From tommy.arnberg at nokia.com Wed Nov 1 10:43:05 2000 From: tommy.arnberg at nokia.com (tommy.arnberg@nokia.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:19 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Audi 20V Turbo Crankcase Breather System Tuning, - some hel p found Message-ID: <0B3F42CA1FB6D2118FE50008C7894B0A03AFF450@eseis06nok> Hello ! THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IS THAT WITH HIGH BOOST THE CRANKCASE OIL/AIR MIXTURE FLOW GETS INTO THE INLET VALVES AND STICKS TO THE VALVE SURFACE AND AFTER LONGER HARD USE THE INLET VALVES ARE PROBABLY NOT 94% TO 97% TIGHT ANY MORE ! ---> this means lower HP and higher fuel consumption ! Breather Medicine seems to be allready quite close: http://www.martelbros.com/stefs/23.htm I have changed mail with Frank and he posted the Internet prices for products: *********************************************** STE 5100 $333.68 STE 5102 $333.68 STE 5110 $ 73.68 STE 5115 $ 65.26 STE 5116 $ 71.58 STE 5118 $ 76.84 STE 5120 $170.53 STE 5121 $ 87.37 STE 5122 $ 95.79 STE 5124 $ 76.84 STE 5125 $ 13.06 STE 5126 $ 13.24 STE 5127 $ 7.50 All Prices Reflect Internet Discounts Martel Brothers Performance "World's Largest Manufacturers Catalog Site" Serious Parts for Serious Racers www.martelbrothers.com 800-882-7223 frank@martelbros.com ******************************************* Could someone ask about the usage details of the Martelbrothers products. It is difficult for me because of long distance and 10 hours time difference ?! rgs, Tommy > -----Original Message----- > From: EXT Phil Rose [mailto:pjrose@frontiernet.net] > Sent: 31. October 2000 18:56 > To: C1J1Miller@aol.com > Cc: tommy.arnberg@nokia.com; ouellette@snet.net; > birabrakes@egroups.com; > 200q20v@audifans.com > Subject: Re: [200q20v] Re: [birabrakes] Audi 20V Turbo Crankcase > Breather System Tuning, help neede d ! > > > This sounds exactly like the "problem" I recently posted on > the 200q20v > list. My Michelin Man hose quite suddenly has started collecting large > amounts of oil (well, OK teaspoons full) very soon after my ecu chip > upgrade was done. Totally dry before that. I suspected the crankcase > breather as the source and thought it might be a defective pressure > regulator valve. Right now I'd say that my MM hose is acting as the > "settling tank", but obviously we'd all be much better off to have oil > condense before reaching the IC, MM or IM. > > In normal spirited street driving, the oil from my car that's > "lost" this > way appears to amount to no more than 1/2 qt in 2-3K miles. That upper > limit assumes none of the total drop in oil level is from from other > reasons (burning, etc). But in any case it makes a mess of > the MM hose and > I'd like find a fix, if possible. Perhaps there's room for a "settling > tank" to be fitted in the breather hose line near the > right/rear corner of > the engine just before the cranckcase pressure regulator > valve. In fact, > possibly the high-pressure washer bracket could be used to > secure it. Seems > all it would take is two short lengths of rubber hose, 4 clamps and an > appropriate container. But would it stay cool enough back > there to condense > most of the oil? > > Phil R. > > > At 9:24 AM -0500 10/31/00, C1J1Miller@aol.com wrote: > >In a message dated Tue, 31 Oct 2000 6:40:05 AM Eastern > Standard Time, > >tommy.arnberg@nokia.com writes: > > > ><< > >Hello ! > > > >As you all know the breather system is closed > >and when boost is a little higher than stock, > >then the crankcase ventilation system in 3B > >engine (200 20V) pushes the polluted oily air fume back > >to Turbo charger "mouth" > > > >- conceguences: > > * fuel octane rating in mixture to be burned gets lower > > * Inter cooler cooling ability gets worse because of > oil-air fume > > * the inlet valves get burned oil build up (the worst of all) > > * air into engine gets warme > >=============== > >The operation of the crankcase breather hose is explained in > detail on Scott > >Mockry's excellent (as always) pages, here: > >http://www.sjmautotechnik.com/20vboost.html#hose > > > >"This breather hose is routed around the back of the engine > and one end > >connects to the round black crankcase pressure > > regulator valve near the back of the valve cover. This > black regulator > >valve, controls the flow of crankcase fumes to the turbo > > intake boot. The valve has two ports inside, one is > approximately 0.400 > >diameter and a smaller one that is approximately > > 0.180 inches. The larger port and the smaller port are > open during low > >boost operation but when the turbo makes enough > > boost and flows enough air to produce a vacuum on the > suction side of > >the turbo, the regulator valve diaphragm sucks closed > > and blocks off the larger port. This leaves only the > smaller port open > >to flow crankcase breather fumes. " > > > >There is more, including a diagram, but the basics are that > the breather is > >mostly closed off during higher boost conditions. > >====================== > > > > > >The Gastank ventilation is operated with the > >"Blue valve" to inlet manifold. The piping has a > >valve that prevents back flow from inlet manifold during boost > >condition and during vacuum it sucks the air from crank case and > >through the blue valve from gas tank ventilation system. > > > >Has anyone disconnected / modified the stock system following > >way or better way ? what is the right way. (I know this is not > >legal but otherwise the engine gets older a lot faster !) > > > >[ Crank_breath.ppt ] > > > >If someone knows good product that solves this problem, > >please mail www-pages and/or source for it ! > > > >rgs, > >Tommy > > >> > > > >Looks to me like you want an oil collector system to limit > oily vapor from > >being combusted. I've seen other turbo cars install a > "settling tank" where > >the vapor can collect, condense, and later be drained... > > > >Tommy: can you store that file somewhere that the 200q20v > owners can access > >it? > > > >On my car, with 5000 mile oil intervals, I burn very little > measurable oil; > >perhaps 1/2 quart at most? > >chris > >_______________________________________________ > >200q20v mailing list > >200q20v@audifans.com > >http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v > > > ********************************* > * Phil & Judy Rose Rochester, NY * > * mailto:pjrose@frontiernet.net * > ********************************* > > > > From brett at pdikeman.ne.mediaone.net Wed Nov 1 19:10:11 2000 From: brett at pdikeman.ne.mediaone.net (Brett Dikeman) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Audi 20V Turbo Crankcase Breather System Tuning In-Reply-To: <0B3F42CA1FB6D2118FE50008C7894B0A03AFF450@eseis06nok> References: <0B3F42CA1FB6D2118FE50008C7894B0A03AFF450@eseis06nok> Message-ID: At 10:43 AM +0200 11/1/00, tommy.arnberg@nokia.com wrote: >Hello ! > >THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IS THAT WITH HIGH >BOOST THE CRANKCASE OIL/AIR MIXTURE FLOW GETS INTO THE >INLET VALVES AND STICKS TO THE VALVE SURFACE >AND AFTER LONGER HARD USE THE INLET VALVES ARE PROBABLY NOT >94% TO 97% TIGHT ANY MORE ! >STE 5122 $ 95.79 So sounds like a motovac treatment, or top-cylinder-soak-in-cleaner treatment (such as the mopar stuff) would help with builtup gunk, and installation of something like the STE5122 would take care of the oil. At $95, that's an "okay" solution i guess. The main problem is...it looks like a sizeable widget. Where would it get placed? I can only think of room in back of the engine, maybe mounted where the washer bottle used to be in the 5k's...but there is a fair amount of heat from the exhaust in that area that might be torture for the hoses(then again, the windshield bottle did just fine; a little aluminium shielding...) This has got to be the source of the oil on the MAF sensors...and I agree, there is a lot of oil which gets into the IC. I cleaned mine out completely with dish soap solution and the water came out black even after a second swish of clean water+soap. This is what a leakdown test is for, yes? Maybe if we find there is a correlation among several owners(accounting for how long they've had the chip, and how hard they admit they drive their cars :-), between "chipped or not" and leakdown test results...and maybe we can determine if the problem can be corrected with cleaning? It might be obvious, it might be semi-obvious, or it just might not make any sense at all. Anyway, this seemed to be entering into Phil P. territory, so I though I'd cc him on this one to see if he has any input on the subject. If $100 keeps me from coating everything from the turbo to the tailpipe with carbon and yields better performance+engine life as a result, I find it hard to argue. Brett PS:removed bira-brakes, this isn't appropriate for their list, really... -- ---- Brett Dikeman Systems Engineer ProAct Technologies Corporation 914-872-8043 (formerly CFN[formerly iClick, Inc]) 914-872-8100(fax) 120 Bloomingdale Rd. http://www.proacttechnologies.com White Plains, NY 10605 PGP Fingerprint: 06C2 5D5B D2B4 7626 BB24 2BBC 9E4A C8B3 PGP Key location: http://pdikeman.ne.mediaone.net/pgp/brett.pgp From pjrose at frontiernet.net Wed Nov 1 11:36:29 2000 From: pjrose at frontiernet.net (Phil Rose) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Re: Audi 20V Turbo Crankcase Breather System Tuning, - some hel p found In-Reply-To: <0B3F42CA1FB6D2118FE50008C7894B0A03AFF450@eseis06nok> Message-ID: Tommy, Looks to me that the configuration in Martel Bros. STE 5110 (tank) plus STE 5127 (removable cap) would be about right, but the lid to tank connection is only "push-on", and I think it's not sealed (i.e., is vented.) On the other hand STE 5122 (air/oil separator) is possibly just the kind of thing what we're talking about--it certainly has the right name. I'll call Martel to get more info. Phil At 3:43 AM -0500 11/1/00, tommy.arnberg@nokia.com wrote: >Hello ! > >THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IS THAT WITH HIGH >BOOST THE CRANKCASE OIL/AIR MIXTURE FLOW GETS INTO THE >INLET VALVES AND STICKS TO THE VALVE SURFACE >AND AFTER LONGER HARD USE THE INLET VALVES ARE PROBABLY NOT >94% TO 97% TIGHT ANY MORE ! > >---> this means lower HP and higher fuel consumption ! > >Breather Medicine seems to be allready quite close: >http://www.martelbros.com/stefs/23.htm > >I have changed mail with Frank >and he posted the Internet prices for products: >*********************************************** >STE 5100 $333.68 >STE 5102 $333.68 > >STE 5110 $ 73.68 >STE 5115 $ 65.26 > >STE 5116 $ 71.58 >STE 5118 $ 76.84 > >STE 5120 $170.53 >STE 5121 $ 87.37 > >STE 5122 $ 95.79 >STE 5124 $ 76.84 > >STE 5125 $ 13.06 >STE 5126 $ 13.24 > >STE 5127 $ 7.50 > > All Prices Reflect Internet Discounts > > Martel Brothers Performance >"World's Largest Manufacturers Catalog Site" > Serious Parts for Serious Racers > www.martelbrothers.com > 800-882-7223 > frank@martelbros.com >******************************************* > >Could someone ask about the usage details of the >Martelbrothers products. It is difficult for me because of >long distance and 10 hours time difference ?! > >rgs, >Tommy > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: EXT Phil Rose [mailto:pjrose@frontiernet.net] >> Sent: 31. October 2000 18:56 >> To: C1J1Miller@aol.com >> Cc: tommy.arnberg@nokia.com; ouellette@snet.net; >> birabrakes@egroups.com; >> 200q20v@audifans.com >> Subject: Re: [200q20v] Re: [birabrakes] Audi 20V Turbo Crankcase >> Breather System Tuning, help neede d ! >> >> >> This sounds exactly like the "problem" I recently posted on >> the 200q20v >> list. My Michelin Man hose quite suddenly has started collecting large >> amounts of oil (well, OK teaspoons full) very soon after my ecu chip >> upgrade was done. Totally dry before that. I suspected the crankcase >> breather as the source and thought it might be a defective pressure >> regulator valve. Right now I'd say that my MM hose is acting as the >> "settling tank", but obviously we'd all be much better off to have oil > ********************************* * Phil & Judy Rose Rochester, NY * * mailto:pjrose@frontiernet.net * ********************************* From pjrose at frontiernet.net Thu Nov 2 00:08:16 2000 From: pjrose at frontiernet.net (Phil Rose) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Audi 20V Turbo Crankcase Breather System Tuning In-Reply-To: References: <0B3F42CA1FB6D2118FE50008C7894B0A03AFF450@eseis06nok> <0B3F42CA1FB6D2118FE50008C7894B0A03AFF450@eseis06nok> Message-ID: At 7:10 PM -0500 11/1/00, Brett Dikeman wrote: >At 10:43 AM +0200 11/1/00, tommy.arnberg@nokia.com wrote: >>Hello ! >> >>THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IS THAT WITH HIGH >>BOOST THE CRANKCASE OIL/AIR MIXTURE FLOW GETS INTO THE >>INLET VALVES AND STICKS TO THE VALVE SURFACE >>AND AFTER LONGER HARD USE THE INLET VALVES ARE PROBABLY NOT >>94% TO 97% TIGHT ANY MORE ! > > > >>STE 5122 $ 95.79 > [snip] >is...it looks like a sizeable widget. Where would it get placed? I >can only think of room in back of the engine, maybe mounted where the >washer bottle used to be in the 5k's...but there is a fair amount of >heat from the exhaust in that area that might be torture for the >hoses(then again, the windshield bottle did just fine; a little >aluminium shielding...) Yep, as was said in yesterday's posts? :-) Anyway, Tommy A. seems to believe the device should be a _vented_ oil-separator, whereas I had assumed that any oil collection device would need to maintain the closed crankcase breather system. Tommy says (of the bottle w/vented cap): >This "vented thing" is very handy and important because >the oil/air -pressure has to come out of the system >when the original connection to Turbo charger >input is disconnected ! And the bigger the >hole is the easier is the pressured air to come out ! > >Disconnection from Turbo input (see Audi chart Audi S2 ABY >and there the part numbers 13, 12, 15) >is needed for stopping the air contamination >before inlet valves ! My own naive view is that you need to maintain a closed loop and just take out as much oil as possible from the crankcase air flow before it reaches the MAF, turbo, IC, MM-hose or IM. Seems to me that the "vented" approach will have inherent problems (unmetered air, carbon canister fumes, etc.) An important preliminary step was indicated by Chris, which is to establish whether or not the oem crankcase pressure regulator is at fault if excessive quantities of oil are observed to coat (contaminate) the intake tract. Possibilities are (1) that the crankcase pressure regulator is simply defective, or (2) that if not defective it is inadequate; that is, that minimum breather pathway (0.180" dia aperture) through the regulator--when seeing turbo-intake vacuum--is simply too large for boost levels that exceed the stock 1.8 bar design. One further question that comes to mind is: to what extent is a crankcase-breather problem caused by an air filter that's too restrictive (e.g., too dirty)? I raise this point since the turbo intake-tract vacuum (which is what pulls in the crankcase gases) ought to be be significantly impacted by the airbox/cleaner restriction, right? Hence, I wonder if the people who use K&N air filters (and have boost mods) experience less severe "contamination" from the crankcase breather, since wouldn't they be operating with a lower vacuum at the turbo intake? Phil Phil Rose Rochester, NY '91 200q mailto:pjrose@frontiernet.net From tommy.arnberg at nokia.com Thu Nov 2 10:16:04 2000 From: tommy.arnberg at nokia.com (tommy.arnberg@nokia.