[200q20v] DTE-13M is not the same as Pentosin 11S(important)

Brett Dikeman brett at cloud9.net
Mon Dec 17 01:21:11 EST 2001

Indirectly(which steams me somewhat), someone who shall remain
nameless found a problem with DTE-13M, and posted on the NW Audi and
decided not to share with myself, nor the main quattro and 200q20v
lists(my email was forwarded, complete with headers, to the NW list,
so it was clear where the information came from and where it went.)
A thank you goes to Chris Miller who noticed I was not cc'd, and
forwarded me a copy of the email to the NW list.

   Apparently it was discovered that DTE-13M doesn't carry the same
specs as Pentosin 11S as far as temperature ranges are concerned(I
didn't read the rather lengthy email completely, it was almost 80kb,
but I think that was "the big one.")  Namely, DTE-13M has a working
range up to about 158 degrees; Pentosin 11S is well over 200 degrees
F(250 I think?)

I could have -sworn- that I checked the numbers myself and they were
identical, but performing a new search, I can't find the original
page I studied, and found instead a page at Mobil, for the "10M"
series, that clearly shows a temperature chart.  I will be digging
some more.

It's quite possible that this is easily explained by 7S having a much
lower specs, and at the time some of the emails were written, 7S was
still in popular use; the two are probably much more even since
they're both mineral oils.  It is also possible, but more unlikely,
that Mobil has in the years that have gone by, reformulated 13M and
its specs have changed.
   There is another explanation, which is that Mobil states working
ranges as temps under which "75% of normal operation is
possible"(when too cold, its difficult for the pump to pull it, too
hot, and its too thin to be pumped well, if I read correctly.)
That's -very- different from "breaks down into stuff that looks like
The Blob."  Maybe Pentosin's temp ranges are based on the same
criteria, maybe not.  Point is, if you dumped the stuff in your car
over the weekend, it's not going to explode, nor do you need, I
believe, to worry about flushing it out any time soon.  There are
some listers who have been using this stuff for a while, in several
cars(I think Cobram mentioned five audis) without incident.

   Still, I can't stand by my original  recommendation that everyone
switch to this stuff.  If it has the same specs as 7S, then that's
probably great for people whose cars originally used it; very late
80's cars spec 11S instead.  Maybe its just "better", maybe they
actually need 11S...

My apologies to the list for this; I was blatantly wrong about them
having "identical specs."  If you live in a mild climate, DTE-13M
looks like it might be fine.  If you see temperatures below 4 degrees
F, this stuff isn't for you; neither is this the stuff for people who
live in really hot states, though, unlike the cold limit, I can't
specifically say what is "too hot" a climate for this stuff; 158
degrees is obviously well away from most climate conditions, but the
oil could get substantially hotter than ambient, I just don't know.

But, don't get your hopes down just yet.  Tomorrow, I'm going to call
Mobil's customer information line with the specs sheet for Pentosin
11S in hand; they might have a different oil that is more
suitable(SHC500 looks like a possibility; good to below -20, and up
to 121C, which should be plenty, its synthetic, etc; I couldn't find
any detailed specs so this is totally up in the air), and, if we're
really lucky, still priced well below 11S(even if a synthetic lube
appropriate for this application were FOUR TIMES the cost of DTE-13M,
it would STILL be HALF of the cost of Pentosin 11S!)

PS:Someone who attended SEMA dropped me a line and said a ZF rep said
their seals were originally designed for 10w30 motor oil, nothing
special(the question originated as why the same rebuilt rack is
recommended for both ATF and Pentosin based Audis.)  What an amusing
thought; go figu...Hey!  Put that bottle back on the shelf! :-)
"They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin
http://www.users.cloud9.net/~brett/bdikeman.asc	(PGP Public Key)

More information about the 200q20v mailing list