block it up or nearly hit people who have the green light.  I've
watched people -continue- to go through a light, even after the OTHER
DIRECTION has started crossing.

   You act like an idiot, you get a little piece of your freedom taken
away.  The only way you'll learn is if you get in trouble with the
law, or you cause an accident.  The theory goes that if people are
financially punished for doing something that has -always- been
against the law, then they will probably, in the interests of their
checkbooks, be observant of the law.

If your car isn't running the light, then your car won't be in the
camera's view.  The same people who complain about cops "sitting
around" watching intersections will probably complain about this too;
which would you prefer?  Cameras can't patrol or chase down bad guys.

Oh, and the "people will be screetching to a halt at lights"
argument...whatever.  The law reads that you must stop unless it is
unsafe to do so.  It is not a challenging thing to decide whether you
will clear an intersection before the light turns to red.  That's
what "yellow" is for.  My simple rule is that if I have the room to
stop when the light has changed to yellow, I'm going to stop; if I
don't, it probably means I'm going fairly quick and I will easily
clear the intersection well before the light changes to red a few
seconds later.  Plain and simple.

Grow up and quit your whining.

At 1:55 PM -0400 7/24/99, George W. Selby, III wrote:
>Ah, our illustrious state governmant legislature passed a law which allows
>the use of red light cameras.  Ten cities in North Carolina are putting
>them up.  What makes it legal (supposedly) is that it is not a driving
>violation, it is a civil penalty, and the intersections have to be marked.
> I can see this causing more rear-end collisions as people now start
>smacking on the brakes at intersections to avoid running the light.

>George W. Selby, III wrote:
> >
> > Our illustrious city council came up with two choices to raise revenue
> > prevent accidents).  One way was a $5 dollar head tax at local bars and
> > nightclubs.  The second was cameras at red lights, taking pictures of
> > violators.  Guess which won.  Yep, the red light cameras.  Fortunately,
> > ticket is a pay fine only violation, no points assessed against your
> > license.  And it is against the owner of the vehicle, not the driver.
> >

Brett Dikeman
"Diplomacy is the art of telling someone to go to hell and making
them happy to be on their way." - Mark Twain

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