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Audi 20V Turbo Crankcase Breather System Tunin g Message-ID: <0B3F42CA1FB6D2118FE50008C7894B0A03AFF46F@eseis06nok> Hello ! Some new comments. - vented = the pressure gets out of the system to free air somehow - the pressure has to come out, otherwise...BANG and oil every where... - it can be done several ways: * burning in the engine near the valves (Factory method) (by the way, imagine how the burned black stuff enters the CATs...) * letting the crankcase and valve cover fumes into free air (this is illegal, but...) - the carbon canister system MUST be connected to inlet manifold but doing so that the black back flow preventing valve (part number 6) http://www.egroups.com/files/Audi20V_Kruemmer/Crank_bre_3B.ppt is taken out of use and connection closed at end of #11 This could be the new system (page 2 and 3) http://www.egroups.com/files/Audi20V_Kruemmer/Crank_breath.ppt - Carbon canister fumes are needed during vacum (idle also) conditions to make the mixture richer. > Anyway, Tommy A. seems to believe the device should be a _vented_ > oil-separator, whereas I had assumed that any oil collection > device would need to maintain the closed crankcase breather system. Tommy > says (of the bottle w/vented cap): > >This "vented thing" is very handy and important because > >the oil/air -pressure has to come out of the system > >when the original connection to Turbo charger > >input is disconnected ! And the bigger the > >hole is the easier is the pressured air to come out ! > > My own naive view is that you need to maintain a closed loop > and just take out as much oil as possible from the crankcase air flow > before it reaches the MAF, turbo, IC, MM-hose or IM. Seems to me that the > "vented" approach will have inherent problems > (unmetered air, carbon canister fumes, etc.) It would be ideal to have perfect separator and collector and averything in closed system. I hardly belive that it would be "optimal" from high boost point of view. When optimal it would be much better than the factory solution ! > whether or not the oem crankcase pressure regulator is at fault if > excessive quantities of oil are observed .... I do not belive that the oem crankcase pressure regulator is fault because it does not prevent the Oil fumes getting into the valves - the pressure goes either through Turbo (high boost condition) or when in vacuum condition then through back flow valve #6 and rubber hose #11 or #11a to inlet manifold and then to valves - during boost the valve #6 is closed (try to blow air through it the other way !) (when pressure at both sides of #6 then the net flow direction is tricky !) In the factory system, when connected correctly there is a part of "poorly metered air", during boost. I assume that, when the extra air/fuel goes through crankcase breather system the mixture is not corect any more for reburning. The main mixture gets ~leaner when A LOT of crankcase fumes get into Turbo and further back to valves. This applies for older engines with high boost. This is not so simple thing and I would like to hear some comments !! Regards, Tommy From knotnook at traverse.com Thu Nov 2 08:01:35 2000 From: knotnook at traverse.com (Kneale Brownson) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Audi 20V Turbo Crankcase Breather System Tuning In-Reply-To: References: <0B3F42CA1FB6D2118FE50008C7894B0A03AFF450@eseis06nok> <0B3F42CA1FB6D2118FE50008C7894B0A03AFF450@eseis06nok> Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20001102075632.00b96e10@traverse.com> Aren't most of our (US) boost enhancements more or less efforts to make the engines perform the way they were designed for other markets? Did Audi include in its US designs a different crankcase pressure regulator than in the engines we've tried to emulate? Do those "other" engines use the same air filtration as "ours"? At 12:08 AM 11/02/2000 -0500, Phil Rose wrote: >My own naive view is that you need to maintain a closed loop and just take >out as much oil as possible from the crankcase air flow before it reaches >the MAF, turbo, IC, MM-hose or IM. Seems to me that the "vented" approach >will have inherent problems (unmetered air, carbon canister fumes, etc.) > >An important preliminary step was indicated by Chris, which is to establish >whether or not the oem crankcase pressure regulator is at fault if >excessive quantities of oil are observed to coat (contaminate) the intake >tract. Possibilities are (1) that the crankcase pressure regulator is >simply defective, or (2) that if not defective it is inadequate; that is, >that minimum breather pathway (0.180" dia aperture) through the >regulator--when seeing turbo-intake vacuum--is simply too large for boost >levels that exceed the stock 1.8 bar design. > >One further question that comes to mind is: to what extent is a >crankcase-breather problem caused by an air filter that's too restrictive >(e.g., too dirty)? I raise this point since the turbo intake-tract vacuum >(which is what pulls in the crankcase gases) ought to be be significantly >impacted by the airbox/cleaner restriction, right? Hence, I wonder if the >people who use K&N air filters (and have boost mods) experience less severe >"contamination" from the crankcase breather, since wouldn't they be >operating with a lower vacuum at the turbo intake? > >Phil From tommy.arnberg at nokia.com Thu Nov 2 15:00:12 2000 From: tommy.arnberg at nokia.com (tommy.arnberg@nokia.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Audi 20V Turbo Crankcase Breather System Tunin g, new pictures Message-ID: <0B3F42CA1FB6D2118FE50008C7894B0A03AFF478@eseis06nok> Hi ! New updated links - modified breather picture http://www.egroups.com/files/Audi20V_Kruemmer/Crank_bre_3B.ppt http://www.egroups.com/files/Audi20V_Kruemmer/Crank_breath.ppt rgs, Tommy From tommy.arnberg at nokia.com Thu Nov 2 15:06:18 2000 From: tommy.arnberg at nokia.com (tommy.arnberg@nokia.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Audi 20V Turbo Crankcase Breather System Tunin g Message-ID: <0B3F42CA1FB6D2118FE50008C7894B0A03AFF479@eseis06nok> Hello ! I guess the system is same in Europe and US. then imagine if there were exhaust gas recirculation also. Then it would be total flip-flop... In CA models there probably is. If you have not noticed: ************************ Audi 200 20V 3B does not have breather connection from valve cover !!! - my car does not have it - it should be located at the left end of valve cover (3B S2 and ABY S2 have it !) S2 model have it for some reason. This can be seen from the ETKA spare parts listing ! (see my picture link http://www.egroups.com/files/Audi20V_Kruemmer/Crank_bre_3B.ppt ) Tommy > -----Original Message----- > From: EXT Kneale Brownson [mailto:knotnook@traverse.com] > Sent: 02. November 2000 15:02 > To: Phil Rose; Brett Dikeman > Cc: 200q20v maillist@audifans; tommy.arnberg@nokia.com > Subject: Re: [200q20v] Audi 20V Turbo Crankcase Breather System Tuning > > > Aren't most of our (US) boost enhancements more or less > efforts to make the > engines perform the way they were designed for other markets? > Did Audi > include in its US designs a different crankcase pressure > regulator than in > the engines we've tried to emulate? Do those "other" engines > use the same > air filtration as "ours"? > > > At 12:08 AM 11/02/2000 -0500, Phil Rose wrote: > > > > > > >My own naive view is that you need to maintain a closed loop > and just take > >out as much oil as possible from the crankcase air flow > before it reaches > >the MAF, turbo, IC, MM-hose or IM. Seems to me that the > "vented" approach > >will have inherent problems (unmetered air, carbon canister > fumes, etc.) > > > >An important preliminary step was indicated by Chris, which > is to establish > >whether or not the oem crankcase pressure regulator is at fault if > >excessive quantities of oil are observed to coat > (contaminate) the intake > >tract. Possibilities are (1) that the crankcase pressure regulator is > >simply defective, or (2) that if not defective it is > inadequate; that is, > >that minimum breather pathway (0.180" dia aperture) through the > >regulator--when seeing turbo-intake vacuum--is simply too > large for boost > >levels that exceed the stock 1.8 bar design. > > > >One further question that comes to mind is: to what extent is a > >crankcase-breather problem caused by an air filter that's > too restrictive > >(e.g., too dirty)? I raise this point since the turbo > intake-tract vacuum > >(which is what pulls in the crankcase gases) ought to be be > significantly > >impacted by the airbox/cleaner restriction, right? Hence, I > wonder if the > >people who use K&N air filters (and have boost mods) > experience less severe > >"contamination" from the crankcase breather, since wouldn't they be > >operating with a lower vacuum at the turbo intake? > > > >Phil > From C1J1Miller at aol.com Thu Nov 2 08:07:39 2000 From: C1J1Miller at aol.com (C1J1Miller@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Audi 20V Turbo Crankcase Breather System Tuning Message-ID: <9c.8b7a7eb.2732c11b@aol.com> In a message dated 11/2/00 8:02:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, knotnook@traverse.com writes: > Aren't most of our (US) boost enhancements more or less efforts to make the > engines perform the way they were designed for other markets? Did Audi > include in its US designs a different crankcase pressure regulator than in > the engines we've tried to emulate? Do those "other" engines use the same > air filtration as "ours"? Nah, the overseas 200q20v had virtually the same performance as the USA version. chris From tommy.arnberg at nokia.com Thu Nov 2 15:14:08 2000 From: tommy.arnberg at nokia.com (tommy.arnberg@nokia.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Audi 20V Turbo Crankcase HP Message-ID: <0B3F42CA1FB6D2118FE50008C7894B0A03AFF47A@eseis06nok> 217 vs. 220 HP ? Tommy > -----Original Message----- > From: EXT C1J1Miller@aol.com [mailto:C1J1Miller@aol.com] > Sent: 02. November 2000 15:08 > To: knotnook@traverse.com; pjrose@frontiernet.net; > brett@pdikeman.ne.mediaone.net > Cc: 200q20v@audifans.com; tommy.arnberg@nokia.com > Subject: Re: [200q20v] Audi 20V Turbo Crankcase Breather System Tuning > > > In a message dated 11/2/00 8:02:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, > knotnook@traverse.com writes: > > > Aren't most of our (US) boost enhancements more or less > efforts to make the > > engines perform the way they were designed for other > markets? Did Audi > > include in its US designs a different crankcase pressure > regulator than in > > the engines we've tried to emulate? Do those "other" > engines use the same > > air filtration as "ours"? > > > Nah, the overseas 200q20v had virtually the same performance > as the USA > version. > chris > From rbwinchell at yahoo.com Thu Nov 2 08:10:35 2000 From: rbwinchell at yahoo.com (Rob Winchell) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Hydr. hose again Message-ID: <20001102161035.55188.qmail@web220.mail.yahoo.com> I've decided to replace my leaking power steering hose, with all this talk about it lately and me coming out of denial that it needs to be done (again). Anywho, does someone have the part# handy? And for those that recently got one, what did you pay and where did you get it? Sorry I was not paying attention the first time this was mentioned. Rob Winchell 91 200q20v __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? From pjrose at frontiernet.net Thu Nov 2 12:53:44 2000 From: pjrose at frontiernet.net (Phil Rose) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Hydr. hose again In-Reply-To: <20001102161035.55188.qmail@web220.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: At 11:10 AM -0500 11/2/00, Rob Winchell wrote: >I've decided to replace my leaking power steering >hose, with all this talk about it lately and me coming >out of denial that it needs to be done (again). > >Anywho, does someone have the part# handy? And for >those that recently got one, what did you pay and >where did you get it? > >Sorry I was not paying attention the first time this >was mentioned. > >Rob Winchell >91 200q20v Rob, I don't know if Chris has yet put any of my recent steering hose saga on his website. I'll send you copies privately so as to avoid unecessary duplication of unecssary duplication of unecessary dupli..... Phil ********************************* * Phil & Judy Rose Rochester, NY * * mailto:pjrose@frontiernet.net * ********************************* From C1J1Miller at aol.com Thu Nov 2 13:04:31 2000 From: C1J1Miller at aol.com (C1J1Miller@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Hydr. hose again Message-ID: In a message dated Thu, 2 Nov 2000 12:58:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, Phil Rose writes: Rob, I don't know if Chris has yet put any of my recent steering hose saga on his website. I'll send you copies privately so as to avoid unecessary duplication of unecssary duplication of unecessary dupli..... Phil >> Nah, no real updates lately, other than that new review. chris From mikemilr at blackfoot.net Thu Nov 2 11:27:28 2000 From: mikemilr at blackfoot.net (Mike Miller) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Tranny from Germany Message-ID: <004601c044fa$8fa8efe0$5a22200c@mike> Yesterday, I picked up my transmission that I ordered through Robert Braunschweig in Germany ( rbraun@transtec.de ). I though I would share my experience with the list in case anyone else needs/wants to get parts through Robert. Overall, the experience was pretty painless. I sent Robert an email on Oct 5th. I expressed an interest and let him know that I was in a hurry to get the tranny. Robert called me within about an hour and gave me the details (which he followed up with in an email) of what needed to be done and what the process was. I wired the money to him that afternoon. For some reason that I don't know, the German banks hold the wired money for a week before making it available to the account holder so nothing happened for a week. It took another week or so for Robert to get the tranny and get it crated, then a couple days for the shipper to pick it up. I would say expect the whole process to take 3-4 weeks. I had an extra few days added on due to my schedule and NorthWest Airlines trying to send it to the wrong place. A quick phone call had it heading in the right direction. I talked to the customs people at my airport of choice (Great Falls, Montana) as to what was required to import the tranny. They were very helpful and it sounded pretty easy to do so I elected to do my own customs work versus paying the shipper $125 to do it for me. As it turned out, the duty/fees were $4.50 and customs told me to just forget it ( not worth their time to process) so there was no paperwork at all. By picking up the tranny at the airport and doing my own customs work, I estimate I saved in the range of $250-$300. Robert built a very nice crate ( 3/4 plywood) on top of a pallet to ship the tranny in and it arrived with the tranny tied down in place. The only suprise was that I (and Robert) thought the shipping was prepaid, (he uses his company to ship thru) but when it arrived, it came freight collect and I had to pay the shipping charges of ~$190. My understanding was that Robert would contact me with the shipping charges when he received the bill and I would reimburse him. This way seemed easier to me and saved