New Member, Not a new Audi owner

Freed, David (Exchange) dfreed at
Thu Jun 13 14:03:56 EDT 2002

Wow, you guys slag each other as much as they do on the S-Car list.  I feel
at home here.

I must congratulate Bernie on the record for cheapest UFO brake maintenance
costs I've ever seen.  I can't even do that well with my G60's.  Never even
a rotor replaced or warped?  I'd never want to upgrade if I could do that.
I had to replace all 4 rotors on my last S4 brake job at 80,000 miles.  4
cross-drilled rotors and Mintex pads was about $325 plus my time.

The reason these got upgraded at 18,000 miles is the dealer couldn't stop
the major amount of brake pulsing from (I assume) warped rotors.  The dealer
should know how to make them work and couldn't.  So much for dealer
capabilities (No one here looks surprised at that).  Yes the conversion to
Big Reds is now available for UFO's but they aren't much more expensive than
the S4 struts.  It's just plain expensive to go Big Reds.  Worth it but
costly.  And even good UFO's don't hold a candle to Porsche Turbo brakes.
If only Audi put that quality on our cars originally. Can anyone say RS6 - 8
piston calipers on all Audis.  Then call AoA and convince them.  And the RS6
could get Big Yellow ceramic brakes as stock.  Audi brakes have always been
their weak point, especially with the engine hanging so far out front.


-----Original Message-----
From: 200q20v-request at [mailto:200q20v-request at]
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 12:13 PM
To: 200q20v at
Subject: 200q20v digest, Vol 1 #983 - 1 msg

Today's Topics:

   1. Re: New Member, Not a new Audi owner (Bernie Benz)


Message: 1
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 08:40:14 -0700
Subject: Re: New Member, Not a new Audi owner
From: Bernie Benz <b.m.benz at>
To: Chris Covington <malth at>
Cc: 200q20V mailing list <200q20v at>

So, you've lived with your free brake downgrade for how many years, because
you may at some point in the future spring for an expensive brake upgrade,
which is now available for the UFO system also?


> From: Chris Covington <malth at>
> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 11:12:44 -0400 (EDT)
> To: Bernie Benz <b.m.benz at>
> Cc: 200q20V mailing list <200q20v at>
> Subject: Re: New Member, Not a new Audi owner
> Oh, and another plus of going with the G60 free swapout is that not only
> do you get a new front braking system, and struts, but you also get a
> cheaper / more hassle-free upgrade path to Porsche brakes.  All that for
> free.
> Chris
> '91 200q20v
> On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Bernie Benz wrote:
>> Chris,  In 100K I've spent a whole $65. (too much, I admit) for new pads
>> my UFOs, that's all.  So, the G60s were a free downgrade!  Was that good?
>> Even if it was $2K worth of downgrade parts.
>> Bernie
>>> From: Chris Covington <malth at>
>>> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 10:19:42 -0400 (EDT)
>>> To: Bernie Benz <b.m.benz at>
>>> Cc: "Freed, David (Exchange)" <dfreed at>, 200q20V mailing list
>>> <200q20v at>
>>> Subject: Re: New Member, Not a new Audi owner
>>> Bernie, not everyone has as fat a wallet as yours and likes to afford
>>> more expensive maintenance on the UFOs vs. the G60s.  So when the G60s
>>> were a free switchout, and came with free new hardware (incl. new
>>> pads, rotors, calipers, etc. - those all add up to some serious $$$
>>> saved) vs. however many miles one had on their UFOs and the other
>>> associated components, I didn't have a problem with that.
>>> I guess if I had the fat wallet syndrome and liked to spend more like
>>> you, then I'd be fine with keeping the UFOs, worn struts, pads, etc.
>>> I don't.
>>> Chris
>>> '91 200q20v
>>> On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, Bernie Benz wrote:
>>>> Not suprising.  I've always been a proponent of UFOs vs. G60s because
>>>> the
>>>> 15% braking torque UFO advantage due to its larger rotor diameter,
>>>> area remains the same.  Paying for a real upgrade in braking torque and
>>>> heat
>>>> capacity, as you are planning, can possibably be justified but paying
>>>> or even allowing Audi to to so to you for a down grade is beyoud my
>>>> comprehension.
>>>> Bernie
>>>>> From: "Freed, David (Exchange)" <dfreed at>
>>>>> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 14:11:00 -0400
>>>>> To: "'Bernie Benz'" <b.m.benz at>
>>>>> Subject: RE: New Member, Not a new Audi owner
>>>>> I find that your opinion of the UFO "upgrade" is surprising.
>>>>> the
>>>>> UFO's are better but very few people can get them to brake smoothly
>>>>> consistently.  And parts (and labor) are VERY expensive.  That's why
>>>>> was
>>>>> changed under warranty.  I'm not happy with the brakes on my S4 either
>>>>> when I used new rotors and pads both front and rear, I got a firm
>>>>> with
>>>>> fairly strong stopping power.  I just wouldn't trust them at the
>>>>> But
>>>>> that's why the S4 will be getting the Big Reds when the budget will
>>>>> it.  The 200TQW will probably remain mostly stock.
>>>>> Dave
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Bernie Benz [mailto:b.m.benz at]
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 1:48 PM
>>>>> To: Freed, David (Exchange)
>>>>> Cc: 200q20V mailing list
>>>>> Subject: Re: New Member, Not a new Audi owner
>>>>> Two comments, Dave.
>>>>> Audi's "fix" conversion from UFOs to G60s, IMO, was a downgrade, not
>>>>> upgrade in braking performance.
>>>>> Rotary shaft seals:  If a seal is leaking and no other internal
>>>>> shch as bad noises, add a half a can of engine seal restorer the rear
>>>>> and the other half into the tranny.  Of course this works on engine
>>>>> seals also.  Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
>>>>> Bernie
>>>>>> From: "Freed, David (Exchange)" <dfreed at>
>>>>>> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 11:54:20 -0400
>>>>>> To: "'200q20v List'" <200q20v at>
>>>>>> Subject: New Member, Not a new Audi owner
>>>>>> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not
>>>>>> understand
>>>>>> this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> I just joined this mailing list because I just got a new (to me) '91
>>>>> TQ
>>>>>> Avant in Indigo Mica (I've corrected my previous error of Lago) with
>>>>>> leather and 114,000 miles.  The body and interior are in excellent
>>>>> and
>>>>>> a previous owner had the UFO upgraded to S4 front brakes plus a
>>>>> chip.
>>>>>> I've already received congrats from several list members because I
>>>>> own
>>>>>> a '93 S4 and belong to the S-Car list.  I've include my original post
>>>>> the
>>>>>> S-Car list as an introduction.
>>>>>> Here's my problem:
>>>>>> There is a leak coming from the Right Rear differential seal.  Is
this a
>>>>>> common seal failure or a sign of internal wear that could cost big

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