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Re: Homebrew IC's

Very obviously, from your post, you know nothing about the configuration
I've discussed in detail, yet you continue to knock the idea down. Read
the body, you're asking about configuration, etc. and then you make a bold
statement saying that I'm trying to reinvent the wheel and my motivation
is a $10 fix? 

I'm sorry to contribute to this after agreeing to end this, but inane
comments like this really get to me, especially when other listers will
poick up this letter out of context and flame me about the idea. To answer
all your questions, look no further than the archives.

*Steve                                             Sachelle Babbar
*'87  5000CS Turbo 5spd 1.3-2.0 bar             <SBABBAR@IRIS.NYIT.EDU>
*Cockpit adjustable wastegate, AudiSport badge
*Disclaimer:"Any information contained herein is based purely on my own
*personal experience and may not necessarily reflect yours. Use caution as
*your results may vary from mine."

On Fri, 10 Dec 1999 QSHIPQ@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 12/9/99 2:05:17 PM Central Standard Time, 
> sbabbar@iris.nyit.edu writes:
> >For myself, this is an easy idea.
> Ideas are easy, I have no problem with that.  Effective execution of them 
> aren't, btdt many times.
> > My only roadblock right now is finding
> >cost effective core tubing. It will work in assembly terms once I get it.
> >Sometimes working from scratch is better than reinventing an already
> >established product. My core has damaged lower tubes. You reusing core
> >idea is no good. Spearco, tap and, aluminum fabricators are expensive.
> A stock core (with damaged end caps) can be had for a song, btdt, I 
> reluctantly paid a guy 25bux for one a couple months ago, I really didn't 
> even want it.  What is the price you were quoted for the conversion to single 
> pass?  Or is that just a statement?  IMO, I'm just seeing a lot of excitement 
> here, without a firm grasp of targets and reasoning.  What do you figure your 
> pressure drop to be?  What is your targetted efficiency and flow?  I can 
> share this with you:  Beating the efficiency and flow of the stock size audi 
> IC's isn't easy.  How big is the IC you are putting together?  Are you making 
> it single or double pass?  Are you making a plug in replacement for the 
> existing IC?  If you are, there are better options available to you.  That 
> said you might meet your target of more flow, if that's really what you want. 
>  Given your 10dollar boost mod, I'm not convinced that *should* be your 
> target.
> > In any event, this idea is a simple one for me. I've made more intricated
> >  things in the past. As far as the assembly, it's going well and everything
> >  is sizing up. If you don't have a good understanding of things, that's
> >  fine. This is no skin off your back as far as how hard it is, so it's best
> >  not to discourage someone from a project about that. Rather,
> >  discouragement should come from a bad design point of view and I don't
> >  believe that the list had a detail that was descriptive enough to be able
> >  to fully understand. I could comment on the rest of your letter, but you
> >  really need to read up on Physics, thermodynamics, and thermochemistry.
> >  
> Ok, I'm all for projects, btd plenty.  I'm a homework kinda guy, a practical 
> engineer, the lab guy.  From what I've seen from you on this subject, you 
> *are* trying to reinvent the wheel.  I have no big problem with that.  What 
> might help someone who has free access to a university library, would be some 
> research.  To start this project, I would look at the objectives I posted to 
> you.  But FIRST, why not just do some basic review of the literature to make 
> sure what you are doing, is worth the effort.  Why is more flow internally 
> and externally your objective?  I can share with you a story about a audi 
> vendor that offers a 20vt IC "upgrade" that claims to flow 20% more air than 
> the stock.  Guess what the *actual* installed results dictated? 
> >Haven't you ever had a creative idea? Ever wanna just follow through?
> Many times, including on this very subject.  What I found was, reinventing 
> the wheel costs time and money, and usually you find that what has been 
> invented on a mass scale (not a one off) usually has better results wrt 
> targets.  But here you don't have any really.  Better internal and external 
> flow is oversimplifying an IC.  More surface area inside and out of a heat 
> exchanger, makes in more efficient, not flow.  So is your primary target flow 
> or efficiency?  Why?  What are the design flaws in the audi IC?  Any 
> improvements that you can see, looking just at the core construction?
> >I like Audis because you need some creative thought to put
> >things together. Sure, I can spend $750 on a boost mod, but my $10
> >wastegate controller setup works just fine. BTW: I was told that it'll
> >never work right and that my engine will always run lean.
> A 10 dollar mod, to me, is like a motorcyclist with a 10dollar helmet. Ever 
> measure if you are running lean?  You could mod the WG for less than 10bux if 
> you want to.
> I've done plenty of homework wrt to IC's Sachelle.  Based on it, I'm not 
> convinced you are heading in the right direction.  I'm also not at all 
> convinced that it takes a huge knowledge of physics to understand how they 
> work and what they do.  Simple math is all it takes.  And all that simple 
> math gives you is a "guesstimate" as to what it does in a given car.  Until 
> you actually get a reading (b4 and after IC) installed you are 'best 
> guessing'.
> Again, I don't want to be the grinch that stole the IC.  I'm just the realist 
> and practical engineer looking at information in the context of other 
> information:  mine and the documented.  IMO, you have an oversimplified the 
> concept and understanding of IC's.  I predict your end measured results will 
> reflect that.  Best of luck to you.
> Scott J