me having to do another international wire. Robert and the shipper (panalpina) were pretty responsive to any of my inquiries - especially considering the time zone differences. I usually had a reply back within 24hrs. No affliation - just a happy customer. The tranny goes in tomorrow, not a moment too soon as the Montana weather is looking like cold and snow. mike miller ready to quattro it in the snow. From maxesales at home.com Thu Nov 2 12:58:11 2000 From: maxesales at home.com (Max Conover) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Tranny from Germany Message-ID: <3A01AB32.4FA6C45D@home.com> Mike, How much was the tranny ? And question to the list and Chris. Are these trannies prone to failure ? Or at what milage do they give out ? Thanks, Max From mikemilr at blackfoot.net Thu Nov 2 12:20:23 2000 From: mikemilr at blackfoot.net (Mike Miller) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Tranny from Germany References: <3A01AB32.4FA6C45D@home.com> Message-ID: <005601c04501$f3ca9e40$5a22200c@mike> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Max Conover" : Mike, : : How much was the tranny ? : : And question to the list and Chris. Are these trannies prone to failure : ? Or at what milage do they give out ? : : Thanks, : Max Max, The price I paid was $700 + shipping. I thought I heard a couple years ago that a new tranny from the dealer was like $6000. I had problems when I purchased the car around 75k miles with the tranny being hard to get into 2nd gear. I purchased a 36/36k warranty when I got the car and at 108k on the clock I had them replace 2nd gear and the synchro under warranty. Within 500 miles, 5th gear started grinding and needed a new synchro. The dealer that had done the 2nd gear work paid a local shop ( I had moved in the interim) to fix 5th gear. 14 months later, I started to develope a growl, most noticeable in 1st and 2nd under de-celleration. I had it looked at, and on the rack, you could here the growl in all gears at all times. Best guess was the input shaft bearing going and the tranny oil did have fine metallic particles in it. I decided it was easier just to spend the money and get a new tranny rather than trying a 3rd internal fix on mine. I figure total cost for the new tranny installed will be around $1400 - well less than the price of a used tranny a year or so ago. I also ran Redline oil in the tranny from about 75k. As far as I know, the trannies are historically "finicky" about 2nd gear although mine was perfect after new parts installed. I don't know of any others that have had problems with 5th gear. mike miller From fussball_3 at hotmail.com Thu Nov 2 20:09:57 2000 From: fussball_3 at hotmail.com (-J J-) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Need a wheel Message-ID: Alright guys, I almost got in an accident, and it was not my fault. It scared the crap out of me though. I was turning left onto a busy street (there was a trafic light at the intersection and it was green for me) and it had just rained briefly, and there were a ton of leaves on the ground, so it was very slippery. The person closest to me going the other way (it was a two lane road, they were on that busy road in the inside lane) started pulling forward, even though their light was still red. They were within about one foot of my car, and it startled me, i pushed down the acclerator, and broke traction, my car swung, and i straightened it, but it kept going, and i hit the curb with a lot of force, and bent my wheel. Luckily, that was all that happened, as far as i can tell. But this means that i need a new wheel, or i need to straighten my current one. Anyy suggestions, any one with an extra wheel they are willing to sell? I live in Michigan, so is there anyone close? Happy I have an undented 200, but really shaken up, John Gronberg Jr. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From Brian.Link at Level3.com Thu Nov 2 16:01:56 2000 From: Brian.Link at Level3.com (Brian.Link@Level3.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Fun with Audi problems Message-ID: <59BABB2C32D6D211B37400805FA719E3025CCD7F@l3goldmail01.l3.com> All Well after owning my 91 200 for 7 months, I wanted to report to the list the things I have fixed: Bomb replaced all suspension rubber Replaced passenger side e-brake cable Fixed sticky passenger side rear brake caliper Multi function temp sender Speedometer digital warning display Steering wheel center section And last weekend I repaired the multiple broken wires in the passenger door hinge. I'm afraid to take a look in the drivers door. On the good note no more crackling noises when someone opens the door, and blowing 15a fuses. What is next? Oh yea my blower motor started to squeak. Brian Link Boulder, CO From John.Chaplen at us.wmmercer.com Thu Nov 2 17:17:20 2000 From: John.Chaplen at us.wmmercer.com (Chaplen, John ) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Fun with Audi problems Message-ID: Hey, Maybe we could have a contest to see who has fixed the most things in the past year... For me... Radiator Hose from radiator to block (3 weeks later) Top intercooloer hose High pressure steering hose 2 window switches 3 interior bulbs Oil cap Driverside doorlock assemble Front shocks (Also just got H&R springs) 1 Turbo (From lower hose popping off - check it say once a month) 1 TBPV Rear Crank case ventilation hose new windshield (from a rock - don't really count) And still need a steering rack..YUK! JP -----Original Message----- From: Brian.Link@Level3.com [mailto:Brian.Link@Level3.com] Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 3:02 PM To: 200q20v@audifans.com Subject: [200q20v] Fun with Audi problems All Well after owning my 91 200 for 7 months, I wanted to report to the list the things I have fixed: Bomb replaced all suspension rubber Replaced passenger side e-brake cable Fixed sticky passenger side rear brake caliper Multi function temp sender Speedometer digital warning display Steering wheel center section And last weekend I repaired the multiple broken wires in the passenger door hinge. I'm afraid to take a look in the drivers door. On the good note no more crackling noises when someone opens the door, and blowing 15a fuses. What is next? Oh yea my blower motor started to squeak. Brian Link Boulder, CO _______________________________________________ 200q20v mailing list 200q20v@audifans.com http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail and any attachments may be confidential or legally privileged. If you received this message in error or are not the intended recipient, you should destroy the e-mail message and any attachments or copies, and you are prohibited from retaining, distributing disclosing or using any information contained herein. Please inform us of the erroneous delivery by return e-mail. Thank you for your cooperation. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Mike.Sylvester at sycamorenet.com Thu Nov 2 18:44:44 2000 From: Mike.Sylvester at sycamorenet.com (Sylvester, Mike) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Fun with Audi problems Message-ID: <5B38C8A7BD6AD311A1BC009027B6C2247E0810@pine.sycamorenet.com> This stuff will probably clog our inboxes, but what the hell... This year on the 200q20vt avant I had to replace the following due to the previous owner's accident: Hood r/l fenders bumper cover and reinforcement l frame section l headlight grill and chrome trim core support intercooler radiator aux radiator Someone else did the painting, I did everything else. 1/22/00 222,510 W/P idler pulley Fresh phosphate phree coolant I would have replaced the timing belt, but it was done at 218,000 and I didn't have what it takes to remove the crank pulley. Oil and filter Air Filter rear hatch shocks 3/12/00 223,000 Spark plugs Dist Cap Ign Rotor (correct Euro rotor) Front struts (boge turbo gas) 3/19/00 233,333 Rear shocks (boge gas) rear springs (O.E.) leather shift knob 3/25/00 233,500 subframe bushings rt trans mount swaybar bushings right and left front tierod ends 5/6/00 Replaced radiator 5/13/00 226,666 Replaced Trans fluid Replaced Rear Diff fluid Replaced vacuum hose from the intake to the turbo bypass valve. Replaced the short crankcase breather hose at the back of the intake to the pipe under the intake pipe. Changed engine oil and filter Replaced rt front spring and strut bearing. (not enought time to do the left side)Springs are used from Jeff Donnely. 6/4/00 227,255 Replaced all 4 brake hoses with s/s braided lines Flushed brake fluid and replaced with ATE super blue Replaced OXS Replaced fuel filter Installed OEM CD changer. Not yet operational. 7/1/00 228,400 Installed Relayed Euro healights. Installed upgraded ECU from Anderson Motorsport. 8/00 Replaced the multi-function temp sensor Finished installing the CD changer Replaced the strut tower bushings Replaced TBV with 993 part Replaced rear defogger switch Replaced Lf front spring and shock boot Replaced front seats with sport seats Replaced the vacuum hose to TBV with copper tubing I'm sure there is stuff I forgot here. Last year on my 86 5kcstq 187,157 miles I bought this car as a project. I have only driven it ~20 miles, but have done the following: water pump timing belt timing belt tensioner welded ehxaust front pipe welded exhaust manifold exhaust manifold studs (5 were broken) head gasket (took off head to replace studs) exhaust gaskets valve cover gasket intake gasket front crank seal spark plugs spark plug wires dist. cap and rotor battery radiator upper radatior hose turbo oil hose gaskets and studs fuel injector o-rings, seats, seals repaired stitching on drivers leather seat right and left hand brake cables intake boot crankcase breather hoses airfilter fuel filter upgraded rear brakes to vented rotors calipers from wagon (used) repaired broken wires from body to drivers door removed A/C compressor and condensor altenator belt p/s belt removed cruise control 2/15/99 repair wires in right door jam change fluid in transmission change fluid in rear diff. 3/6/99 Replace WOT switch upgrade front brakes to G60 dual piston calipers replace all brake hoses with braided stainless steel (DOT) purged entire brake system and replaced fluid with ATE super blue 3/13/99 Ignition dist. was making a squeeling noise, so I replaced it with a used one. Unclogged the Windshield washer system Re-wired the secondary light in the headlight to a dual filiment bulb and moved the directionals into that location. This will free up the location in the bumper for driving lights. Power window relay was flaky. Would make clicking noise and the windows would sometimes not work. I opened the relay and touched up some of the solder joints. Now works OK. 3/20/99 189,000 miles Repaired broken knock sensor wire. (was reporting fault 2142) replaced wastegate frequency valve (with used one)due to low boost (1.2bar) repaired (again) front exhaust flange. Used a 3 piece GM flange. Had to make a sleeve to go around the pipe, since the flange was for a 2.5" pipe. 3/27/99 Replaced front struts Boge turbo gas Replaced front springs (stock) Replaced front strut tower bushings Replaced front strut tower bearings Replaced all 4 sub-frame bushings Replaced sway bar bushings Replaced Rt. front lower control arm inner bushing Replaced all 4 front lower control arm outer bushings Replaced both front tierod ends Installed piece of rubber tube over tierod adjustments and tiewrapped Broke the connector on the back of the ign dist 4/3/99 189,500 miles Replaced rear struts with Sach super gas Replaced rear springs (stock) Replaced left transmission mount Replaced left lower control arm 4/10/99 189,500 Installed steering dampener "Upgraded" trunk lid to 89 200 style 4/24/99 190,500 replaced O2 Sensor 5/15/99 191,000 Started headlight relay upgrade 6/12/99 191,500 Finished headlight relay upgrade Oil change I noticed that the thermostat is leaking. 7/3/99 Replaced the thermostat o-ring. -----Original Message----- From: Chaplen, John [mailto:John.Chaplen@us.wmmercer.com] Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 6:17 PM To: 'Brian.Link@Level3.com'; 200q20v@audifans.com Subject: RE: [200q20v] Fun with Audi problems Hey, Maybe we could have a contest to see who has fixed the most things in the past year... For me... Radiator Hose from radiator to block (3 weeks later) Top intercooloer hose High pressure steering hose 2 window switches 3 interior bulbs Oil cap Driverside doorlock assemble Front shocks (Also just got H&R springs) 1 Turbo (From lower hose popping off - check it say once a month) 1 TBPV Rear Crank case ventilation hose new windshield (from a rock - don't really count) And still need a steering rack..YUK! JP -----Original Message----- From: Brian.Link@Level3.com [mailto:Brian.Link@Level3.com] Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 3:02 PM To: 200q20v@audifans.com Subject: [200q20v] Fun with Audi problems All Well after owning my 91 200 for 7 months, I wanted to report to the list the things I have fixed: Bomb replaced all suspension rubber Replaced passenger side e-brake cable Fixed sticky passenger side rear brake caliper Multi function temp sender Speedometer digital warning display Steering wheel center section And last weekend I repaired the multiple broken wires in the passenger door hinge. I'm afraid to take a look in the drivers door. On the good note no more crackling noises when someone opens the door, and blowing 15a fuses. What is next? Oh yea my blower motor started to squeak. Brian Link Boulder, CO _______________________________________________ 200q20v mailing list 200q20v@audifans.com http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail and any attachments may be confidential or legally privileged. If you received this message in error or are not the intended recipient, you should destroy the e-mail message and any attachments or copies, and you are prohibited from retaining, distributing disclosing or using any information contained herein. Please inform us of the erroneous delivery by return e-mail. Thank you for your cooperation. