From C1J1Miller at aol.com Wed May 1 01:27:37 2002 From: C1J1Miller at aol.com (C1J1Miller@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:57 2003 Subject: "valet mode" Message-ID: <108.11102758.2a00c8b9@aol.com> Could also rig a ground switch to the MFTS to give a false "overheat" signal; no A/C and no WGFV? Have to look at what's involved and what codes are thrown. ____________________________________________________ Chris Miller, Bolton MA USA, c1j1miller@aol.com '91 200q20v ==> http://members.aol.com/c1j1miller/index.html ____________________________________________________ From vegener at post7.tele.dk Wed May 1 10:57:35 2002 From: vegener at post7.tele.dk (Claus Vegener) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:57 2003 Subject: ticking noise References: <001201c1f0b1$ac71c7a0$32f3c243@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <002901c1f0e5$db64d500$0400a8c0@cvmob> Last week - after run 2 at Knutstorp Raceway (Sweden) I had a ticking noise when I vas lining up in the pit for next run. Stopped when I stopped the engine; but not followed the rpms. Switching off the SEAT-HEATER cured the problem. (And I got a 3. after a BMW M5 and a Lotus Elise) Claus ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vincenzo Basile" To: <200q20v@audifans.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 3:43 AM Subject: ticking noise This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Hello list, I have two questions ,First:after start up maybe 30 sec. or so my car seems to make a intermittent ticking noise that doesn't seem to go away for a few (don't know exactly) minutes or until i actually go for a drive.What could this be, manifold,valves or maybe something else? How do I find out? My second question is my car really smells like rotten eggs after hard exceleration,could this be the start of cat problems or something else? thanx in advance for help -- _______________________________________________ 200q20v mailing list 200q20v@audifans.com http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From eyvind.spangen at c2i.net Wed May 1 12:46:28 2002 From: eyvind.spangen at c2i.net (Eyvind Spangen) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:57 2003 Subject: insurance In-Reply-To: <20020429211651.64140.qmail@web10408.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020429211651.64140.qmail@web10408.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 29 Apr 2002 14:16:51 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >I just got a 91 200q 20vt. I've very suprised by the >cost of insurance. For full coverage I'm paying $205 a >month. I just don't understand why it's so high. How >much do you guys pay? I have to pay $1325/year without collision coverage, but this is in Europe.. I'm 21, not married, college student (how the *** can I afford that car!?), no accidents. I should have had collision coverage, but that will cost me an additional $1200/year. Right now, my mom "owns" my car and has got the insurance, she only has to pay (well, I pay) $450/year with _everything_.. It helps to be female, past 50 etc. etc.. :-) -- E. Spangen '90 Audi 200TQ 20v (godt parkert i l?ven uten skilter) '96 Sykkel, drevet av '81 fattig student From fundsaloracing at yahoo.com Wed May 1 04:21:50 2002 From: fundsaloracing at yahoo.com (Fundsalo Racing) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:57 2003 Subject: insurance In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020501102150.62436.qmail@web13603.mail.yahoo.com> I pay about $500US per YEAR for full coverage. -glen OOOO --- Eyvind Spangen wrote: > On Mon, 29 Apr 2002 14:16:51 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: > > >I just got a 91 200q 20vt. I've very suprised by > the > >cost of insurance. For full coverage I'm paying > $205 a > >month. I just don't understand why it's so high. > How > >much do you guys pay? > > I have to pay $1325/year without collision coverage, > but this is in > Europe.. I'm 21, not married, college student (how > the *** can I > afford that car!?), no accidents. I should have had > collision > coverage, but that will cost me an additional > $1200/year. Right now, > my mom "owns" my car and has got the insurance, she > only has to pay > (well, I pay) $450/year with _everything_.. It helps > to be female, > past 50 etc. etc.. :-) > > -- > E. Spangen > '90 Audi 200TQ 20v (godt parkert i låven uten > skilter) > '96 Sykkel, drevet av '81 fattig student > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v ===== -glen "Upon common theaters, indeed, the applause of the audience is of more importance to the actors than their own approbation. But upon the stage of life, while conscience claps, let the world hiss! On the contrary if conscience dissapproves, the loudest applause of the world are of little value." John Adams OOOO __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com From fundsaloracing at yahoo.com Wed May 1 04:34:03 2002 From: fundsaloracing at yahoo.com (Fundsalo Racing) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:57 2003 Subject: Was insurance..now big wheel talk In-Reply-To: <20020430183825.3557.h010.c001.wm@mail.weetamoo.com.criticalpath.net> Message-ID: <20020501103403.11714.qmail@web13604.mail.yahoo.com> Anyone know where the framistan is located in our automobiles? Thanks! -glen OOOO --- maximum@weetamoo.com wrote: > On Tue, 30 April 2002, Dan Simoes wrote > > > > > Of course, there is no such thing as a muffler > bearing, and that $150 > > went towards this week's supply of Tuckerman's Ale > and pretzels :) > > Well, it used to, until my buddy Dan blew my cover. > Nice going! > > Royal > > PS: Now that's f-in funny! > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v ===== -glen "Upon common theaters, indeed, the applause of the audience is of more importance to the actors than their own approbation. But upon the stage of life, while conscience claps, let the world hiss! On the contrary if conscience dissapproves, the loudest applause of the world are of little value." John Adams OOOO __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com From webmaster at ford-escortmkv.co.uk Wed May 1 13:25:30 2002 From: webmaster at ford-escortmkv.co.uk (webmaster) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:57 2003 Subject: Sos! Message-ID: <7754DC3F9E2.AAA36CD@fbsun.fbento.pt> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] ------------------ Virus Warning Message (on www.audifans.com) Found virus WORM_KLEZ.H in file Rbwf.pif The uncleanable file Rbwf.pif is moved to /etc/iscan/virus/virGIANoKTo_. --------------------------------------------------------- From root at localhost.audifans.com Wed May 1 08:47:58 2002 From: root at localhost.audifans.com (root@localhost.audifans.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:57 2003 Subject: Virus Alert Message-ID: <20020501114758.3423C32A@www.audifans.com> Have detected a virus (WORM_KLEZ.H) in your mail traffic on 05/01/2002 07:47:54 with an action quarantined. From peschulz at cisco.com Wed May 1 10:06:08 2002 From: peschulz at cisco.com (Peter Schulz) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:57 2003 Subject: Warning: Long replyRe: Ignition switch help please In-Reply-To: <3ccf55c7.6c8.0@lanset.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020501085600.0374e100@millcity.cisco.com> At 07:47 PM 4/30/2002 -0700, you wrote: >Hi, Im new to this list and this is my first post. I picked up a 1990 200 tq >yesterday and it has a bad ignition switch. > >I am trying to replace the plastic electrical part of the switch, but I am >having >trouble getting it off. I have it unplugged, but I cant seem to get the >plastic >part off. If anyone has any advice on how to get it off, pictures, diagrams, >or any type of explanation would be appreciated. Thanks a lot. > >~Mike >1990 Audi 200 tq >_______________________________________________________________________ >Free Domain Name Registration with Web Hosting at Lanset Communications. >56k Dialup, Web Design, and Colocation at http://www.lanset.net >_______________________________________________ >200q20v mailing list >200q20v@audifans.com >http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v Mike: You did not mention whether your car has an airbag. If it does - the Bentley manual will be helpful, but not entirely accurate - you can not access the two recessed philips screws that hold the plastic switch in the lock cylinder housing without removing the knee brace, steering wheel and rotating the steering wheel shaft/lock housing down to where you can access it from the kick panel area. I do have an update to the procedure - the steering wheel shaft is held to the dash assembly by a tapered slide joint - I belive that the concept is that it will allow shaft compression during a front end accident. when re-installing the shaft, ensure that it is securely fastened back into position, by either tapping on the rear of the housing (from the kick panel area) with a hammer and wood block, or try using a large clamp to pull it back into place - remember is is a press-friction fit only. Otherwise you will find some play in the steering wheel/shaft after putting it all back together and about 5 000 miles later. Don't ask me how I know that now ;^) This problem is coming up reasonably often now - I need to scan in some of the pix that I took and set up a web page..... -Peter To: 200q20v <200q20v@audifans.com> Cc: Dan Simoes , maximum@weetamoo.com, C1J1Miller@aol.com, copley one Subject: [200q20v] The Audi (Gods) are watching over Alex? (broken ignition switch) Picked up a second 200q20v Avant about a week ago...Titanium Grey/Platinum with about 168Kmiles... The previous owner gave me two different keys - "I had to replace the ignition (key) switch"... I thought Hmm, our Indigo Wagon has 162K miles on it... Picked my wife and newborn son Alex up from the hospital in the Indigo wagon, and stopped for a sandwich on the way home. Go to start the wagon - I turn the key to the right, feel and hear a "pop" lights come on, but no start. Take the key out and the lights are still on. #$!#@%#!#@!!!!! My wife doesn't know whether to cry or rip my head off (Ain't postpartem depression great ;^) I'm able to get in touch with her parents to pick her and Alex up, and I call AAA for a flat bed. Miracle of miracles, I get home with the car on the flat bed 5 minutes after she does...and the driver helps me push the car into my garage. I tip him accordingly. I then call Mssrs Paul Royal and Chris Miller to appraise them of the situation. Chris orders a new ignition switch for me from Mac at Clair Parts Connection. I spend the rest of the day getting intimate with the interior of the indigo wagon-with Mr Bentley close at hand. Steering wheel removal went easier than I thought. Pulled out instrument cluster thinking that I could get to the switch from the top. No go. Pull out the knee pad, and proceed to remove the column and support, only to realize that the support doesn't need to be removed - I then retighten it. Removed the multifunction switch cluster. Removed the two 13mm nuts hold the crushable column section. Put a block of wood on the column front and gently tapped it with a hammer - the column slid backwards towards the firewall. I rotate the column and try to remove the switch assy. Discover that it's held in place with a security torx bolt. I have hex wrenches. I have torx wrenches and sockets. But not security torx. @#@$#^%^%%^!!!! Off to Sears hardware where I luckily find the right bits. Back to the car - removed the security bolt and pull the switch assembly- and take it apart. Find that not only the switch, but the end of the lock cylinder is broken. Back on the phone to Mac - luckily they had one lock cylinder remaining in stock. Next day, drive to Clair, pick up parts - and decide that I don't want to deal with having two different keys for the car - SO I have to go to a locksmith. $40 later it's rekeyed to match the rest of the car. Stopped to touch up the solder joints on the instrument cluster, and dabbed Stabilant 22 on the connectors. Reassembly so to speak was the reverse of removal....I took pix and I will give them to Chris to add to his website. Hope things get better, or maybe its just sibling rivalry between 20v wagons? -Peter ps> later Kim says " had some trouble with the key and steering lock on last Friday, but I forgot to tell you..." Peter Schulz 1990 CQ 1991 200 20v TQW indigo mica 1991 200 20v TQW titanium grey Chelmsford, MA USA peschulz@cisco.com _______________________________________________ 200q20v mailing list 200q20v@audifans.com http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From Chrisellenhem at aol.com Wed May 1 10:09:48 2002 From: Chrisellenhem at aol.com (Chrisellenhem@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:57 2003 Subject: 200Q 20V FS in CT Message-ID: Hello All, Spotted this one offered on AutoTrader.com - No affiliation, but I'm not TOO far away should anyone interested need an initial evaluation... 1991 Audi 200 Quattro Sedan AWD, 84968 mi., VIN: WAUGE5442MN003062, $8799, Crowley VW Used Car Auto Mart, Plainville, CT 06062, Stock No. E2560A , Phone 860-410-2000 From cjk4 at po.cwru.edu Wed May 1 14:23:37 2002 From: cjk4 at po.cwru.edu (Christopher J. Korff) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:57 2003 Subject: 200Q 20V FS in CT References: <20020501161248.2CB0F504@www.audifans.com> Message-ID: <006101c1f13d$5049d6c0$d4411681@rennerkenner.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] That one has been there for ~ 1 month. The dealer seems to be one of those (many) who advertises on the internet but refuses to communicate electronically. I emailed him and got no response. ----- Original Message ----- From: 200q20v-request@audifans.com To: 200q20v@audifans.com Message: 1 From: Chrisellenhem@aol.com Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 09:09:48 EDT Subject: 200Q 20V FS in CT To: 200q20v@audifans.com Hello All, Spotted this one offered on AutoTrader.com - No affiliation, but I'm not TOO far away should anyone interested need an initial evaluation... 1991 Audi 200 Quattro Sedan AWD, 84968 mi., VIN: WAUGE5442MN003062, $8799, Crowley VW Used Car Auto Mart, Plainville, CT 06062, Stock No. E2560A , Phone 860-410-2000 _______________________________________________ 200q20v mailing list 200q20v@audifans.com http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v End of 200q20v Digest -- From morpheus0213 at yahoo.com Wed May 1 12:14:56 2002 From: morpheus0213 at yahoo.com (Dave) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:57 2003 Subject: 200Q 20V FS in CT In-Reply-To: <006101c1f13d$5049d6c0$d4411681@rennerkenner.com> Message-ID: <20020501181456.68107.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com> I've seen this car.. e-mail me if you want more info.. -Dave --- "Christopher J. Korff" wrote: > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > That one has been there for ~ 1 month. > > The dealer seems to be one of those (many) who > advertises on the internet but refuses to > communicate electronically. > > I emailed him and got no response. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: 200q20v-request@audifans.com > To: 200q20v@audifans.com > > Message: 1 > From: Chrisellenhem@aol.com > Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 09:09:48 EDT > Subject: 200Q 20V FS in CT > To: 200q20v@audifans.com > > Hello All, > > Spotted this one offered on AutoTrader.com - No > affiliation, but I'm not TOO > far away should anyone interested need an initial > evaluation... > > 1991 Audi 200 Quattro Sedan AWD, 84968 mi., VIN: > WAUGE5442MN003062, $8799, > Crowley VW Used Car Auto Mart, Plainville, CT > 06062, Stock No. E2560A , > Phone 860-410-2000 > > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v > > End of 200q20v Digest > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com From paul at clarity.net Wed May 1 15:21:25 2002 From: paul at clarity.net (Paul R. Luevano) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:57 2003 Subject: Brake Pads Message-ID: <3CD03225.F367437@clarity.net> OK, it's time for new brake pads for the 200. Just looking for opinions and sources for new pads for a '91 200 20v with the G60 conversion. Strictly a street car, may see the track once in a blue moon if I get my act together. :) Thanks! -- ____________________________________________________________________ Paul Luevano | AMA * MSF |'99 CBR 600F4 (Racebike) http://teamdaemon.com | USM * CCS #898|'97 CBR 1100XX (Streetbike) Waltham, MA USA | NMA #116657 |'91 200TQ20V (Winter) _____"The purpose of man is to live, not to exist."-Jack London_____ From t44tq at mindspring.com Wed May 1 15:36:37 2002 From: t44tq at mindspring.com (TM) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:57 2003 Subject: Brake Pads In-Reply-To: <3CD03225.F367437@clarity.net> Message-ID: <000601c1f13f$20f6e690$0d42fea9@newpc> Paul- Mintex Red Box for street use- low dust, don't squeal, not too expensive. Had them w/ my G60 equipped 5ktq and I liked them. Totally inappropriate for track use, though. I'm running Hawk HPS on BIRA Sys2UFO and I'm not too happy- they squeal occasionally on light braking and they dust a lot. I think I'll go to Mintex Red Box for street use and swap them out for Kerr Friction track compound for track use. Taka From allens at mitronics.com Wed May 1 18:05:22 2002 From: allens at mitronics.com (Allen Swett) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Insurance Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020501170522.0070b8b4@mitronics.com> Pete says- "We looked at the Avant, it's just not big enough for one kid to have a friend come along." Ahh Pete, this is exactly the reason why you need more than 1 Avant. "Honey why don't you go ahead early with the kids, I'll meet you there on Friday night, maybe you can even stay a couple more days into the next week." Trnaslation- A couple extra days for Daddy and more room in his Avant for golf clubs, skis, and cooler. Might want to give it a shot! Right Mr. Schultz? Regards, Allen his and hers Avants..... and 1 spare From jbeer at BooseCasey.com Wed May 1 17:39:02 2002 From: jbeer at BooseCasey.com (Beer, Jerald) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: used driveshaft(x-posted) Message-ID: I have recently replaced my drive shaft with a used one (thanks Paul F.). The old one was worn at the front CV joint only. I am told it is rebuildable by a shop that rebuilds CV joints. It is available on a first come, first served basis for a negotiable contribution to the listmeister and shipping and handling. Let me know off list to reduce WOB. Regards, Jerry 91 200qa From peschulz at cisco.com Wed May 1 18:07:11 2002 From: peschulz at cisco.com (Peter Schulz) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Insurance In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020501170522.0070b8b4@mitronics.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020501165830.03730f08@millcity.cisco.com> hmmm... recently been tempted by a third one myself ;^) An Avant with a "photon" torpedo on the racks can carry more than you would think... and if I can fit an adult in the rear seat along with an infant seat AND a booster seat, I need to wonder about the size of your kid's friends...Pete If I can fit two kids under 3 , my wife and all of their paraphernalia into one of my avants... Put it this way - until recently, Ian Duff (S6 Avant) would take his wife and three kids on week long ski trips.... If you want to take the family biking - put the bikes on one of those trailer hitch racks and a carrier on the roof... And you'll have a car that will still handle and drive better than a minivan. --Peter Peter Schulz 1990 CQ 1991 200 20v TQW indigo mica 1991 200 20v TQW titanium grey Chelmsford, MA USA peschulz@cisco.com At 05:05 PM 5/1/2002 -0400, you wrote: >Pete says- > >"We looked at the Avant, it's just not big enough for one kid to have a friend >come along." > >Ahh Pete, this is exactly the reason why you need more than 1 Avant. > >"Honey why don't you go ahead early with the kids, I'll meet you there on >Friday night, maybe you can even stay a couple more days into the next week." > >Trnaslation- A couple extra days for Daddy and more room in his Avant for >golf clubs, skis, and cooler. > >Might want to give it a shot! > >Right Mr. Schultz? > >Regards, >Allen > >his and hers Avants..... >and 1 spare > >_______________________________________________ >200q20v mailing list >200q20v@audifans.com >http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v Peter C. Schulz peschulz@cisco.com Quality Systems Engineer/SSE http://www.cisco.com Customer Contact Business Unit (CCBU) Direct: 978.497.7772 Cisco Systems, Inc. Fax: 978.497.1705 900 Chelmsford Street Pager: 800.365.4578 Lowell, MA 01851 USA From msvphoto at pacbell.net Wed May 1 15:35:48 2002 From: msvphoto at pacbell.net (Motor Sport Visions Photography) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: insurance Message-ID: <3CD05FB4.8F2D22C9@pacbell.net> In a message dated 4/30/2002 Pete writes: << > yeah, but my Volvo can beat your MINIVAN. puke. Let's go on a nice long trip with 3 kids, hockey gear for 2, 4 bikes on the rack, refrigerated cooler plugged in, a bag of VHS movies and see who's happier at the other end. Set, Game, Match!!! >> I have three kids. Our family takes long road trips at least twice a year. To date all our road trips have been in a 4kq (kids were small, that was nearly 5 years back now) and a 5ktq. We recently bought a Volvo 850 turbo wagon (HUGE mistake BTW) that is presently our family road tripper. I know of one occasion for sure in the 5ktq that had I been driving a less, er, roadworthy vehicle (such as a van or SUV) I may not be typing this right now, and/or not have as large of a family as I once had. Land yachts have their place, I guess, but driving pleasure and safety are not at the top of the design criteria. On topic: 3 cars insured ('94 850t wagon, '87 5ktq, '86 4kq) 2 drivers (44 year old male, 32 year old female, no kids driving yet--good driver discounts) non-inner city rate (Santa Cruz, CA) 100/300k limits of liability (std. high limits in CA.) 100 comp/500 collision on the Volvo 850t wagon and 5ktq, liability only on the 4kq rental car coverage (pays for a rental) medical coverage (minimal) uninsured motorist $120.00 a month through Travelers. Mike Veglia Motor Sport Visions Photography http://www.motorsportvisions.com From t44tq at mindspring.com Wed May 1 18:55:22 2002 From: t44tq at mindspring.com (TM) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: insurance In-Reply-To: <3CD05FB4.8F2D22C9@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <001601c1f15a$e5424240$0d42fea9@newpc> One thing that I really notice when I get out of my 200 and into another car- the brakes are terrible. The UFOs were quite good, BIRA S2UFO is far better than the UFOs, even. With good pedal feel (relatively speaking) and excellent braking capacity, it's rather scary to hop into a rental car and find that the brakes don't work very well. If I take a long road trip in a rental, I might go so far as to use a vacuum fluid extractor and bleed the brakes w/ decent brake fluid before leaving, as well as checking the tire pressures and the pads. That's why if I owned something like a Suburban, I'd have some big Brembo brakes put on that thing, as well as street-oriented tires (not humungous 24" silly wheels, but something reasonable in an OEM size). Taka From linust at mindspring.com Wed May 1 16:23:21 2002 From: linust at mindspring.com (Linus Toy) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: insurance In-Reply-To: <3CD05FB4.8F2D22C9@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20020501152104.00aa8ba0@127.0.0.1> >In a message dated 4/30/2002 Pete writes: > ><< > yeah, but my Volvo can beat your MINIVAN. puke. >Let's go on a nice long trip with 3 kids, hockey gear for 2, 4 bikes on >the rack, refrigerated cooler plugged in, a bag of VHS movies and see who's >happier at the other end. Set, Game, Match!!! >> you know, the more i think about this one, the more i am reminded about the Porsche Boxster ad a few years ago...the one captioned "the more kids you have, the more practical it becomes" Pete--you're looking for the wrong car! -L *--------------------------------------------------------------------* * Linus Toy Insanity is doing the same thing * * Mercer Island, WA you've always done and expecting * * linust@mindspring.com different results * * - Roger Milliken * *--------------------------------------------------------------------* From pck at gte.net Wed May 1 17:04:57 2002 From: pck at gte.net (pck@gte.net) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: insurance References: <4.2.0.58.20020501152104.00aa8ba0@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <004f01c1f164$9f5bc620$9f36fea9@preferreduser> My god! I started the thread that just won't die! So Sorry. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linus Toy" To: <200q20v@audifans.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 3:23 PM Subject: Re: insurance > > >In a message dated 4/30/2002 Pete writes: > > > ><< > yeah, but my Volvo can beat your MINIVAN. puke. > >Let's go on a nice long trip with 3 kids, hockey gear for 2, 4 bikes on > >the rack, refrigerated cooler plugged in, a bag of VHS movies and see who's > >happier at the other end. Set, Game, Match!!! >> > > you know, the more i think about this one, the more i am reminded about the > Porsche Boxster ad a few years ago...the one captioned "the more kids you > have, the more practical it becomes" Pete--you're looking for the wrong car! > > -L > *--------------------------------------------------------------------* > * Linus Toy Insanity is doing the same thing * > * Mercer Island, WA you've always done and expecting * > * linust@mindspring.com different results * > * - Roger Milliken * > *--------------------------------------------------------------------* > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v > From b.m.benz at prodigy.net Wed May 1 17:23:07 2002 From: b.m.benz at prodigy.net (Bernie Benz) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: G60 Brake Pads In-Reply-To: <3CD03225.F367437@clarity.net> Message-ID: Here's the info that I have on G60 pads: The generic, industry std. FMSI PN is MKD419. Any pad having this # will fit. Audi has 3 PNs for this pad, all physically identical/interchangeable, ex f/ the wear sensor connector on E differs to fit UFO. Prices are as of about a year ago. You don't want to know the Audi list prices. All Audi pads are Jurid. 441 698 151E f/ S4,6,8,200-20V Mintex $56. 447 698 151F f/ 5KTQ, 200Q-10V Axxis Delux $65.28 Axxis Mtl Mstr 74.07 Jurid 106.67 Mintex 32.87 PBR Delux 37.85 895 698 151 f/ CQ, 90Q-20V Jurid 102.84 Mintex 29.52 PBR Delux 26.40 PBR Mtl Mstr 32.00 I have too many spare pad sets on hand now and am only using them on the 90Q-20V. So, I will sell a new, in the red box, Mintex set. Make offers. Bernie > From: "Paul R. Luevano" > Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 14:21:25 -0400 > To: 200TQ20V List <200q20v@audifans.com> > Subject: Brake Pads > > OK, it's time for new brake pads for the 200. Just looking for opinions and > sources for new pads for a '91 200 20v with the G60 conversion. Strictly a > street car, may see the track once in a blue moon if I get my act together. > :) > > Thanks! From pjrose at frontiernet.net Wed May 1 21:30:29 2002 From: pjrose at frontiernet.net (Phil Rose) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Was insurance..now big wheel talk In-Reply-To: <20020501103403.11714.qmail@web13604.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020501103403.11714.qmail@web13604.