[200q20v] Re: [BIRA] 3pt Seatbelt harness

Theodore Chen tedebearp at yahoo.com
Wed Apr 25 01:35:26 EDT 2001

> <<  no they don't.  replace the lap seat belt mounting bolts with eye bolts 
> and
>  use snap-in belts, so you don't have to sacrifice the regular seatbelt.
>  if you use a six point harness, you can attach the ends of the 
>  antisubmarine strap to the seat mounting bolts.  the shoulder harness
>  is the trickiest part.  one solution i've seen is to attach to the rear
>  lap belt anchors,>>
> Then this is no different than a Schroth installation... in my car the angle 
> is less than 45 degrees, since I have short legs, my seat sits up close and 
> there is an acceptable angle to prevent spine compression problems.

yes, although the schroth belts are usually 2" wide instead
of 3".

BTW, it also helps if you have some recline in the seat, although
you shouldn't sacrifice your leverage on the steering wheel.

>  <<a good solution from a driver protection standpoint is to bolt a 
>  beefy bar between the b-pillars using the stock shoulder belt
>  anchors.  this ensures that the shoulder harness doesn't compress your 
>  spine.  you need to make sure this bar is stiff, so it won't bend and
>  put a big bending load on the mounting bolts.>>
> Ok, this supports my extremely impractical point, though a good idea, but a 
> lot of work for a street car ocassionally driven on the track in "dirving 
> events".

i don't think it's that bad.  it doesn't take very long to install
and remove the bar during your track prep.  remove two bolts, install
bar, replace bolts.  i agree it's a little more work than simply
connecting the schroth belts to the rear seatbelt buckles.

> I never said I regard "saftey" as overkill, it is of your opinion that the 
> Scroth harnesses are "unsafe", my experience tells me otherwise.  I know of 
> countless cars track driven, some have even been in severe accidents (Ken 
> Bennett's Coupe GT comes to mind, complete rollover at Sears) with very 
> "safe" results using Schroth harnesses.

i've heard of people who suffered soft tissue injuries and back
injuries after accidents with schroth harnesses.  however, no
hard data saying they would've been better off with the stock
belts.  some people did sustain injuries from submarining under
the belts, which an antisubmarine strap would have prevented.

>   <<i'm not convinced of that, javad.  i know schroth belts are very pretty
>  and make a nice and clean installation, but i'm not convinced they
>  are an improvement over stock from a safety standpoint, primarily 
>  because of the shoulder harness issue.  spinal compression is very 
>  bad, and that's why football players aren't allowed to use their 
>  heads to ram other players.>>
> Correct, see above, spinal injuries are very serious, but your suggestion of 
> installing a race harness using the rear mount points does not support the 
> above...it then seems a matter of installation, not belt design.  And it has 
> nothing to do with being "pretty"...

yeah, i wouldn't mount a race harness in the manner i described
first.  some people do.  i'd use the bar between the b-pillars.

> Correct, but because a particular mod does not pass tech inspection at SCCA 
> does not mean it is not safe or effective for driving a street car on the 
> track...then should we all install roll cages too?  It is clear that for the 
> GREATEST level of safetey, a race harness should be used.

ok.  i don't see the installation of a race harness as being
substantially more difficult than a schroth, and maybe that's
where we differ.

> << mostly, i see them in riceboy cars.  not that i'm calling
>  you a riceboy, javad.  i do feel that if you are going to spend money
>  and effort installing a harness, you should do the job right.>>
> Oh boy, now you are heading towards fisticuffs!!    =)  Without reference to 
> mudslinging, "riceboys" have taken many good products and ruined them with 
> their ignorance...I blame riceboys for their motives and ignorance, not the 
> products they use, nuff said...

sorry, javad, not trying to antagonize you.  the very fact that
you own an audi and are on this list instead of audiworld speaks
volumes.  :)

>  <<we may have to agree to disagree on this one.>>
> Yes, I think if you refer back to the original post that started this, you 
> will see where I'm coming from.

yes, i understand.  but again, having installed several proper
harnesses in daily-driven cars, i don't think they're all that
much more impractical or difficult to use than the schroth, and
we both agree that they're safer.

hopefully, none of us here will ever have to find out firsthand
how good the belts are.


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