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ 200q20v mailing list 200q20v@audifans.com http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From sbhack at attglobal.net Thu Nov 2 21:21:56 2000 From: sbhack at attglobal.net (Steve Hackett) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Fun with Audi problems In-Reply-To: <59BABB2C32D6D211B37400805FA719E3025CCD7F@l3goldmail01.l3.c om> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001102210116.02b07de0@127.0.0.1> Excellent .... I have three Audi's, had 4 for a short time, I think they are an excellent value even if our '91 20v is approaching 10 years old. I enjoy working on them and expect things to wear out and/or go bad after 10 years and 100k+ miles (even though my 20v just turned 84k), it is a fact of life - they are only just machines. Certainly there are some quirks and common failures but again, they are only just machines, the art is in managing what to replace and when. The '91 200 20v is merely a dot in the long Audi time line (one of the peaks I think) - for costing $44k when new I gladly keep mine and budget an easy $300 a month (averaged of course) for maintenance(excluding upgrades/mods). I've come to the conclusion that either way - you pay, for a new car you don't have maintenance costs but there are taxes and/or finance charges to pay. Clearly, this email list is a great resource and there's much more out there. I love running around in a car that is a blast to drive and I know all it's in and outs as well as inner workings. I continue to see many '86 and up Audi's for sale and I think it's because they are one of a very few cars that are viable approaching 15 years old! The bottom-line dilemma is the book value with regards to insurance. I'm talking to a few companies about an enhanced value coverage - much like specifying a replacement cost for a home. keep the faith. At 04:01 PM 11/2/00 -0700, you wrote: >All >Well after owning my 91 200 for 7 months, I wanted to report to the list >the things I have fixed: > >Bomb >replaced all suspension rubber >Replaced passenger side e-brake cable >Fixed sticky passenger side rear brake caliper >Multi function temp sender >Speedometer >digital warning display >Steering wheel center section > >And last weekend I repaired the multiple broken wires in the passenger door >hinge. I'm afraid to take a look in the drivers door. >On the good note no more crackling noises when someone opens the door, and >blowing 15a fuses. > >What is next? > >Oh yea my blower motor started to squeak. > >Brian Link >Boulder, CO >_______________________________________________ >200q20v mailing list >200q20v@audifans.com >http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From sbhack at attglobal.net Thu Nov 2 21:28:46 2000 From: sbhack at attglobal.net (Steve Hackett) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] 20v Avant FS Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001102212351.02b06eb0@127.0.0.1> '91 200 20v Avant turbo/quattro. Early '91 production w/logo, 145k miles, 2nd owner - previously older couple. Clean in and out, Teal w/Tan interior, no modifications. Asking $12,500, Middletown, RI (401) ........ This is a friend of mine, I've seen the car and it's clean. In addition to being previously owned by an older lady, the car has been without boost for the past 2 years!, it's probably just a valve or hose. The colors are great. Anyone interested, I will put in touch. I'd snatch it up but my garage is full now (damn!). From sbhack at attglobal.net Thu Nov 2 21:54:59 2000 From: sbhack at attglobal.net (Steve Hackett) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Audi 20V Turbo Crankcase Breather System Tuning, - some hel p found In-Reply-To: <0B3F42CA1FB6D2118FE50008C7894B0A03AFF450@eseis06nok> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001102215231.02b06180@127.0.0.1> I haven't investigated this too much but might this be a cure? http://www.walkerairsep.com/how/ At 10:43 AM 11/1/00 +0200, you wrote: >Hello ! > >THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IS THAT WITH HIGH >BOOST THE CRANKCASE OIL/AIR MIXTURE FLOW GETS INTO THE >INLET VALVES AND STICKS TO THE VALVE SURFACE >AND AFTER LONGER HARD USE THE INLET VALVES ARE PROBABLY NOT >94% TO 97% TIGHT ANY MORE ! > >---> this means lower HP and higher fuel consumption ! > >Breather Medicine seems to be allready quite close: >http://www.martelbros.com/stefs/23.htm > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: EXT Phil Rose [mailto:pjrose@frontiernet.net] > > Sent: 31. October 2000 18:56 > > To: C1J1Miller@aol.com > > Cc: tommy.arnberg@nokia.com; ouellette@snet.net; > > birabrakes@egroups.com; > > 200q20v@audifans.com > > Subject: Re: [200q20v] Re: [birabrakes] Audi 20V Turbo Crankcase > > Breather System Tuning, help neede d ! > > > > > > This sounds exactly like the "problem" I recently posted on > > the 200q20v > > list. My Michelin Man hose quite suddenly has started collecting large > > amounts of oil (well, OK teaspoons full) very soon after my ecu chip > > upgrade was done. Totally dry before that. I suspected the crankcase > > breather as the source and thought it might be a defective pressure > > regulator valve. Right now I'd say that my MM hose is acting as the > > "settling tank", but obviously we'd all be much better off to have oil > > condense before reaching the IC, MM or IM. > > > > In normal spirited street driving, the oil from my car that's > > "lost" this > > way appears to amount to no more than 1/2 qt in 2-3K miles. That upper > > limit assumes none of the total drop in oil level is from from other > > reasons (burning, etc). But in any case it makes a mess of > > the MM hose and > > I'd like find a fix, if possible. Perhaps there's room for a "settling > > tank" to be fitted in the breather hose line near the > > right/rear corner of > > the engine just before the cranckcase pressure regulator > > valve. In fact, > > possibly the high-pressure washer bracket could be used to > > secure it. Seems > > all it would take is two short lengths of rubber hose, 4 clamps and an > > appropriate container. But would it stay cool enough back > > there to condense > > most of the oil? > > > > Phil R. > > > > > > At 9:24 AM -0500 10/31/00, C1J1Miller@aol.com wrote: > > >In a message dated Tue, 31 Oct 2000 6:40:05 AM Eastern > > Standard Time, > > >tommy.arnberg@nokia.com writes: > > > > > ><< > > >Hello ! > > > > > >As you all know the breather system is closed > > >and when boost is a little higher than stock, > > >then the crankcase ventilation system in 3B > > >engine (200 20V) pushes the polluted oily air fume back > > >to Turbo charger "mouth" > > > > > >- conceguences: > > > * fuel octane rating in mixture to be burned gets lower > > > * Inter cooler cooling ability gets worse because of > > oil-air fume > > > * the inlet valves get burned oil build up (the worst of all) > > > * air into engine gets warme > > >=============== > > >The operation of the crankcase breather hose is explained in > > detail on Scott > > >Mockry's excellent (as always) pages, here: > > >http://www.sjmautotechnik.com/20vboost.html#hose > > > > > >"This breather hose is routed around the back of the engine > > and one end > > >connects to the round black crankcase pressure > > > regulator valve near the back of the valve cover. This > > black regulator > > >valve, controls the flow of crankcase fumes to the turbo > > > intake boot. The valve has two ports inside, one is > > approximately 0.400 > > >diameter and a smaller one that is approximately > > > 0.180 inches. The larger port and the smaller port are > > open during low > > >boost operation but when the turbo makes enough > > > boost and flows enough air to produce a vacuum on the > > suction side of > > >the turbo, the regulator valve diaphragm sucks closed > > > and blocks off the larger port. This leaves only the > > smaller port open > > >to flow crankcase breather fumes. " > > > > > >There is more, including a diagram, but the basics are that > > the breather is > > >mostly closed off during higher boost conditions. > > >====================== > > > > > > > > >The Gastank ventilation is operated with the > > >"Blue valve" to inlet manifold. The piping has a > > >valve that prevents back flow from inlet manifold during boost > > >condition and during vacuum it sucks the air from crank case and > > >through the blue valve from gas tank ventilation system. > > > > > >Has anyone disconnected / modified the stock system following > > >way or better way ? what is the right way. (I know this is not > > >legal but otherwise the engine gets older a lot faster !) > > > > > >[ Crank_breath.ppt ] > > > > > >If someone knows good product that solves this problem, > > >please mail www-pages and/or source for it ! > > > > > >rgs, > > >Tommy > > > >> > > > > > >Looks to me like you want an oil collector system to limit > > oily vapor from > > >being combusted. I've seen other turbo cars install a > > "settling tank" where > > >the vapor can collect, condense, and later be drained... > > > > > >Tommy: can you store that file somewhere that the 200q20v > > owners can access > > >it? > > > > > >On my car, with 5000 mile oil intervals, I burn very little > > measurable oil; > > >perhaps 1/2 quart at most? > > >chris > > From pos at theinternet.de Fri Nov 3 08:49:53 2000 From: pos at theinternet.de (Peer Oliver Schmidt (the internet company)) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: AW: [200q20v] Fun with Audi problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Hey, Maybe we could have a contest to see who has fixed the most >things in the past year... Money wise, I might very well be the winner: * New 3B Engine, new turbo (together around DM 22000,-- ~ US$ 10k) * New UFO disks and pads * New air condition (still waiting for the pieces) * New transmission (that was cheap [from Rob Braun]) currently not installed, just sitting in the garage, waiting for the other tranny to go bad. Let's see, who can beat this? Have a good weekend. rgds pos From tommy.arnberg at nokia.com Fri Nov 3 10:37:29 2000 From: tommy.arnberg at nokia.com (tommy.arnberg@nokia.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Audi 20V Turbo Crankcase Breather S.... NI CE LINK Message-ID: <0B3F42CA1FB6D2118FE50008C7894B0A03AFF47F@eseis06nok> Hi ! This looks very promising ! THANKS Steve !!! Tommy PS. How did you find the link ? > -----Original Message----- > From: EXT Steve Hackett [mailto:sbhack@attglobal.net] > Sent: 03. November 2000 4:55 > To: 200q20v@audifans.com > Cc: tommy.arnberg@nokia.com > Subject: Re: [200q20v] Audi 20V Turbo Crankcase Breather > System Tuning, > - some hel p found > > > I haven't investigated this too much but might this be a cure? > http://www.walkerairsep.com/how/ > > At 10:43 AM 11/1/00 +0200, you wrote: > >Hello ! > > > >THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IS THAT WITH HIGH > >BOOST THE CRANKCASE OIL/AIR MIXTURE FLOW GETS INTO THE > >INLET VALVES AND STICKS TO THE VALVE SURFACE > >AND AFTER LONGER HARD USE THE INLET VALVES ARE PROBABLY NOT > >94% TO 97% TIGHT ANY MORE ! > > > >---> this means lower HP and higher fuel consumption ! > > > >Breather Medicine seems to be allready quite close: > >http://www.martelbros.com/stefs/23.htm > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: EXT Phil Rose [mailto:pjrose@frontiernet.net] > > > Sent: 31. October 2000 18:56 > > > To: C1J1Miller@aol.com > > > Cc: tommy.arnberg@nokia.com; ouellette@snet.net; > > > birabrakes@egroups.com; > > > 200q20v@audifans.com > > > Subject: Re: [200q20v] Re: [birabrakes] Audi 20V Turbo Crankcase > > > Breather System Tuning, help neede d ! > > > > > > > > > This sounds exactly like the "problem" I recently posted on > > > the 200q20v > > > list. My Michelin Man hose quite suddenly has started > collecting large > > > amounts of oil (well, OK teaspoons full) very soon after > my ecu chip > > > upgrade was done. Totally dry before that. I suspected > the crankcase > > > breather as the source and thought it might be a > defective pressure > > > regulator valve. Right now I'd say that my MM hose is > acting as the > > > "settling tank", but obviously we'd all be much better > off to have oil > > > condense before reaching the IC, MM or IM. > > > > > > In normal spirited street driving, the oil from my car that's > > > "lost" this > > > way appears to amount to no more than 1/2 qt in 2-3K > miles. That upper > > > limit assumes none of the total drop in oil level is from > from other > > > reasons (burning, etc). But in any case it makes a mess of > > > the MM hose and > > > I'd like find a fix, if possible. Perhaps there's room > for a "settling > > > tank" to be fitted in the breather hose line near the > > > right/rear corner of > > > the engine just before the cranckcase pressure regulator > > > valve. In fact, > > > possibly the high-pressure washer bracket could be used to > > > secure it. Seems > > > all it would take is two short lengths of rubber hose, 4 > clamps and an > > > appropriate container. But would it stay cool enough back > > > there to condense > > > most of the oil? > > > > > > Phil R. > > > > > > > > > At 9:24 AM -0500 10/31/00, C1J1Miller@aol.com wrote: > > > >In a message dated Tue, 31 Oct 2000 6:40:05 AM Eastern > > > Standard Time, > > > >tommy.arnberg@nokia.com writes: > > > > > > > ><< > > > >Hello ! > > > > > > > >As you all know the breather system is closed > > > >and when boost is a little higher than stock, > > > >then the crankcase ventilation system in 3B > > > >engine (200 20V) pushes the polluted oily air fume back > > > >to Turbo charger "mouth" > > > > > > > >- conceguences: > > > > * fuel octane rating in mixture to be burned gets lower > > > > * Inter cooler cooling ability gets worse because of > > > oil-air fume > > > > * the inlet valves get burned oil build up (the > worst of all) > > > > * air into engine gets warme > > > >=============== > > > >The operation of the crankcase breather hose is explained in > > > detail on Scott > > > >Mockry's excellent (as always) pages, here: > > > >http://www.sjmautotechnik.com/20vboost.html#hose > > > > > > > >"This breather hose is routed around the back of the engine > > > and one end > > > >connects to the round black crankcase pressure > > > > regulator valve near the back of the valve cover. This > > > black regulator > > > >valve, controls the flow of crankcase fumes to the turbo > > > > intake boot. The valve has two ports inside, one is > > > approximately 0.400 > > > >diameter and a smaller one that is approximately > > > > 0.180 inches. The larger port and the smaller port are > > > open during low > > > >boost operation but when the turbo makes enough > > > > boost and flows enough air to produce a vacuum on the > > > suction side of > > > >the turbo, the regulator valve diaphragm sucks closed > > > > and blocks off the larger port. This leaves only the > > > smaller port open > > > >to flow crankcase breather fumes. " > > > > > > > >There is more, including a diagram, but the basics are that > > > the breather is > > > >mostly closed off during higher boost conditions. > > > >====================== > > > > > > > > > > > >The Gastank ventilation is operated with the > > > >"Blue valve" to inlet manifold. The piping has a > > > >valve that prevents back flow from inlet manifold during boost > > > >condition and during vacuum it sucks the air from crank case and > > > >through the blue valve from gas tank ventilation system. > > > > > > > >Has anyone disconnected / modified the stock system following > > > >way or better way ? what is the right way. (I know this is not > > > >legal but otherwise the engine gets older a lot faster !) > > > > > > > >[ Crank_breath.ppt ] > > > > > > > >If someone knows good product that solves this problem, > > > >please mail www-pages and/or source for it ! > > > > > > > >rgs, > > > >Tommy > > > > >> > > > > > > > >Looks to me like you want an oil collector system to limit > > > oily vapor from > > > >being combusted. I've seen other turbo cars install a > > > "settling tank" where > > > >the vapor can collect, condense, and later be drained... > > > > > > > >Tommy: can you store that file somewhere that the 200q20v > > > owners can access > > > >it? > > > > > > > >On my car, with 5000 mile oil intervals, I burn very little > > > measurable oil; > > > >perhaps 1/2 quart at most? > > > >chris > > > > From tommy.arnberg at nokia.com Fri Nov 3 11:49:25 2000 From: tommy.arnberg at nokia.com (tommy.arnberg@nokia.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Audi 20V Turbo Crankcase Breather S.... Good closed system possible ? link to be studied ! Message-ID: <0B3F42CA1FB6D2118FE50008C7894B0A03AFF482@eseis06nok> Hello ! In previous threads we discussed about the pros and cons against closed and open breather systems. I stated that it might be difficult to make closed system with good oil/air separation efficiency. http://www.walkerairsep.com/airseps/ This product claims to have efficiency of 90 to 97% if I understood correctly Here might be the closed loop solution for further investigation http://www.walkerairsep.com/airseps/remote.html Link found with the great help of Steve Hackett Who lives close to this company ? 