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: At 3:34 AM -0700 5/1/02, Fundsalo Racing wrote: >Anyone know where the framistan is located in our >automobiles? Framistan, home to the warlike Framistani tribesmen, is located near Synlubistan. It is inaccessible by by automobile. Phil -- Phil Rose Rochester, NY mailto:pjrose@frontiernet.net From brett at cloud9.net Wed May 1 22:41:58 2002 From: brett at cloud9.net (Brett Dikeman) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: alright guys... Message-ID: ...let's retire the whole insurance thread :-) On a listmaster-business note, I have a good chunk of the messages from the 200q20v list since we moved to Audifans, in the new archive database system(which is pretty incomplete), but for fun I did a query to see who the top posters were. It's probably THE most hideously "expensive" query to run on the DB: select u.email, count(*) FROM messages m, users u WHERE from_id=u_id GROUP BY u.email HAVING count(*) > 50 ORDER BY count DESC; It's got a massive join, an aggregate function, a limit, AND a sort. Yeesh. Takes something like a good 3-6 seconds on the PII-300 test box...doesn't sound too bad, until you realize that the DB only has 8000 messages in it/500 users, and will, when fully loaded, have closer to a half million messages/10,000 users. Anyway, it spits out, after much deep thought: . email | count --------------------------------+------- C1J1Miller@aol.com | 540 pjrose@frontiernet.net | 469 b.m.benz@prodigy.net | 433 knotnook@traverse.com | 337 t44tq@mindspring.com | 248 malth@umich.edu | 236 brett@cloud9.net | 183 fundsaloracing@yahoo.com | 171 gpowell@ennovatenetworks.com | 144 dbpulvino@hotmail.com | 110 peschulz@cisco.com | 105 wolff@turboquattro.com | 104 MikeMilr@blackfoot.net | 100 Chewy4000@aol.com | 88 brett@brettd.dsl.speakeasy.net | 87 pwaterloo@compuserve.com | 81 QSHIPQ@aol.com | 80 WARATAP@aol.com | 79 ingo@waratap.com | 75 sidman@montereynet.net | 71 montesawong@yahoo.com | 70 Mike.Sylvester@sycamorenet.com | 63 prl@ptc.com | 63 Thomas.Forhan@mail.house.gov | 60 Brian.Link@Level3.com | 59 MartinGG@aetna.com | 58 mikemilr@blackfoot.net | 54 calvinlc@earthlink.net | 53 charlie@istari.com | 52 DPulvino@agraus.com | 51 hah@srv.net | 51 (31 rows) Brett -- ---- "They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin http://www.users.cloud9.net/~brett/ From malth at umich.edu Wed May 1 22:53:28 2002 From: malth at umich.edu (Chris Covington) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: alright guys... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There's no way my blatherings amounted to 236 posts! More than the listmeister himself? That just goes to show that posting alot does mean knowing alot. ;) Brett you need to check that query. I started looking on the bottom and even thought I might not have made it on the list, guess I was wrong! Chris '91 200q20v From irautenberg at comcast.net Wed May 1 23:12:35 2002 From: irautenberg at comcast.net (Ingo Rautenberg) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: alright guys... References: Message-ID: <009801c1f17e$d47d4f80$42d22844@home> Brett, I'm almost embarrassed to say that while technically correct, some of us have either posted from more than one account or changed e-mail accounts since the change to the Audifans server, so I guess I'm at ~155 with this one, but I know I'm not alone --right, Messrs. Pulvino and Dikeman? ;-) Ingo From malth at umich.edu Wed May 1 23:21:36 2002 From: malth at umich.edu (Chris Covington) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: alright guys... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Er, that should say posting alot does NOT mean knowing alot. :) Very key. On Wed, 1 May 2002, Chris Covington wrote: > There's no way my blatherings amounted to 236 posts! More than the > listmeister himself? That just goes to show that posting alot does mean > knowing alot. ;) > Brett you need to check that query. I started looking on the bottom > and even thought I might not have made it on the list, guess I was wrong! > > Chris > '91 200q20v > > > From project20vt at yahoo.com Wed May 1 20:34:25 2002 From: project20vt at yahoo.com (Justin Olson) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: My rear brakes won't stop squeeling!!! Message-ID: <20020502023425.21585.qmail@web10408.mail.yahoo.com> My back brakes seem to drag all the time. I don't think It's the e-brake, because the squeel goes away when I apply the brakes lightly. What should I check to solve my problem. It's seems like the pads are returning all the way into the caliper. Justin Olson __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com From pjrose at frontiernet.net Thu May 2 01:07:50 2002 From: pjrose at frontiernet.net (Phil Rose) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: My rear brakes won't stop squeeling!!! In-Reply-To: <20020502023425.21585.qmail@web10408.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020502023425.21585.qmail@web10408.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >My back brakes seem to drag all the time. I don't >think It's the e-brake, because the squeel goes away >when I apply the brakes lightly. What should I check >to solve my problem. It's seems like the pads are >returning all the way into the caliper. Have you jacked up the rear wheel(s) and verified that there is actually some significant "dragging"? The e-brake is commonly the cause of rear brake dragging, and it's easy to tell if they're not being fully disengaged. Check for this by inspecting the e-brake actuating lever located at the rear of each caliper assembly. There is a coil spring that should cause the lever to return tightly against a "stop" when the e-brake handle is fully released. If cables are binding or caliper innards are gunked-up, this will restrain the levers from returning to the released position. Even as little as 1/8" away from the stop is enough to drag the brakes. They can be released (temporarily) by prying with a large screwdriver or tapping with a small hammer to force the lever(s) to rotate fully against the stop(s). Also, If the rubber boots over the caliper guide-pins are torn or missing, the guide pins may be dirty/corroded and interfere with caliper movement, causing the pads to remain in contact. Phil -- Phil Rose Rochester, NY USA '91 200q (130 Kmiles, Lago blue) '91 200q (57 Kmiles, Tornado red) mailto:pjrose@frontiernet.net From fundsaloracing at yahoo.com Thu May 2 04:32:09 2002 From: fundsaloracing at yahoo.com (Fundsalo Racing) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Was insurance..now big wheel talk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020502103209.49120.qmail@web13601.mail.yahoo.com> Really? Is the sole mtn pass used to gain access too slippery? -glen OOOO --- Phil Rose wrote: > At 3:34 AM -0700 5/1/02, Fundsalo Racing wrote: > >Anyone know where the framistan is located in our > >automobiles? > > Framistan, home to the warlike Framistani tribesmen, > is located near > Synlubistan. It is inaccessible by by automobile. > > Phil > -- > > Phil Rose > Rochester, NY > mailto:pjrose@frontiernet.net > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v ===== -glen "Upon common theaters, indeed, the applause of the audience is of more importance to the actors than their own approbation. But upon the stage of life, while conscience claps, let the world hiss! On the contrary if conscience dissapproves, the loudest applause of the world are of little value." John Adams OOOO __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com From fundsaloracing at yahoo.com Thu May 2 04:40:35 2002 From: fundsaloracing at yahoo.com (Fundsalo Racing) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: insurance - now brakes In-Reply-To: <001601c1f15a$e5424240$0d42fea9@newpc> Message-ID: <20020502104035.69307.qmail@web13606.mail.yahoo.com> Anyone drive the 2000 S4 Bi-Turbo yet? Those brakes are awesome! I keep braking waaaay too soon in normal street driving, this after getting out of the 200q20v mit excellent UFOs. Anyone done an engine R&R in one of these puppies yet? Ut was a real challenge!m We also added APR Stage II kit, APR chip, bi-pipes, SS exh, Samco hose kit 0 this car screams and is amazingly smooth, and the brakes are good too. -glen OOOO --- TM wrote: > One thing that I really notice when I get out of my > 200 and into another > car- the brakes are terrible. The UFOs were quite > good, BIRA S2UFO is > far > better than the UFOs, even. With good pedal feel > (relatively speaking) > and > excellent braking capacity, it's rather scary to hop > into a rental car > and > find that the brakes don't work very well. > > If I take a long road trip in a rental, I might go > so far as to use a > vacuum > fluid extractor and bleed the brakes w/ decent brake > fluid before > leaving, > as well as checking the tire pressures and the pads. > > That's why if I owned something like a Suburban, I'd > have some big > Brembo > brakes put on that thing, as well as street-oriented > tires (not > humungous > 24" silly wheels, but something reasonable in an OEM > size). > > Taka > > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v ===== -glen "Upon common theaters, indeed, the applause of the audience is of more importance to the actors than their own approbation. But upon the stage of life, while conscience claps, let the world hiss! On the contrary if conscience dissapproves, the loudest applause of the world are of little value." John Adams OOOO __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com From Alan.Cordeiro at mts.com Thu May 2 08:19:28 2002 From: Alan.Cordeiro at mts.com (Cordeiro, Alan) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Challenge to "infrequent" posters??? Message-ID: Both Glen and Ingo are there twice... Now is this supposed to be a hint to the higher count posters, or a challenge to us "infrequent" posters ************************************************** Anyway, it spits out, after much deep thought: . email | count --------------------------------+------- C1J1Miller@aol.com | 540 pjrose@frontiernet.net | 469 b.m.benz@prodigy.net | 433 knotnook@traverse.com | 337 t44tq@mindspring.com | 248 malth@umich.edu | 236 brett@cloud9.net | 183 fundsaloracing@yahoo.com | 171 gpowell@ennovatenetworks.com | 144 Glen.... 254 total dbpulvino@hotmail.com | 110 peschulz@cisco.com | 105 wolff@turboquattro.com | 104 MikeMilr@blackfoot.net | 100 Chewy4000@aol.com | 88 brett@brettd.dsl.speakeasy.net | 87 pwaterloo@compuserve.com | 81 QSHIPQ@aol.com | 80 WARATAP@aol.com | 79 Ingo 154 total ingo@waratap.com | 75 From t44tq at mindspring.com Thu May 2 10:24:43 2002 From: t44tq at mindspring.com (TM) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: insurance - now brakes In-Reply-To: <20020502104035.69307.qmail@web13606.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000701c1f1dc$b989cec0$0d42fea9@newpc> Glen- Did you replace the turbos? S4tts make big power once you put at least K04s on the engine. Taka From maximum at weetamoo.com Thu May 2 07:35:02 2002 From: maximum at weetamoo.com (maximum@weetamoo.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Bentleys On Ebay Message-ID: <20020502063503.11981.h002.c001.wm@mail.weetamoo.com.criticalpath.net> Item #: 1826006695 Title: Audi 100, 200 1989-91 Official Repair Manual Price: $45.00 Bids: 0 Starts: May-01-02 11:20:24 PDT URL: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1826006695&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1 From maximum at weetamoo.com Thu May 2 09:53:29 2002 From: maximum at weetamoo.com (maximum@weetamoo.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: A8/91 TQW Rim Question Message-ID: <20020502085329.14703.h009.c001.wm@mail.weetamoo.com.criticalpath.net> By chance, does anyone know precisely what would be required in the way of spacers or if a hub-centric ring would be necessary to mount the "original" 5 spoke A8 (like from a 1998) 16inch rims on a 1991 20vTQW with the orignal UFOs? "IF" possible and you think you know, would this push the tire out far enough so that it would "spray" the side of the car with debris (more than usual)? Thanks much for any advice on this. Royal aka 20RoT From wolff at turboquattro.com Thu May 2 10:05:37 2002 From: wolff at turboquattro.com (wolff@turboquattro.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Challenge to "infrequent" posters??? References: Message-ID: <004101c1f1f3$333d0af0$6401a8c0@lexx> I'm happy to hang out in the middle range. Wolff "Nobody can forget the sound." - Michele Mouton From Djdawson2 at aol.com Thu May 2 13:21:50 2002 From: Djdawson2 at aol.com (Djdawson2@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: My rear brakes won't stop squeeling!!! Message-ID: <154.d549008.2a02c19e@aol.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I agree with all the e brake checks... but if that doesn't help with the dragging, you will have to check the caliper travel to insure that they move freely. When I lived in the midwest it was common to find frozen or tight caliper pistons. If the caliper has trouble returning, there are only a few possibilities... caliper guides are tight/shot (like Phil indicated), piston(s) are seized or tight, or there is a hydraulic restriction (pinched brake line). Finally... squeaky brakes can result from a particular driving style. Brake pads can become "glazed" from either extremely light use, or very hard use. Both result in squealing. Easiest solution... replace the pads. HTH, Dave From C1J1Miller at aol.com Thu May 2 13:30:38 2002 From: C1J1Miller at aol.com (C1J1Miller@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Subject: Challenge to "infrequent" posters??? Message-ID: <431FDAF9.6C9F5BEF.0959A538@aol.com> I've been posting very little for the last year or so; put a bunch of effort into my site; had a second child; got a new job with longer commute; moved to digest mode... Chris From: "Cordeiro, Alan" Both Glen and Ingo are there twice... Now is this supposed to be a hint to the higher count posters, or a challenge to us "infrequent" posters ************************************************** Anyway, it spits out, after much deep thought: . email | count --------------------------------+------- C1J1Miller@aol.com | 540 pjrose@frontiernet.net | 469 From smuckycat at hotmail.com Thu May 2 14:35:15 2002 From: smuckycat at hotmail.com (Joshua C) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: CV boots and Waste gate FV Message-ID: Last night when I was tightening up my belts I decided to check on the suspension, besides the worn bushings I need to replace I noticed one of the CV boots is rotten looking, it has not yet ripped. Is it real difficult to replace the boot (I know it involves removing the axle etc..) I spoke to a friend and he said I would be better off replacing the whole axle assembly???? Also, I am only making 1.4 boost (7 psi) and I suspect the Wastegate frequency valve is shot...where can I get one, Blau told me to call back in a few months for the 20v TQ.. Thanks-Josh 91 200 20v Avant 73 Alfa Romeo GTV _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. From b.m.benz at prodigy.net Thu May 2 12:13:59 2002 From: b.m.benz at prodigy.net (Bernie Benz) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: CV boots and Waste gate FV In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > From: "Joshua C" > > Last night when I was tightening up my belts I decided to check on the > suspension, besides the worn bushings I need to replace I noticed one of the > CV boots is rotten looking, it has not yet ripped. Is it real difficult to > replace the boot (I know it involves removing the axle etc..) I spoke to a > friend and he said I would be better off replacing the whole axle > assembly???? BTDT. Yes it is a fair job, unless you are removing the strut for other reasons. These boots seem to be good for 150 to 250K and more. If it ain't broke, don't fix it! Just keep an eye on it. No need to replace the shaft or CV even if driven cracked for some time, Just R&R clean and regrease with new boot kit. > From thequattroking at yahoo.com Thu May 2 12:33:57 2002 From: thequattroking at yahoo.com (Shayne) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: CV boots and Waste gate FV In-Reply-To: Message-ID: But, don't use gas to clean the CV. I learned that the hard way. 10K later, I had to replace the boots because the gas residue destroyed the rubber boots. Shayne P. Currently, Spokane, WA. June, Oakland, CA. Enough Audis to give plenty of headaches. Parting: 1972 Mercedes Benz 280 SE 4.5 >> >> Last night when I was tightening up my belts I decided to check on the >> suspension, besides the worn bushings I need to replace I noticed one of the >> CV boots is rotten looking, it has not yet ripped. Is it real difficult to >> replace the boot (I know it involves removing the axle etc..) I spoke to a >> friend and he said I would be better off replacing the whole axle >> assembly???? > BTDT. Yes it is a fair job, unless you are removing the strut for other > reasons. These boots seem to be good for 150 to 250K and more. If it ain't > broke, don't fix it! Just keep an eye on it. No need to replace the shaft > or CV even if driven cracked for some time, Just R&R clean and regrease with > new boot kit. From dans at audifans.com Thu May 2 15:58:42 2002 From: dans at audifans.com (Dan Simoes) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: cheap rims for sale Message-ID: <3CD18C62.B390AD82@audifans.com> vwparts.com has 2 sets of cheap rims for sale that may fit the 200q20v cars: 15" Audi alloys, like on the A4. Only $69 each, includes caps. 16" (I think) VW Tango alloys, set of 4 is $356. Would either work on these cars with UFOs? Yes, I'm already looking to upgrade even though I don't have the car yet. "My" BBS wheels are very crapped up,though Peter says they are very light so they may be worth keeping. It looks like there are no decent tires in 15" though, at least of a sporting nature. Choices in 215/60-15 are: HTR200 $45ea (H rated) Yoko AVS Intermediate (V) $61, low stock Dunlop SP Sport A2 $61 (H) Nothing I'd really rave about. How about the knockoff 5 spoke rims like on the A8, or the "S5" replica wheels they sell? Would either fit over UFOs in 16"? TireRack only shows 2 wheels for the 200 in 16", but 27 wheels for the 95 S6. I'm not sure if this is ignorance or maybe they really know what will fit over UFOs. Odds are I will go to 16" since there are so many Audi takeoff wheels out there, courtesy of the A4 crowd. From dbpulvino at hotmail.com Thu May 2 13:15:44 2002 From: dbpulvino at hotmail.com (Derek Pulvino) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: alright guys Message-ID: Ingo, Yep, surprised to see myself on there, but I did once exist in these realms as dpulvino@agraus.com. But who's counting anyways... At any rate, thanks for all the info to eveybody out there. dp Message: 16 Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 22:12:35 -0400 From: Ingo Rautenberg Subject: Re: alright guys... To: 200q20V mailing list <200q20v@audifans.com> Reply-To: Ingo Rautenberg Brett, I'm almost embarrassed to say that while technically correct, some of us have either posted from more than one account or changed e-mail accounts since the change to the Audifans server, so I guess I'm at ~155 with this one, but I know I'm not alone --right, Messrs. Pulvino and Dikeman? ;-) Ingo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. From b.m.benz at prodigy.net Thu May 2 13:29:29 2002 From: b.m.benz at prodigy.net (Bernie Benz) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: CV boots and Waste gate FV In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If not careful, one can learn somethng new every day. Bernie > From: Shayne > Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 11:33:57 -0700 > To: Bernie Benz , Joshua C > Cc: 200q20V mailing list <200q20v@audifans.com> > Subject: Re: CV boots and Waste gate FV > > But, don't use gas to clean the CV. I learned that the hard way. 10K > later, I had to replace the boots because the gas residue destroyed the > rubber boots. > > > > Shayne P. > > > Currently, Spokane, WA. June, Oakland, CA. > > Enough Audis to give plenty of headaches. > > Parting: 1972 Mercedes Benz 280 SE 4.5 > > >>> >>> Last night when I was tightening up my belts I decided to check on the >>> suspension, besides the worn bushings I need to replace I noticed one of the >>> CV boots is rotten looking, it has not yet ripped. Is it real difficult to >>> replace the boot (I know it involves removing the axle etc..) I spoke to a >>> friend and he said I would be better off replacing the whole axle >>> assembly???? >> BTDT. Yes it is a fair job, unless you are removing the strut for other >> reasons. These boots seem to be good for 150 to 250K and more. If it ain't >> broke, don't fix it! Just keep an eye on it. No need to replace the shaft >> or CV even if driven cracked for some time, Just R&R clean and regrease with >> new boot kit. > > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From dbpulvino at hotmail.com Thu May 2 13:32:07 2002 From: dbpulvino at hotmail.com (Derek Pulvino) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Replacement UFO Pads Message-ID: Hey all, Back on this one... As there is no Autozones up here in the Pac. NW, stopped by our local giant, Shucks. They have Raybestos pads orderable for the 200 at $63 a pop, supplied with a lifetime warranty (old pads wear out, bring them in and you get new pads). My inclination is not to go with the brand, but that is not based on btdt. Anybody have more "empirical data" on the brand? For all I know they're the same pad as Autozones, or the Jurid's for that matter. Also, what's that I saw about Mintex pads related to the G60's? Any made for the UFO's? Derek P >From: Bernie Benz >To: Derek Pulvino >CC: 200q20V mailing list <200q20v@audifans.com> >Subject: Re: Replacement UFO Pads >Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 07:40:13 -0700 > >Opps! I transposed numbers on the Jurid p/n in the Textar description. >should have been Jurid 526FE, same as the Audi dealer part. Corrected >below. > >Bernie > > >Hi Derek, > >The best BFB (bang for the buck) is Auto Zone's #MKD467 @ about $45... _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From bimmer_dude at hotmail.com Thu May 2 20:37:36 2002 From: bimmer_dude at hotmail.com (Jobe Tichy) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Front Door Speaker Grill Message-ID: [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] Quick question--Are the grills for the Bose speakers in the front doors removable? Or does the door skin have to come off and work from behind? My driver's speaker does not appear to be working, so I need to trouble shoot = and I figured the first placed should be at the connection to the speaker and s= ee if it works. It appears they pop rights off--I just want to make sure befo= re I start prying off something that isn't supposed to:) Thanks JOBE TICHY '91 200tq 20v '84 BMW 318i (modified) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- Join the world=92s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. Click Here[1] =3D=3D=3DReferences:=3D=3D=3D 1. http://g.msn.com/1HM105401/47 From Djdawson2 at aol.com Thu May 2 16:43:29 2002 From: Djdawson2 at aol.com (Djdawson2@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Front Door Speaker Grill Message-ID: <1e.27846a29.2a02f0e1@aol.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] You will have to remove the door panel, and then remove the Bose speaker "box" to get to the wiring. HTH Dave From mmiller at lincoln.k12.mt.us Thu May 2 14:45:14 2002 From: mmiller at lincoln.k12.mt.us (Mike Miller) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: cheap rims for sale References: <3CD18C62.B390AD82@audifans.com> Message-ID: <004501c1f211$e924e680$0b01a8c0@Lincon.k12.mt.us> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Simoes" To: "200 20v" <200q20v@audifans.com> Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 12:58 PM Subject: cheap rims for sale > > It looks like there are no decent tires in 15" though, at least of a > sporting nature. Choices in 215/60-15 are: > HTR200 $45ea (H rated) > Yoko AVS Intermediate (V) $61, low stock > Dunlop SP Sport A2 $61 (H) > > Nothing I'd really rave about. You can run 225/60/15 on the 200q20v - I just slapped a set of BFG touring T/A's (VR4) on for about $80 ea installed and balanced. Too bad the BFG Comp T/A VR4 is NLA in that size. mike From brett at cloud9.net Thu May 2 16:54:42 2002 From: brett at cloud9.net (Brett Dikeman) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Front Door Speaker Grill In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 7:37 PM +0000 5/2/02, Jobe Tichy wrote: >Quick question--Are the grills for the Bose speakers in the front doors >removable? Or does the door skin have to come off and work from behind? My >driver's speaker does not appear to be working, so I need to trouble shoot and >I figured the first placed should be at the connection to the speaker and see >if it works. It appears they pop rights off--I just want to make sure before >I start prying off something that isn't supposed to:) Thanks The entire door panel must come off. It's not -that- hard. I have a full writeup here(including, I think, instructions on removal, but it's been a few months since I looked at it.) http://frank.mercea.net/cgi-bin/random_bose.cgi The PDF version is much nicer, but as the index page warns, save and open from desktop if you're on Windows...some versions of IE/Acrobat plugin don't "like" my doc. Brett -- ---- "They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin http://www.users.cloud9.net/~brett/ From b.m.benz at prodigy.net Thu May 2 13:57:08 2002 From: b.m.benz at prodigy.net (Bernie Benz) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: CV boots and Waste gate FV In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If it ain't broke, don't fix it, unless you are in there for some other good reason. Then service everything (I didn't say replace) as needed, strut top bearing, wheel bearing, rod end, brake caliper, ect. Bernie > From: "Joshua C" > Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 14:50:12 -0400 > To: b.m.benz@prodigy.net > Subject: Re: CV boots and Waste gate FV > > I am planning on putting new struts in early summer, would it be good to do > it then while it's apart....or wait for the boot to go? Just trying to > cover the bases. > From t44tq at mindspring.com Thu May 2 17:21:27 2002 From: t44tq at mindspring.com (TM) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Replacement UFO Pads In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001001c1f216$f1062a80$0d42fea9@newpc> Maybe Bernie can shed some more light on the subject, but I (most likely incorrectly) remember that the UFOs use the same pad as a big BMW, maybe E32 7 series? If this is truly the case, there is a good likelihood of Mintex making a pad.... Taka From b.m.benz at prodigy.net Thu May 2 14:32:31 2002 From: b.m.benz at prodigy.net (Bernie Benz) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Replacement UFO Pads In-Reply-To: <001001c1f216$f1062a80$0d42fea9@newpc> Message-ID: I've not found any cross reference of the FMSI #MKD467, the generic # for the UFO pad, to any other car, but it may be so. Bernie > From: "TM" > Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 16:21:27 -0400 > To: "'Derek Pulvino'" , > Cc: <200q20v@audifans.com> > Subject: RE: Replacement UFO Pads > > Maybe Bernie can shed some more light on the subject, but > I (most likely incorrectly) remember that the UFOs use the > same pad as a big BMW, maybe E32 7 series? > > If this is truly the case, there is a good likelihood of Mintex > making a pad.... > > Taka > From maximum at weetamoo.com Thu May 2 14:36:17 2002 From: maximum at weetamoo.com (maximum@weetamoo.