[200q20v] Final thoughts on this caliper/rotor thing

Michael (Prospeed Motorsports) michael at prospeedmktggrp.com
Tue Nov 20 09:33:34 EST 2001

Thanks to all who have responded in support on my position. And thanks
to those who have taken the time and effort to thank me for the
straight, fact-based information on the various Porsche brake rotors and

Just to clear the air in case anyone was thinking otherwise, I have no
vested interested, like Scott (and others,) as to this conversation and
its results. I don't sell or market rotors, adapters and/or hats to this
(Audi) market. Although it is a statement of fact that the calipers I
recondition and paint could certainly be purchased and used by someone
in this market, it is not my focus. I focus on the Porsche market, with
a specific niche with the 968.

This will be my last post on this subject. I will not be replying to the
list any further regarding this issue. I have only stated facts and
there seem to be some out there that don't like the facts. Sorry folks,
but you can't change the facts because you come up with some sort of
mental or mathematical rationalization.

Scott, you're a very smart guy and truly know the Audi turbo engines,
how to modify them and many other Audi related performance issues. I
can't think of anyone other than possibly a factory technician that may
know more.

That said, Scott, the only things you have demonstrated in your recent
posts are, one; that different pads have different thicknesses and two;
that you have, what I perceive to be, a serious need to be right.  You
haven't offered one FACT that even takes a stab at suggesting the family
of Porsche/Brembo calipers designed to work with a 32 mm or 34 mm thick
rotor were designed or intended to work with anything other than these
thicknesses. And in this case, your opinions are NOT right and you are
clearly in the (exceedingly small) minority (as compared to the major
brake system manufacturers and most aftermarket brake upgrade suppliers)
to your thoughts and position on the subject.

The irrefutable truth is, and there is absolutely nothing you can say or
do that will ever change this fact, the calipers in question were NEVER
designed to work correctly and safely with anything other than (in the
case of the S4 and Big Red caliper) a 32 mm thick rotor (or 34 mm in the
case of the 996TT monobloc caliper.) This is my position, the position
of Brembo North America, the position of PCNA (Porsche Cars North
America) and the position of every major Brembo distributor in the U.S.A
I have recently spoken with.

What I don't understand (and please don't answer, because I, frankly,
don't care) is why a guy as smart as you, who, in previous posts on
engine issues over the years, has chided others for doing things
incorrectly, would put together a brake package that is incorrect and
improper from the get go. Personally, if I were your customer, I would
be handing the entire brake upgrade package back to you, asking what the
H_ll were you thinking and talking to my lawyer. All that needs to
happen is for one failure to occur and you could lose everything you own
because you threw some components together that were never intended
and/or designed to work together. I don't know about you, but I take the
subject of liability VERY seriously. Liability is but one of the reasons
every brake system I do retains not only the correct sized components,
but even the front to rear piston size ratio. (Which is something else
you & and I have talked about via this list and you have completely
discounted.) And liability aside, people have trusted you to do the
right thing for their cars. IMO, you have knowingly done exactly the
opposite of that.

And I also don't care what any others have done. Incorrectly sized
components are incorrectly sized components. Period. Just because a
bunch of folks are doing it does not make the system correct or reduce
the potential risk associated with such. You have put together a system
that is, according to folks other than just me, potentially unsafe.

Your clientele have the $$ to do things right. You (and evidently,
others, like 2Bennett, etc.) could have easily put together a system
that used the correct sized components. For example, you could have
designed a hat that worked with the 993tt front rotor. This would have
been simple, everything would have fit and been sized correctly, future
parts could have been purchased over the counter and the cost would not
have been prohibitive. Or you could have had a custom sized rotor made
by Coleman. If you're selling more than just a few brake upgrades, the
cost per unit is not prohibitive. Or you could have worked together with
BIRA in ordering the custom rotors.

The facts of the brake upgrade aftermarket is there are many that throw
together some components without considering all the factors involved. I
have said this before and I say it again. If you were to read "Brake
Systems" by Mike Mavrigian and Larry Carley and "The Brake Disc Manual"
by Jean-Paul Pompon you would possibly see the error in your (braking)

As many have asked for source information, anyone interested can
purchase the S4 (what this list refers to as the 993) calipers for $375
ea., the Big Reds for $279 ea., 993tt two piece rotors for $125 ea. and
the 996tt monoblocs for $325 ea. from Crescent City Porsche. I have no
vested interest in them. I use them whenever I have a need for factory
parts. They typically have the best prices in the US and Jon Scheurich
(Parts Mgr) is a good guy to work with. Their #800.966.7222.

One should be able to put together a Big Red front upgrade for (parts,
calipers and rotors, $808, adapters should not be more than $225 - $250
and hats should be $400 - $500 pr) not more than $1558, not including
shipping, pads and fluid.

Michael G. Wachholz
Prospeed Motorsports

952.249.1169 office
952.475.3267 fax

400 Pond Ridge Circle
Wayzata, MN 55391

mailto:michael at prospeedmktggrp.com

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