9255 San Fernando Rd. Sun Valley, CA 91352 p (818) 252-7788 f (818) 252-7785 sales@walkerairsep.com ... and has time and energy to call the company and study the products further ? My time difference is 10 hours from Finland time to CA. I have sent a written inquiry to the company via email. rgs, Tommy > > -----Original Message----- > > From: EXT Steve Hackett [mailto:sbhack@attglobal.net] > > Sent: 03. November 2000 4:55 > > To: 200q20v@audifans.com > > Cc: tommy.arnberg@nokia.com > > Subject: Re: [200q20v] Audi 20V Turbo Crankcase Breather > > System Tuning, > > - some hel p found > > > > > > I haven't investigated this too much but might this be a cure? > > http://www.walkerairsep.com/how/ > > > > At 10:43 AM 11/1/00 +0200, you wrote: > > >Hello ! > > > > > >THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IS THAT WITH HIGH > > >BOOST THE CRANKCASE OIL/AIR MIXTURE FLOW GETS INTO THE > > >INLET VALVES AND STICKS TO THE VALVE SURFACE > > >AND AFTER LONGER HARD USE THE INLET VALVES ARE PROBABLY NOT > > >94% TO 97% TIGHT ANY MORE ! > > > > > >---> this means lower HP and higher fuel consumption ! > > > > > >Breather Medicine seems to be allready quite close: > > >http://www.martelbros.com/stefs/23.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: EXT Phil Rose [mailto:pjrose@frontiernet.net] > > > > Sent: 31. October 2000 18:56 > > > > To: C1J1Miller@aol.com > > > > Cc: tommy.arnberg@nokia.com; ouellette@snet.net; > > > > birabrakes@egroups.com; > > > > 200q20v@audifans.com > > > > Subject: Re: [200q20v] Re: [birabrakes] Audi 20V Turbo Crankcase > > > > Breather System Tuning, help neede d ! > > > > > > > > > > > > This sounds exactly like the "problem" I recently posted on > > > > the 200q20v > > > > list. My Michelin Man hose quite suddenly has started > > collecting large > > > > amounts of oil (well, OK teaspoons full) very soon after > > my ecu chip > > > > upgrade was done. Totally dry before that. I suspected > > the crankcase > > > > breather as the source and thought it might be a > > defective pressure > > > > regulator valve. Right now I'd say that my MM hose is > > acting as the > > > > "settling tank", but obviously we'd all be much better > > off to have oil > > > > condense before reaching the IC, MM or IM. > > > > > > > > In normal spirited street driving, the oil from my car that's > > > > "lost" this > > > > way appears to amount to no more than 1/2 qt in 2-3K > > miles. That upper > > > > limit assumes none of the total drop in oil level is from > > from other > > > > reasons (burning, etc). But in any case it makes a mess of > > > > the MM hose and > > > > I'd like find a fix, if possible. Perhaps there's room > > for a "settling > > > > tank" to be fitted in the breather hose line near the > > > > right/rear corner of > > > > the engine just before the cranckcase pressure regulator > > > > valve. In fact, > > > > possibly the high-pressure washer bracket could be used to > > > > secure it. Seems > > > > all it would take is two short lengths of rubber hose, 4 > > clamps and an > > > > appropriate container. But would it stay cool enough back > > > > there to condense > > > > most of the oil? > > > > > > > > Phil R. > > > > > > > > > > > > At 9:24 AM -0500 10/31/00, C1J1Miller@aol.com wrote: > > > > >In a message dated Tue, 31 Oct 2000 6:40:05 AM Eastern > > > > Standard Time, > > > > >tommy.arnberg@nokia.com writes: > > > > > > > > > ><< > > > > >Hello ! > > > > > > > > > >As you all know the breather system is closed > > > > >and when boost is a little higher than stock, > > > > >then the crankcase ventilation system in 3B > > > > >engine (200 20V) pushes the polluted oily air fume back > > > > >to Turbo charger "mouth" > > > > > > > > > >- conceguences: > > > > > * fuel octane rating in mixture to be burned gets lower > > > > > * Inter cooler cooling ability gets worse because of > > > > oil-air fume > > > > > * the inlet valves get burned oil build up (the > > worst of all) > > > > > * air into engine gets warme > > > > >=============== > > > > >The operation of the crankcase breather hose is explained in > > > > detail on Scott > > > > >Mockry's excellent (as always) pages, here: > > > > >http://www.sjmautotechnik.com/20vboost.html#hose > > > > > > > > > >"This breather hose is routed around the back of the engine > > > > and one end > > > > >connects to the round black crankcase pressure > > > > > regulator valve near the back of the valve cover. This > > > > black regulator > > > > >valve, controls the flow of crankcase fumes to the turbo > > > > > intake boot. The valve has two ports inside, one is > > > > approximately 0.400 > > > > >diameter and a smaller one that is approximately > > > > > 0.180 inches. The larger port and the smaller port are > > > > open during low > > > > >boost operation but when the turbo makes enough > > > > > boost and flows enough air to produce a vacuum on the > > > > suction side of > > > > >the turbo, the regulator valve diaphragm sucks closed > > > > > and blocks off the larger port. This leaves only the > > > > smaller port open > > > > >to flow crankcase breather fumes. " > > > > > > > > > >There is more, including a diagram, but the basics are that > > > > the breather is > > > > >mostly closed off during higher boost conditions. > > > > >====================== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >The Gastank ventilation is operated with the > > > > >"Blue valve" to inlet manifold. The piping has a > > > > >valve that prevents back flow from inlet manifold during boost > > > > >condition and during vacuum it sucks the air from > crank case and > > > > >through the blue valve from gas tank ventilation system. > > > > > > > > > >Has anyone disconnected / modified the stock system following > > > > >way or better way ? what is the right way. (I know > this is not > > > > >legal but otherwise the engine gets older a lot faster !) > > > > > > > > > >[ Crank_breath.ppt ] > > > > > > > > > >If someone knows good product that solves this problem, > > > > >please mail www-pages and/or source for it ! > > > > > > > > > >rgs, > > > > >Tommy > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >Looks to me like you want an oil collector system to limit > > > > oily vapor from > > > > >being combusted. I've seen other turbo cars install a > > > > "settling tank" where > > > > >the vapor can collect, condense, and later be drained... > > > > > > > > > >Tommy: can you store that file somewhere that the 200q20v > > > > owners can access > > > > >it? > > > > > > > > > >On my car, with 5000 mile oil intervals, I burn very little > > > > measurable oil; > > > > >perhaps 1/2 quart at most? > > > > >chris > > > > > > > From Brian.Link at Level3.com Fri Nov 3 08:07:46 2000 From: Brian.Link at Level3.com (Brian.Link@Level3.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Fun with Audi problems Message-ID: <59BABB2C32D6D211B37400805FA719E3025CCD86@l3goldmail01.l3.com> Shoot I forgot to add Drivers side window regulator and radiator. Don't get me wrong I love Driving My Audi's 86 Coupe GT and 91 200 tq. I just find it interesting that The same things break on the same cars at about the same time. Brian -----Original Message----- From: Chaplen, John [mailto:John.Chaplen@us.wmmercer.com] Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 4:17 PM To: Link, Brian; 200q20v@audifans.com Subject: RE: [200q20v] Fun with Audi problems Hey, Maybe we could have a contest to see who has fixed the most things in the past year... For me... Radiator Hose from radiator to block (3 weeks later) Top intercooloer hose High pressure steering hose 2 window switches 3 interior bulbs Oil cap Driverside doorlock assemble Front shocks (Also just got H&R springs) 1 Turbo (From lower hose popping off - check it say once a month) 1 TBPV Rear Crank case ventilation hose new windshield (from a rock - don't really count) And still need a steering rack..YUK! JP -----Original Message----- From: Brian.Link@Level3.com [mailto:Brian.Link@Level3.com] Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 3:02 PM To: 200q20v@audifans.com Subject: [200q20v] Fun with Audi problems All Well after owning my 91 200 for 7 months, I wanted to report to the list the things I have fixed: Bomb replaced all suspension rubber Replaced passenger side e-brake cable Fixed sticky passenger side rear brake caliper Multi function temp sender Speedometer digital warning display Steering wheel center section And last weekend I repaired the multiple broken wires in the passenger door hinge. I'm afraid to take a look in the drivers door. On the good note no more crackling noises when someone opens the door, and blowing 15a fuses. What is next? Oh yea my blower motor started to squeak. Brian Link Boulder, CO _______________________________________________ 200q20v mailing list 200q20v@audifans.com http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail and any attachments may be confidential or legally privileged. If you received this message in error or are not the intended recipient, you should destroy the e-mail message and any attachments or copies, and you are prohibited from retaining, distributing disclosing or using any information contained herein. Please inform us of the erroneous delivery by return e-mail. Thank you for your cooperation. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From prl at ptc.com Fri Nov 3 10:17:24 2000 From: prl at ptc.com (Paul R Luevano) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Cleaning Engine Message-ID: <3A02D704.4DB0E72A@ptc.com> OK, I know I have a Pentosin leak, some other oil type leak, and now it looks like I have a coolant leak. What is the best way to clean the engine and engine bay in the 200's? I want to clean the engine really, really well, and then hopefully locate where I'm loosing all the fluids from so I can fix. I just know that our engines can be really, really finicky about washing, I don't want to make things worse by waching! TIA! -- ____________________________________________________________________ Paul Luevano | AMA #418487 |'99 CBR 600F4 (Racebike) http://teamdaemon.com | USM * CCS #898|'97 CBR 1100XX (Streetbike) Waltham, MA USA | NMA #116657 |'91 200TQ20V (Winter) ________"Man's purpose is to live, not to exist."-Jack London_______ From pwaterloo at compuserve.com Fri Nov 3 09:18:43 2000 From: pwaterloo at compuserve.com (Paul Waterloo) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Fun with Audi problems References: <59BABB2C32D6D211B37400805FA719E3025CCD86@l3goldmail01.l3.com> Message-ID: <021401c045a9$5b07c7c0$6a43b618@elmhst1.il.home.com> It is amazing how many radiators have gone out in the last year -- chalk one up for me! I've also done UFO and pads.....and some other stuff! Paul (214K miles) _____________________________________________________ Paul Waterloo Applied Energy Services Phone 708-524-9464 Fax 708-524-0079 Voicemail/pager 888-962-7304 pwaterloo@compuserve.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; <200q20v@audifans.com> Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 9:07 AM Subject: RE: [200q20v] Fun with Audi problems > > Shoot I forgot to add Drivers side window regulator and radiator. > > Don't get me wrong I love Driving My Audi's 86 Coupe GT and 91 200 tq. > > I just find it interesting that The same things break on the same cars at > about the same time. > > Brian > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chaplen, John [mailto:John.Chaplen@us.wmmercer.com] > Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 4:17 PM > To: Link, Brian; 200q20v@audifans.com > Subject: RE: [200q20v] Fun with Audi problems > > > > Hey, Maybe we could have a contest to see who has fixed the most things in > the past year... > > For me... > Radiator > Hose from radiator to block (3 weeks later) > Top intercooloer hose > High pressure steering hose > 2 window switches > 3 interior bulbs > Oil cap > Driverside doorlock assemble > Front shocks (Also just got H&R springs) > 1 Turbo (From lower hose popping off - check it say once a month) > 1 TBPV > Rear Crank case ventilation hose > new windshield (from a rock - don't really count) > And still need a steering rack..YUK! > > JP > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian.Link@Level3.com [mailto:Brian.Link@Level3.com] > Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 3:02 PM > To: 200q20v@audifans.com > Subject: [200q20v] Fun with Audi problems > > > All > Well after owning my 91 200 for 7 months, I wanted to report to the list > the things I have fixed: > > Bomb > replaced all suspension rubber > Replaced passenger side e-brake cable > Fixed sticky passenger side rear brake caliper > Multi function temp sender > Speedometer > digital warning display > Steering wheel center section > > And last weekend I repaired the multiple broken wires in the passenger door > hinge. I'm afraid to take a look in the drivers door. > On the good note no more crackling noises when someone opens the door, and > blowing 15a fuses. > > What is next? > > Oh yea my blower motor started to squeak. > > Brian Link > Boulder, CO > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > > This e-mail and any attachments may be confidential or legally privileged. > If you received this message in error or are not the intended recipient, you > should destroy the e-mail message and any attachments or copies, and you are > prohibited from retaining, distributing disclosing or using any information > contained herein. Please inform us of the erroneous delivery by return > e-mail. > > Thank you for your cooperation. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From pwaterloo at compuserve.com Fri Nov 3 09:33:01 2000 From: pwaterloo at compuserve.com (Paul Waterloo) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Part Number for Coolant Hose Going to Turbo?? Message-ID: <022801c045ab$59e86320$6a43b618@elmhst1.il.home.com> Can anyone tell me what the part number is for the coolant hose that goes around the front of the engine, right under the PS pump and then attaches to the hard coolant pipe that goes over to the turbo charger? Mine is weeping (bad now) and I've looked at the dealer on the fiche, but could not find it. Looked for a long time too! It's an OEM hose also..... Any help would be greatly appreciated. Paul _____________________________________________________ Paul Waterloo Applied Energy Services Phone 708-524-9464 Fax 708-524-0079 Voicemail/pager 888-962-7304 pwaterloo@compuserve.com From knotnook at traverse.com Fri Nov 3 10:37:23 2000 From: knotnook at traverse.com (Kneale Brownson) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Cleaning Engine In-Reply-To: <3A02D704.4DB0E72A@ptc.com> Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20001103103620.00ab84f0@traverse.com> You might try spraying the engine with WD40 and using air to blow it off. At 10:17 AM 11/03/2000 -0500, Paul R Luevano wrote: >OK, I know I have a Pentosin leak, some other oil type leak, and now it >looks like I have a coolant leak. > >What is the best way to clean the engine and engine bay in the 200's? I >want to clean the engine really, really well, and then hopefully locate >where I'm loosing all the fluids from so I can fix. I just know that our >engines can be really, really finicky about washing, I don't want to >make things worse by waching! > >TIA! > >-- >____________________________________________________________________ >Paul Luevano | AMA #418487 |'99 CBR 600F4 (Racebike) >http://teamdaemon.com | USM * CCS #898|'97 CBR 1100XX >(Streetbike) >Waltham, MA USA | NMA #116657 |'91 200TQ20V (Winter) >________"Man's purpose is to live, not to exist."