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Replacement UFO Pads Message-ID: <20020502133618.15597.h003.c001.wm@mail.weetamoo.com.criticalpath.net> >>>Also, what's that I saw about Mintex pads related to the G60's? Any made >>>for the UFO's? I've got these on order from my old employer (Bavarian Autosport) but they're taking awhile. The Mintex book has the WRONG pads listed for the UFO's for the 91 TQ... the right ones are listed under the V8 but I don't have the part # handy. Will report on usage if I ever see them. Royal aka 20RoT From t44tq at mindspring.com Thu May 2 17:26:05 2002 From: t44tq at mindspring.com (TM) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: cheap rims for sale In-Reply-To: <004501c1f211$e924e680$0b01a8c0@Lincon.k12.mt.us> Message-ID: <001101c1f217$9674c850$0d42fea9@newpc> If 225/60 works, you can use the Firestone SZ50EP in that size- decent tire. If you go 225/55, you can use the Michelin Pilot HX MXM, good quiet tire, but not totally performance-oriented. If you go 225/50, there are lots of choices. What's wrong w/ the AVS intermediate, anyway? I like those tires, just don't last very long. Taka From b.m.benz at prodigy.net Thu May 2 14:47:51 2002 From: b.m.benz at prodigy.net (Bernie Benz) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Replacement UFO Pads In-Reply-To: <20020502133618.15597.h003.c001.wm@mail.weetamoo.com.criticalpath.net> Message-ID: When searching for UFO pads by vehicle, always reference Audi V8, not the 200-20V. > From: maximum@weetamoo.com > Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 13:36:17 -0700 (PDT) > To: dbpulvino@hotmail.com > Cc: b.m.benz@prodigy.net, 200q20v@audifans.com > Subject: Re: Replacement UFO Pads > >>>> Also, what's that I saw about Mintex pads related to the G60's? Any made >>>> for the UFO's? > > I've got these on order from my old employer (Bavarian Autosport) but they're > taking awhile. The Mintex book has the WRONG pads listed for the UFO's for > the > 91 TQ... the right ones are listed under the V8 but I don't have the part # > handy. Will report on usage if I ever see them. > > Royal aka 20RoT > > From maximum at weetamoo.com Thu May 2 14:50:17 2002 From: maximum at weetamoo.com (maximum@weetamoo.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Replacement UFO Pads Message-ID: <20020502135018.2761.h016.c001.wm@mail.weetamoo.com.criticalpath.net> I "think" this is unsubstantiated rumor. I spent several hours going through every manufacturers book I could find and everything we had in inventory at Bavarian Autosport's warehouse (ex-employee I am) looking for a match when Chris Miller was in a pinch awhile back. I couldn't find anything that was even mildly close. Shed some light if anyone can please. Royal aka 20RoT "TM" wrote > > Maybe Bernie can shed some more light on the subject, but > I (most likely incorrectly) remember that the UFOs use the > same pad as a big BMW, maybe E32 7 series? > > If this is truly the case, there is a good likelihood of Mintex > making a pad.... > > Taka > > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From dans at audifans.com Thu May 2 17:57:53 2002 From: dans at audifans.com (Dan Simoes) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: cheap rims for sale References: <001101c1f217$9674c850$0d42fea9@newpc> Message-ID: <3CD1A851.833DAF51@audifans.com> I've heard they are good, they are just in low availability. I would think that a heavy car like the 200 would benefit from a wider contact patch (at least 16") anyway. TM wrote: > > If 225/60 works, you can use the Firestone SZ50EP in that size- decent > tire. > > If you go 225/55, you can use the Michelin Pilot HX MXM, good quiet > tire, but > not totally performance-oriented. > > If you go 225/50, there are lots of choices. > > What's wrong w/ the AVS intermediate, anyway? I like those tires, just > don't > last very long. > > Taka From bimmer_dude at hotmail.com Thu May 2 22:00:23 2002 From: bimmer_dude at hotmail.com (Jobe Tichy) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Front Door Speaker Grill Message-ID: [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] Thanks all for the tips and write up for the door speakers and for the fore warning. Glad I didn't get in there with a flat head! Looks like I've got a new project. JOBE '91 200tq 20v '84 BMW 318i (modified) >From: Brett Dikeman >To: "Jobe Tichy" , 200q20v@audifans.com >Subject: Re: Front Door Speaker Grill >Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 15:54:42 -0400 > >At 7:37 PM +0000 5/2/02, Jobe Tichy wrote: > >>Quick question--Are the grills for the Bose speakers in the front >>doors >>removable? Or does the door skin have to come off and work from >>behind? My >>driver's speaker does not appear to be working, so I need to >>trouble shoot and >>I figured the first placed should be at the connection to the >>speaker and see >>if it works. It appears they pop rights off--I just want to make >>sure before >>I start prying off something that isn't supposed to:) Thanks > >The entire door panel must come off. It's not -that- hard. > >I have a full writeup here(including, I think, instructions on >removal, but it's been a few months since I looked at it.) > >http://frank.mercea.net/cgi-bin/random_bose.cgi > >The PDF version is much nicer, but as the index page warns, save and >open from desktop if you're on Windows...some versions of IE/Acrobat >plugin don't "like" my doc. > >Brett >-- >---- >"They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary >safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin >http://www.users.cloud9.net/~brett/ >_______________________________________________ >200q20v mailing list >200q20v@audifans.com >http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com[1]. ===References:=== 1. http://g.msn.com/1HM105401/44 From ingo at waratap.com Thu May 2 18:13:22 2002 From: ingo at waratap.com (Ingo D. Rautenberg) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: cheap rims for sale References: <001101c1f217$9674c850$0d42fea9@newpc> Message-ID: <006301c1f21e$31747160$9865fea9@ingo> I definitely don't recommend the Dunlop D60 A2's. Mine sound like a truck after what? 20~25k and will be tossed out next week (my well-worn Pirelli winter tires are quieter). I can't report on the Sumotomos yet, as I have opted to use the BBS 200q20v wheels on the Urq shod with the HTR200's 225/50x15. My past and present experiences with Sumotomos (HTRZII 235/45x17) have been great. -Ingo '91 200q20v...Slightly modified '83 Urquattro ('90 v8q RIP) http://hometown.aol.com/quattringo/index.html From Bleaf1 at peoplepc.com Thu May 2 19:25:58 2002 From: Bleaf1 at peoplepc.com (Vincenzo Basile) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: cat - converter Message-ID: <002201c1f228$57848200$bb26c143@oemcomputer> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I was wondering if anybody could help me out?I'm trying to figure out why m= y car has been smelling like the roten egg bad cat-converter smell ,it used= to happen only under hard excelleration but now seems to happen any time I= drive it.could this be a o2 sensor or running to rich ? and if it is the c= at ,will it eventually blow its self out ,Im not too concerned with emmisio= n because were I live they are gonna do away with it for a while -- From Bleaf1 at peoplepc.com Thu May 2 19:36:39 2002 From: Bleaf1 at peoplepc.com (Vincenzo Basile) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: lifters Message-ID: <003301c1f229$d525f4e0$bb26c143@oemcomputer> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Does anybody know how to distinguish ticking noise from engine in morning due to lifters ,manifold or dried out vacuum pump? -- From linust at mindspring.com Thu May 2 15:58:55 2002 From: linust at mindspring.com (Linus Toy) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Replacement UFO Pads In-Reply-To: <20020502135018.2761.h016.c001.wm@mail.weetamoo.com.critica lpath.net> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20020502143626.00aaacc8@127.0.0.1> At 01:50 PM 5/2/2002 -0700, maximum@weetamoo.com wrote: >I "think" this is unsubstantiated rumor. I spent several hours >going through every manufacturers book I could find and everything >we had in inventory at Bavarian Autosport's warehouse (ex-employee >I am) looking for a match when Chris Miller was in a pinch awhile >back. I couldn't find anything that was even mildly close. Shed >some light if anyone can please. > >Royal aka 20RoT I may have been the source of that mis-information from a long way back... turns out I was partially right...just not for UFO brakes. type 44 Audis with conventional Ate (single piston) calipers use an FMSI D394 pad...same pad as used on many (not all) BMW 5- and 7- series cars thru the '90s (probably the same caliper). The V8 and '91 200q20v UFO-brakes also use a single piston Ate caliper, but as we know, with a different config. mea culpa. --Linus *--------------------------------------------------------------------* * Linus Toy Insanity is doing the same thing * * Mercer Island, WA you've always done and expecting * * linust@mindspring.com different results * * - Roger Milliken * *--------------------------------------------------------------------* From SuffolkD at aol.com Thu May 2 19:42:34 2002 From: SuffolkD at aol.com (SuffolkD@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: A4 rims w/tires trisl fitments Message-ID: <1a5.1b34efb.2a031ada@aol.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I have 17" A4 knockoff rims mounted with 215 45 17 tires for trial fitments around the Boston area. -Scott in BOSTON In a message dated 5/2/02 4:49:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 200q20v-request@audifans.com writes: > Odds are I will go to 16" since there are so many Audi takeoff wheels > out there, courtesy of the A4 crowd. > From t44tq at mindspring.com Thu May 2 20:57:50 2002 From: t44tq at mindspring.com (TM) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Replacement UFO Pads In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20020502143626.00aaacc8@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <000401c1f235$2b7c9d20$0d42fea9@newpc> I apologize for spreading bad info. Paul, Linus, Bernie- thanks for setting the record straight. Sounds like the UFO caliper uses unique pads. Taka From rguzz at mindspring.com Thu May 2 22:18:08 2002 From: rguzz at mindspring.com (RGuzz) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: wheel repair Message-ID: Someone suggested a wheel repair place, I believe outside of Boston they had good results with. I had a set of tires put on by some clowns who fractured the clear coat on three out of four wheels, (RH Cuprads), which otherwise were untarnished. I assume they had trouble removing the old tires, and it looks like a tire iron or pry bar like tool was used, completely ruining about one half to one inch of clear coat, now exposing the finish to the elements. These wheels can be replaced for 300 bucks per, so costly repair isn't likely to be worth it. Any suggestions? Thanks, Rich From fundsaloracing at yahoo.com Fri May 3 04:31:55 2002 From: fundsaloracing at yahoo.com (Fundsalo Racing) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Replacement UFO Pads In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20020502143626.00aaacc8@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <20020503103155.62654.qmail@web13607.mail.yahoo.com> TEXTAR Contact me at werk if you need some: glen@northerneuropeanautomotive.com www.northerneuropeanautomotive.com -glen OOOO --- Linus Toy wrote: > At 01:50 PM 5/2/2002 -0700, maximum@weetamoo.com > wrote: > > >I "think" this is unsubstantiated rumor. I spent > several hours > >going through every manufacturers book I could find > and everything > >we had in inventory at Bavarian Autosport's > warehouse (ex-employee > >I am) looking for a match when Chris Miller was in > a pinch awhile > >back. I couldn't find anything that was even > mildly close. Shed > >some light if anyone can please. > > > >Royal aka 20RoT > > I may have been the source of that mis-information > from a long way back... > turns out I was partially right...just not for UFO > brakes. type 44 Audis > with conventional Ate (single piston) calipers use > an FMSI D394 pad...same > pad as used on many (not all) BMW 5- and 7- series > cars thru the '90s > (probably the same caliper). The V8 and '91 200q20v > UFO-brakes also use a > single piston Ate caliper, but as we know, with a > different config. mea culpa. > > --Linus > *--------------------------------------------------------------------* > * Linus Toy Insanity is doing > the same thing * > * Mercer Island, WA you've always done > and expecting * > * linust@mindspring.com different results > * > * - Roger > Milliken * > *--------------------------------------------------------------------* > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v ===== -glen "Upon common theaters, indeed, the applause of the audience is of more importance to the actors than their own approbation. But upon the stage of life, while conscience claps, let the world hiss! On the contrary if conscience dissapproves, the loudest applause of the world are of little value." John Adams OOOO __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com From b.m.benz at prodigy.net Fri May 3 07:28:49 2002 From: b.m.benz at prodigy.net (Bernie Benz) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Replacement UFO Pads In-Reply-To: <20020503103155.62654.qmail@web13607.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Are these Textar 21219, the reboxed Jurid 526FEs? How much? Bernie > From: Fundsalo Racing > Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 03:31:55 -0700 (PDT) > To: Linus Toy , maximum@weetamoo.com, > t44tq@mindspring.com > Cc: dbpulvino@hotmail.com, b.m.benz@prodigy.net, 200q20v@audifans.com > Subject: RE: Replacement UFO Pads > > > TEXTAR > > Contact me at werk if you need some: > > > glen@northerneuropeanautomotive.com > > www.northerneuropeanautomotive.com > > -glen > From smuckycat at hotmail.com Fri May 3 11:17:27 2002 From: smuckycat at hotmail.com (Joshua C) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: wheels Message-ID: I have read a lot of posts about people who like the BBS wheels, but they have not held up well over the past decade.. I had similar problems, clear coat peeling, some pitting etc... I refinished them myself with suprisingly decent results. I cleaned them well, brush, wheel cleaner/ repeat until rinse water is clear then I had the tires removed gave a light sanding to the lip and carefuly applied some aircraft paint stripper on the lip of the rim, scrape off after a while and reapply and repeat if there is still old clear coat. Have a wet sponge and squeeze bottle of water read incase you misplace the remover on the wheel. Then I wet sanded with 3-4 different grits working down to 1200 or finer, (sand until the pitting is gone) after the last wet sanding polish well with Aluminum polish. give the wheel a wash to remove dust etc... I then got some wheel clear coat at autozone, masked off the center portion of the wheel and gave it a few light coats (careful about dust). It took me a good weekend of working intermittently on the wheels but I was very happy with the results and didn't have to buy new wheels. just my idea _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From brett at cloud9.net Fri May 3 18:51:26 2002 From: brett at cloud9.net (Brett Dikeman) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: lister spotting, Wayland MA! Message-ID: This officially qualifies that the first 200q20v I've seen in the area around Wayland(only other spottings have been on the Mass Turnpike...all 3, about an average of 1 per year; this was this year's spotting :) Anyway, it was a black 200q20v, headed into the center of town, passed right in front of the town landfill. It would be a wikkid pissa if it wasa Listah as we say hea in Bawstin! Would also make for a 50% lister sighting ratio... Brett -- ---- "They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin http://www.users.cloud9.net/~brett/ From brianl at starsys.com Fri May 3 16:55:07 2002 From: brianl at starsys.com (Brian Link) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Driver side speaker repair Message-ID: <01C1F2BA.E624E120.brianl@starsys.com> Jobe, Did someone tell you to check the wiring going through the rubber accordion in the hinge area for broken wires. When my driver side speaker went out, the speaker wires were broken in the hinge as well as a few others looking worn. Just a thought before you remove your door panel. If you do remove your door panel there are a few other things you should check while you are in there. Lube your window regulator and all the lock mechanism. Brian Link Boulder, CO From: "Jobe Tichy" To: 200q20v@audifans.com Subject: Re: Front Door Speaker Grill Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 21:00:23 +0000 [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] Thanks all for the tips and write up for the door speakers and for the fore warning. Glad I didn't get in there with a flat head! Looks like I've got a new project. JOBE '91 200tq 20v '84 BMW 318i (modified) >From: Brett Dikeman >To: "Jobe Tichy" , 200q20v@audifans.com >Subject: Re: Front Door Speaker Grill >Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 15:54:42 -0400 > >At 7:37 PM +0000 5/2/02, Jobe Tichy wrote: > >>Quick question--Are the grills for the Bose speakers in the front >>doors >>removable? Or does the door skin have to come off and work from >>behind? My >>driver's speaker does not appear to be working, so I need to >>trouble shoot and >>I figured the first placed should be at the connection to the >>speaker and see >>if it works. It appears they pop rights off--I just want to make >>sure before >>I start prying off something that isn't supposed to:) Thanks > >The entire door panel must come off. It's not -that- hard. > >I have a full writeup here(including, I think, instructions on >removal, but it's been a few months since I looked at it.) > >http://frank.mercea.net/cgi-bin/random_bose.cgi > >The PDF version is much nicer, but as the index page warns, save and >open from desktop if you're on Windows...some versions of IE/Acrobat >plugin don't "like" my doc. > >Brett From paul at clarity.net Fri May 3 19:03:15 2002 From: paul at clarity.net (Paul R. Luevano) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: lister spotting, Wayland MA! References: Message-ID: <3CD30923.ED140666@clarity.net> Yo!! That was me. Would have waved back, but my windows were closed. :) Now, why did I think you were in NY state? See you around! Brett Dikeman wrote: > > This officially qualifies that the first 200q20v I've seen in the > area around Wayland(only other spottings have been on the Mass > Turnpike...all 3, about an average of 1 per year; this was this > year's spotting :) > > Anyway, it was a black 200q20v, headed into the center of town, > passed right in front of the town landfill. > > It would be a wikkid pissa if it wasa Listah as we say hea in Bawstin! > > Would also make for a 50% lister sighting ratio... -- ____________________________________________________________________ Paul Luevano | AMA * MSF |'99 CBR 600F4 (Racebike) http://teamdaemon.com | USM * CCS #898|'97 CBR 1100XX (Streetbike) Waltham, MA USA | NMA #116657 |'91 200TQ20V (Winter) _____"The purpose of man is to live, not to exist."-Jack London_____ From dkpriebe at attbi.com Fri May 3 22:52:49 2002 From: dkpriebe at attbi.com (dkpriebe) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Intermittant Wiper Relay Message-ID: <003801c1f327$8b465140$60b2e60c@attbi.com> Currently on the Audifans parts marketplace (http://www.audifans.com/marketplace) Jonathan Vogel has a number of intermittant wiper relays for sale for the rock bottom price $17. I bought a couple from him yesterday for both by 200tqa and my 95.5 S6. They are both installed and working, and so I'm looking forward to the rain this weekend to see them really in action. I know that he has a few more, and since I hadn't heard of them for less than around $30, I thought that I would pass this good deal along. Dave Priebe Kenmore, WA 91 200tqa 155K his 95.5 S6 99K hers From brett at cloud9.net Sun May 5 01:47:01 2002 From: brett at cloud9.net (Brett Dikeman) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Memorial Day weekend Lime Rock spectator event announcement In-Reply-To: <002e01c1f3ba$45a51d40$b5ab05cf@metrocast.net> References: <20020504110032.5C4F8331@www.audifans.com> <002e01c1f3ba$45a51d40$b5ab05cf@metrocast.net> Message-ID: At 6:23 PM -0400 5/4/02, jmcelroy wrote: >Just came across this site today. This is the team that builds Derek Bell's >& Michael Galati's S4's. Also Porsche, and Audi R8 Team. Many excellent >photos. http://www.champion-motors.com/racing/ If you check out the NEQ's website(www.neqclub.org), we're doing a shindig at Lime Rock Park when Bell/Galati come back to defend the title. There -will- be a corral for attendees, not sure on the details...I actually need to talk to the NEQ eventmaster(Mike Caleo) on that point(LRP offered up to set aside parking, I volunteered to organize that part, I think Paul Royal did too but I can't remember :-) Details that need to be worked out include who will be let in, where it will be, etc...I'll post more as soon as I talk to Mike about it. Anyway, we never got around to sending the announcement to the Audifans lists...So here it is! Brett ----------------------- The Northeast Region Audi Quattro Club of the Audi Car Club of North America cordially invites you to attend event four of the eleven event Speed World Challenge. Watch Audi(the reigning Manufacturer's Champion) defend their Manufacturer's Champion title with the powerhouse combination of Driver Champion Michael Galati and teammate Derek Bell in their Champion Motorsports S4 Competitions...complete with in-car commentary from Derek Bell! The Grand Prix weekend includes five major events: -The Speed GT Championship with Audi S4 drivers Galati and Bell -The Touring Car Championship -The Trans-Am Series for the BFGoodrich Tires Cup, featuring three-time champion Paul Gentilozzi -The Barber DodgePro Series -The Import Challenge Series presented by OMP. (Run on Saturday) Come to the Lime Rock Grand Prix and share the best spectator Motorsport experience in the northeast with your fellow Audi enthusiasts. Admission tickets include: -Paddock Passes for access to the NEQ -Hospitality Tent for guests -Signing session with Galati/Bell The hospitality area features: -appropriately sized canopy -guest tables, with linen/chairs -service tables, -closed circuit TV feed with live race action -timing and scoring. Also displayed will be the NEQ Club trailer and a few display cars including the Champion Motorsport backup car if available. Admission to hospitality entrances will be limited to possessors of passes only. What better way to welcome in "The Season" than to spend the day in the Valley of the Gods? If you've never been to Lime Rock Park, you're missing something special in the world of motorsport. The location of the hospitality area is at "The Point"(the grassy spectator hillside viewing the exit to Big Bend with cars heading straight toward our guests before negotiating the Left Hander and No- Name Straight.) This location also gives guests the quickest access route to the Paddock area and other entertainment options in the Park. The NEQ Hospitality tent will include Service Tables for caterers to supply food and beverages at individual's expense. Audi S4 drivers Galati and Bell should be available for an autograph session with Audi promotional memorabilia. We are offering two ticket options. Please note these are very favorable compared to "normal" LRP tickets(and you get much more!) Monday May 27, when all but the OMP Import Challenge Series will be run, and with the package described above, for $75. This is only $25 more than the advance ticket price and includes paddock access, which is normally only available with the purchase of a weekend Superticket. You also get the guarantee of a fabulous spot on the course, the hospitality tent, AND closed circuit TV with timing and scoring. A place to get out of the sun or alternatively to hide from the rain, and possibly chat a moment with Derek Bell... with food and beverages are available right there. Weekend pass, May 24-27, is priced at $100. Although the Hospitality tent will be available for use, it is only on Monday that it will include the other activities. For $25 more than the Monday ticket you get the whole weekend! CHILDREN 12 AND UNDER ARE ADMITTED FREE! There are a limited number of tickets available. Order yours ASAP. This is a NOT FOR PROFIT event for the NEQ. The application is available online for download from: http://www.borg.com/~neq/May27app.PDF Please see the NEQ website at http://www.neqclub.org for more information! We hope to see you there!! For more information on this special event see: www.limerock.com www.speedvisionwc.com -- From dale at themccormacks.org Sun May 5 00:50:21 2002 From: dale at themccormacks.org (Dale McCormack) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Intermittent Trunk Lock (aka 'Boot' for UK listers) Operation in Sedan Message-ID: <001501c1f3f0$5ce9a080$daa1fea9@attbi.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Any suggestions why my trunk would fail to unlock at the time locks in all = other doors functioned properly? My first thought is to check beneath the = rear seat for vacuum connection problems. Any other ideas? No mechanical = work has been performed inside the trunk recently. Dale -- From mcgranahanmike at hotmail.com Sun May 5 00:52:07 2002 From: mcgranahanmike at hotmail.com (mike mcgranahan) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] O=2EK. So I want to chip my car... Is it really just a matter of removing = the ECU sending it to someone like Hoppen motorsports and then replacing it= ? Could it be that easy?Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download= : http://explorer.msn.com From mcgranahanmike at hotmail.com Sun May 5 00:55:52 2002 From: mcgranahanmike at hotmail.com (mike mcgranahan) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: ECU modification Message-ID: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] with subject... ----- Original Message ----- From: mike mcgranahan Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 11:52 PM To: audi quattro Subject: O.K. So I want to chip my car... Is it really just a matter of removing the ECU sending it to someone like Hoppen motorsports and then replacing it? Could it be that easy? Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.comGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com From pck at gte.net Sun May 5 00:01:30 2002 From: pck at gte.net (pck@gte.net) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: (no subject) References: Message-ID: <003701c1f3fa$b9d67de0$4d48fea9@preferreduser> It's even easier if you live near Ned of Intended Acceleration and he pulls it out for you. But yea, that's about all there is too it. Pete Seattle, Wa ----- Original Message ----- From: "mike mcgranahan" To: "audi quattro" <200q20v@audifans.com> Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 10:52 PM Subject: (no subject) -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] O.K. So I want to chip my car... Is it really just a matter of removing the ECU sending it to someone like Hoppen motorsports and then replacing it? Could it be that easy?Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com _______________________________________________ 200q20v mailing list 200q20v@audifans.com http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From sscalmanini at yahoo.com Sun May 5 01:52:34 2002 From: sscalmanini at yahoo.com (Scalmanini Steve) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Intermittent Trunk Lock (aka 'Boot' for UK listers) Operation in Sedan Message-ID: <20020505075234.45782.qmail@web12406.mail.yahoo.com> Does it not unlock in both key positions? When the key slot it vertical, turning the key clockwise to a stop (~ 45 degrees) and pushing it in should unlock regardless of the state of the doors' locks or the vacuum system. When the key slot is horizontal, the lock state should be controlled by the state of the vacuum operated door locks: if the doors are locked by the vacuum system then the trunk button will not engage anything when pushed in; if the doors are unlocked by the vacuum system, then the trunk button will engage something when pushed that unlocks it. This last function has not worked for several years on my sedan after the car has sat in the sun for a while on warm days, say above the mid 80s. I think the problem is in the mechanism inside the trunk lid that moves some doohickie that the trunk release button should engage. ' hasn't been a high priority to repair. So which symptom do you have? If both, I would assume the problem is with the button/latch mechanism inside the trunk lid. Good luck, Steve ---------------------------------------------------- Any suggestions why my trunk would fail to unlock at the time locks in all other doors functioned properly? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com From Howell4619 at aol.com Sun May 5 09:01:54 2002 From: Howell4619 at aol.com (Howell4619) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Email Message-ID: <200205050800578.SM00290@Snh> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] ------------------ Virus Warning Message (on www.audifans.com) Found virus WORM_KLEZ.E in file href.bat The uncleanable file is deleted. --------------------------------------------------------- From root at localhost.audifans.com Sun May 5 08:32:00 2002 From: root at localhost.audifans.com (root@localhost.audifans.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Virus Alert Message-ID: <20020505113200.DE16A2E2@www.audifans.com> Have detected a virus (WORM_KLEZ.E) in your mail traffic on 05/05/2002 07:31:51 with an action deleted. From fundsaloracing at yahoo.com Sun May 5 06:17:44 2002 From: fundsaloracing at yahoo.com (Fundsalo Racing) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: insurance - now brakes In-Reply-To: <000701c1f1dc$b989cec0$0d42fea9@newpc> Message-ID: <20020505121744.31108.qmail@web13601.mail.yahoo.com> We did not replace the turbos. We did install the APR Stage II kit, 307HP if I remember right. APR has an excellent site @ www.goapr.com with HP & torque curves, etc. APR Stage III for the 2.7T does include new turbos, but is not yet available, will be about 420HP I hear. Cheers, -glen OOOO --- TM wrote: > Glen- > Did you replace the turbos? S4tts make big power > once you put > at least K04s on the engine. > > Taka > > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v ===== -glen OOOO "....if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one" Jesus Christ to the Eleven Apostles at the Last Supper __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com From knotnook at traverse.com Sun May 5 09:32:57 2002 From: knotnook at traverse.com (Kneale Brownson) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Intermittent Trunk Lock (aka 'Boot' for UK listers) Operation in Sedan In-Reply-To: <001501c1f3f0$5ce9a080$daa1fea9@attbi.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020505082717.00c31bd0@traverse.com> -- This has been covered well in the archives, or you can even see some pictures on Chris Miller's helpful website http://members.aol.com/c1j1miller/index.html Just put "trunk lock repair" in the search box and then select the first result. I've gotten the trunk lock to operate as intended by Audi on both the 200q20v and the V8 by removing the assembly, applying Kroil repeatedly to the ball/spring area and then using the BFH approach to getting the lever moving again. Afterward, I treat that latching system about every 3-4 months, just like I do all the door latches (on the trailing edge of each door) and locks in the front doors, with a penetrating oil that includes some teflon. At 11:50 PM 05/04/2002 -0500, Dale McCormack wrote: >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. >-- >[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] >Any suggestions why my trunk would fail to unlock at the time locks in all >other doors functioned properly? My first thought is to check beneath the >rear seat for vacuum connection problems. Any other ideas? No mechanical >work has been performed inside the trunk recently. >Dale > >-- > >_______________________________________________ >200q20v mailing list >200q20v@audifans.com >http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v -- From fundsaloracing at yahoo.com Sun May 5 07:25:14 2002 From: fundsaloracing at yahoo.com (Fundsalo Racing) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: insurance In-Reply-To: <20020429211651.64140.qmail@web10408.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020505132514.20312.qmail@web13607.mail.yahoo.com> Coverage Sedan Avant Libility (100/300) injury 210 176 prop damage 82 69 Medical 22 17 Uninsured 53 53 Collision 159 163 ($1K ded) Comprehensive 120 99 ($100 ded) TOTAL 646 577 I'd drop the Comp but my last replacement windscreen listed at ~$1,200US! I need a new windscreen about every 2 years.... Interesting how much cheaper the Avant is.... (I get back about $200/year 'rebate') -glen OOOO --- Justin Olson wrote: > I just got a 91 200q 20vt. I've very suprised by the > cost of insurance. For full coverage I'm paying $205 > a > month. I just don't understand why it's so high. How > much do you guys pay? > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness > http://health.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v ===== -glen OOOO "....if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one" Jesus Christ to the Eleven Apostles at the Last Supper __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com From brett at cloud9.net Sun May 5 12:11:42 2002 From: brett at cloud9.net (Brett Dikeman) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Memorial Day weekend Lime Rock spectator event announcement In-Reply-To: References: <20020504110032.5C4F8331@www.audifans.com> <002e01c1f3ba$45a51d40$b5ab05cf@metrocast.net> Message-ID: At 12:47 AM -0400 5/5/02, Brett Dikeman wrote: >There -will- be a corral for attendees, not sure on the details...I >actually need to talk to the NEQ eventmaster(Mike Caleo) on that >point(LRP offered up to set aside parking, I volunteered to organize >that part, I think Paul Royal did too but I can't remember :-) Correction here folks...woke up this morning to an email from Paul. I had gotten my cards mixed up...never try, at 1am, to remember things from a meeting a couple of months ago! We had both agreed to help get word out of the event to the various Audi lists, but only I had volunteered to handle the corral. Sorry for the late night confusion, folks! Brett -- ---- "They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin http://www.users.cloud9.net/~brett/ From bimmer_dude at hotmail.com Sun May 5 22:05:36 2002 From: bimmer_dude at hotmail.com (Jobe Tichy) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Intermittent Trunk Lock (aka 'Boot' for UK listers) Operation in Sedan Message-ID: [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] I was just working on this the other day with a buddy and his 200. If you remove the back cover of the trunk lock mechanism, you will see the vaccuum actuator's connecting rod to the switch. For some reason, the control mechanism on the lock becomes very sticky and too much resistance for the vacuum actuator to rotate it to the correct unlock/lock position with the central locking system. With the one I was working on, it was just VERY DIRTY inside. Removing the trunk lock mechanism and doing a through clean up and regrease of that one part did the trick--Lock works fine now. Of course, remove the vacuum actuator to see if there is a leak there. In my case, it was just fine. It helped to have a friend move the lock up and down inside the car, so you could see how everything works back there no the trunk--in my case, you could see the actuator working, it was just stressed and could not push the lock control mechanism. Hope this helps. About 30 minutes of trouble shooting and cleaning of the mechanism--AFTER IT WAS OUT OF THE CAR--solved the problem. I don't recommend cleaning while it is in the car because there are the electrical parts for the lock heater there--which could do without getting moist. JOBE '91 200tq 20v '84 BMW 318i (modified) >From: "Dale McCormack" >To: <200q20v@audifans.com> >Subject: Intermittent Trunk Lock (aka 'Boot' for UK listers) Operation in Sedan >Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 23:50:21 -0500 > >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. >-- >[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] >Any suggestions why my trunk would fail to unlock at the time locks in all other doors functioned properly? My first thought is to check beneath the rear seat for vacuum connection problems. Any other ideas? No mechanical work has been performed inside the trunk recently. >Dale > >-- > >_______________________________________________ >200q20v mailing list >200q20v@audifans.com >http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: Click Here[1] ===References:=== 1. http://g.msn.com/1HM105401/45 From eyvind.spangen at c2i.net Mon May 6 00:17:44 2002 From: eyvind.spangen at c2i.net (Eyvind Spangen) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Intermittent Trunk Lock (aka 'Boot' for UK listers) Operation in Sedan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7a8bdu060ur18es8g5lqfrli6nh2u122vu@4ax.com> On Sun, 05 May 2002 21:05:36 +0000, you wrote: >mechanism--AFTER IT WAS OUT OF THE CAR--solved the problem. I don't recommend >cleaning while it is in the car because there are the electrical parts for the >lock heater there--which could do without getting moist. There is no lock heater in the trunk lock. The wiring there is for the alarm system.. -- E. Spangen '90 Audi 200TQ 20v (godt parkert i l?ven uten skilter) '96 Sykkel, drevet av '81 fattig student From dkpriebe at attbi.com Sun May 5 15:46:00 2002 From: dkpriebe at attbi.com (dkpriebe) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Under hood light falling out Message-ID: <001b01c1f47e$40a07a00$60b2e60c@attbi.com> Whenever I open the hood on my car the light on the underside of the hood falls out and hangs by the wiring. I'm able to pop it back. I feels very loose and of course its out again next time I open the hood. I imagine that it falls out when I go over a pump or something. The sheet metal around it looks fine, and the plastic clips aren't broken. Anyone else have this problem or a good solution? I'm thinking of either trying to duct tape it in there, or simply remove it. Thanks, Dave Priebe Kenmore, WA 91 200tqa 155k his 95.5 S6 99k hers From project20vt at yahoo.com Sun May 5 18:21:43 2002 From: project20vt at yahoo.com (Justin Olson) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Low boost high rpm roll on Message-ID: <20020506002143.53513.qmail@web10408.mail.yahoo.com> I just recently noticed a weird thing happening with my car. When in 3rd, 4th or 5th gear and flooring it above 3000 rpm, my car won’t make more then 1.6 bar of boost If I really load the car up in 4th or 5th gear, flooring it at 1600 rpm, it will make 1.8 bar by 2400rpm. It just seems weird to me that the car won’t make boost if I drop it into 4th on the freeway and floor it. Is this a common characteristic of these cars? My car is completely stock except for a forge bypass valve. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com From bimmer_dude at hotmail.com Mon May 6 03:20:56 2002 From: bimmer_dude at hotmail.com (Jobe Tichy) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Intermittent Trunk Lock (aka 'Boot' for UK listers) Operation in Sedan Message-ID: [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] That's cool...I thought that the alarm system worked off of the trunk light switch. What's the purpose of the sensor then on the trunk lock switch? To determine if the switch is being rotated in the even of a break in? JOBE '91 200tq 20v '84 BMW 318i (modified) >From: Eyvind Spangen >To: "Jobe Tichy" >CC: dale@themccormacks.org, 200q20v@audifans.com >Subject: Re: Intermittent Trunk Lock (aka 'Boot' for UK listers) Operation= in Sedan >Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 23:17:44 +0200 > >On Sun, 05 May 2002 21:05:36 +0000, you wrote: > > >mechanism--AFTER IT WAS OUT OF THE CAR--solved the problem. I don't recommend > >cleaning while it is in the car because there are the electrical parts f= or the > >lock heater there--which could do without getting moist. > >There is no lock heater in the trunk lock. The wiring there is for the >alarm system.. > >-- >E. Spangen >'90 Audi 200TQ 20v (godt parkert i l=E5ven uten skilter) >'96 Sykkel, drevet av '81 fattig student ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: Click Here[1] =3D=3D=3DReferences:=3D=3D=3D 1. http://g.msn.com/1HM105401/43 From dans at audifans.com Sun May 5 23:58:09 2002 From: dans at audifans.com (Dan Simoes) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: new 91 200tqa owner Message-ID: <3CD5F141.5FD21BBF@audifans.com> Guess who? Thanks to Peter Schulz who tipped me off to this wagon in my backyard. Price was right on this 2 owner car with 97k miles, dealer maintained until 80k. It's officially mine as of today. So, on with the repairs :) big problems (advice welcome): - dash lights flakey (hi indicator/signals) - defrost switch intermittent, bad contact? - radio reception sucks. antenna ground or amp? - needs bomb - low boost problem. no codes, replaced 02 sensor per mechanic who said it was dead. runs better but still only to 1.4 bar. small problems: - trunk struts shot - oil temp gauge inoperative - valve cover gasket leaks - has small pentosin leak (pump?) Questions: - this car has the gamma radio, when according to the manual it should have the presets. Which is correct for the avant? Is the gamma capable of controlling the factory CD changer, which I've heard is RF based? - anyone interested in a set of MXV4s in stock size, with 9-10/32" of tread? Nice tires for the average joe, but not for me. From b.m.benz at prodigy.net Sun May 5 21:15:25 2002 From: b.m.benz at prodigy.net (Bernie Benz) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Intermittent Trunk Lock (aka 'Boot' for UK listers) Operation in Sedan In-Reply-To: Message-ID: An obvious but limited convience to be able to disarm and rearm the alarm system from the trunk lock without having to disarm and unlock a door first. But a RKE trivilizes the problem and the need to ever use a door key. Bernie > From: "Jobe Tichy" > Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 02:20:56 +0000 > To: eyvind.spangen@c2i.net > Cc: dale@themccormacks.org, 200q20v@audifans.com > Subject: Re: Intermittent Trunk Lock (aka 'Boot' for UK listers) Operation in > Sedan > > [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] > > That's cool...I thought that the alarm system worked off of the trunk light > switch. What's the purpose of the sensor then on the trunk lock switch? To > determine if the switch is being rotated in the even of a break in? > > JOBE > > '91 200tq 20v > > '84 BMW 318i (modified) >> From: Eyvind Spangen >> To: "Jobe Tichy" >> CC: dale@themccormacks.org, 200q20v@audifans.com >> Subject: Re: Intermittent Trunk Lock (aka 'Boot' for UK listers) Operation in > Sedan >> Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 23:17:44 +0200 >> >> On Sun, 05 May 2002 21:05:36 +0000, you wrote: >> >>> mechanism--AFTER IT WAS OUT OF THE CAR--solved the problem. I don't > recommend >>> cleaning while it is in the car because there are the electrical parts for > the >>> lock heater there--which could do without getting moist. >> >> There is no lock heater in the trunk lock. The wiring there is for the >> alarm system.. >> >> -- >> E. Spangen >> '90 Audi 200TQ 20v (godt parkert i l?ven uten skilter) >> '96 Sykkel, drevet av '81 fattig student > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: Click Here[1] > > ===References:=== > 1. http://g.msn.com/1HM105401/43 > > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From brett at cloud9.net Mon May 6 01:17:22 2002 From: brett at cloud9.net (Brett Dikeman) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Intermittent Trunk Lock (aka 'Boot' for UK listers) Operation in Sedan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 2:20 AM +0000 5/6/02, Jobe Tichy wrote: >[ Converted text/html to text/plain ] > >That's cool...I thought that the alarm system worked off of the trunk light >switch. Probably does, I'd have to check the Bentley. > What's the purpose of the sensor then on the trunk lock switch? To >determine if the switch is being rotated in the even of a break in? My guess is that it tells the alarm that someone stuck a key in and unlocked the trunk so it doesn't go off... Brett -- ---- "They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin http://www.users.cloud9.net/~brett/ From Jeff.Bernstein at pneumaticscale.com Mon May 6 08:18:09 2002 From: Jeff.Bernstein at pneumaticscale.com (Jeff.Bernstein@pneumaticscale.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Radiator Repair Kit Message-ID: Last night the top radiator hose broke off of the radiator. There was still enough nipple left on the radiator to reconnect the hose but I'm afraid that on a hot day the hose will pop of since the flange at the end of the radiator nipple is gone now. Does anyone know what the part number of the radiator repair kit for this problem is? Thanks, Jeff Bernstein Canton, Ohio From peschulz at cisco.com Mon May 6 11:13:48 2002 From: peschulz at cisco.com (Peter Schulz) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: wheel repair In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020506101213.0378acb0@millcity.cisco.com> Rich: I've used and recommend www.rimpro.com off Rt 93 N in Tewksbury then there's rim and wheel works in Newton - they are pricier I think HTH -Peter At 09:18 PM 5/2/2002 -0400, RGuzz wrote: >Someone suggested a wheel repair place, I believe outside of Boston they >had good results with. I had a set of tires put on by some clowns who >fractured the clear coat on three out of four wheels, (RH Cuprads), >which otherwise were untarnished. I assume they had trouble removing the >old tires, and it looks like a tire iron or pry bar like tool was used, >completely ruining about one half to one inch of clear coat, now >exposing the finish to the elements. These wheels can be replaced for >300 bucks per, so costly repair isn't likely to be worth it. >Any suggestions? >Thanks, >Rich > >_______________________________________________ >200q20v mailing list >200q20v@audifans.com >http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v Peter Schulz 1990 CQ 1991 200 20v TQW indigo mica 1991 200 20v TQW titanium grey Chelmsford, MA USA peschulz@cisco.com From motogo1 at cox.net Mon May 6 13:26:59 2002 From: motogo1 at cox.net (motogo1) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: new 91 200tqa owner References: <3CD5F141.5FD21BBF@audifans.com> Message-ID: <000c01c1f533$fe1dfd40$31000e44@ri.cox.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Simoes" To: <200q20v@audifans.com> Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 7:58 PM Subject: new 91 200tqa owner > - needs bomb Not too hard to replace. About $230 > - low boost problem. no codes, replaced 02 sensor per mechanic who said > it was dead. runs better but still only to 1.4 bar. I'd check turbo overrun (bypass) valve. Remove vacuum hose at rear of manifold. Pull vacuum of about 6 lbs. It should hold. No vacuum or it drops quickly, TBV is shot, or maybe hose has leak. Mine was gone when I bought my Avant last year at about the same mileage. Gary Martin CT-USA 94 UrS4 91 200 TQA > From dans at audifans.com Mon May 6 13:45:50 2002 From: dans at audifans.com (Dan Simoes) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: new 91 200tqa owner References: <3CD5F141.5FD21BBF@audifans.com> Message-ID: <3CD6B33E.8BFCECE1@audifans.com> One other question I forgot - does anyone have the list of parts needed to install the rear child seat tether anchors, and how hard is it? In the trunk area, I see two small flaps that reveal a perforated line in the metal. I was expecting to find the threaded holes for the anchors, but no such luck... From MTrank at albemarle.org Mon May 6 13:50:20 2002 From: MTrank at albemarle.org (Mark Trank) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Brake conversion Message-ID: Fellow listers: After unsuccessfully attempting the Q-list UFO fix (80 to 20 mph several times), and experiencing increasingly violent front end shaking when braking, and now getting the brake pad light, I guess I need new front rotors and pads. Original UFOs w/ 94k miles. Checking with Clair I was quoted approximately $290 for G-60 rotors and pads.........versus about $540 for replacement UFOs and pads. I'm tempted to go the G-60 route, given the cost differential, and I recognize the trade-off in stopping power, UFOs v. G-60. But am I also looking at a suspension refitting as well? Or will the G-60s mount on the existing hub assembly w/ no problems? Thanks for the advice, as always, and I apologize for asking the same question that has been addressed numerous times previously. Mark mtrank@albemarle.org 91 200q20v 94k miles, shakin' and quakin' From dkpriebe at attbi.com Mon May 6 17:55:21 2002 From: dkpriebe at attbi.com (dkpriebe@attbi.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: new 91 200tqa owner Message-ID: <20020506165521.RWUL5896.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@rwcrwbc55> Could you post this information to the list when (or if) you find out? I too have been curious about using the tethers in the avant. The owners manual indicates that it is for Canadian models only, but I'm sure that it just needs the proper mounting hardware. Thanks, Dave Priebe Kenmore, WA 91 200tqa 155k his 95.5 S6 99k hers > One other question I forgot - does anyone have the list of parts needed > to install the rear child seat tether anchors, and how hard is it? > In the trunk area, I see two small flaps that reveal a perforated line > in the metal. I was expecting to find the threaded holes for the > anchors, but no such luck... > > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From peschulz at cisco.com Mon May 6 14:08:54 2002 From: peschulz at cisco.com (Peter Schulz) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Brake conversion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020506130609.01789380@millcity.cisco.com> At 12:50 PM 5/6/2002 -0400, Mark Trank wrote: >Fellow listers: > >After unsuccessfully attempting the Q-list UFO fix (80 to 20 mph several >times), and experiencing increasingly violent front end shaking when >braking, and now getting the brake pad light, I guess I need new front >rotors and pads. Original UFOs w/ 94k miles. Checking with Clair I was >quoted approximately $290 for G-60 rotors and pads.........versus about $540 >for replacement UFOs and pads. I'm tempted to go the G-60 route, given the >cost differential, and I recognize the trade-off in stopping power, UFOs v. >G-60. But am I also looking at a suspension refitting as well? Or will the >G-60s mount on the existing hub assembly w/ no problems? Mark: Yes - you need the G60 struts/hubs and tied rods, too. Re: Violent shaking - make sure that the caliper guide pins are moving freely and that your lower control arm bushings are not warn. The bentley manual discusses some recommended solutions to UFO shaking... HTH -Peter Peter Schulz 1990 CQ 1991 200 20v TQW indigo mica 1991 200 20v TQW titanium grey Chelmsford, MA USA peschulz@cisco.com From pjrose at frontiernet.net Mon May 6 14:27:11 2002 From: pjrose at frontiernet.net (Phil Rose) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Brake conversion In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020506130609.01789380@millcity.cisco.com> References: Message-ID: At 6:08 PM +0100 5/6/02, Peter Schulz wrote: >At 12:50 PM 5/6/2002 -0400, Mark Trank wrote: >>Fellow listers: >> >>After unsuccessfully attempting the Q-list UFO fix (80 to 20 mph several >>times), and experiencing increasingly violent front end shaking when >>braking, and now getting the brake pad light, I guess I need new front >>rotors and pads. Original UFOs w/ 94k miles. Checking with Clair I was >>quoted approximately $290 for G-60 rotors and pads.........versus about $540 >>for replacement UFOs and pads. I'm tempted to go the G-60 route, given the >>cost differential, and I recognize the trade-off in stopping power, UFOs v. >>G-60. But am I also looking at a suspension refitting as well? Or will the >>G-60s mount on the existing hub assembly w/ no problems? > > >Mark: >Yes - you need the G60 struts/hubs and tied rods, too. >Re: Violent shaking - make sure that the caliper guide pins are moving >freely and that your lower control arm bushings are not warn. >The bentley manual discusses some recommended solutions to UFO shaking... > > Also, consider the _total_ economics: labor (and/or time), strut conversion parts, etc. I believe others have estimated that a G60 conversion works out to be advantageous only after two or more cycles of rotor & pad replacements. Considering that new UFO rotors can last well over 100K (given proper care and feeding, of course), you would likely be ahead both money and braking ability by staying with the UFO system. Of course if you can get the strut conversion parts "donated", you would have a head start Phil (both cars with dealer conversions, so I didn't have to make the decision :-) Phil Rose '91 200q lago blue Rochester, NY USA '91 200q tornado red mailto:pjrose@frontiernet.net From knotnook at traverse.com Mon May 6 14:53:19 2002 From: knotnook at traverse.com (Kneale Brownson) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Brake conversion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020506134632.00c32660@traverse.com> -- Besides determining whether the rest of your front end is in order, you need to make certain you are really getting the UFO's hot to overcome the warping. I found on "conditioning" the V8's UFO's (unfortunately, my 200q20v came with the G60's) that besides several rapid decelerations, I needed to be sure the rotors got really hot by holding the pads against them lightly during the accelerations between heavy stops. But I never experienced bad front end shaking either before or after the anti-warp treatments, just severe brake throbbing before. One really thorough heating/cooling cycle seems to last about six months of my wife holding the brakes in one spot at every stop. At 12:50 PM 05/06/2002 -0400, Mark Trank wrote: >Fellow listers: > >After unsuccessfully attempting the Q-list UFO fix (80 to 20 mph several >times), and experiencing increasingly violent front end shaking when >braking, and now getting the brake pad light, I guess I need new front >rotors and pads. Original UFOs w/ 94k miles. Checking with Clair I was >quoted approximately $290 for G-60 rotors and pads.........versus about $540 >for replacement UFOs and pads. I'm tempted to go the G-60 route, given the >cost differential, and I recognize the trade-off in stopping power, UFOs v. >G-60. But am I also looking at a suspension refitting as well? Or will the >G-60s mount on the existing hub assembly w/ no problems? > >Thanks for the advice, as always, and I apologize for asking the same >question that has been addressed numerous times previously. > >Mark >mtrank@albemarle.org > >91 200q20v 94k miles, shakin' and quakin' >_______________________________________________ >200q20v mailing list >200q20v@audifans.com >http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v -- From dans at audifans.com Mon May 6 15:45:47 2002 From: dans at audifans.com (Dan Simoes) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: new 91 200tqa owner References: <3CD5F141.5FD21BBF@audifans.com> <000c01c1f533$fe1dfd40$31000e44@ri.cox.net> Message-ID: <3CD6CF5B.6EF6B4C8@audifans.com> > I'd check turbo overrun (bypass) valve. Remove vacuum hose at rear of > manifold. Pull vacuum of about 6 lbs. It should hold. No vacuum or it drops > quickly, TBV is shot, or maybe hose has leak. Mine was gone when I bought my > Avant last year at about the same mileage. Ah yes, that would be the vac hose I just replaced. The one that I had to remove the ISV to get to the manifold, the heat shield on the back of the motor, and the bypass valve itself :) I did check the bypass valve manually by sucking on it and it seemed to be OK, but of course I can't be sure. Brett thinks it could be the WGFV so I will check that tonight. From Djdawson2 at aol.com Mon May 6 16:06:24 2002 From: Djdawson2 at aol.com (Djdawson2@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:58 2003 Subject: Low boost high rpm roll on Message-ID: <195.6898cb7.2a082e30@aol.