[200q20v] Fwd: -- Pentosin No More --

C1J1Miller at aol.com C1J1Miller at aol.com
Sat Dec 15 18:29:51 EST 2001


Chris Miller, Windham NH USA, c1j1miller at aol.com
'91 200q20v ==> http://members.aol.com/c1j1miller/index.html
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 13:48:58 -0800
Reply-To: Ned at IntendedAcceleration.com
Sender: AUDI-NW-owner at u.washington.edu
Precedence: bulk
From: "Ned Ritchie" <Ned at IntendedAcceleration.com>
To: "northwest audi enthusiasts" <audi-nw at u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: -- Pentosin No More --
In-Reply-To: <001701c18502$84488ae0$0b00a8c0 at killerb>

Info from my contact in the UK.

"I'm afraid I don't know the pentosin grade but 13m is a high quality
mutigrade iso32 hyd oil, that is not normally used in power steering
systems. As it is the weekend I don't have access to the database but I
wouldn't recommend it as a replacement. I have just checked the pentosin
web site and can say that 13m is not a replacement"

-----Original Message-----
From: AUDI-NW-owner at u.washington.edu
[mailto:AUDI-NW-owner at u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Joseph Rae
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 4:51 PM
To: northwest audi enthusiasts
Subject: FW: -- Pentosin No More --

Hey Everybody,

This was sent to the national list. This caught my attention, as I will
be swapping out a bomb and replacing leaking hydraulic hoses next week,
and am wondering if anyone has used this stuff.
I would tend to trust Mobil.... Has anyone used this stuff instead of
pentosin for the Long-term?
If I can find it in the Seattle area I may give it a try next week.


-----Original Message-----
From: quattro-admin at audifans.com [mailto:quattro-admin at audifans.com] On
Behalf Of Brett Dikeman
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 4:13 PM
To: quattro at audifans.com
Cc: 200q20v at audifans.com
Subject: -- Pentosin No More --

The Big Baby is now officially Pentosin Free.  Let's put the term
"liquid gold" into retirement, shall we?   Read on.

I just completed a flush of the system...using something that(gasp!)
wasn't Pentosin.

Instead, following recommendations from Cobram and a few others, I
called up a local lubrication oil supplier and asked for Mobil DTE-13M.
Swung by and picked it up.  Took note of the very new A6 sitting in an
unmarked, but clearly, "owner of the place" position. I like these folks

With MA sales tax(5%), I paid about $45.  Or, roughly, what 2.8 quarts
of Pentosin would run you.  Here's the thing...I had bought FIVE

Total price, per quart(liter and a quart are very close in volume), of
this 5 gallon bucket of DTE-13M, which is identical in all
numbers+specs to Pentosin, at $16/liter?


Or, roughly half what people pay for a quart of Mobil 1 engine oil!

The guy in shipping and receiving pointed towards the bucket the second
I stepped inside; they had pulled it from stock while I moved my car to
the loading dock.  Excellent service.  He noticed I was practically
bursting at the seams with giddiness.

   "I'd say have a good weekend, but looks like you're already doin'
pretty good.  What's the deal?"  I explained that if the bucket I was
taking from him was full of the "required" "official" fluid for my
hydraulic system, it would be worth more than $300, and the DTE-13M was
a drop-in replacement.  He was blown away.

   "What's they do ya for on this, $20-30?"  "Little more, $45." "Hah.
No wonder you look happy.  How much did you need...what's it used for?"
"Power steering and brake assist, its a turbo, so they do brake assist
hydraulically.  Whole system is I think around 4-6 quarts total, very
roughly."  "Well, you're set for a couple of years."

Upon getting it home, I popped the pour spout out and noticed, with a
pleasant surprise, that this fluid is almost completely clear.  Which
means that figuring out when it's in need of changing is a -total- snap,
among other things; if it's brown/black, its time to go.  Yep, its still
quite visible in the tank so checking levels isn't a problem.