-Jack London_______ >_______________________________________________ >200q20v mailing list >200q20v@audifans.com >http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v > From maxesales at home.com Fri Nov 3 10:33:19 2000 From: maxesales at home.com (Max Conover) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Cleaning Engine References: <3A02D704.4DB0E72A@ptc.com> Message-ID: <3A02DABF.CB1B3622@home.com> BMW makes an engine cleaner that is great !!!! It will not attack the electrical and rubber parts. And they also have an engine clear coat to protect and shine after the cleaning. BUT it requires several steps. First the engine has to be dead cold, so partk your car overnight near a car wash with a scrubber system for the water (protect the bay and streams), spray on the cleaner and wait 5 minutes and wash, now pull the car out again and let it air dry for the day. When dry, apply the lack. I know it is a pain but it really is worth the effort. BMW part nunbers: 83 12 9 407 873 engine cleaner 83 12 9 407 877 engine lack Paul R Luevano wrote: > OK, I know I have a Pentosin leak, some other oil type leak, and now it > looks like I have a coolant leak. > > What is the best way to clean the engine and engine bay in the 200's? I > want to clean the engine really, really well, and then hopefully locate > where I'm loosing all the fluids from so I can fix. I just know that our > engines can be really, really finicky about washing, I don't want to > make things worse by waching! > > TIA! > > -- > ____________________________________________________________________ > Paul Luevano | AMA #418487 |'99 CBR 600F4 (Racebike) > http://teamdaemon.com | USM * CCS #898|'97 CBR 1100XX > (Streetbike) > Waltham, MA USA | NMA #116657 |'91 200TQ20V (Winter) > ________"Man's purpose is to live, not to exist."-Jack London_______ > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From r at cm183316-a.ftwrth1.tx.home.com Fri Nov 3 10:18:04 2000 From: r at cm183316-a.ftwrth1.tx.home.com (Rich Andrews) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Part Number for Coolant Hose Going to Turbo?? References: <022801c045ab$59e86320$6a43b618@elmhst1.il.home.com> Message-ID: <3A02E53C.2931439E@cm183316-a.ftwrth1.tx.home.com> Paul, According to ETKA there are 2 coolant hose and pipe assy's. This is the break down. 904 048 01 is called an adapter but on the mc engine it is called a water pipe feed. This hose has a banjo fitting at the far end and connects to the top of the turbocharger. Then there is 034 121 497 and it is called water pipe feed. This one connects to the bottom of the turbocharger and has a "union" at the other end. I found this info in ETKA. It was in Model A20Q year 91 MG 1 SG 45 illustration 21-30 To make sure about part numbers, printed on the hose somewhere is the part number. Hope this helps. Cheers! rich Paul Waterloo wrote: > Can anyone tell me what the part number is for the coolant hose that goes > around the front of the engine, right under the PS pump and then attaches to > the hard coolant pipe that goes over to the turbo charger? > > Mine is weeping (bad now) and I've looked at the dealer on the fiche, but > could not find it. Looked for a long time too! It's an OEM hose also..... > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > Paul > _____________________________________________________ > Paul Waterloo > Applied Energy Services > Phone 708-524-9464 > Fax 708-524-0079 > Voicemail/pager 888-962-7304 > pwaterloo@compuserve.com > > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From pwaterloo at compuserve.com Fri Nov 3 10:37:56 2000 From: pwaterloo at compuserve.com (Paul Waterloo) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Part Number for Coolant Hose Going to Turbo?? References: <022801c045ab$59e86320$6a43b618@elmhst1.il.home.com> <3A02E53C.2931439E@cm183316-a.ftwrth1.tx.home.com> Message-ID: <025801c045b4$6bdc3f80$6a43b618@elmhst1.il.home.com> Rich- I'm not looking for the hard pipe, but for the rubber hose that attaches to the hard pipe that goes around the front of the engine, then hooks up to another hard pipe as I recall. It has two separate diameters...can you help? TIA Paul _____________________________________________________ Paul Waterloo Applied Energy Services Phone 708-524-9464 Fax 708-524-0079 Voicemail/pager 888-962-7304 pwaterloo@compuserve.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Andrews" To: "Paul Waterloo" Cc: "200 list" <200q20v@audifans.com> Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [200q20v] Part Number for Coolant Hose Going to Turbo?? > > Paul, > According to ETKA there are 2 coolant hose and pipe assy's. This is the break > down. > > 904 048 01 is called an adapter but on the mc engine it is called a water pipe > feed. This hose has a > banjo fitting at the far end and connects to the top of the turbocharger. > > Then there is 034 121 497 and it is called water pipe feed. This one connects > to the bottom of the > turbocharger and has a "union" at the other end. > > I found this info in ETKA. It was in Model A20Q year 91 MG 1 SG 45 illustration > 21-30 > > To make sure about part numbers, printed on the hose somewhere is the part > number. > Hope this helps. > > Cheers! > > rich > > Paul Waterloo wrote: > > > Can anyone tell me what the part number is for the coolant hose that goes > > around the front of the engine, right under the PS pump and then attaches to > > the hard coolant pipe that goes over to the turbo charger? > > > > Mine is weeping (bad now) and I've looked at the dealer on the fiche, but > > could not find it. Looked for a long time too! It's an OEM hose also..... > > > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > > > Paul > > _____________________________________________________ > > Paul Waterloo > > Applied Energy Services > > Phone 708-524-9464 > > Fax 708-524-0079 > > Voicemail/pager 888-962-7304 > > pwaterloo@compuserve.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > 200q20v mailing list > > 200q20v@audifans.com > > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v > > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From knotnook at traverse.com Fri Nov 3 11:40:43 2000 From: knotnook at traverse.com (Kneale Brownson) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Part Number for Coolant Hose Going to Turbo?? In-Reply-To: <022801c045ab$59e86320$6a43b618@elmhst1.il.home.com> Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20001103113936.00ab8150@traverse.com> You need to look at the turbo/wastegate part of the program. There you'll find 035121498 is the water pipe return for 3B, and 035121497 is the water pipe feed for 3B At 09:33 AM 11/03/2000 -0600, Paul Waterloo wrote: >Can anyone tell me what the part number is for the coolant hose that goes >around the front of the engine, right under the PS pump and then attaches to >the hard coolant pipe that goes over to the turbo charger? > >Mine is weeping (bad now) and I've looked at the dealer on the fiche, but >could not find it. Looked for a long time too! It's an OEM hose also..... > >Any help would be greatly appreciated. > >Paul >_____________________________________________________ >Paul Waterloo >Applied Energy Services >Phone 708-524-9464 >Fax 708-524-0079 >Voicemail/pager 888-962-7304 >pwaterloo@compuserve.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >200q20v mailing list >200q20v@audifans.com >http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v > From r at cm183316-a.ftwrth1.tx.home.com Fri Nov 3 10:44:45 2000 From: r at cm183316-a.ftwrth1.tx.home.com (Rich Andrews) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Part Number for Coolant Hose Going to Turbo?? References: <022801c045ab$59e86320$6a43b618@elmhst1.il.home.com> <3A02E53C.2931439E@cm183316-a.ftwrth1.tx.home.com> <025801c045b4$6bdc3f80$6a43b618@elmhst1.il.home.com> Message-ID: <3A02EB7D.E5127313@cm183316-a.ftwrth1.tx.home.com> According to what I see here, The pipe that connects to the bottom of the turbo is the feed line and that pipe is crimped onto a rubber hose and is all one piece. the other end of that hose is connected to a union and is secured to that union with a hose clamp. The pipe that is at the top of the turbo connects to a hose and is secured to that hose with a hose clamp. The other end of that hose terminates with a banjo fitting and is secured by a crimp. Now that is what is in the parts manual. I know that on my car there are differences between the car and the manual. let me know rich Paul Waterloo wrote: > Rich- > > I'm not looking for the hard pipe, but for the rubber hose that attaches to > the hard pipe that goes around the front of the engine, then hooks up to > another hard pipe as I recall. It has two separate diameters...can you help? > > TIA > > Paul > _____________________________________________________ > Paul Waterloo > Applied Energy Services > Phone 708-524-9464 > Fax 708-524-0079 > Voicemail/pager 888-962-7304 > pwaterloo@compuserve.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rich Andrews" > To: "Paul Waterloo" > Cc: "200 list" <200q20v@audifans.com> > Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 10:18 AM > Subject: Re: [200q20v] Part Number for Coolant Hose Going to Turbo?? > > > > > Paul, > > According to ETKA there are 2 coolant hose and pipe assy's. This is the > break > > down. > > > > 904 048 01 is called an adapter but on the mc engine it is called a water > pipe > > feed. This hose has a > > banjo fitting at the far end and connects to the top of the turbocharger. > > > > Then there is 034 121 497 and it is called water pipe feed. This one > connects > > to the bottom of the > > turbocharger and has a "union" at the other end. > > > > I found this info in ETKA. It was in Model A20Q year 91 MG 1 SG 45 > illustration > > 21-30 > > > > To make sure about part numbers, printed on the hose somewhere is the part > > number. > > Hope this helps. > > > > Cheers! > > > > rich > > > > Paul Waterloo wrote: > > > > > Can anyone tell me what the part number is for the coolant hose that > goes > > > around the front of the engine, right under the PS pump and then > attaches to > > > the hard coolant pipe that goes over to the turbo charger? > > > > > > Mine is weeping (bad now) and I've looked at the dealer on the fiche, > but > > > could not find it. Looked for a long time too! It's an OEM hose > also..... > > > > > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > > > > > Paul > > > _____________________________________________________ > > > Paul Waterloo > > > Applied Energy Services > > > Phone 708-524-9464 > > > Fax 708-524-0079 > > > Voicemail/pager 888-962-7304 > > > pwaterloo@compuserve.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > 200q20v mailing list > > > 200q20v@audifans.com > > > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v > > > > _______________________________________________ > > 200q20v mailing list > > 200q20v@audifans.com > > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From pjrose at frontiernet.net Fri Nov 3 11:44:28 2000 From: pjrose at frontiernet.net (Phil Rose) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: AW: [200q20v] Fun with Audi problems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 2:49 AM -0500 11/3/00, Peer Oliver Schmidt \(the internet company\) wrote: >>Hey, Maybe we could have a contest to see who has fixed the most >>things in the past year... >* New transmission (that was cheap [from Rob Braun]) currently not >installed, just sitting in the garage, waiting for the other tranny to go >bad. > >Let's see, who can beat this? What Peer has done (buy a new tranny to keep in reserve) is smart and so very tempting to do. I believe the tranny is probably the "weakest link' for our 100++K mile cars (in the sense of potentially terminal "illness"). This is especially true, IMHO, when the extra stress from ECU chipping is factored into the picture. It would be great to be able to install a cheap, brand new tranny if the old one goes bad, but of course by then (for most of us) these will be unavailable. Except perhaps for one, sitting in Peer's garage. :-) Phil Rose Rochester, NY '91 200q mailto:pjrose@frontiernet.net From rbwinchell at yahoo.com Fri Nov 3 09:13:39 2000 From: rbwinchell at yahoo.com (Rob Winchell) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] RE: Hydraulic hose Message-ID: <20001103171339.62099.qmail@web219.mail.yahoo.com> Has anyone here installed an aftermarket (Hanseatic) power steering hose? It's considerably cheaper ($100) than the OE hose, but I also here that it is noisy (buzzes). Anyone? Rob Winchell 91 200q20v __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? From sidman at montereynet.net Fri Nov 3 09:36:24 2000 From: sidman at montereynet.net (George Sidman) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Re: Multi-temp sensor gremlins References: <200011030257.VAA08268@audifans.com> Message-ID: <3A02F798.8C474FC2@montereynet.net> After the upper rad hose blew at the water manifold, and I emptied out the water in the multi-temp sensor boot, and dried out the connector, I now have limp-home mode boost. No codes, and no display indicators. If I disconnect the connector I get some boost back, but not all. Is this telling me the multi-temp sensor is broke, or might there be something else to consider?? More than a gallon of coolant was lost before I could refill, so might there be something else that got cooked, and is inhibiting ECU boost control? -- George Sidman, President Nousoft, Inc. - Monterey Network Center www.nousoft.com - www.montereynet.net sidman@montereynet.net 9701 Blue Larkspur Lane Monterey, CA 93940 831 657-1510 From pjrose at frontiernet.net Fri Nov 3 13:24:34 2000 From: pjrose at frontiernet.net (Phil Rose) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Re: Multi-temp sensor gremlins In-Reply-To: <3A02F798.8C474FC2@montereynet.net> References: <200011030257.VAA08268@audifans.com> Message-ID: At 12:36 PM -0500 11/3/00, George Sidman wrote: >After the upper rad hose blew at the water manifold, and I >emptied out the water in the multi-temp sensor boot, and >dried out the connector, I now have limp-home mode boost. No >codes, and no display indicators. If I disconnect the >connector I get some boost back, but not all. Is this >telling me the multi-temp sensor is broke, or might there be >something else to consider?? More than a gallon of coolant >was lost before I could refill, so might there be something >else that got cooked, and is inhibiting ECU boost control? >-- Does the dash temp gauge seem to work? Are there good ground connections at the intake manifold? Also the knock sensor(s) might have had quite a bath, too. But malfunction there would give a code, wouldn't it? Phil ********************************* * Phil & Judy Rose Rochester, NY * * mailto:pjrose@frontiernet.net * ********************************* From rbwinchell at yahoo.com Fri Nov 3 11:54:08 2000 From: rbwinchell at yahoo.com (Rob Winchell) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Cleaning Engine Message-ID: <20001103195408.7293.qmail@web221.mail.yahoo.com> Eureka makes a little hand-held steam cleaner(@ $80), about the size of a Dustbuster. I was thinking this would be a good way to go to clean engines (and a lot of other things). Haven't tried it though. Rob Winchell 91 200q20v --- Paul R Luevano wrote: > OK, I know I have a Pentosin leak, some other oil > type leak, and now it > looks like I have a coolant leak. > > What is the best way to clean the engine and engine > bay in the 200's? I > want to clean the engine really, really well, and > then hopefully locate > where I'm loosing all the fluids from so I can fix. > I just know that our > engines can be really, really finicky about washing, > I don't want to > make things worse by waching! > > TIA! > > -- > ____________________________________________________________________ > Paul Luevano | AMA #418487 |'99 CBR > 600F4 (Racebike) > http://teamdaemon.com | USM * CCS #898|'97 CBR > 1100XX > (Streetbike) > Waltham, MA USA | NMA #116657 |'91 > 200TQ20V (Winter) > ________"Man's purpose is to live, not to > exist."