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] This is in fact, normal. If you look through the Bentley manual you will find that max boost will taper off as rpm's increase. There is a graph to show you visually. I believe the test described in the manual tells you to put the car in 3rd or 4th gear at 37mph, then floorboard it. Boost will climb to max, and then fall off. Verify this in the manual because I'm going strictly off of memory here. I've been told that most chips for these cars will maintain this characteristic, but that if you go to the Stage III+ type chips, you will see the car maintain max boost on up through redline... well beyond the stock K24's efficient operating range. Max boost in the 4k + rpm range has turned the K24 into a heat pump anyway, at which point you are risking catastrophic failure (thrown rod, melted piston, etc). If you want to run these boost levels you'd need to consider a different turbo and probably an RS2 EM. HTH, Dave From v8q at bellsouth.net Mon May 6 16:09:06 2002 From: v8q at bellsouth.net (David Head) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Brake conversion References: Message-ID: <3CD6D4D2.CCCFC23B@bellsouth.net> Before you do that - have you checked your control arms? Are you getting pulsation at very low speed, soft braking stops (5-10mph). If not, but you're getting serious front end shaking at higher speeds you may have bad control arms instead. Mark Trank wrote: > Fellow listers: > > After unsuccessfully attempting the Q-list UFO fix (80 to 20 mph several > times), and experiencing increasingly violent front end shaking when > braking, and now getting the brake pad light, I guess I need new front > rotors and pads. Original UFOs w/ 94k miles. Checking with Clair I was > quoted approximately $290 for G-60 rotors and pads.........versus about $540 > for replacement UFOs and pads. I'm tempted to go the G-60 route, given the > cost differential, and I recognize the trade-off in stopping power, UFOs v. > G-60. But am I also looking at a suspension refitting as well? Or will the > G-60s mount on the existing hub assembly w/ no problems? > > Thanks for the advice, as always, and I apologize for asking the same > question that has been addressed numerous times previously. > > Mark > mtrank@albemarle.org > > 91 200q20v 94k miles, shakin' and quakin' > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From maximum at weetamoo.com Mon May 6 13:16:37 2002 From: maximum at weetamoo.com (maximum@weetamoo.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Brake conversion Message-ID: <20020506121640.18322.h015.c001.wm@mail.weetamoo.com.criticalpath.net> UFO's are now down below $220 a piece... @ Zygmunt for example.. www.bimmerparts.com. Also, just picked up Remsa UFO semi-mets for about $59... while I wait for my long overdue Mintex. Royal aka 20RoT Mark Trank wrote > > Fellow listers: > > After unsuccessfully attempting the Q-list UFO fix (80 to 20 mph several > times), and experiencing increasingly violent front end shaking when > braking, and now getting the brake pad light, I guess I need new front > rotors and pads. Original UFOs w/ 94k miles. Checking with Clair I was > quoted approximately $290 for G-60 rotors and pads.........versus about $540 > for replacement UFOs and pads. I'm tempted to go the G-60 route, given the > cost differential, and I recognize the trade-off in stopping power, UFOs v. > G-60. But am I also looking at a suspension refitting as well? Or will the > G-60s mount on the existing hub assembly w/ no problems? > > Thanks for the advice, as always, and I apologize for asking the same > question that has been addressed numerous times previously. > > Mark > mtrank@albemarle.org > > 91 200q20v 94k miles, shakin' and quakin' > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From t44tq at mindspring.com Mon May 6 16:49:42 2002 From: t44tq at mindspring.com (TM) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Brake conversion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c1f537$2acc4100$0d42fea9@newpc> Mark- In order to use the G60 brakes, you need the entire suspension uprights (strut bodies) from a converted V8 or an UrS, as well as hubs, calipers, new brake lines, rotors and pads. I don't know whether or not the ABS sensor changes. You're talking about around $900 for the whole thing. I would either stick w/ UFOs and pay for new rotors or consider the BIRA System 2 UFO upgrade. Also, have you checked your control arm and swaybar bushings? When they go, you get a lot of front end vibration under braking. Taka From knotnook at traverse.com Mon May 6 17:09:20 2002 From: knotnook at traverse.com (Kneale Brownson) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Brake conversion In-Reply-To: <20020506121640.18322.h015.c001.wm@mail.weetamoo.com.critic alpath.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020506160757.03457150@traverse.com> -- That's true, Royal, but if you're replacing two and adding new pads, Zygmunt gets $530 + shipping. Looks like the $540 Mark was quoted. At 12:16 PM 05/06/2002 -0700, maximum@weetamoo.com wrote: >UFO's are now down below $220 a piece... @ Zygmunt for example.. >www.bimmerparts.com. >Also, just picked up Remsa UFO semi-mets for about $59... while I wait for >my long >overdue Mintex. > >Royal aka 20RoT > >Mark Trank wrote > > > > > Fellow listers: > > > > After unsuccessfully attempting the Q-list UFO fix (80 to 20 mph several > > times), and experiencing increasingly violent front end shaking when > > braking, and now getting the brake pad light, I guess I need new front > > rotors and pads. Original UFOs w/ 94k miles. Checking with Clair I was > > quoted approximately $290 for G-60 rotors and pads.........versus about > $540 > > for replacement UFOs and pads. I'm tempted to go the G-60 route, given the > > cost differential, and I recognize the trade-off in stopping power, UFOs v. > > G-60. But am I also looking at a suspension refitting as well? Or > will the > > G-60s mount on the existing hub assembly w/ no problems? > > > > Thanks for the advice, as always, and I apologize for asking the same > > question that has been addressed numerous times previously. > > > > Mark > > mtrank@albemarle.org > > > > 91 200q20v 94k miles, shakin' and quakin' > > _______________________________________________ > > 200q20v mailing list > > 200q20v@audifans.com > > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v >_______________________________________________ >200q20v mailing list >200q20v@audifans.com >http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v -- From sscalmanini at yahoo.com Mon May 6 15:19:23 2002 From: sscalmanini at yahoo.com (Scalmanini Steve) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Brake conversion Message-ID: <20020506211923.92908.qmail@web12401.mail.yahoo.com> Or, if there's enough material left on your UFOs (not unusual even at 94K) you could have them turned for ~$50 ea. plus shipping. See Chris's site for details: < http://members.aol.com/c1j1miller/brake.html#Turning%20UFOs > Steve Ukiah, CA __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com From brett at cloud9.net Mon May 6 19:27:57 2002 From: brett at cloud9.net (Brett Dikeman) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: someone's Klez-infected system is using my email address Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 James Accordino just got an email with my name/address as the claimed sender...something about the Spice Girls. Both my mailer(Eudora) and my operating system(MacOS X) are completely incapable of being affected by Klez, so it's not me....guaranteed. Someone else's system has decided to use my email address, just like a few days ago it was Chris Miller's name/address. I -never- send emails with attachments without prior arrangements. Delete any messages from me if they have an attachment. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBPNcDJEbbsPyyVEUGEQK88gCfTj0ygwqcjQWUQZPXVzH9ivEpWbcAoOz3 bJxjbNq/6keAt6XF/Tc33U+y =6UVR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- ---- "They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin http://www.users.cloud9.net/~brett/ From mikemilr at blackfoot.net Mon May 6 17:39:33 2002 From: mikemilr at blackfoot.net (Mike Miller) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: someone's Klez-infected system is using my email address References: Message-ID: <00fd01c1f54e$e738d440$5d2c010a@direcpc.com> Brett - the way that virus works is that it sends out emails to everyone in the Outlook/Express address book on the infected machine - however, it takes a random address from that address book and uses that to spoof the From: So, if I had you in my address book, along with 50 other people, and I had that virus, it would email everyone while making it appear that it came from *you*. This virus is really spreading. I thinik we have had at least 4 copies sent to the list. mike miller ----- Original Message ----- From: Brett Dikeman To: Cc: <200q20v@audifans.com> Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 4:27 PM Subject: someone's Klez-infected system is using my email address From b.m.benz at prodigy.net Mon May 6 16:48:09 2002 From: b.m.benz at prodigy.net (Bernie Benz) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Brake conversion In-Reply-To: <20020506211923.92908.qmail@web12401.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Certainly not my advice! All rotors tend to wear true. Don't turn them unless you have put a dial indicator on them and measured excessive runout. Enough material to me means that the vent slots are not showing through the disk surface. Don't fix it if it ain't broke! Find the real problem. Bernie > From: Scalmanini Steve > Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 14:19:23 -0700 (PDT) > To: 200q20v@audifans.com > Subject: Brake conversion > > Or, if there's enough material left on your UFOs (not > unusual even at 94K) you could have them turned for > ~$50 ea. plus shipping. See Chris's site for details: > < > http://members.aol.com/c1j1miller/brake.html#Turning%20UFOs >> > > Steve > Ukiah, CA > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness > http://health.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From jbeer at BooseCasey.com Mon May 6 19:59:37 2002 From: jbeer at BooseCasey.com (Beer, Jerald) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: brake conversion Message-ID: 20RoT Where did u find the Remsa's? I thought they were great street pads but cannot find them for the rears locally. Any source would be appreciated. TIA Regards, Jerry 91 200qa (Wildwood/Hawk HP plus front/stock HP plus rears) From sidman at montereynet.net Mon May 6 17:15:30 2002 From: sidman at montereynet.net (George Sidman) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Heater Core Replacement References: <20020506230034.1D4943C3@www.audifans.com> Message-ID: <3CD70E92.E2B0B617@montereynet.net> I have been to Scott and Chris' web sites and can not find details re heater core replacement, which I must do this week. Any advice? '91 200 TQW -- George Sidman, President Monterey Network Center sidman@montereynet.net 831. 657. 1500 From irautenberg at comcast.net Mon May 6 20:16:09 2002 From: irautenberg at comcast.net (Ingo Rautenberg) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: someone's Klez-infected system is using my email address References: Message-ID: <003f01c1f554$019fea80$42d22844@home> I have received a few other private e-mails that purported to be from other listers on the Urq list previously but were not. Crafty, too, with subjects like: "A special new website, a special good tool," plus the less stealthy "Playboy Vs...., etc" A clue: These all had the first part of the email address as the "from" identifier, rather than the full name. I suggest everyone update and run their virus protection software and please don't open any attachemnts that don't seem to make sense regardless of who its from. In list traffic the klez-worm is caught by the server, but non-list mail won't benefit from this. When in doubt, email the person in question before opening any attachments. More info on this insidious virus: http://www.grisoft.com/html/news/klezh.htm Ingo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett Dikeman" To: Cc: <200q20v@audifans.com> Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 6:27 PM Subject: someone's Klez-infected system is using my email address > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > James Accordino just got an email with my name/address as the claimed > sender...something about the Spice Girls. > > Both my mailer(Eudora) and my operating system(MacOS X) are > completely incapable of being affected by Klez, so it's not > me....guaranteed. Someone else's system has decided to use my email > address, just like a few days ago it was Chris Miller's name/address. > > I -never- send emails with attachments without prior arrangements. > Delete any messages from me if they have an attachment. From brett at cloud9.net Mon May 6 20:20:32 2002 From: brett at cloud9.net (Brett Dikeman) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: someone's Klez-infected system is using my email address In-Reply-To: <00fd01c1f54e$e738d440$5d2c010a@direcpc.com> References: <00fd01c1f54e$e738d440$5d2c010a@direcpc.com> Message-ID: At 4:39 PM -0600 5/6/02, Mike Miller wrote: >This virus is really spreading. I thinik we have had at least 4 copies sent >to the list. Just to make sure everyone who hasn't been following this stuff is on the same page...they're getting sent directly to list members, not through the list...they get intercepted by the antivirus software long before they make it to mailman, and if it doesn't catch it, Mailman nukes the attachment and anything except plaintext.... ...but yeah, we've had about 4-5 copies, at least, get intercepted by the virus scanner, from the notifications I've received(you guys shouldn't get those notifications, btw, but I think you are.) Brett -- ---- "They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin http://www.users.cloud9.net/~brett/ From maximum at weetamoo.com Mon May 6 17:38:45 2002 From: maximum at weetamoo.com (maximum@weetamoo.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: brake conversion Message-ID: <20020506163846.24136.h003.c001.wm@mail.weetamoo.com.criticalpath.net> No one was more surprised than I. A guy I used to work with at Bavarian Autosport's wife works at Foreign Autopart in Manchester, NH. I called her and there they were. It's a regular stock item for them. If you really like them and can't find them I could pick some up for you sometime. Phone # is 603-625-4441, ask for Carrie, she seems to know her stuff. Tell her you were referred by Paul Royal who used to work with your husband Alan Pierce. I don't think they ship...but I could be wrong. Royal aka 20RoT "Beer, Jerald" wrote > > 20RoT > Where did u find the Remsa's? I thought they were great street pads but > cannot find them for the rears locally. Any source would be appreciated. TIA > Regards, > Jerry > 91 200qa (Wildwood/Hawk HP plus front/stock HP plus rears) > > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From knotnook at traverse.com Mon May 6 21:05:43 2002 From: knotnook at traverse.com (Kneale Brownson) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Heater Core Replacement In-Reply-To: <3CD70E92.E2B0B617@montereynet.net> References: <20020506230034.1D4943C3@www.audifans.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020506200401.00c33d60@traverse.com> -- Should be in the "archives" available thru a Google search on Audifans.com for "heater core replacement" or similar terms. Probably a bunch of stuff on 4K/Coupe you'll need to ignore. If you can't find anything, I've got a couple descriptions saved to floppies I can send you as an attachment. At 04:15 PM 05/06/2002 -0700, George Sidman wrote: >I have been to Scott and Chris' web sites and can not find details re >heater core replacement, which I must do this week. Any advice? > >'91 200 TQW >-- >George Sidman, President >Monterey Network Center >sidman@montereynet.net >831. 657. 1500 >_______________________________________________ >200q20v mailing list >200q20v@audifans.com >http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v -- From bfoster at bu.edu Mon May 6 23:25:44 2002 From: bfoster at bu.edu (Bryan Foster) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Radiator Repair Kit Message-ID: Jeff, Just did my radiator yesterday. Part numbers are 200121003 for the epoxy and 200121001 for the plastic insert. Cost me $30. Make sure you are quick once you mix up the epoxy...It hardens real fast. Also, you don't have to drain the entire coolant system to do this. Just suck out the coolant in the expansion tank with a turkey baster and then disconnect the top radiator hose. Bryan Foster Boston, MA From SuffolkD at aol.com Mon May 6 23:55:07 2002 From: SuffolkD at aol.com (SuffolkD@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Don't open .zip attachments Message-ID: <197.690190a.2a089c0b@aol.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I get two or three copies of a varing attachment .zip with several different file sizes (56 and 60K) Just don't open or download the zip file. -Scott From r at 66-169-158-13.ftwrth.tx.charter.com Tue May 7 03:08:36 2002 From: r at 66-169-158-13.ftwrth.tx.charter.com (Rich Andrews) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Radiator Repair Kit References: Message-ID: <3CD77D74.8050300@66-169-158-13.ftwrth.tx.charter.com> Bryan Foster wrote: > Jeff, > Just did my radiator yesterday. Part numbers are 200121003 for the epoxy > and 200121001 for the plastic insert. Cost me $30. Make sure you are > quick once you mix up the epoxy...It hardens real fast. Also, you don't > have to drain the entire coolant system to do this. Just suck out the > coolant in the expansion tank with a turkey baster and then disconnect the > top radiator hose. > > Bryan Foster > Boston, MA > > > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v > Just keep in mind that you are just postponing the inevitable. You might as well start shopping. rich From fundsaloracing at yahoo.com Tue May 7 04:35:00 2002 From: fundsaloracing at yahoo.com (Fundsalo Racing) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Low boost high rpm roll on In-Reply-To: <195.6898cb7.2a082e30@aol.com> Message-ID: <20020507103500.8089.qmail@web13608.mail.yahoo.com> That would be "...will taper off as rpm inscrease." It's the 'r' that's plural, not the 'm' and the plural is implied as RPM is short for Revolutions Per Minute. Same as "RBI's", that's wrong; it's Runs Batted In, it's the "R"s that are plural, not the "I"s, and there would be no apostrophe either, it's just RPM or RBI. Just a little nit that always bothers me. Yes, I know, It is *my* problem. I just can't brake the habit! :) -glen --- Djdawson2@aol.com wrote: > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > This is in fact, normal. If you look through the > Bentley manual you will > find that max boost will taper off as rpm's > increase. There is a graph to > show you visually. I believe the test described in > the manual tells you to > put the car in 3rd or 4th gear at 37mph, then > floorboard it. Boost will > climb to max, and then fall off. Verify this in the > manual because I'm going > strictly off of memory here. > > I've been told that most chips for these cars will > maintain this > characteristic, but that if you go to the Stage III+ > type chips, you will see > the car maintain max boost on up through redline... > well beyond the stock > K24's efficient operating range. Max boost in the > 4k + rpm range has turned > the K24 into a heat pump anyway, at which point you > are risking catastrophic > failure (thrown rod, melted piston, etc). If you > want to run these boost > levels you'd need to consider a different turbo and > probably an RS2 EM. > HTH, > Dave > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v ===== -glen OOOO "....if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one" Jesus Christ to the Eleven Apostles at the Last Supper __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com From dans at audifans.com Tue May 7 08:51:34 2002 From: dans at audifans.com (Dan Simoes) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: output tests using vag-com Message-ID: <3CD7BFC6.3E63FD6B@audifans.com> Is it possible to do the output tests detailed on SJM's site using the vag-com? I have the adapter that converts the OBDII port to the split connectors used on the car, but since there are 3 connectors and I only have two, I'm not sure. Using the 1551 tool, my mechanic had been able to determine that the o2 sensor was dead, for example. All I could do was scan for engine codes and get measuring block data, but the vag-com doesn't include a label file for the 3B. From C1J1Miller at aol.com Tue May 7 09:22:43 2002 From: C1J1Miller at aol.com (C1J1Miller@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: new 91 200tqa owner Message-ID: <77FD1BF9.12B07C26.0959A538@aol.com> >Dan writes: > >Price was right on this 2 >owner car with 97k miles, >dealer >maintained until 80k. It's >officially mine as of today. >So, on with the repairs :) > >big problems (advice welcome): >- dash lights flakey (hi >indicator/signals) You likely have a break in the circuit board. This can be fixed; here's one description. http://www.lanikamal.com/audi/dashboard.html >- defrost switch intermittent, >bad contact? Start with contact cleaner on the switch. >- radio reception sucks. >antenna ground or amp? The wagon has an amplified antenna in the roof at the rear; open the hatch, pull the trim, slightly drop the headliner, and you can access the antenna base to unbolt it. Likely the amp needs replacement. >- needs bomb The hydraulic accumulator is fairly easy to change, just make very sure to relieve the residual pressure prior to disconnecting it. >- low boost problem. no >codes, replaced 02 sensor per >mechanic who said >it was dead. runs better but >still only to 1.4 bar. Try this: Pull the harness connector to the multi function temperature sensor. This sensor is on the external coolant rail on the driver's side of the engine, with a rubber boot and 3-4 wires. See if you get full boost; if so, your sensor is sending a ground "overheat" signal; you likely won't have A/C as well. If that isn't it, your wastegate frequency valve isn't operating. You can hook up an LED test light to the circuit to see if the ECU is activating the valve. Should have about 35 ohms resistance. > >small problems: >- trunk struts shot >- oil temp gauge inoperative >- valve cover gasket leaks >- has small pentosin leak >(pump?) > >Questions: >- this car has the gamma >radio, when according to the >manual it should >have the presets. Which is >correct for the avant? Is the >gamma capable >of controlling the factory CD >changer, which I've heard is >RF based? Likely your radio was replaced through the dealer; the Delta may not be available, so you got the Gamma. The factory changer was not installed in the wagon. It was rf; you'd set the radio to 88.3 and listen (no control through the radio, it has a separate pod for controlling the changer). >One other question I forgot - >does anyone have the list of >parts needed to install the >rear child seat tether >anchors, and how hard is it? >In the trunk area, I see two >small flaps that reveal a >perforated line in the metal. >I was expecting to find the >threaded holes for the >anchors, but no such luck... Audi issued a Technical Service Bulletin addressing this: http://www.bentleypublishers.com/tech/audi/audi.tb.69-97-01.pdf Bentley Publishers produces the service manual: Audi 100, 200: 1989-1991 Official Factory Repair Manual Including 100 Quattro, 200 Quattro, Wagon, Turbo and 20-valve models http://www.bentleypublishers.com/product.htm?code=a191 Your car is pretty popular as an enthusiast model, despite it's limited production numbers. See these enthusiast sites for more: http://members.aol.com/c1j1miller/welcome.html http://www.sjmautotechnik.com http://tech.bentleypublishers.com:8080/~audi Hope this helps, Chris From mlped at qwest.net Tue May 7 08:35:19 2002 From: mlped at qwest.net (mlp) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Carbon fiber - use, kits & self help resources In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Do the list(s) have any self help pointers, tips, suggestions, resources or general guides for either (a) "do it yourself" carbon fiber work; or (b) any suggestions for persons or people or firms that may be interested in doing either one off, or small production run pieces? I'm looking for possible alternatives to replace or improve upon a present Rube Goldberg metal/rubber intake setup. At a minimum the work would involve 3" tubes plus maybe redoing the air box (the "old" one could be used as a "mold" or guide for a carbon fiber duplicate with a few changes.) Thanks mlp From maximum at weetamoo.com Tue May 7 08:06:42 2002 From: maximum at weetamoo.com (maximum@weetamoo.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Carbon fiber - use, kits & self help resources Message-ID: <20020507070644.3016.h012.c001.wm@mail.weetamoo.com.criticalpath.net> I think you will probably find the following: 1. Functional carbon fiber pieces are expensive. 2. They are expensive not because of the absolute cost of materials, but because it is very, very difficult to fabricate whatever it is you're making. Even a carbon fiber clipboard is expensive... what could be simpler? 3. I could be wrong (again) Royal aka 20RoT "mlp" wrote > > Do the list(s) have any self help pointers, tips, suggestions, resources or > general guides for either (a) "do it yourself" carbon fiber work; or (b) any > suggestions for persons or people or firms that may be interested in doing > either one off, or small production run pieces? > > I'm looking for possible alternatives to replace or improve upon a present > Rube Goldberg metal/rubber intake setup. > > At a minimum the work would involve 3" tubes plus maybe redoing the air box > (the "old" one could be used as a "mold" or guide for a carbon fiber > duplicate with a few changes.) > > Thanks > mlp > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From tectonic1 at mac.com Tue May 7 11:23:01 2002 From: tectonic1 at mac.com (Peter) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: [s-cars] Carbon fiber - use, kits & self help resources In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have a link to a DIY carbon fiber fabrication page but it's buried in my HD and I don't have time to look for it right now. I'll look for it this evening and post it if I can find it. Bottom line was that it was relatively easy and cheap to fabricate but practice is required to become proficient in producing quality end result. Peter Anderson On 5/7/02 9:35 AM, "mlp" wrote: > Do the list(s) have any self help pointers, tips, suggestions, resources or > general guides for either (a) "do it yourself" carbon fiber work; or (b) any > suggestions for persons or people or firms that may be interested in doing > either one off, or small production run pieces? > > I'm looking for possible alternatives to replace or improve upon a present > Rube Goldberg metal/rubber intake setup. > > At a minimum the work would involve 3" tubes plus maybe redoing the air box > (the "old" one could be used as a "mold" or guide for a carbon fiber > duplicate with a few changes.) > > Thanks > mlp > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > S-CAR-List mailing list > S-CAR-List@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list From maximum at weetamoo.com Tue May 7 08:41:35 2002 From: maximum at weetamoo.com (maximum@weetamoo.