[200q20v] RE: Turbo - & a Shameless S-Car Nationals Plug

mlp mlped at qwest.net
Fri Aug 24 12:04:36 EDT 2001

Sorry Eric, I'm getting a little behind in stuff.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric_R_Kissell at email.whirlpool.com
> [mailto:Eric_R_Kissell at email.whirlpool.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 6:34 AM
> To: mlped at qwest.net
> Subject: Turbo
> Mike,
> Would you provide more information about what you did
> regarding a custom
> turbo?
I had two different configurations fabricated by (1) a group that has
become Innovative Turbos out of California; and (2) a second unit by
TEC (Turbo Engineering Corp) located in golden Colorado.

> Things I am interested in knowing:
> Specifically which turbo with what modifications are you
> using on what
> car?
Both turbochargers are going on slightly different UrS4's.  One is a
stock displacement 2.2 liter (a standard 81mm x 86.4mm stroke five
cylinder engine); the other is a larger displacement 2.6 liter engine
(82mm x 95.5mm 5 cylinder engine.)

> Did Huntly do it for you?
> What did it cost?
I can't really provide you a "firm" number that would mean anything as
to a "cost" that you might expect to see if you went to a shop & asked
for a "turbo" as I independently sourced part of the parts (the 2.7
liter turbo) &/or cobbled together different parts (the TEC turbo &
the 2.7 liter unit.)  Ball park?? I'd guess @ $1400 - $1500, but YMMV,
and my guess is that the price may vary depending on a number of
'service &/or expertise' factors, not to mention ancillary
"accessories" that might be need to fit a particular turbocharger to
your application, i.e. hoses and lines etc., mounting flanges &/or
down pipe issues.

> What bolted right up and what custom fabrication was required?
Its complicated.  None of what I've done "bolts right up" to a UrS4
"stock" or RS2 exhaust manifold, though the 2.7 liter turbo I suppose
could bolt directly to the stock/RS2 exhaust manifold parts, but I
believe its exhaust port would be too large a diameter to fit the
stock down pipe flange and fittings; and the TEC unit could be set up
for the "stock" exhaust manifold sizes.

> What horsepower/torque/drivability gains were there?
> Low end?
> Top end?

Eric, I don't know that anyone I know of really, truly knows for a
fact "real" figures for these numbers.  There's a lot of opinions out
there about what their "tuner" or chipset mfg "thinks" their chip(s),
&/or manifold,  &/or down pipe, &/or 3" exhaust system (or dual 2.5"
or ????), &/or down pipe plus  3" exhaust, &/or down pipe plus exhaust
plus performance &/or gutted cats, &/or all the above plus a RS2 or 7A
exhaust cam.

As far as the last round of modifications, the TEC "big" turbo has
just gone on the 2.2 liter engine car within the last 2 months.  Over
that time, the engine has been going through a 2,500-3,000 mile
break-in, during which boost has been limited to waste gate spring
pressure alone (say @ lbs. max), but as you probably know, without
electronic controls, the spring will mechanically start to "leak off"
boost well before lbs..  The electronic boost controls have just
recently been hooked back up, and the car is presently been driven by
a nameless team of tuning geeks (well lets call them Mutt & Jeff) who
are playing about with the boost thresholds and fuel system parameters

I've no idea what the TEC turbo will do (although as of last week, I
guess it should be "now does") when it is finally set up and tuned for
the car.  TEC doesn't want to release or supply a compressor (cold
side) map; instead they tell me I will have to be satisfied with their
assurances that the compressor wheel on the turbo can/will efficiently
pump enough air to adequately support between 420 to 450 bhp, perhaps
a bit more depending partly on which hot side turbine wheel and
housing is used.  I do know that based on about a week of driving on
the waste gate spring alone during the break in period, it will push
more air than the stock waste gate can completely effectively by pass
:-), I take that as a "good" sign as far a potential power goes.

The other, larger turbo for the 2.6 liter application is sitting in
the car waiting for the rest of the pieces to be bolted up.  It, the
turbo, is said (supposed) to be capable of pushing at least enough air
to take an engine to 500bhp, and perhaps significantly past that
number.  BUT, my personal feeling is as you really start to push the
limits of any one component (i.e., the "Well, let's just put a great
big honking turbo on the beast and see what it'll do...... theory of
tuning), you quickly max out your other, related parts in the engine
system and, at an increasingly accelerated pace (probably at an
exponentially increasing rate) run into the "A pipe is only as big as
its SMALLEST diameter / A chain only as strong as its weakest link"

All lot of these speculations and claims about bhp and torque await a
litmus test on the 4WD dyno which is supposed to be up & running for
the S-Car National events in Boulder/Broomfield/Golden Colorado over
the up coming 31-August / 2-Sept weekend.  You should be there ....

> Is this shown on a web site somewhere?

> TIA,
> Eric R. Kissell
> 1986 5000cstq, 1.8 bar, K24
> 1989 200 q Avant, 1.5 bar, K24
> 1987 VW GTI 16v, 1984cc

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