-Jack London_______ > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? From fussball_3 at hotmail.com Fri Nov 3 23:02:41 2000 From: fussball_3 at hotmail.com (-J J-) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Need a wheel Message-ID: I am looking for a 15" x 7.5" BBS style clearcoat grey wheel. I have found one and ordered it, but I am still looking for a second wheel TIA, John Gronberg Jr. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From sbhack at attglobal.net Fri Nov 3 18:20:50 2000 From: sbhack at attglobal.net (Steve Hackett) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] 20v Avant FS (updated) In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001102212351.02b06eb0@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001103181533.02b12190@127.0.0.1> At 09:28 PM 11/2/00 -0500, SH wrote: >'91 200 20v Avant turbo/quattro. Early '91 production w/logo, 145k miles, > 2nd owner - previously older couple. Clean in and out, Teal > w/Tan interior, > no modifications. Asking $12,500, Middletown, RI (401) ........ > >This is a friend of mine, I've seen the car and it's clean. In addition >to being previously owned by an older lady, the car has been without boost >for the past 2 years!, it's probably just a valve or hose. The colors >are great. Anyone interested, I will put in touch. I'd snatch it up but >my garage is full now (damn!). My friend has put this ad in this weekends Boston Globe. '91 200 Turbo/Quattro Wagon. Rare 20v 5 speed, 148,750 miles. Excellent condition, blue w/gray leather. Loaded, $9,850. RI, 401-635-2346 hale@goetzboats.com He also informs me that he has just done all belts, front rotors(UFO's) and pads, as well as cam belt and water pump. . From steve_scalmanini at agilent.com Fri Nov 3 21:40:46 2000 From: steve_scalmanini at agilent.com (steve_scalmanini@agilent.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Fun with Audi problems Message-ID: <3F6C350C5977D311AA58009027AA5D3E071A67F6@axcs03.cos.agilent.com> ' any watch-out-fors while replacing the front fender (L), headlamp, trim, hood, etc? Mine's due for such soon and and I want to know what to tell 'em ahead ... and check when it's allegedly finished. Steve -----Original Message----- From: Sylvester, Mike [mailto:Mike.Sylvester@sycamorenet.com] Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 3:45 PM To: 'Chaplen, John '; 'Brian.Link@Level3.com'; 200q20v@audifans.com Subject: RE: [200q20v] Fun with Audi problems I had to replace the following due to the previous owner's accident: Hood r/l fenders bumper cover and reinforcement l frame section l headlight grill and chrome trim core support intercooler radiator aux radiator Someone else did the painting, I did everything else. From steve_scalmanini at agilent.com Fri Nov 3 23:59:12 2000 From: steve_scalmanini at agilent.com (SCALMANINI,STEVE (A-Sonoma,ex1)) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Fun with Audi problems Message-ID: <3F6C350C5977D311AA58009027AA5D3E071A67F9@axcs03.cos.agilent.com> What went wrong with the 3B? -----Original Message----- * New 3B Engine, new turbo (together around DM 22000,-- ~ US$ 10k) From pos at theinternet.de Sat Nov 4 10:59:53 2000 From: pos at theinternet.de (Peer Oliver Schmidt (the internet company)) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: AW: [200q20v] Fun with Audi problems In-Reply-To: <3F6C350C5977D311AA58009027AA5D3E071A67F9@axcs03.cos.agilent.com> Message-ID: Some might recall my cylinder head trouble about 18 month ago. A foreign garaga (in Austria) replaced the cylinder head. 12 month later, one of the valves broke in pieces, destroyed the engine block and the turbo. Don't ask me about warranty of the austrian garage... Just don't... Have a good weekend. rgds pos -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: 200q20v-admin@audifans.com [mailto:200q20v-admin@audifans.com]Im Auftrag von SCALMANINI,STEVE (A-Sonoma,ex1) Gesendet: Samstag, 4. November 2000 05:59 An: 200q20v@audifans.com Cc: 'Peer Oliver Schmidt (the internet company)' Betreff: RE: [200q20v] Fun with Audi problems What went wrong with the 3B? -----Original Message----- * New 3B Engine, new turbo (together around DM 22000,-- ~ US$ 10k) _______________________________________________ 200q20v mailing list 200q20v@audifans.com http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From tpsidders1 at netzero.net Sun Nov 5 10:14:44 2000 From: tpsidders1 at netzero.net (Tim Sidders) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Fw: only getting 1.7 bar of boost Message-ID: <002801c04754$477d68c0$99632e9c@computer> ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Sidders To: quattro list Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 10:13 AM Subject: only getting 1.7 bar of boost Hi all, I'm in the process of working out all of the little gremlins of my new(to me) 91 200 20v. I'm attacking the boost situation first. I went to Scott Mockry's site and have done the ABC's, I found that my WG frequency valve was bad... I've replaced all vacuum hoses and before installing the WG frequency valve I was only getting 1.4 bar in 3rd gear WOT. I now am getting 1.6-1.7 regularly I will occasionally get 1.8 in 5th gear at WOT. Is this normal???? Or should I still be looking for something else. I know that altitude and fuel quality have some say so in how much boost is created. I live in Milwaukee, Wi and ONLY run 93 octane in the car. I almost forgot...I installed a manual boost gauge and when the digital gauge reads 1.7 the manual gauge only reads 12psi. I haven't done the conversion, but does that sound right as well??? I want to get all the bugs worked out before I send my ECU in to get modified. Thanks for any help !!!!!! Tim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.audifans.com/pipermail/200q20v/attachments/20001105/46570742/attachment.htm From C1J1Miller at aol.com Sun Nov 5 13:49:47 2000 From: C1J1Miller at aol.com (C1J1Miller@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Fw: only getting 1.7 bar of boost Message-ID: In a message dated 11/5/00 11:21:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, tpsidders1@netzero.net writes: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tim Sidders > To: quattro list > Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 10:13 AM > Subject: only getting 1.7 bar of boost > > > Hi all, > I'm in the process of working out all of the little gremlins of my new(to me) > 91 200 20v. I'm attacking the boost situation first. I went to Scott Mockry' > s site and have done the ABC's, I found that my WG frequency valve was bad... > I've replaced all vacuum hoses and before installing the WG frequency valve I > was only getting 1.4 bar in 3rd gear WOT. I now am getting 1.6-1.7 regularly > I will occasionally get 1.8 in 5th gear at WOT. Is this normal???? Or should > I still be looking for something else. I know that altitude and fuel quality > have some say so in how much boost is created. I live in Milwaukee, Wi and > ONLY run 93 octane in the car. > I almost forgot...I installed a manual boost gauge and when the digital > gauge reads 1.7 the manual gauge only reads 12psi. I haven't done the > conversion, but does that sound right as well??? I want to get all the bugs > worked out before I send my ECU in to get modified. Thanks for any help !!!!!! > > > > Tim 1 bar (sea level) is 14.7 psi. .8 of 14.7 is 11.76 psi. Sounds good, don't trust the dash gauge. chris From gpeter at frontiernet.net Sun Nov 5 15:06:54 2000 From: gpeter at frontiernet.net (Gary Peterson) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] FS: My 91 200TQ 20v Message-ID: <003301c04763$f64c3de0$fc8982d1@soldbysu> This ad will be showing up in the "marketplace" at the next update but I thought I'd give my fellow 20v list members advance notice of my ad. 1991 200TQ 20v. $5,800.00, 205,000 miles. Rochester, NY. Both interior and exterior are near perfect (think of what most look like at 30k). Completely stock (except for new Alpine head unit/Infinity speakers). Obsessively maintained. New suspension bushings (front), springs, shocks within the last 30,000 miles. Tires new 10,000 miles ago. Produces 1.8 bar. A beautiful example of a truly awesome car. Contact Gary Peterson. Email gpeter9543@aol.com or phone 716-230-5634. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.audifans.com/pipermail/200q20v/attachments/20001105/c5496243/attachment.htm From r at cm183316-a.ftwrth1.tx.home.com Sun Nov 5 14:42:53 2000 From: r at cm183316-a.ftwrth1.tx.home.com (Rich Andrews) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Fw: only getting 1.7 bar of boost References: <002801c04754$477d68c0$99632e9c@computer> Message-ID: <3A05C64D.72FBE790@cm183316-a.ftwrth1.tx.home.com> Everything sounds perfect to me. There is many a discussion about bar vs psi but your 1.7 to 1.8 sounds perfect. The real killer is the gearing of the car. 1st gear is good to about 30mph and then 2nd is good to about 60mph. That is how Audi got such low 0-60 times. rich Tim Sidders wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tim Sidders > To: quattro listSent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 10:13 AMSubject: only > getting 1.7 bar of boost > Hi all,I'm in the process of working out all of the little gremlins > of my new(to me) 91 200 20v. I'm attacking the boost situation first. > I went to Scott Mockry's site and have done the ABC's, I found that my > WG frequency valve was bad... I've replaced all vacuum hoses and > before installing the WG frequency valve I was only getting 1.4 bar in > 3rd gear WOT. I now am getting 1.6-1.7 regularly I will occasionally > get 1.8 in 5th gear at WOT. Is this normal???? Or should I still be > looking for something else. I know that altitude and fuel quality have > some say so in how much boost is created. I live in Milwaukee, Wi and > ONLY run 93 octane in the car. I almost forgot...I installed a > manual boost gauge and when the digital gauge reads 1.7 the manual > gauge only reads 12psi. I haven't done the conversion, but does that > sound right as well??? I want to get all the bugs worked out before I > send my ECU in to get modified. Thanks for any help > !!!!!! > Tim From grena at mt.net Sun Nov 5 14:57:13 2000 From: grena at mt.net (Greg Grena) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] shift handle needs refinishing Message-ID: <001001c04773$5dc69380$3a757fce@mt.net> Has anyone removed the wooden shift handle and refinished it? Mine is pretty worn off and looks bad when the rest of the interior looks pretty new. Wondering if anyone came up with the correct stain color and kind of varnish or has any recommendations. How do you get the shift handle off? Do you have to pop off the emblem with the gear shift pattern on it to reveal a nut and bolt? Thanks for any help, -Greg '91 200q20v, 121K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.audifans.com/pipermail/200q20v/attachments/20001105/bf5c6993/attachment.htm From paulcsu at hotmail.com Sun Nov 5 23:24:58 2000 From: paulcsu at hotmail.com (Paul Friedenberg) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] RS2 Turbo problems Message-ID: I purchased my RS2 turbo and manifold about a year ago for my '91 200, and every thing was great until I installed a TAP bypass valve. The day after installation, I bent some vanes on the intake side, noticed this by "whining" sound. I assume that this happened due to a pressure spike on the intake side. Turbo was rebuilt(impeller repaired and balanced not replaced) by TEC in Golden CO, and about three months later, I am hearing the same "whining" sound, just not as pronounced. Inspection of Intake side impeller shows no visible damage or bending. There is minimal play on shaft, but no signs of impeller rubbing on housing. The car smokes on startup and on throttle. I am replacing crankcase breather hose which is torn, may be cause of smoking. Plugs show signs that car is running rich, which are being repaced as well. FYI, car has TAP chips, wastegate spring, stock bypass valve. Mobil 1 changed every 2,500 miles. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks, Paul Friedenberg _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From donohue at netconnx.net Sun Nov 5 18:29:47 2000 From: donohue at netconnx.net (Thomas J. Donohue, Jr.) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] shift handle needs refinishing References: <001001c04773$5dc69380$3a757fce@mt.net> Message-ID: <3A05ED6B.CBA6EA89@netconnx.net> Just removed the wooden knob on my 200q20v wagon to do so...it is pretty tight, but just a screw-off operation. I have a leather knob it its place while I start to experiment with the wood one...no BTDTs, but I would appreciate any anyone else has, too, and will pass along anything I learn in the process. Regards, Tom Greg Grena wrote: > Has anyone removed the wooden shift handle and refinished it? Mine is > pretty worn off and looks bad whenthe rest of the interior looks > pretty new. Wondering if anyone came up with the correct stain color > andkind of varnish or has any recommendations. How do you get the > shift handle off? Do you have to pop offthe emblem with the gear > shift pattern on it to reveal a nut and bolt?Thanks for any > help, -Greg'91 200q20v, 121K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.audifans.com/pipermail/200q20v/attachments/20001105/a12560f2/attachment.htm From jimmy at urs4.com Sun Nov 5 18:14:43 2000 From: jimmy at urs4.com (Jimmy Pribble, Managing Editor, UrS4.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] RE: [s-cars] RS2 Turbo problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Paul, It is impossible from here to tell if the TAP bpv was the actual culprit of your original failure, but it is as good a suspect as any. I found your earlier post asking for recommended settings on the valve. Did anyone reply to you? What did you finally decide? This could be important, because one train of thought is that in a bypass valve configuration (rather than a blow-off valve config), the TAP valve should remain at its lowest setting (12 psi). It is hypothesized by me and others (see attached post by Robert Pastore) that any additional setting returns nothing except the possible damage to your turbo. TAP warns as much, though without explaining how or why one should adjust their valve. Anyway, it is conceivable that you set the spring preload too high. Here is my original review of the TAP bypass valve: http://www.urs4.com/TAP%20bypass%20valve.html, which is scheduled for a re-write because it is a little confusing in some areas. Unfortunately, I'm not a technical writer. Pastore would say, I'm not a writer at all. ;-) As for your current problems, what fault codes are you getting? Smoking motors are...well, not good. Jimmy www.urs4.