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Carbon fiber - MODIFICATION Message-ID: <20020507074136.4140.h004.c001.wm@mail.weetamoo.com.criticalpath.net> I said: >>2. They are expensive not because of the absolute cost of materials, but because it is very, very difficult to fabricate whatever it is you're making. Even a carbon fiber clipboard is expensive... what could be simpler? I should have said: >>2. They are expensive not because of the absolute cost of materials, but because it is very, very difficult to fabricate whatever it is you're making WELL Even a carbon fiber clipboard is expensive... what could be simpler? PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT. From b.m.benz at prodigy.net Tue May 7 10:00:47 2002 From: b.m.benz at prodigy.net (Bernie Benz) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Carbon fiber - MODIFICATION In-Reply-To: <20020507074136.4140.h004.c001.wm@mail.weetamoo.com.criticalpath.net> Message-ID: I thought you said Clapboard! > From: maximum@weetamoo.com > Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 07:41:35 -0700 (PDT) > To: maximum@weetamoo.com > Cc: mlped@qwest.net, s-car-list@audifans.com, quattro@audifans.com, > 200q20v@audifans.com > Subject: Re: Carbon fiber - MODIFICATION > > I said: > >>> 2. They are expensive not because of the absolute > cost of materials, but because it is very, very > difficult to fabricate whatever it is you're > making. Even a carbon fiber clipboard is > expensive... what could be simpler? > > I should have said: > >>> 2. They are expensive not because of the absolute > cost of materials, but because it is very, very > difficult to fabricate whatever it is you're > making WELL Even a carbon fiber clipboard is > expensive... what could be simpler? PRACTICE > MAKES PERFECT. > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From James.Murray at ericsson.ca Tue May 7 13:07:12 2002 From: James.Murray at ericsson.ca (James Murray (LMC)) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: [s-cars] Carbon fiber - use, kits & self help resources Message-ID: <32CD630F6CBED411AE180008C7894CBC0CAAD447@lmc37.lmc.ericsson.se> This link might give you more insight, good luck ! http://www.bryanf.com/misc/carbonf.htm http://www.bryanf.com/info/carbon.htm Cheers, /J. -----Original Message----- From: mlp [SMTP:mlped@qwest.net] Sent: May 7, 2002 9:35 AM To: s-car-list@audifans.com; Audi - Lists - AudiFans; 200q20v@audifans.com Subject: [s-cars] Carbon fiber - use, kits & self help resources Do the list(s) have any self help pointers, tips, suggestions, resources or general guides for either (a) "do it yourself" carbon fiber work; or (b) any suggestions for persons or people or firms that may be interested in doing either one off, or small production run pieces? I'm looking for possible alternatives to replace or improve upon a present Rube Goldberg metal/rubber intake setup. At a minimum the work would involve 3" tubes plus maybe redoing the air box (the "old" one could be used as a "mold" or guide for a carbon fiber duplicate with a few changes.) Thanks mlp _______________________________________________ S-CAR-List mailing list S-CAR-List@audifans.com http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list From rbwinchell at yahoo.com Tue May 7 10:18:40 2002 From: rbwinchell at yahoo.com (Rob Winchell) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: output tests using vag-com In-Reply-To: <20020507161055.D0F64474@www.audifans.com> Message-ID: <20020507161840.41065.qmail@web20504.mail.yahoo.com> Dan, You can use VAG-COM with the 2 prong adapter. You connect to the 2 connectors on the left (not the far right one). Block 0 is the only data block supported by the 3B engine. There are 10 values, which are listed in the Bentley. Rob Winchell __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com From thequattroking at yahoo.com Tue May 7 10:18:53 2002 From: thequattroking at yahoo.com (Shayne) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Radiator Repair Kit In-Reply-To: <3CD77D74.8050300@66-169-158-13.ftwrth.tx.charter.com> Message-ID: Modine makes one (complete radiator) in all metal. I bought it for $119.00. I am going to pick it up and install it tomorrow. I will let you all know how it turns out. IMO, hardly worth the nipple repair considering the plastic is 11 YO. I bet the other nipples aren't in great shape either. Shayne P. Currently, Spokane, WA. June, Oakland, CA. Enough Audis to give plenty of headaches. Parting: 1972 Mercedes Benz 280 SE 4.5 > > Bryan Foster wrote: > >> Jeff, >> Just did my radiator yesterday. Part numbers are 200121003 for the epoxy >> and 200121001 for the plastic insert. Cost me $30. Make sure you are >> quick once you mix up the epoxy...It hardens real fast. Also, you don't >> have to drain the entire coolant system to do this. Just suck out the >> coolant in the expansion tank with a turkey baster and then disconnect the >> top radiator hose. From ingo at waratap.com Tue May 7 13:24:02 2002 From: ingo at waratap.com (Ingo D. Rautenberg) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: [s-cars] Carbon fiber - use, kits & self help resources References: <32CD630F6CBED411AE180008C7894CBC0CAAD447@lmc37.lmc.ericsson.se> Message-ID: <010001c1f5e3$99ee5800$9865fea9@ingo> Damn! Beat me to it ;-) Ingo ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Murray (LMC)" To: "'mlp'" ; ; "Audi - Lists - AudiFans" ; <200q20v@audifans.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 12:07 PM Subject: RE: [s-cars] Carbon fiber - use, kits & self help resources > This link might give you more insight, good luck ! > > http://www.bryanf.com/misc/carbonf.htm > > > http://www.bryanf.com/info/carbon.htm > > > Cheers, /J. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002 From Djdawson2 at aol.com Tue May 7 13:28:59 2002 From: Djdawson2 at aol.com (Djdawson2@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Low boost high rpm roll on Message-ID: <157.d88dbc3.2a095acb@aol.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] That would be "...will taper off as rpm inscrease." Glen, Since we're off the subject, and on to grammar... look at it this way. Once the acronym becomes the subject or object of the sentence (in essence, a noun), making it plural requires an "s". I don't believe I've ever heard a sportscaster say anything about a hitter's number of R'sBI. BTW, I don't believe "inscrease" is a word either. And then you said: "I just can't brake the habit!" Oh, and this one... I was curious... were you trying to "slow it down" (your habit), or did you mean that you couldn't "break" the habit? Finally, this is all in fun, I really don't give a ---- either way...! Please, no hurt feelings... just giving you a friendly jab in the ribs. That's my bad habit. Dave From brianl at starsys.com Tue May 7 11:57:21 2002 From: brianl at starsys.com (Brian Link) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Front spring removal Message-ID: <01C1F5B5.F7427D20.brianl@starsys.com> Has anyone changed front springs or know if it is possible to take out the springs without taking out the strut assembly? Take out the strut through the top then compress spring and pull it out? The Bentley shows removal of the strut. tia Brian Link Boulder, CO From panderso at maine.rr.com Tue May 7 14:06:38 2002 From: panderso at maine.rr.com (Peter Anderson) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: [s-cars] Carbon fiber - use, kits & self help resources In-Reply-To: <32CD630F6CBED411AE180008C7894CBC0CAAD447@lmc37.lmc.ericsson.se> Message-ID: About that link buried on my HD... James just saved me some time by finding it for me! Peter Anderson On 05/07/02 12:07 PM, "James Murray (LMC)" wrote: > This link might give you more insight, good luck ! > > http://www.bryanf.com/misc/carbonf.htm > > > http://www.bryanf.com/info/carbon.htm > > > Cheers, /J. > > -----Original Message----- > From: mlp [SMTP:mlped@qwest.net] > Sent: May 7, 2002 9:35 AM > To: s-car-list@audifans.com; Audi - Lists - AudiFans; > 200q20v@audifans.com > Subject: [s-cars] Carbon fiber - use, kits & self help > resources > > Do the list(s) have any self help pointers, tips, suggestions, > resources or > general guides for either (a) "do it yourself" carbon fiber work; or > (b) any > suggestions for persons or people or firms that may be interested in > doing > either one off, or small production run pieces? > > I'm looking for possible alternatives to replace or improve upon a > present > Rube Goldberg metal/rubber intake setup. > > At a minimum the work would involve 3" tubes plus maybe redoing the > air box > (the "old" one could be used as a "mold" or guide for a carbon fiber > duplicate with a few changes.) > > Thanks > mlp > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > S-CAR-List mailing list > S-CAR-List@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list > _______________________________________________ > S-CAR-List mailing list > S-CAR-List@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list From thequattroking at yahoo.com Tue May 7 11:11:43 2002 From: thequattroking at yahoo.com (Shayne) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Front spring removal In-Reply-To: <01C1F5B5.F7427D20.brianl@starsys.com> Message-ID: You must remove the strut assembly. Shayne P. Currently, Spokane, WA. June, Oakland, CA. Enough Audis to give plenty of headaches. Parting: 1972 Mercedes Benz 280 SE 4.5 > > Has anyone changed front springs or know if it is possible to take out the > springs without taking out the strut assembly? Take out the strut through > the top then compress spring and pull it out? The Bentley shows removal of > the strut. From peschulz at cisco.com Tue May 7 14:36:03 2002 From: peschulz at cisco.com (Peter Schulz) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Front spring removal In-Reply-To: <01C1F5B5.F7427D20.brianl@starsys.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020507133319.0377a498@millcity.cisco.com> At 10:57 AM 5/7/2002 -0600, Brian Link wrote: >Has anyone changed front springs or know if it is possible to take out the >springs without taking out the strut assembly? Take out the strut through >the top then compress spring and pull it out? The Bentley shows removal of >the strut. > >tia > >Brian Link >Boulder, CO >_______________________________________________ >200q20v mailing list >200q20v@audifans.com >http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v Brian: Using the shop tool or a pipe wrench, the strut cap is removed and the strut cartridge is removed from the top. The lower part of the strut assembly including the wheel hub stays connected to the lower control arm. R&R of the springs requires the removal of the strut assembly from the car and can not be done from the top. HTH -peter Peter Schulz 1990 CQ 1991 200 20v TQW indigo mica 1991 200 20v TQW titanium grey Chelmsford, MA USA peschulz@cisco.com From pjrose at frontiernet.net Tue May 7 14:53:03 2002 From: pjrose at frontiernet.net (Phil Rose) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Radiator Repair Kit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 9:18 AM -0700 5/7/02, Shayne wrote: >Modine makes one (complete radiator) in all metal. I bought it for $119.00. >I am going to pick it up and install it tomorrow. I will let you all know >how it turns out. IMO, hardly worth the nipple repair considering the >plastic is 11 YO. I bet the other nipples aren't in great shape either. But first you will need to modify it (add nipples for aux. rad.), right? Phil -- Phil Rose Rochester, NY USA '91 200q (130 Kmiles, Lago blue) '91 200q (57 Kmiles, Tornado red) mailto:pjrose@frontiernet.net From Djdawson2 at aol.com Tue May 7 14:58:42 2002 From: Djdawson2 at aol.com (Djdawson2@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Front spring removal Message-ID: <19b.1e85102.2a096fd2@aol.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Brian, I hate to start a debate... but. I just bought my 200 20v about a month ago... I took my front springs out without removal of the assembly using bolt style spring compressors. However, I probably wouldn't bother doing it again. I also did it once in an 89 200tq to replace the upper strut bearings. It can be done. HTH, Dave From Jeff.Bernstein at pneumaticscale.com Tue May 7 15:03:53 2002 From: Jeff.Bernstein at pneumaticscale.com (Jeff.Bernstein@pneumaticscale.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: FW: Radiator Repair Kit Message-ID: Shayne, Don't you still have to braze the lower radiator connector nipples to this radiator? You did get a great price though so let me know how it works out as far as modifying and installation issues. Thanks, Jeff Bernstein -----Original Message----- From: Shayne [mailto:thequattroking@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 12:19 PM To: Rich Andrews; Bryan Foster Cc: 200q20v@audifans.com; Jeff.Bernstein@pneumaticscale.com Subject: Re: Radiator Repair Kit Modine makes one (complete radiator) in all metal. I bought it for $119.00. I am going to pick it up and install it tomorrow. I will let you all know how it turns out. IMO, hardly worth the nipple repair considering the plastic is 11 YO. I bet the other nipples aren't in great shape either. Shayne P. Currently, Spokane, WA. June, Oakland, CA. Enough Audis to give plenty of headaches. Parting: 1972 Mercedes Benz 280 SE 4.5 > > Bryan Foster wrote: > >> Jeff, >> Just did my radiator yesterday. Part numbers are 200121003 for the epoxy >> and 200121001 for the plastic insert. Cost me $30. Make sure you are >> quick once you mix up the epoxy...It hardens real fast. Also, you don't >> have to drain the entire coolant system to do this. Just suck out the >> coolant in the expansion tank with a turkey baster and then disconnect the >> top radiator hose. From peschulz at cisco.com Tue May 7 15:21:45 2002 From: peschulz at cisco.com (Peter Schulz) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Front spring removal In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020507133319.0377a498@millcity.cisco.com> References: <01C1F5B5.F7427D20.brianl@starsys.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020507141243.03742260@millcity.cisco.com> I just found an older post on the s-car list from Igor Kessel: "4. In order to remove the front springs you NEED to hang both wheels out in the air as not to fight the torsional resistance of the stabilizer bar. In my case even this measure was not enough. I was alone in the garage, in a desperate need of an extra pair of hands and was looking for a way to press the half axle down to the subframe while I would be removing the compressed spring from under the front fender. I came up with a simple one man solution. I took the OEM Audi screw jack (yeah, the suicidal one with which your car came from the factory :-), shoved it in-between the half axle and the upper body longitudinal member and easily lowered the strut until the half axle hit the subframe. After which I was able to remove the spring with ease. To be continued..." just be careful with the compressed spring! -Peter At 01:36 PM 5/7/2002 -0400, Peter Schulz wrote: >At 10:57 AM 5/7/2002 -0600, Brian Link wrote: >>Has anyone changed front springs or know if it is possible to take out the >>springs without taking out the strut assembly? Take out the strut through >>the top then compress spring and pull it out? The Bentley shows removal of >>the strut. >> >>tia >> >>Brian Link >>Boulder, CO >>_______________________________________________ >>200q20v mailing list >>200q20v@audifans.com >>http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v > >Brian: > >Using the shop tool or a pipe wrench, the strut cap is removed and the >strut cartridge is removed from the top. The lower part of the strut >assembly including the wheel hub stays connected to the lower control arm. > >R&R of the springs requires the removal of the strut assembly from the car >and can not be done from the top. > >HTH > >-peter > >Peter Schulz >1990 CQ >1991 200 20v TQW indigo mica >1991 200 20v TQW titanium grey >Chelmsford, MA USA >peschulz@cisco.com > >_______________________________________________ >200q20v mailing list >200q20v@audifans.com >http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From tfrank at symyx.com Tue May 7 12:35:32 2002 From: tfrank at symyx.com (Trevor Frank) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: [s-cars] Carbon fiber - use, kits & self help resources Message-ID: <434B90BC7B0F2C45945D653A6B4C5F39A56DCC@XENA2000.symyx.com> Sounds like you need to start from scratch. West Systems has a good book on vacuum forming. Burt Rutan has a good book on general fabrication techniques without using forms. For about 50 bucks you can get a starter kit that includes all you need to work on proper technique and the Rutan book, of Long-EZ and Voyager fame. If you are doing it yourself the cost of the fabric may be in the noise, $15-50 a yard as apposed to 3-8, depending on the cost of your time. If you like the look of carbon, then use it, although Kevlar may be more durable or a carbon Kevlar blend. Neither of the books covers the specifics of carbon or Kevlar. Neither goes into selection of fabrics and resin's that much either, both entire can very the properties of the final structure greatly. There are several books available from Aircraft Spruce on this subject. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/main.html Aircraft spruce finally came out with a motor sports specific catalogue. http://www.wicksaircraft.com/ Wicks if often a little cheaper, especially on the shipping. -----Original Message----- From: mlp [mailto:mlped@qwest.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 6:35 AM To: s-car-list@audifans.com; Audi - Lists - AudiFans; 200q20v@audifans.com Subject: [s-cars] Carbon fiber - use, kits & self help resources Do the list(s) have any self help pointers, tips, suggestions, resources or general guides for either (a) "do it yourself" carbon fiber work; or (b) any suggestions for persons or people or firms that may be interested in doing either one off, or small production run pieces? I'm looking for possible alternatives to replace or improve upon a present Rube Goldberg metal/rubber intake setup. At a minimum the work would involve 3" tubes plus maybe redoing the air box (the "old" one could be used as a "mold" or guide for a carbon fiber duplicate with a few changes.) Thanks mlp _______________________________________________ S-CAR-List mailing list S-CAR-List@audifans.com http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list From bimmer_dude at hotmail.com Tue May 7 19:51:38 2002 From: bimmer_dude at hotmail.com (Jobe Tichy) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Swith Light Part Number Message-ID: [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] Does anyone have the part number (or some other way to determine how to get this) for the little 30mA bulbs that light up the switches? I am trying to get the correct bulb for the "ABS OFF" switch and the dealer, of course, is trying to pawn a new switch on me instead of helping me find the correct bu= lb. They substituted me the bulb that is for the ash tray, which works fine, but is too bright and the switch gets way too hot. I think it is a 60mA. Also= , I found at the local auto parts store the same bulb, but is a 2.2 watt. I do= n't know if that is correct, it seems too bight as well. What WATTAGE bulb wou= ld be a reasonable replacement of the 30mA bulb? Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. This has turned out to be too big of a hassle to chan= ge a 99cent bulb! Thanks JOBE '91 200tq 20v '84 BMW 318i (modified) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- Join the world=92s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. Click Here[1] =3D=3D=3DReferences:=3D=3D=3D 1. http://g.msn.com/1HM105401/47 From pjrose at frontiernet.net Tue May 7 16:07:56 2002 From: pjrose at frontiernet.net (Phil Rose) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Swith Light Part Number In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 6:51 PM +0000 5/7/02, Jobe Tichy wrote: >[ Converted text/html to text/plain ] > >Does anyone have the part number (or some other way to determine how to get >this) for the little 30mA bulbs that light up the switches? I am trying to >get the correct bulb for the "ABS OFF" switch and the dealer, of course, is >trying to pawn a new switch on me instead of helping me find the correct bulb. >They substituted me the bulb that is for the ash tray, which works fine, but >is too bright and the switch gets way too hot. I think it is a 60mA. Also, I >found at the local auto parts store the same bulb, but is a 2.2 watt. I don't >know if that is correct, it seems too bight as well. What WATTAGE bulb would >be a reasonable replacement of the 30mA bulb? Any help on this would be >greatly appreciated. This has turned out to be too big of a hassle to change >a 99cent bulb! Well Jobe, 30 mA is about 0.4 watt at 12 volts, isn't it????? Phil -- Phil Rose Rochester, NY USA '91 200q (130 Kmiles, Lago blue) '91 200q (57 Kmiles, Tornado red) mailto:pjrose@frontiernet.net From brett at cloud9.net Tue May 7 17:19:20 2002 From: brett at cloud9.net (Brett Dikeman) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Front spring removal In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020507141243.03742260@millcity.cisco.com> References: <01C1F5B5.F7427D20.brianl@starsys.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20020507141243.03742260@millcity.cisco.com> Message-ID: At 2:21 PM -0400 5/7/02, Peter Schulz wrote: >just be careful with the compressed spring! I remember Phil Payne posting about a fellow who removed the top castle nut without using a spring compressor, thinking "car's on the lift, it'll be fine." I believe he said post-commotion, the hood had a -very- large dent, they found the castle nut embedded in the wall, and they never found the wrench. Brett -- ---- "They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin http://www.users.cloud9.net/~brett/ From bimmer_dude at hotmail.com Tue May 7 21:22:24 2002 From: bimmer_dude at hotmail.com (Jobe Tichy) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Swith Light Part Number Message-ID: [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] > >Well Jobe, 30 mA is about 0.4 watt at 12 volts, isn't it????? > I guess it is???? I have to say, the bounds of my electrical knowledge are limited to soldering burned out audi bulbs and jockying stereos installs. Other than that, I go by the seat of my pants. Thanks for the deductive reasoning:) Now, maybe I can figure more of this stuff out. JOBE--non engineer '91 200tq 20v '84 BMW 318i (modified) >From: Phil Rose >To: "Jobe Tichy" >CC: 200q20v@audifans.com >Subject: Re: Swith Light Part Number >Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 15:07:56 -0400 > >At 6:51 PM +0000 5/7/02, Jobe Tichy wrote: >>[ Converted text/html to text/plain ] >> >>Does anyone have the part number (or some other way to determine >>how to get >>this) for the little 30mA bulbs that light up the switches? I am >>trying to >>get the correct bulb for the "ABS OFF" switch and the dealer, of >>course, is >>trying to pawn a new switch on me instead of helping me find the >>correct bulb. >>They substituted me the bulb that is for the ash tray, which works >>fine, but >>is too bright and the switch gets way too hot. I think it is a >>60mA. Also, I >>found at the local auto parts store the same bulb, but is a 2.2 >>watt. I don't >>know if that is correct, it seems too bight as well. What WATTAGE >>bulb would >>be a reasonable replacement of the 30mA bulb? Any help on this >>would be >>greatly appreciated. This has turned out to be too big of a hassle >>to change >>a 99cent bulb! > >Well Jobe, 30 mA is about 0.4 watt at 12 volts, isn't it????? > >Phil >-- > >Phil Rose Rochester, NY USA >'91 200q (130 Kmiles, Lago blue) >'91 200q (57 Kmiles, Tornado red) > mailto:pjrose@frontiernet.net > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here[1] ===References:=== 1. http://g.msn.com/1HM105401/46 From Djdawson2 at aol.com Tue May 7 19:54:39 2002 From: Djdawson2 at aol.com (Djdawson2@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Front spring removal Message-ID: <109.12156d32.2a09b52f@aol.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I suppose if you're silly enough to remove the castle nut with no load against the spring... you should at least be penalized the cost of one wrench. If you, 1) loosen (but do not remove) the strut cartridge collar 2) lift the car 3) place stands under the control arms 4) lower the car onto the stands (springs are now loaded) 5) remove the wheels 6) install the small bolt style spring compressors on the spring 7) compress the spring 8) remove the upper strut mount 9) remove the strut collar completely, and the strut cartridge 10) slowly raise the car At that point, you will find that there is sufficient room to remove the spring. It does work. You must use some common sense, because you ARE dealing with a great deal of stored energy. HTH, Dave From QSHIPQ at aol.com Tue May 7 20:42:18 2002 From: QSHIPQ at aol.com (QSHIPQ@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: output tests using vag-com Message-ID: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] To be more specific, the early motronic found in the 91 200 is not supported by aftermarket 1552 in terms of output test procedures. You should get a "this function not supported" message, dan. You can get stored fault codes, but you cannot do output tests with most of these tools. HTH Scott Justusson In a message dated 5/7/02 11:29:08 AM Central Daylight Time, rbwinchell@yahoo.com writes: Dan, You can use VAG-COM with the 2 prong adapter. You connect to the 2 connectors on the left (not the far right one). Block 0 is the only data block supported by the 3B engine. There are 10 values, which are listed in the Bentley. Rob Winchell From MartinGG at aetna.com Tue May 7 20:48:11 2002 From: MartinGG at aetna.com (Martin, Gary G) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Swith Light Part Number Message-ID: <190DB1C7C8ADD51188890002A53F528E4408DA@midp-exch-001.aetna.com> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. -- Try parts express http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?DID=7&WebPage_ID=3&Start=2&ObjectGro up_ID=288&so=2 They have all kinds of little indicator bulbs and also little red covers for the clear bulbs. I used them with good results on my S4 and 200. Gary 94 UrS4 91 200 TQA -----Original Message----- From: Jobe Tichy [mailto:bimmer_dude@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 4:22 PM To: pjrose@frontiernet.net Cc: 200q20v@audifans.com Subject: Re: Swith Light Part Number [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] > >Well Jobe, 30 mA is about 0.4 watt at 12 volts, isn't it????? > I guess it is???? I have to say, the bounds of my electrical knowledge are limited to soldering burned out audi bulbs and jockying stereos installs. Other than that, I go by the seat of my pants. Thanks for the deductive reasoning:) Now, maybe I can figure more of this stuff out. JOBE--non engineer '91 200tq 20v '84 BMW 318i (modified) >From: Phil Rose >To: "Jobe Tichy" >CC: 200q20v@audifans.com >Subject: Re: Swith Light Part Number >Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 15:07:56 -0400 > >At 6:51 PM +0000 5/7/02, Jobe Tichy wrote: >>[ Converted text/html to text/plain ] >> >>Does anyone have the part number (or some other way to determine >>how to get >>this) for the little 30mA bulbs that light up the switches? I am >>trying to >>get the correct bulb for the "ABS OFF" switch and the dealer, of >>course, is >>trying to pawn a new switch on me instead of helping me find the >>correct bulb. >>They substituted me the bulb that is for the ash tray, which works >>fine, but >>is too bright and the switch gets way too hot. I think it is a >>60mA. Also, I >>found at the local auto parts store the same bulb, but is a 2.2 >>watt. I don't >>know if that is correct, it seems too bight as well. What WATTAGE >>bulb would >>be a reasonable replacement of the 30mA bulb? Any help on this >>would be >>greatly appreciated. This has turned out to be too big of a hassle >>to change >>a 99cent bulb! > >Well Jobe, 30 mA is about 0.4 watt at 12 volts, isn't it????? > >Phil >-- > >Phil Rose Rochester, NY USA >'91 200q (130 Kmiles, Lago blue) >'91 200q (57 Kmiles, Tornado red) > mailto:pjrose@frontiernet.net > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here[1] ===References:=== 1. http://g.msn.com/1HM105401/46 _______________________________________________ 200q20v mailing list 200q20v@audifans.com http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v This e-mail, including attachments, is intended for the exclusive use of the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential or privileged information. