[200q20v] Re: DTE-13M is not the same as Pentosin 11S(important)

Aaron Gibson crankshaft at adelphia.net
Mon Dec 17 06:59:49 EST 2001

I rushed right out and changed my fluid based on  your recommendation. Now
my rack is making all kinds of noise and puking nasty goo on the driveway.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brett Dikeman" <brett at cloud9.net>
To: <quattro at audifans.com>
Cc: <200q20v at audifans.com>
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 1:21 AM
Subject: DTE-13M is not the same as Pentosin 11S(important)

> Indirectly(which steams me somewhat), someone who shall remain
> nameless found a problem with DTE-13M, and posted on the NW Audi and
> decided not to share with myself, nor the main quattro and 200q20v
> lists(my email was forwarded, complete with headers, to the NW list,
> so it was clear where the information came from and where it went.)
> A thank you goes to Chris Miller who noticed I was not cc'd, and
> forwarded me a copy of the email to the NW list.
>    Apparently it was discovered that DTE-13M doesn't carry the same
> specs as Pentosin 11S as far as temperature ranges are concerned(I
> didn't read the rather lengthy email completely, it was almost 80kb,
> but I think that was "the big one.")  Namely, DTE-13M has a working
> range up to about 158 degrees; Pentosin 11S is well over 200 degrees
> F(250 I think?)
> I could have -sworn- that I checked the numbers myself and they were
> identical, but performing a new search, I can't find the original
> page I studied, and found instead a page at Mobil, for the "10M"
> series, that clearly shows a temperature chart.  I will be digging
> some more.
> It's quite possible that this is easily explained by 7S having a much
> lower specs, and at the time some of the emails were written, 7S was
> still in popular use; the two are probably much more even since
> they're both mineral oils.  It is also possible, but more unlikely,
> that Mobil has in the years that have gone by, reformulated 13M and
> its specs have changed.
>    There is another explanation, which is that Mobil states working
> ranges as temps under which "75% of normal operation is
> possible"(when too cold, its difficult for the pump to pull it, too
> hot, and its too thin to be pumped well, if I read correctly.)
> That's -very- different from "breaks down into stuff that looks like
> The Blob."  Maybe Pentosin's temp ranges are based on the same
> criteria, maybe not.  Point is, if you dumped the stuff in your car
> over the weekend, it's not going to explode, nor do you need, I
> believe, to worry about flushing it out any time soon.  There are
> some listers who have been using this stuff for a while, in several
> cars(I think Cobram mentioned five audis) without incident.
>    Still, I can't stand by my original  recommendation that everyone
> switch to this stuff.  If it has the same specs as 7S, then that's
> probably great for people whose cars originally used it; very late
> 80's cars spec 11S instead.  Maybe its just "better", maybe they
> actually need 11S...
> My apologies to the list for this; I was blatantly wrong about them
> having "identical specs."  If you live in a mild climate, DTE-13M
> looks like it might be fine.  If you see temperatures below 4 degrees
> F, this stuff isn't for you; neither is this the stuff for people who
> live in really hot states, though, unlike the cold limit, I can't
> specifically say what is "too hot" a climate for this stuff; 158
> degrees is obviously well away from most climate conditions, but the
> oil could get substantially hotter than ambient, I just don't know.
> But, don't get your hopes down just yet.  Tomorrow, I'm going to call
> Mobil's customer information line with the specs sheet for Pentosin
> 11S in hand; they might have a different oil that is more
> suitable(SHC500 looks like a possibility; good to below -20, and up
> to 121C, which should be plenty, its synthetic, etc; I couldn't find
> any detailed specs so this is totally up in the air), and, if we're
> really lucky, still priced well below 11S(even if a synthetic lube
> appropriate for this application were FOUR TIMES the cost of DTE-13M,
> it would STILL be HALF of the cost of Pentosin 11S!)
> B
> PS:Someone who attended SEMA dropped me a line and said a ZF rep said
> their seals were originally designed for 10w30 motor oil, nothing
> special(the question originated as why the same rebuilt rack is
> recommended for both ATF and Pentosin based Audis.)  What an amusing
> thought; go figu...Hey!  Put that bottle back on the shelf! :-)
> --
> ----
> "They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary
> safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin
> http://www.users.cloud9.net/~brett/
> http://www.users.cloud9.net/~brett/bdikeman.asc (PGP Public Key)

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