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Friedenberg [mailto:paulcsu@hotmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 5:25 PM > To: s-car-list@egroups.com > Cc: qshipq@aol.com; 200q20v@audifans.com > Subject: [s-cars] RS2 Turbo problems > > > I purchased my RS2 turbo and manifold about a year ago for my '91 > 200, and > every thing was great until I installed a TAP bypass valve. The day after > installation, I bent some vanes on the intake side, noticed this by > "whining" sound. I assume that this happened due to a pressure > spike on the > intake side. Turbo was rebuilt(impeller repaired and balanced not > replaced) > by TEC in Golden CO, and about three months later, I am hearing the same > "whining" sound, just not as pronounced. Inspection of Intake > side impeller > shows no visible damage or bending. There is minimal play on > shaft, but no > signs of impeller rubbing on housing. The car smokes on startup and on > throttle. I am replacing crankcase breather hose which is torn, > may be cause > of smoking. Plugs show signs that car is running rich, which are being > repaced as well. FYI, car has TAP chips, wastegate spring, stock bypass > valve. Mobil 1 changed every 2,500 miles. Any help would be much > appreciated. > > Thanks, > Paul Friedenberg > > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > To unsubscribe, email: s-car-list-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Robert Pastore" Subject: RE: [s-cars] TAP Bypass valve (Dump valve) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 07:59:31 -0600 Size: 9959 Url: http://www.audifans.com/pipermail/200q20v/attachments/20001105/655d9e52/attachment.eml From fussball_3 at hotmail.com Mon Nov 6 00:10:33 2000 From: fussball_3 at hotmail.com (-J J-) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] shift handle needs refinishing Message-ID: I am doing the same thing soon to my 200. My knob unscrews really easily though. When I shift sometimes it will turn in my hand, and if I tighten it as far as I can, without turning it so hard as to fear bending something I am about half a turn away from having the shift pattern aligned properly. Does anyone else have this problem? I am also curious about the correct varnish and all of that. John Gronberg Jr. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From pjrose at frontiernet.net Sun Nov 5 23:50:43 2000 From: pjrose at frontiernet.net (Phil Rose) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Fw: only getting 1.7 bar of boost In-Reply-To: <3A05C64D.72FBE790@cm183316-a.ftwrth1.tx.home.com> References: <002801c04754$477d68c0$99632e9c@computer> Message-ID: At 3:42 PM -0500 11/5/00, Rich Andrews wrote: >Everything sounds perfect to me. There is many a discussion about bar >vs psi Not much to to discuss; it's a matter of definition, not opinion. 1 bar = 0.987 atm = 14.5089 psi So at sea level, 1.8 bar absolute = 11.6 psi (gauge) >but your 1.7 to 1.8 sounds perfect. I agree. > The real killer is the gearing of the car. 1st gear is >good to about 30mph and then 2nd >is good to about 60mph. That is how Audi got such low 0-60 times. ????Hmmm. Seems to me you could get very high 0-60 times with exactly the same gearing. :-) Phil >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Tim Sidders >> To: quattro listSent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 10:13 AMSubject: only >> getting 1.7 bar of boost >> Hi all,I'm in the process of working out all of the little gremlins >> of my new(to me) 91 200 20v. I'm attacking the boost situation first. >> I went to Scott Mockry's site and have done the ABC's, I found that my >> WG frequency valve was bad... I've replaced all vacuum hoses and >> before installing the WG frequency valve I was only getting 1.4 bar in >> 3rd gear WOT. I now am getting 1.6-1.7 regularly I will occasionally >> get 1.8 in 5th gear at WOT. Is this normal???? Or should I still be >> looking for something else. I know that altitude and fuel quality have >> some say so in how much boost is created. I live in Milwaukee, Wi and >> ONLY run 93 octane in the car. I almost forgot...I installed a >> manual boost gauge and when the digital gauge reads 1.7 the manual >> gauge only reads 12psi. I haven't done the conversion, but does that >> sound right as well??? I want to get all the bugs worked out before I >> send my ECU in to get modified. Thanks for any help >> !!!!!! >> Tim > >_______________________________________________ >200q20v mailing list >200q20v@audifans.com >http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v ********************************* * Phil & Judy Rose Rochester, NY * * mailto:pjrose@frontiernet.net * ********************************* From pjrose at frontiernet.net Mon Nov 6 00:25:42 2000 From: pjrose at frontiernet.net (Phil Rose) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] shift handle needs refinishing In-Reply-To: <3A05ED6B.CBA6EA89@netconnx.net> References: <001001c04773$5dc69380$3a757fce@mt.net> Message-ID: At 6:29 PM -0500 11/5/00, Thomas J. Donohue, Jr. wrote: > Just removed the wooden knob on my 200q20v wagon to do so...it is >pretty tight, but just a screw-off operation. I have a leather knob it >its place while I start to experiment with the wood one...no BTDTs, but I >would appreciate any anyone else has, too, and will pass along anything I >learn in the process. Regards, Tom > >Greg Grena wrote: > > Has anyone removed the wooden shift handle and refinished it? Mine is >pretty worn off and looks bad whenthe rest of the interior looks pretty >new. Wondering if anyone came up with the correct stain color andkind of >varnish or has any recommendations. How do you get the shift handle off? >Do you have to pop offthe emblem with the gear shift pattern on it to >reveal a nut and bolt?Thanks for any help, -Greg'91 200q20v, 121K > > I posted a "how-to" a couple of years ago. I even did exactly what I suggested below--using my lathe-- and got great results that have lasted very nicely for about 20K miles of driving. I used only the Watco oil (no stain) and applied no additional varnish. The clear oil treatment will bring the sanded knob to a deep (reddish-brown walnut) color. Looks reasonably close to the rest of the trim, IMO. Phil > do a very light >smoothing (sanding) with a small piece (strip) of handheld 220 grit >sandpaper. >This will take off any dirt and remaining surface finish. Sanding might >be best done if you can mount your knob on a lathe and sand it whilst >spinning. Get a M12x1.5 bolt, cut off the head and chuck it >up in your variable speed drill (held in vise or by helper). Constantly >move the sandpaper along the length of the knob, and use a *very* light >touch. You might want to do a final sanding with 380 or 400 grit paper. [carefully avoid touching the plastic shift-pattern disc, or better yet, remove it] > >After sanding, the wood will surely appear too light to you (trust me), yet >it will darken considerably just by applying a coat or two of clear Danish >oil (sold as "Watco Danish Oil", etc.): Soak some of it into the wood >using a rag, wait 10-20 minutes, >and wipe off excess. Or, you could first apply stain if *really* >dark is what you want. Then after the oil is well-dried (a couple days is >best) >you can apply clear polyurethane varnish if desired. Varnish only if >you want a somewhat glossy look. Apply several verrrry thin coats--I'd >opt for using the water-based gel finishes that are made to be wiped >on with a rag. Apply, wipe off, dry as recommended. Repeat several times to >build up a smooth, durable finish. Avoid brushed-on finishes, as you'll >probably be disappointed with the inevitable brushmarks, bubbles... [P.S. If you're intent on using a wipe-on varnish, you may as well skip the Danish oil, since the varnish will produce the same deep brown color as does the oil treatment.] > >Phil R. Phil Rose Rochester, NY '91 200q mailto:pjrose@frontiernet.net From brandon at cardinalventures.com Mon Nov 6 08:52:31 2000 From: brandon at cardinalventures.com (Brandon Hull) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] BIRA "press" releases Message-ID: <3FFC3BD56762D4119C2400A0C9843B4A09360F@CARDINALNT1> For general info: BIRA now has a two-piece Coleman rotor design, and the system2 for the biturbo audis. Brandon bira "member" and advocate! > 11/06/00 - BIRA Announces "Plus Option" For All Designs > > 11/04/00 - BIRA Announces System 2 for the Neu-S4 and A62.7t > > > http://www.bira.org/news.html > > From mikemilr at blackfoot.net Mon Nov 6 07:17:44 2000 From: mikemilr at blackfoot.net (Mike Miller) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Fw: only getting 1.7 bar of boost References: <002801c04754$477d68c0$99632e9c@computer> Message-ID: <000b01c047fc$560d0b40$5622200c@mike> : : > The real killer is the gearing of the car. 1st gear is : >good to about 30mph and then 2nd : >is good to about 60mph. That is how Audi got such low 0-60 times. Audi gets low 0-60 times because you must shift at about 56-57 mph from 2nd to 3rd. Although, 0-60 in the mid sixes is not what I would call low :-) mike miller with 4 inches of new snow to "quattro" with From Brian.Link at Level3.com Mon Nov 6 10:57:21 2000 From: Brian.Link at Level3.com (Brian.Link@Level3.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Is my thermostat stuck open? Message-ID: <59BABB2C32D6D211B37400805FA719E3025CCD9D@l3goldmail01.l3.com> All, Where does your temp gauge read when doing highway driving when it is 20-40 degrees F out side. Mine will center up when idling, but when driving it never makes it out of the low side. Brian Link From pwaterloo at compuserve.com Mon Nov 6 12:28:26 2000 From: pwaterloo at compuserve.com (Paul Waterloo) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Is my thermostat stuck open? References: <59BABB2C32D6D211B37400805FA719E3025CCD9D@l3goldmail01.l3.com> Message-ID: <001c01c0481f$5a87a900$6a43b618@elmhst1.il.home.com> If it doesn't get off the low peg and you have no heat, then it's stuck open (like mine last year). If it gets past the low peg, in cold weather it usually doesn't get above 1/4 of full scale unless idling.... It's a PIA to replace! Paul _____________________________________________________ Paul Waterloo Applied Energy Services Phone 708-524-9464 Fax 708-524-0079 Voicemail/pager 888-962-7304 pwaterloo@compuserve.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: <200q20v@audifans.com> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 11:57 AM Subject: [200q20v] Is my thermostat stuck open? > > All, > > Where does your temp gauge read when doing highway driving when it is 20-40 > degrees F out side. > > Mine will center up when idling, but when driving it never makes it out of > the low side. > > Brian Link > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From rbwinchell at yahoo.com Mon Nov 6 10:33:00 2000 From: rbwinchell at yahoo.com (Rob Winchell) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Is my thermostat stuck open? Message-ID: <20001106183300.24350.qmail@web209.mail.yahoo.com> That sounds stuck open to me. I had the same problem last year and replaced mine, which fixed it. Rob Winchell 91 200q20v --- Brian.Link@Level3.com wrote: > All, > > Where does your temp gauge read when doing highway > driving when it is 20-40 > degrees F out side. > > Mine will center up when idling, but when driving it > never makes it out of > the low side. > > Brian Link > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From pjrose at frontiernet.net Mon Nov 6 13:53:38 2000 From: pjrose at frontiernet.net (Phil Rose) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Is my thermostat stuck open? In-Reply-To: <59BABB2C32D6D211B37400805FA719E3025CCD9D@l3goldmail01.l3.com> Message-ID: At 12:57 PM -0500 11/6/00, Brian.Link@Level3.com wrote: >All, > >Where does your temp gauge read when doing highway driving when it is 20-40 >degrees F out side. > >Mine will center up when idling, but when driving it never makes it out of >the low side. > >Brian Link Typical for me also, if by "low side" you mean just above the first 3 closely spaced bars. That is even right after installing new multifunction sensor and new 87 deg thermostat. Many (most?) '91 200q owners seem to "complain" of that same behavior, but it seems quite normal (although not necessarily accurate) for these beasts. Then again, what is "accurate", since our temp gauges aren't labelled? Phil Rose Rochester, NY '91 200q mailto:pjrose@frontiernet.net From C1J1Miller at aol.com Mon Nov 6 14:16:54 2000 From: C1J1Miller at aol.com (C1J1Miller@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Is my thermostat stuck open? Message-ID: <66.8ff8bd1.27385da7@aol.com> For me, the temp seems to sit at the first hash mark after the 3 "cold" close together marks. Stays there consistently when running in "auto" which runs the low-speed fan. Slightly higher in "econ" with no fan. Just past "12-o'clock" to the right, the mid speed fan comes on. Oil temp rises to the first mark after 60 on the highway (prolly 100 C?). Seldom goes much higher. I don't do boost until temp rises towards normal, but more importantly, until the oil temp reaches the 60 hash mark. chris From MTrank at exch.co.albemarle.va.us Mon Nov 6 16:53:33 2000 From: MTrank at exch.co.albemarle.va.us (Mark Trank) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] WEIRD AD Message-ID: Hey all: Saw this in today's Washington Post/cars.com classifieds: For Sale: 1994 AUDI 200cs Quatro (sp) 64k $17,000/bo bro 651-772-2526 451-2040 . Did I miss something back in '94? Mark mtrank@albemarle.org 91 200q20v 83k miles From malth at umich.edu Mon Nov 6 17:10:54 2000 From: malth at umich.edu (Chris Covington) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] WEIRD AD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Maybe that dude's a real 200q20v fanatic and he refuses to call "S4s" S4s instead referrring to them as 200qs, which they basically are (hell, they kept the hundred afterall). Chris '91 2cq On Mon, 6 Nov 2000, Mark Trank wrote: > Hey all: > > Saw this in today's Washington Post/cars.com classifieds: > > For Sale: 1994 AUDI 200cs Quatro (sp) 64k $17,000/bo bro > 651-772-2526 451-2040 . > > Did I miss something back in '94? > > Mark > mtrank@albemarle.org > > 91 200q20v 83k miles > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v > From Brian.Link at Level3.com Mon Nov 6 15:47:26 2000 From: Brian.Link at Level3.com (Brian.Link@Level3.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Is my thermostat stuck open? Message-ID: <59BABB2C32D6D211B37400805FA719E3025CCDA5@l3goldmail01.l3.com> Thanks, It gets off the low peg but does not go much past the second or third mark. I have heat, I just get worried that my oil temp doesn't get much past 60 C. From r at cm183316-a.ftwrth1.tx.home.com Mon Nov 6 17:25:24 2000 From: r at cm183316-a.ftwrth1.tx.home.com (Rich Andrews) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:09:20 2003 Subject: [200q20v] Is my thermostat stuck open? References: <59BABB2C32D6D211B37400805FA719E3025CCDA5@l3goldmail01.l3.com> Message-ID: <3A073DE4.F0FF508E@cm183316-a.ftwrth1.tx.home.com> The aircraft engine is air cooled so that is why the oil temp runs hotter. The oil temp will get up ther