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or his or her authorized agent, the reader is hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is prohibited. If you think that you have received this e-mail in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail of the error and then delete this e-mail immediately. Thank you. -- [ Content of type application/ms-tnef deleted ] From dans at audifans.com Tue May 7 21:02:26 2002 From: dans at audifans.com (Dan Simoes) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: output tests using vag-com References: Message-ID: <3CD86B12.46CF5092@audifans.com> I got this reply from Ross-Tech. Has anyone tested it on the 200? Dan, VAG-COM can perform output tests on vehicle that support them. See this page: http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/tour/out_test.html Regards, Andy QSHIPQ@aol.com wrote: > > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > To be more specific, the early motronic found in the 91 200 is not supported > by aftermarket 1552 in terms of output test procedures. You should get a > "this function not supported" message, dan. You can get stored fault codes, > but you cannot do output tests with most of these tools. > > HTH > > Scott Justusson > In a message dated 5/7/02 11:29:08 AM Central Daylight Time, > rbwinchell@yahoo.com writes: > > Dan, > > You can use VAG-COM with the 2 prong adapter. You > connect to the 2 connectors on the left (not the far > right one). > > Block 0 is the only data block supported by the 3B > engine. There are 10 values, which are listed in the > Bentley. > > Rob Winchell > > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From brett at cloud9.net Tue May 7 21:27:33 2002 From: brett at cloud9.net (Brett Dikeman) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: output tests using vag-com In-Reply-To: <3CD86B12.46CF5092@audifans.com> References: <3CD86B12.46CF5092@audifans.com> Message-ID: At 8:02 PM -0400 5/7/02, Dan Simoes wrote: >I got this reply from Ross-Tech. Has anyone tested it on the 200? Yup, worked just fine when I tried it... Brett -- ---- "They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin http://www.users.cloud9.net/~brett/ From brett at cloud9.net Tue May 7 21:30:48 2002 From: brett at cloud9.net (Brett Dikeman) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: output tests using vag-com Message-ID: At 8:02 PM -0400 5/7/02, Dan Simoes wrote: >I got this reply from Ross-Tech. Has anyone tested it on the 200? Hmm, looking over Scott's comments earlier in the thread, I could be mistaken. I know I've run the output tests on the car, and I could have -sworn- I did it with the VAG-COM, with the laptop sitting on top of the engine as I clicked the "next test" button and listening for each sensor... B -- ---- "They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin http://www.users.cloud9.net/~brett/ From QSHIPQ at aol.com Tue May 7 23:02:48 2002 From: QSHIPQ at aol.com (QSHIPQ@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Front spring removal Message-ID: <130.df040e1.2a09e148@aol.com> That doesn't apply to the 44 chassis cars Brett. You can easily and safely remove the top nut on any 44 chassis car without using a spring compressor, in fact that's how you service the strut with spring in place. The 90/80/4k/urq might be a different story. I say "might" cuz it really depends on the spring installed. Stock 99inWB stock springed cars can remove the castle nut, you just need to push down hard on the upper spring perch while removing (since it's 200some lbs of force to move that inch, it's not the recommended procedure, the family jewels are in jeapardy). Over the years, I've tried many tricks for removing springs on McP strut cars without removing the strut. It *can* be done, several ways, none of which really save you a lot of time in the long run (well, I did do the Deltec trick once with great success). There is a lot of energy in a spring. Certainly enough in the 90 series cars to shoot a/your castle nut with extreme prejudice. Since the early days of nut-firing, I've acquired both the clamshell spring compressor and the wall mounted wheel type, which really makes "on car" procedures less attractive. That said, there are many ways that this can be done on a 91 200, few of them as safe or ultimately as quick as just taking the strut out. I bow to all that have tried, it's not easy nor pretty, nor recommended. Certainly doable. Scott Justusson In a message dated 5/7/02 3:22:00 PM Central Daylight Time, brett@cloud9.net writes: I remember Phil Payne posting about a fellow who removed the top castle nut without using a spring compressor, thinking "car's on the lift, it'll be fine." I believe he said post-commotion, the hood had a -very- large dent, they found the castle nut embedded in the wall, and they never found the wrench. Brett -- From b.m.benz at prodigy.net Tue May 7 20:43:51 2002 From: b.m.benz at prodigy.net (Bernie Benz) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Front spring removal In-Reply-To: <130.df040e1.2a09e148@aol.com> Message-ID: HERE HEAR, Scott! I strongly second your point. Do it right the first time, play it safe and fix the related stuff while in there, strut top bearings, wheel bearings, ect. Bernie > From: QSHIPQ@aol.com > Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 22:02:48 EDT > To: brett@cloud9.net, peschulz@cisco.com, Djdawson2@aol.com > Cc: brianl@starsys.com, 200q20v@audifans.com > Subject: Re: Front spring removal > > That doesn't apply to the 44 chassis cars Brett. You can easily and safely > remove the top nut on any 44 chassis car without using a spring compressor, > in fact that's how you service the strut with spring in place. The > 90/80/4k/urq might be a different story. I say "might" cuz it really depends > on the spring installed. Stock 99inWB stock springed cars can remove the > castle nut, you just need to push down hard on the upper spring perch while > removing (since it's 200some lbs of force to move that inch, it's not the > recommended procedure, the family jewels are in jeapardy). > > Over the years, I've tried many tricks for removing springs on McP strut cars > without removing the strut. It *can* be done, several ways, none of which > really save you a lot of time in the long run (well, I did do the Deltec > trick once with great success). There is a lot of energy in a spring. > Certainly enough in the 90 series cars to shoot a/your castle nut with > extreme prejudice. Since the early days of nut-firing, I've acquired both > the clamshell spring compressor and the wall mounted wheel type, which really > makes "on car" procedures less attractive. > > That said, there are many ways that this can be done on a 91 200, few of them > as safe or ultimately as quick as just taking the strut out. I bow to all > that have tried, it's not easy nor pretty, nor recommended. Certainly > doable. > > Scott Justusson > In a message dated 5/7/02 3:22:00 PM Central Daylight Time, brett@cloud9.net > writes: > > > I remember Phil Payne posting about a fellow who removed the top > castle nut without using a spring compressor, thinking "car's on the > lift, it'll be fine." I believe he said post-commotion, the hood had > a -very- large dent, they found the castle nut embedded in the wall, > and they never found the wrench. > > Brett > -- > > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From smuckycat at hotmail.com Wed May 8 12:55:17 2002 From: smuckycat at hotmail.com (Joshua C) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: re carbon fiber Message-ID: While right now I don't have time to fool with carbon fiber, I would be interested in seeing the results, if possible please post them and give us a link when you have some bits made up. also if you have the means it would be interesting to see how much if at all the intake temperature is affected by the new intake setup. I took out the stock air box and removed the front plate (it snaps off with a screwdriver and some persistence) It makes a neat sound under heavy acceleration. I didn't conduct any pre-post mod tests to see if it was beneficial, although I don't imagine it hurt. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From Djdawson2 at aol.com Wed May 8 12:55:30 2002 From: Djdawson2 at aol.com (Djdawson2@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Front spring removal Message-ID: <94.26069c06.2a0aa472@aol.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I too, agree with Scott's and Bernie's point. Like I said, I have done it (twice), and it can be done... however, when I look back it seems it would be just as easy to pull the strut and be done with it. It is a tight fit for even bolt type spring compressors, and if you happen to have ones that are very long, it simply won't work. Scott's statement about removing the top nut on any type 44 car (and the design of the upper strut mount) sure does make them a pleasure to change strut cartridges on... but do make sure the spring is loaded. Have the car either resting on its wheels, or supported by stands that are under the control arms. If you don't, you will have a significant release of spring energy when that nut comes off (it really doesn't have any place to go, however)... not to mention the strut housing will be more or less free to go "wherever", since the strut cartridge is what holds the whole thing in alignment with the upper strut mount. HTH, Dave From sidman at montereynet.net Wed May 8 11:07:25 2002 From: sidman at montereynet.net (George Sidman) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Air Box Removal References: <20020508161105.5AE564CE@www.audifans.com> Message-ID: <3CD95B4D.52D1B2AE@montereynet.net> I need to remove the air box to replace the heater core and Bentley says the center console has to be removed as a part of the procedure. Is this really required? To undo duct fasteners, etc.????? I still have not been able to find a detailed description of this repair, so if anyone has any sage advice it would be most appreciated. -- George Sidman, President Monterey Network Center sidman@montereynet.net 831. 657. 1500 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Wed May 8 14:46:21 2002 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: air box removal Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB0C143291@hrm06.house.gov> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] George, I did this job a couple of years back. As I posted as a comment on Chris Millers' great pages http://members.aol.com/c1j1miller/main.html : The Bentley has -on page 87.18, what appears to be detailed instructions on removing the heater box. What stopped my was when I came to the line "Remove all retainers between the body and heater." What does that mean? Why did I take out the center console. What to do now? 1) Look at the picture on 87.22. From the interior, remove the two footwell air outlets (two screws each). After disconnecting any vacuum lines that might be clamped to them, remove the two large elbows on either side of the vacuum servos- they pull down, and a little out. No screws involved. Remove the corrogated rubber duct connection that is up closer to the firewall. I did not need to remove any other ducting. 2) Look at the picture on 87.28. Disconnect the three vacuum lines -yellow, blue and green- from the vacuum servos. Disconnect the red, black and white lines at the joints located right next to the vacuum servos. (No need to remove the two vacuum servos) 3) Back on top in the engine compartment, disconnect the red, black and white vacuum lines located on the passenger side of the heater box . Disconnected top and bottom, a section of these three lines will come out with the heaterbox. Notice the metal A/C line running left to right in front of the airbox. Cut any cable clamps from it and move flexible wires and lines out of the way. There is very little clearance between the A/C line and the heater box as you later pull, push and rotate the box out. 4) Use a narrow (like 1") thin bladed, flexible putty knife to break the seal between the box and the firewall where you have access ( primarily at the top of the box, and the drivers side. Next, carefully use a thick bladed, ridgid 1" putty kniffe to begin to pry the box away from the firewall. Follow up with a big flat bladed screwdriver. At this point, I had about an inch of motion on the upper drivers side of the box. Push the bellows A/C duct connector on the passenger side into the heaterbox, I taped it back so it would not interfer. Keep working it. I spent a lot of time laying on top of the engine, arms reaching around both sides of the box, gradually pulling. Slowly, the adhesives would release. Finally, the box was loose all around. (Next you need a helper. Word to the wise: if your helper has a strong emotional attachment to the car and has not been following your progress, warn him or her about what they are about to see. Its not a pretty picture. Your helper will look at the mess in the interior and not realize that you labled all the wires and switches with masking tape, tucked the screws and bolts into labled baggies, and of course have the Bentley, Chris' pages, and all your buddies on the list to help figure out how to put it back together. My wife is convinced I have managed to turn our car into junk that would have to be towed away.) 5) Have the helper push from the interior, more or less on the vacuum servos. The need to be pushing up and forward- at about a 45 degree angle. Meanwhile, assume a position laying on top of the engine, hands grasping either side of the airbox. pull back and up, favoring the passenger side. When you have clearance, remove the black bellows connection to the A/C unit, and push the airbox back down a bit. Then start pulling up favoring the drivers side, until the box clears the metal A/C line. Now a big push from below while you lift and rotate the top of the airbox back a little. Disassembly of the heater box is not tricky, but I had to go buy something like a long 14" blade Phillips to get to one of the screw holding it all together. Take lots of pictures and make sure you see what is going on with the various servos etc. Assembly is tricky because you have to get the various flaps in the right place. I had one side of the box on the workbench, inserted all the flaps and parts, and then glued some fishingline to the top end of the flaps, and threaded the line through the appropriate holes in the upper half of the box, so that I could slide the top half onto the bottom and get all the flaps into the right place. The last two sentences will make no sense to you at all until you have the box apart. :-). Good luck, once into it feel free to email me directly for advice. Tom F. From mlped at qwest.net Wed May 8 13:21:08 2002 From: mlped at qwest.net (mlp) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: [s-cars] Carbon fiber - use, kits & self help resources In-Reply-To: <32CD630F6CBED411AE180008C7894CBC0CAAD447@lmc37.lmc.ericsson.se> Message-ID: Thanks to all for the Carbon fiber &/or kevlar etc. suggestions, information and responses. I'll look into the Spruce Aircraft "training sample." In the mean time, a semi-local professional fabricator is also going to be asked to look at the project too. mlp From peschulz at cisco.com Wed May 8 15:46:26 2002 From: peschulz at cisco.com (Peter Schulz) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Air Box Removal In-Reply-To: <3CD95B4D.52D1B2AE@montereynet.net> References: <20020508161105.5AE564CE@www.audifans.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020508144535.016ed800@millcity.cisco.com> At 10:07 AM 5/8/2002 -0700, you wrote: >I need to remove the air box to replace the heater core and Bentley >says the center console has to be removed as a part of the procedure. >Is this really required? To undo duct fasteners, etc.????? > >I still have not been able to find a detailed description of this >repair, so if anyone has any sage advice it would be most appreciated. >-- >George Sidman, President >Monterey Network Center >sidman@montereynet.net >831. 657. 1500 >_______________________________________________ >200q20v mailing list >200q20v@audifans.com >http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v George: Rob Winchell did it a while ago - perhaps he can help? -Peter Subject: Re: [200q20v] Help! Heater Box Removal Question To: Calliope , 200q20v@audifans.com There are no screws holding the box to the body. The only thing holding it in is the metal strap across the top and the seal around the edge. Rob Winchell 200q20v --- Calliope wrote: > I've followed along on the Bentley, removed all > wires, hoses and straps, > the center console, and the drivers side knee bar. > When you are at the > end of the procedure, the Bentley says something > vague like "remove all > mechanical connections between the body and the > heater box". > > Problem is, I don't see any. I presume I'm looking > from the interior - > why else would I have removed the center console, > but also I see > absolutely nothing on the perimeter of the box from > the top/engine side. > > Do I have to remove ducts to see the screws or > whatever? Which ones? How > about the vacuum servo motors, do they have to be > disconnected from the > box? About how many screw/bolts are there. . None of > this is mentioned > in the Bentley. > > Meanwhile, I'm gainfully employed soldering new > bulbs into my dash > switches... > > Thanks > > Tom F. > > Peter Schulz 1990 CQ 1991 200 20v TQW indigo mica 1991 200 20v TQW titanium grey Chelmsford, MA USA peschulz@cisco.com From dans at audifans.com Wed May 8 16:02:41 2002 From: dans at audifans.com (Dan Simoes) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: cheap 4 wire O2 sensors Message-ID: <3CD97651.8FB0D8F8@audifans.com> How cheap? Try $20.60. Where? At your local VW dealer. For some reason, VW has drastically reduced prices on certain parts, and this is one of them. This is about 1/2 the cost of the usual "universal" 3 wire sensor that many of us use, and I'm told the 4 wire will work just as well. From MartinGG at aetna.com Wed May 8 20:35:14 2002 From: MartinGG at aetna.com (Martin, Gary G) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Handbrake Cable replacement Message-ID: <190DB1C7C8ADD51188890002A53F528E4408DB@midp-exch-001.aetna.com> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. -- Having recently replaced the RR handbrake cables on my S4 and 200TQA, I thought I'd pass on a few tips to those who are contemplating this fun job. First, if your car is near 100k miles, this needs to be done, IMO. A lot of the RR caliper not releasing problems can be related to this culprit. The cable casing on both mine were broken. The S4 at 150K miles should have been replaced long, long ago! Anyway, a couple of hopefully helpful tips. 1) Disconnect the drive shaft at the rear flange. This will allow a bit more room to disconnect/reconnect the cable. (there is a gasket in this flange that may fall out). 2) There is a clip that holds the forward end of the cable to a housing on the body. This will be your biggest challenge. It will be well rusted. Get a new one from a dealer, to give you an idea of how to go about pulling it out. Cable can be obtained from among others http://www.bimmerparts.com/ for about $20, versus $60+ dealer price. HTH Gary 94 UrS4 91 200 TQA This e-mail, including attachments, is intended for the exclusive use of the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential or privileged information. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or his or her authorized agent, the reader is hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is prohibited. If you think that you have received this e-mail in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail of the error and then delete this e-mail immediately. Thank you. -- [ Content of type application/ms-tnef deleted ] From rguzz at mindspring.com Wed May 8 21:16:53 2002 From: rguzz at mindspring.com (RGuzz) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Bosch oil filters Message-ID: <105F2850-62E2-11D6-B779-0050E4169815@mindspring.com> Not to start another oil filter debate but i see these filters, ie the black Bosch, around now in most garden variety parts places. Should i assume it's as good as a Mahle or Mann? Basically, i rarely stray from one or the other of these filters for reasons that have been much discussed. But the Bosch are plentiful, and cheaper. Insights? Rich From thequattroking at yahoo.com Wed May 8 18:29:12 2002 From: thequattroking at yahoo.com (Shayne) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Bosch oil filters In-Reply-To: <105F2850-62E2-11D6-B779-0050E4169815@mindspring.com> Message-ID: I have no comparative experience for that filter specifically, but I have been told that the Bosch is a made for the US market filter. A friend of mine who used to work at the dealer told me this. He said the quality does not compare with the European Bosch filters. Shayne P. Currently, Spokane, WA. June, Oakland, CA. Enough Audis to give plenty of headaches. Parting: 1972 Mercedes Benz 280 SE 4.5 > Not to start another oil filter debate but i see these filters, ie the > black Bosch, around now in most garden variety parts places. Should i > assume it's as good as a Mahle or Mann? Basically, i rarely stray from > one or the other of these filters for reasons that have been much > discussed. But the Bosch are plentiful, and cheaper. Insights? From maximum at weetamoo.com Wed May 8 20:42:38 2002 From: maximum at weetamoo.com (maximum@weetamoo.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Air Box Removal Message-ID: <20020508194238.5283.h006.c001.wm@mail.weetamoo.com.criticalpath.net> > There are no screws holding the box to the body. The > only thing holding it in is the metal strap across the > top and the seal around the edge. > > Rob Winchell That seal around the edge is a be-otch. Strong steady pressure and it will start to peeeeeeeel away. On a related note, I found a small piece of the heater fan housing in my back yard today. There was still on the ground when I threw the white inner housing about 70 feet across the yard in a fit of mindless rage when I finally pulled it out. It ain't no Frisbee but those things can really fly when your adrenalin's pumpin'. I should go see the boys at Wham-O. First the Hula Hoop, then the Frisbee, the Hippity Hop, and now the rage of the 21st Century: THE FLYING FAN HOUSING* ... only $159.95 at your local Audi Dealer *beer sold separately Royal aka 20RoT From fundsaloracing at yahoo.com Thu May 9 04:25:11 2002 From: fundsaloracing at yahoo.com (Fundsalo Racing) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: [urq] Re: 10 vT EM? - high-flow MAF meters? In-Reply-To: <1b8.3d600c.2a014146@aol.com> Message-ID: <20020509102511.96201.qmail@web13602.mail.yahoo.com> Would it be of interest to anyone if I could source a high-flow MAF meter? Also applicable to 3B and AAN vehciles. Please respond ONLY to: glen@northerneuropeanautomotive.com Thanks! -glen OOOO --- QSHIPQ@aol.com wrote: > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > In a message dated 4/30/02 4:36:40 PM Central > Daylight Time, jiipm@sci.fi > writes: > > > >But IŽm answering only for my one, because J does > not > >actually have a collector, but 5 runners joined and > mine > >has a "long" tube where they join...Just for > velocity... > > That makes little sense to me. The way > collector/nozzle theory works, is you > have a ratio of runner diameter to throat diameter. > Without purposely > picking a ratio you could actually create more > reversion than velocity. Did > you use any math in your design. What target did > you go after? > > >Please, I would like to disagree and ask: > > > >1: What is big K-24 cold side? > > hot side wheel stays the same size. IMS there are a > couple choices for the > cold side wheel and housing. Commonly referred to > as the "k24 sport", the > cold side wheel is of a different design and the > scroll is slightly larger as > well. This "upgrade" puts more cfm on the turbo map > for a given PR. > > >2. You say: not a big difference btw RS-2 and K-24 > hot side? > > > >RS2 has 55 mm turbine dia at exducer and K-24 46 > mm, IMHO > >it is a big difference. ( 45 mm is for 200-250 HP > and 55 for > >250-350 HP ) . IMO K-24 cold side is good for some > 300 HP ) > > You create more backpressure as you increase > effective compression ratio or > volumetric efficiency of the motor. At 2.1 liters > and 10v, your backpressure > is acceptable with the k24 running within it's > designed MAP. A stock k24 > turbo from the 20vt might be good for 300 peak, but > not constant. Constant > the CFM numbers work out to no more than 280 (being > optimistic with the rest > of the DR/VE equation). > > >Those small ones work, but with lots of > backpressure and not > >too smooth. > > What is "not too smooth"? Backpressure might > increase slightly, but > performance increases dramatically. Doing back to > back testing on the k26 > water cooled (56.3mm exducer) to the k24 on my 83 > urq, smoothness at low and > midrange is much improved, and high end gives > little, if anything (again the > restriction is the CIS, not the turbo/EM on the urq) > to the k26. > Interestingly Jukka, if you look at the exducers the > RS2 has a smaller > exducer than the audi k26 10v turbocharger unit. So > exducer size is a guide, > but hardly THE only reference. > > >What You want the engine do: blow the motor or flow > the gas :)))) > > I want the engine, specifically the car, to PERFORM. > IF we use EFI, a lot of > options open up. USING the CIS as a given, the 10vt > urq is really well > matched to the k24, not the k26 that was supplied > with it. > > >An original 24 cold side is about 43mm, but there > is no good > >variations, so the K-26 is a good solution. Here we > have seen it > >with 50 compressor/ 55 turbine K-26 as a good one ( > RS-2 has a > >K-? with 48/55 ) also a hybrid with K-27Žs smallest > compressor > >( 53 ) has been succesful. All later 26:s seem to > have 55 turbine. > >( IŽm now working with a Bimmer 745i with stock > 64/53 K-27 ) > > I played with RS2's with bigger cold sides. The hot > side is well match to > the I5 up to the 400hp mark (you can get a RS2 to > flow 700cfm with different > wheel and housing combos). Beyond that, the > backpressure becomes a factor, > but some reduction in that can be found by cutting > the hot side wheel. This > does create a loud turbo whine, obviously > Porsche/Audi would accept that in > the RS2 car. I drove Graydon's efi conversion years > ago, and the k27 > application of it, definitely had low end > performance lag. WRT 745i, when > you have more displacement k27's work well. The > biggest problem we urq > owners have, is 2.1L of displacement is a given, and > to most, so is the CIS > and the IC. WITH those givens, the k24 is most > acceptable, I dare say, even: > Recommended. > > When you venture into the 20vt, things change some, > BUT, you must eliminate > the biggest restriction in the system to really > dictate a turbo larger/better > than the RS2; that being the MAF meter. Ditching > the motronic is a huge pill > to swallow, and modifiying it at a reasonable cost > also appears to have a > large bill attached to that hat. Up to 400hp, the > RS2 performs well, which > is about the max of the MAF meter anyhow. > > What you and Javad appear to be doing is going to > the restrictions, then > coming back to the turbo. Great! Right now, I have > Javad's EFI in my shop, > but working it to handle a CIS turbo to EFI turbo > swap (as apposed to CIS n/a> > EFI turbo swap it was designed for). After we get > that running, I might > consider a turbo swap, but given the MAP of the RS2 > turbo, the EFI with a > mongo intercooler (the app I'm working on) appears > to be a fine 10vt > expectation. > > >I started this thread, just to get some other > ideas, than mine for a > >fiver project, but looks like we are "quite" far > away;)) > > No problem, we are only "far" away because there are > very few that are doing > EFI conversions to CIS turbo cars. Once we can get > that done, quite a few of > us would be happy to get closer and share EM BTDT. > > HTH > > Scott Justusson > QSHIPQ Performance Tuning > Chicago Illinois > > > _______________________________________________ > Audifans urq mailing list > Send posts to: mailto:urq@audifans.com > Manage your list connection: http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/urq ===== -glen OOOO "....if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one" Jesus Christ to the Eleven Apostles at the Last Supper __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th! http://shopping.yahoo.com From selten2 at attbi.com Thu May 9 08:07:40 2002 From: selten2 at attbi.com (selten) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Chrome trim Message-ID: <001201c1f752$1e650380$6601a8c0@attbi.