After FINALLY(one hour) getting the front lower hose connection off the
tank(and knocking the distributor in the process, son of a @#$%#
!) I  snuck a piece of dishwasher drain hose down under the car to a oil
pan;  a small bowl underneath the connection caught the splashes of
fluid from both the tank and the line from the pump(only a small amount
of fluid comes out of the hose, and I capped the tank fitting with my
finger but you spill some; this is certainly a glove job, very messy),
then drained the tank into the dishwasher hose.  Pumped the brake pedal
-many- times(you know you have a good bomb when your foot's getting
tired before the pedal gets hard), reconnected the line to the pump
slightly(its either a suction of return line, eithe case, -very- low
pressure) and filled up the tank to the tippy top. Started the car,
turned the wheel stop-to-stop several times after watching the fluid get
sucked into the bomb(you can watch the fluid level jump down as the bomb
charges up; raise the idle for a good 30 seconds to fully charge the
bomb, this is -important-!)  If you fill the tank almost to the tippy
top, you'll end up with a perfect level if the bomb has been emptied.

Repeated this process a few times(4 I think total) and went through 4
quarts of fluid total or less.  By the end, I had hydraulic fluid with a
very slight green tinge to it, so I had pretty well diluted the original

 From the first flush, looks like there was some sediment etc.  The old
fluid clearly had something bouncing around in it.

Some side notes.

-only time will tell how the rack+pump like it, but other listers report
running the stuff for years; similarly, only time will tell how this
stuff cleans up, if it dries up like pentosin, etc.  While I was under
there, I was able to do a decent amount of cleanup, so in a few months,
I'll know -I have no idea if rack+pump rebuilders will consider this
fluid acceptable. Considering Mobil and others list it as a
drop-in-replacement, they'd be hard pressed to argue... -with the stuff
this cheap, frequent flushings are possible, and should assure clean
fluid...hopefully a good long life on the seals of the rack and the pump
o-rings will result. -I have no idea if the stuff is harmful to painted
surfaces.  I doubt it, but keep things clean around the car. -has a
flammability rating of 1, other areas in the hazard sign are 0 or not
even listed, so its pretty harmless.  Still, since pretty much all
petrochemicals are hazardous long-term, wear gloves and wash your hands
etc...as you should when working with motor oil(esp used, which contains
even more nasties than fresh stuff!), don't let rags soaked in the stuff
hang around, etc.

I'm currently working on the problem of "manageability."  Until I had
used 2 quarts, even with the pour spout on the container, I ended up
making a pretty big mess transferring the stuff to a smaller container
to pour into the tank on the car.  It's also not practical to ship a 5
gallon container, nor does everyone want/need that much or have the
luxury of storage space to tuck such a large container somewhere.  I
suspect one of the lube oil suppliers could be convinced to have one of
their guys spend an hour divvying up part of a 55 gallon drum into, say,
1 gallon containers that can be boxed or shipped.  They can tack on a
profit for themselves and still beat Pentosin by a landslide...

I've heard rumors of another NE tech session this spring, and I'm
planning on going to the winter driving school; as a heads up to people
that might be interested, I'd be happy to pick up several buckets of
DTE-13M and bring them with me(at most 15gal, I'd say, maybe a little
more.)  We could introduce a small per-gallon "list funding tax" and
help the list out at the same time we save money. I'm sure a few others
in various parts of the country could be convinced to do the same when
they attend big qlist shindigs.  All you'd have to do is bring with you
a nice sturdy container with a good cap on it...and all the
"distributor" would have to do is find a good self-venting pour-spout

I shall report back more later.  If you're planning on being at either
of the above events and you're interested, drop me a line and let me
know how much you'd like.  You will be paying for a contribution to the
list and a -very- small contribution to me for my trouble, so expect a
little more than $2.25/qt.  You will need to supply your OWN container,
I'm not going to handle that part.

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin
http://www.users.cloud9.net/~brett/bdikeman.asc (PGP Public Key)

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