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] This is rather generic in nature but I need to know and this is the place t= o ask so; On the chrome trim that runs on top of the front bumper cover , t= he end pieces are what my question is about . Do the pieces finish in a bl= ack plastic "cap" or is there no black plastic end on it . My car has one o= f each so I know that one piece has been replaced at some point in the car= s life. Can anyone fill me in . I am a stickler for small details like this= on a car. TIA Tom Czerniak -- From brett at cloud9.net Thu May 9 12:47:10 2002 From: brett at cloud9.net (Brett Dikeman) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Chrome trim In-Reply-To: <001201c1f752$1e650380$6601a8c0@attbi.com> References: <001201c1f752$1e650380$6601a8c0@attbi.com> Message-ID: At 7:07 AM -0500 5/9/02, selten wrote: >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. >-- >[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] >This is rather generic in nature but I need to know and this is the >place to ask so; On the chrome trim that runs on top of the front >bumper cover , the end pieces are what my question is about . Do the >pieces finish in a black plastic "cap" or is there no black plastic >end on it There is a cap on both sides at the end, yes. There should also be two rubber endpieces on the back plastic trim that attaches directly to the fender. Brett -- ---- "They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin http://www.users.cloud9.net/~brett/ From Djdawson2 at aol.com Thu May 9 12:56:48 2002 From: Djdawson2 at aol.com (Djdawson2@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Chrome trim Message-ID: <90.25a00582.2a0bf640@aol.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Mine has black caps on the ends. Dave From malth at umich.edu Thu May 9 14:35:33 2002 From: malth at umich.edu (Chris Covington) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: v8q 5spd vs. 200q20v Message-ID: Does anyone have any figures on the acceleration of each? I'd imagine the V8 would be a tad bit quicker off the line, and then get passed by the 3B. I'd be curious to see 1/4 mile times. Chris '91 20q020v From info4mjs at worldnet.att.net Thu May 9 16:55:51 2002 From: info4mjs at worldnet.att.net (mjs) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: Average speed, miles per gallon problem Message-ID: <000901c1f793$86605d40$ef3a4f0c@zskqyiib> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Hi, If anyone has information regarding the diagnosis of the average speed and = miles per gallon function not working, I'd appreciate some help. Also, the= cruise control doesn't work and the differential lock works but doesn't di= sengage above 15 mph. It kind of points to a bad sensor somewhere. Any BTDT's would be great. Thanks for the help. Mike -- From malth at umich.edu Thu May 9 17:20:07 2002 From: malth at umich.edu (Chris Covington) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: brake conversions for 200q20v - wilwood Message-ID: http://www.audiconnection.com/brake_conversion.htm Has anyone BTDT? I like the thought of not needing 17" rims, and still having better brakes. But are these the type of brakes that need rebuilds every year? Although living and working in NYC I only drive my 200q20v once a month on weekends, I'd hate to have to rebuild the brakes every so often. Chris '91 200q20v From smuckycat at hotmail.com Thu May 9 18:46:54 2002 From: smuckycat at hotmail.com (Joshua C) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: white gauge faces Message-ID: in my lunchtime browsing I found the Audi connection and noticed they will soon be selling white gauge faces for the 200tq. could add a new look or be a new pia part to install...I wonder if they would give us a group buy? http://www.audiconnection.com/home.htm they also sell brake conversion kits. Also you guys with the new S4, ECS is now selling RS4 goodies. http://www.euro-car-service.com/default.htm I have bought a few items with them and they seem to be good to deal with. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From brett at cloud9.net Thu May 9 19:06:39 2002 From: brett at cloud9.net (Brett Dikeman) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: brake conversions for 200q20v - wilwood In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 4:20 PM -0400 5/9/02, Chris Covington wrote: >http://www.audiconnection.com/brake_conversion.htm > >Has anyone BTDT? Nope, but I don't see how a 11.75" rotor could be considered a replacement for a 13.3" rotor based system :-) > I like the thought of not needing 17" rims, and still >having better brakes. But are these the type of brakes that need rebuilds >every year? Although living and working in NYC I only drive my 200q20v >once a month on weekends, I'd hate to have to rebuild the brakes every so >often. I seem to recall that last time Wilwoods were mentioned, someone advised that they were best for track cars, not street cars...too much maintenance, yes. UFOs, aside from warping, are incredibly large, very reliable, fit under a 15" wheel, and rotor costs are getting more and more reasonable(even if they were not, they're still FAR more cost effective. Besides, for the same amount of money as this Wilwood kit, you can get the BIRA conversion for UFO-equipped cars and get MUCH larger diameter rotors(about 9mm larger and much thicker, I believe.) Brett -- ---- "They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin http://www.users.cloud9.net/~brett/ From charlie at istari.com Thu May 9 17:12:28 2002 From: charlie at istari.com (Charles Baer) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: brake conversions for 200q20v - wilwood Message-ID: <3CDAF44C.1A2344E7@istari.com> Did it, went with BIRA S6-S6 before their presence made the competition nervous enough to drop prices. Don't forget to compare replacement rotor & pad prices, weight if available, caliper repair/replacement in case something nasty eats the seals or bores. I would go w/ BIRA again, or a competitor that uses OEM parts and is priced on par. By using factory parts, I figure the odds of them being available and at predictable prices are improved. Some 16" wheels fit over the big red 993tt calipers, mine is System 6 and some 16s will fit over the 996tt calipers (which are lighter and carry a bit more pad). Charlie > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Covington [mailto:malth@umich.edu] > Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 2:20 PM > To: 200q20v@audifans.com > Cc: s-car-list@audifans.com > Subject: brake conversions for 200q20v - wilwood > > > http://www.audiconnection.com/brake_conversion.htm > > Has anyone BTDT? I like the thought of not needing 17" rims, > and still > having better brakes. But are these the type of brakes that > need rebuilds > every year? Although living and working in NYC I only drive > my 200q20v > once a month on weekends, I'd hate to have to rebuild the > brakes every so > often. From piotrs at u.washington.edu Thu May 9 16:27:26 2002 From: piotrs at u.washington.edu (P. Stegawski) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: v8q 5spd vs. 200q20v In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Not exactly the answer to your question but the '93 Audi Poster that I have hanging in my garage says that the 4.2 V8 auto does 0-60 in 7.3, and the same year 20V Turbo is 6.2 seconds. From what I heard the 3.6 5-speed V8 is slightly slower then the 4.2 automatic. Peter '90 200TQ On Thu, 9 May 2002, Chris Covington wrote: > Does anyone have any figures on the acceleration of each? I'd imagine the > V8 would be a tad bit quicker off the line, and then get passed by the 3B. > I'd be curious to see 1/4 mile times. > > Chris > '91 20q020v > > From eyvind.spangen at c2i.net Fri May 10 01:35:52 2002 From: eyvind.spangen at c2i.net (Eyvind Spangen) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: v8q 5spd vs. 200q20v In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 9 May 2002 15:27:26 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >Not exactly the answer to your question but the '93 Audi Poster that I >have hanging in my garage says that the 4.2 V8 auto does 0-60 in 7.3, and >the same year 20V Turbo is 6.2 seconds. From what I heard the 3.6 5-speed >V8 is slightly slower then the 4.2 automatic. And the 3.6 automatic is really sluggish below 4000 rpm. Over 4000 it gets a bit better, but it's still almost unbelieveable that it has got 250 hp... My 200q20v feels a *lot* fast, it is too.. -- E. Spangen '90 Audi 200TQ 20v (godt parkert i l?ven uten skilter) '96 Sykkel, drevet av '81 fattig student From thequattroking at yahoo.com Thu May 9 17:40:29 2002 From: thequattroking at yahoo.com (Shayne) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: v8q 5spd vs. 200q20v In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have a V8 5 speed. My mother has a stock 200 20V. I did this comparison back to back with a stop watch. I REALLY launched both vehicles. I was astounded with the results. I got 6.0 and 6.1 with the V8. I did not believe it. I did it 3 times. Same thing. That was a few years ago. I have not tried it since then. However, I doubt that my aging motor (190K) will be able to do that again. I did the same thing to the 200. I got 6.2 and 6.3 over 3 launches. Seems a little fast to me. But remember, I did this with a stop watch (and I used a GPS prior to confirm speedo accuracy). In cold weather, the 200 still feels REALLY strong with 155K on it. What really blew me away was the V8s stability at speed. Coming down a really long 5 degree hill in the middle-of-nowhere-Washington, I got the car up to 172 MPH on the GPS. I confirmed this be resetting the average velocity display on the dash. It read 172 also. Really stable. Shayne P. Currently, Spokane, WA. June, Oakland, CA. Enough Audis to give plenty of headaches. Parting: 1972 Mercedes Benz 280 SE 4.5 > Not exactly the answer to your question but the '93 Audi Poster that I > have hanging in my garage says that the 4.2 V8 auto does 0-60 in 7.3, and > the same year 20V Turbo is 6.2 seconds. From what I heard the 3.6 5-speed > V8 is slightly slower then the 4.2 automatic. >> Does anyone have any figures on the acceleration of each? I'd imagine the >> V8 would be a tad bit quicker off the line, and then get passed by the 3B. >> I'd be curious to see 1/4 mile times. From thequattroking at yahoo.com Thu May 9 17:44:16 2002 From: thequattroking at yahoo.com (Shayne) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:10:59 2003 Subject: brake conversions for 200q20v - wilwood In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have Willwoods on my V8 for nearly 4 years no. NO PROBLEMS AT ALL. I am running stock wheels (not for long though). Peddle feel is wonderful. Fade resistance is not to bad either. I did the whole conversion for around $600.00. I did not use anyone's kit. I built it myself with the help of Dustin from RPI and a local Audi guru. I believe that Keith from the V8 list also has done a few Willwood converions. Shayne P. Currently, Spokane, WA. June, Oakland, CA. Enough Audis to give plenty of headaches. Parting: 1972 Mercedes Benz 280 SE 4.5 >> http://www.audiconnection.com/brake_conversion.htm >> >> Has anyone BTDT? > > Nope, but I don't see how a 11.75" rotor could be considered a > replacement for a 13.3" rotor based system :-) > >> I like the thought of not needing 17" rims, and still >> having better brakes. But are these the type of brakes that need rebuilds >> every year? Although living and working in NYC I only drive my 200q20v >> once a month on weekends, I'd hate to have to rebuild the brakes every so >> often. > > I seem to recall that last time Wilwoods were mentioned, someone > advised that they were best for track cars, not street cars...too > much maintenance, yes. > > UFOs, aside from warping, are incredibly large, very reliable, fit > under a 15" wheel, and rotor costs are getting more and more > reasonable(even if they were not, they're still FAR more cost > effective. > > Besides, for the same amount of money as this Wilwood kit, you can > get the BIRA conversion for UFO-equipped cars and get MUCH larger > diameter rotors(about 9mm larger and much thicker, I believe.) From ekellock at juno.com Thu May 9 18:53:28 2002 From: ekellock at juno.com (Edward J Kellock) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: v8q 5spd vs. 200q20v Message-ID: <20020509.180237.-1535035.0.ekellock@juno.com> From ekellock at juno.com Thu May 9 19:11:57 2002 From: ekellock at juno.com (Edward J Kellock) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: Pikes Peak Hillclimb Message-ID: <20020509.181158.-1535035.2.ekellock@juno.com> From DasWolfen at aol.com Thu May 9 23:39:32 2002 From: DasWolfen at aol.com (DasWolfen@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: brake conversions for 200q20v - wilwood Message-ID: <130.e1006c7.2a0c8ce4@aol.com> In a message dated 5/9/02 6:10:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, brett@cloud9.net writes: > Nope, but I don't see how a 11.75" rotor could be considered a > replacement for a 13.3" rotor based system :-) Pretty easy to figure out when you stop looking at rotor diameter as the only factor. (btw, the ufo is NOT 13.3 inches) Lets start with 4 pistons vs 1 to turn line pressure into cramping force. Next we can look at the pad options available for a Wilwood calipers, I personally gave up counting the non-wilwood suppliers, Wilwood supplies 7 different compounds. For heat shielding Wilwood calipers can be equipped with stainless shields and Thermolock pistons. Rotational mass also comes into effect, anyone want to compute the force required to stop a 10lb rotor vs the force required for a 22lb rotor? How about unsprung weight? For UFO cars the weight loss is somewhere close to 20lbs PER SIDE. Less for G60 cars but still appreciable. For the record, Audi Connection's Wilwood brakes and white faced gauges are the product of my twisted mind. The gauges because I wanted them. The brakes because just last year NOBODY made a kit for a UFO car, and I've always had good experiences with Wilwoods in other apps. BIRA's response to inquiries at that time was that it wasnt "cost effective" to develop a kit for the UFO struts. (BIRA members please dont bother attempting to disprove this statement, I have the documentation and its in the V8 archives, a defence isnt required either, I'm not attempting to flamespray BIRA for the decision they made.) I'll fade back into the woodwork now. Keith Audi Connection From t44tq at mindspring.com Fri May 10 00:58:40 2002 From: t44tq at mindspring.com (TM) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: [s-cars] Re: brake conversions for 200q20v - wilwood In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000401c1f7d6$f91ec590$0d42fea9@newpc> Wilwood brake systems, as applicable to the 200q20v: Very light, low unsprung weight Very inexpensive brake pads Inexpensive calipers No weather seals- can require rebuilds quite often Rotors significantly smaller than the 310mm (?) UFO rotor BIRA System 2 UFO: Cost about same as Wilwoods, maybe a couple hundred more Much larger rotors- 320x30mm- larger heatsink and more brake torque Much larger brake pads- greater swept area Very easy pad changes Fully weather-sealed Will fit under a 16" wheel- I'll have results soon If you need to stay in a 15" wheel, you really should stick w/ UFOs- best brakes for the wheel fitment. Taka From tedebearp at yahoo.com Thu May 9 22:00:40 2002 From: tedebearp at yahoo.com (Theodore Chen) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: [s-cars] Re: brake conversions for 200q20v - wilwood In-Reply-To: <130.e1006c7.2a0c8ce4@aol.com> Message-ID: <20020510040040.51505.qmail@web14208.mail.yahoo.com> --- DasWolfen@aol.com wrote: > > Lets start with 4 pistons vs 1 to turn line pressure into cramping force. two, not four. the pistons oppose each other, so in determining the equivalent clamping force, you'd look at only one side of the caliper. > Next we can look at the pad options available for a Wilwood calipers, I > personally gave up counting the non-wilwood suppliers, Wilwood supplies 7 > different compounds. For heat shielding Wilwood calipers can be equipped with > stainless shields and Thermolock pistons. Rotational mass also comes into > effect, anyone want to compute the force required to stop a 10lb rotor vs the > force required for a 22lb rotor? neglible compared to the force required to stop a 4000 lb. car. > How about unsprung weight? For UFO cars the weight loss is somewhere close > to 20lbs PER SIDE. Less for G60 cars but still appreciable. that affects handling, but how does it affect braking? > For the record, Audi Connection's Wilwood brakes and white faced gauges are > the product of my twisted mind. The gauges because I wanted them. The brakes > because just last year NOBODY made a kit for a UFO car, and I've always had > good experiences with Wilwoods in other apps. BIRA's response to inquiries at > that time was that it wasnt "cost effective" to develop a kit for the UFO > struts. (BIRA members please dont bother attempting to disprove this > statement, I have the documentation and its in the V8 archives, a defence > isnt required either, I'm not attempting to flamespray BIRA for the decision > they made.) not defending BIRA or anything, but i think they do have something for UFO cars now. so which wilwood calipers did you use? superlite III 4-piston? i've got a set of the 6-piston calipers myself, but they're intended for the mustang. got a set of 13x1.25" rotors on hats to go with the calipers. your setup sounds nice, though i'm not sure 11.75" rotors are big enough for a 4000 lb. car. still better than the stock G60 setup on my S4, at least. -teddy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th! http://shopping.yahoo.com From t44tq at mindspring.com Fri May 10 01:17:19 2002 From: t44tq at mindspring.com (TM) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: brake conversions for 200q20v - wilwood In-Reply-To: <130.e1006c7.2a0c8ce4@aol.com> Message-ID: <000701c1f7d9$93f6e640$0d42fea9@newpc> Keith- You're wrong- 2Bennett and Anderson both had UFO brake conversions earlier than 1 yr. ago. Heck, 2Bennett's conversion was featured in a quattro quarterly sometime in 2000. If you mean an inexpensive (read less than $2000 and installable w/ hand tools), no, you're correct. Also, piston count has nothing to do w/ brake force. Taka From tedebearp at yahoo.com Thu May 9 22:35:25 2002 From: tedebearp at yahoo.com (Theodore Chen) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: [s-cars] RE: brake conversions for 200q20v - wilwood In-Reply-To: <000701c1f7d9$93f6e640$0d42fea9@newpc> Message-ID: <20020510043525.93339.qmail@web14207.mail.yahoo.com> --- TM wrote: > > Also, piston count has nothing to do w/ brake force. piston area does. to the extent thst it affects the total piston area, piston count should be considered. -teddy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th! http://shopping.yahoo.com From calvinlc at earthlink.net Fri May 10 00:19:46 2002 From: calvinlc at earthlink.net (Calvin & Diana Craig) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: v8q 5spd vs. 200q20v In-Reply-To: <20020510043109.7E61C3D5@www.audifans.com> Message-ID: My Car & Driver from 6/91 says 15.0 @ 92 MPH for the 5 speed V-8 and 6.6 for 0-60, with a top speed of 145 mph. My 12/90 Road & track says 0-60 in 7.2 for the 200, and 1/4 mile in 15.4 @ 88.5 mph with an "estimated" top speed of 150. I always thought the R&T guys couldn't drive worth a crap when comparing their times to the C&D guys and I know I can cut a better than 7.2 with my '91. But I believe it is pretty much a dead even heat. The V-8 weighs 250 lbs more (3898 vs. 3645). And my wife wonders why I keep all these old magazines around :) --Calvin Craig Parker, CO '92 S4 '91 200 TQ '89 200 TQW '72 Formula Firebird From t44tq at mindspring.com Fri May 10 07:56:09 2002 From: t44tq at mindspring.com (TM) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: [s-cars] RE: brake conversions for 200q20v - wilwood In-Reply-To: <20020510043525.93339.qmail@web14207.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000401c1f811$4b5ea1b0$0d42fea9@newpc> Good clarification- my point was, you can't just say "more pistons is better" without looking at other factors, one of which you just pointed out. Taka -----Original Message----- From: Theodore Chen [mailto:tedebearp@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 12:35 AM To: TM; DasWolfen@aol.com; 200q20v@audifans.com Cc: s-car-list@audifans.com Subject: Re: [s-cars] RE: brake conversions for 200q20v - wilwood --- TM wrote: > > Also, piston count has nothing to do w/ brake force. piston area does. to the extent thst it affects the total piston area, piston count should be considered. -teddy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th! http://shopping.yahoo.com From BeattyR at ummhc.org Fri May 10 08:53:02 2002 From: BeattyR at ummhc.org (Beatty, Robert) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: v8q 5spd vs. 200q20v Message-ID: This goes along with what i remember my dad telling me about the differences between the 3.6 vs the 4.2. He then proceeded to tell me about the time John Boffum took a couple of the AoA execs for a ride up Mt. Washington during one of the hillclimb weekends. Dad said they were quite pale when they got out of the car at the end... heheheh Rob 86 5ktq 89 200tqa > -----Original Message----- > From: P. Stegawski [mailto:piotrs@u.washington.edu] > > Not exactly the answer to your question but the '93 Audi Poster that I > have hanging in my garage says that the 4.2 V8 auto does 0-60 > in 7.3, and > the same year 20V Turbo is 6.2 seconds. From what I heard the > 3.6 5-speed > V8 is slightly slower then the 4.2 automatic. > > Peter > '90 200TQ > > On Thu, 9 May 2002, Chris Covington wrote: > > > Does anyone have any figures on the acceleration of each? > I'd imagine the > > V8 would be a tad bit quicker off the line, and then get > passed by the 3B. > > I'd be curious to see 1/4 mile times. > > > > Chris > > '91 20q020v > > > > > From malth at umich.edu Fri May 10 10:41:51 2002 From: malth at umich.edu (Chris Covington) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: [s-cars] Re: brake conversions for 200q20v - wilwood In-Reply-To: <000401c1f7d6$f91ec590$0d42fea9@newpc> Message-ID: I'm bummed that I have the only 16" wheel that won't fit any BIRAs, as per the web page: BBS RF 16x8. I like my wheels so much and drive my car so little (100 miles a month) that I can stand the G60s in the interim. Maybe I'll go with Wilwoods since I barely ever drive the car so rebuilds won't be that bad. Chris '91 200q20v On Thu, 9 May 2002, TM wrote: > Wilwood brake systems, as applicable to the 200q20v: > > Very light, low unsprung weight > Very inexpensive brake pads > Inexpensive calipers > No weather seals- can require rebuilds quite often > Rotors significantly smaller than the 310mm (?) UFO rotor > > > BIRA System 2 UFO: > Cost about same as Wilwoods, maybe a couple hundred more > Much larger rotors- 320x30mm- larger heatsink and more brake torque > Much larger brake pads- greater swept area > Very easy pad changes > Fully weather-sealed > Will fit under a 16" wheel- I'll have results soon > > If you need to stay in a 15" wheel, you really should stick w/ UFOs- > best brakes for the wheel fitment. > > Taka > > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v > From malth at umich.edu Fri May 10 10:43:45 2002 From: malth at umich.edu (Chris Covington) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: v8q 5spd vs. 200q20v In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Somebody should do an UrV8 5spd w/new S6 motor conversion. That would be sweet. ;) Chris '91 200q20v From michael at prospeedmotorsport.com Fri May 10 10:05:24 2002 From: michael at prospeedmotorsport.com (Michael (Prospeed Motorsport)) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: [s-cars] Re: brake conversions for 200q20v - wilwood In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000701c1f82b$bb531130$0200000a@porsche> Well, someone will probably slam me for this, so I have my Nomex undies on. Flame Away!! I would not recommend anything Wilwood makes for a street car. Wilwood does not make a "street" caliper as none of there calipers have any type of dust boot. There are used primarily on circle track cars where the calipers are pulled, checked and/or rebuilt after a race or two. None of the major caliper manufacturers, Brembo, AP, Alcon, Lockheed, Girling, etc. make or recommend using a caliper without dust boots on a street car. There is also a reason why the Wilwoods are so inexpensive . . . They are not in the same league as Brembo, AP or Alcon. You get what you pay for. FWIW, you can find used Porsche S4 calipers for $400/pr. And there are many suppliers of aftermarket rotors that are 32 mm (1.25") thick. I don't make anything for Audis, so no vested interest here. Michael G. Wachholz Prospeed Motorsports 952.249.1169 office 651.699.3098 fax 1735 Norfolk Avenue Saint Paul, MN 55116 mailto:michael@prospeedmotorsport.com www.prospeedmotorsport.com From rao at pixar.com Fri May 10 08:17:06 2002 From: rao at pixar.com (Arun Rao) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: Seeking geek license plates (LAC) Message-ID: Here's something frivolous, though it's quite possible someone's already done this. We have on one of our bulletin boards at work three pictures of decidedly "geeky" license plates, and I thought it would be cool to add to the gallery. So far, we have: VOID * SIGSEGV FFFF00 Anyone know of other candidates ... with pictures? -Arun '91 200Q (148K) '00 S4 (37K) PS: The last one's on my S4 : no prizes for guessing what color it is! From MTrank at albemarle.org Fri May 10 11:36:36 2002 From: MTrank at albemarle.org (Mark Trank) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: UFOs Message-ID: Listers: When installing new UFO rotors and pads, what if any initial "break-in" (no pun intended) can I anticipate? Any difference in pedal feel, etc? Original UFOs (and pads!) are on the car, pretty badly warped, and I was just wondering what I might need to do to ensure the rotors are treated property post-install. Thanks as always! Mark 91 200q20v 94k miles From mikemilr at blackfoot.net Fri May 10 11:02:26 2002 From: mikemilr at blackfoot.net (Mike Miller) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: Average speed, miles per gallon problem References: <000901c1f793$86605d40$ef3a4f0c@zskqyiib> Message-ID: <00ae01c1f83c$334a0620$5d2c010a@direcpc.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: mjs To: <200q20v@audifans.com> Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 1:55 PM Subject: Average speed, miles per gallon problem > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > Hi, > > If anyone has information regarding the diagnosis of the average speed and miles per gallon function not working, I'd appreciate some help. Also, the cruise control doesn't work and the differential lock works but doesn't disengage above 15 mph. It kind of points to a bad sensor somewhere. > > Any BTDT's would be great. Thanks for the help. > > Mike Sounds to me like the car cannot determine the speed it is going. Could very likely be the connection on the dash that fails so often.Even though the speedometer is working. mike miller From hah at alumni.rice.edu Fri May 10 11:28:38 2002 From: hah at alumni.rice.edu (Henry A Harper III) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: Seeking geek license plates (LAC) Message-ID: <01C1F80D.731DF150.hah@alumni.rice.edu> I don't have pictures, but a couple geeky ones from the area where I park at HP Boise: SQLHPNS NCC1701 (anybody see Futurama on Sunday?) Before construction changed my route through the parking lot, I would also drive by three yellow S2000s on my way in...what's up with that? Henry Harper http://www.henry-harper.com hah@alumni.rice.edu 1991 200 quattro, 115k, standard-issue plates, "bamboo metallic" stealth mobile (oops, front plate "fell off") 1988 GTI 16v, 226k, standard-issue plates, kind of loud & red but also mysteriously missing front plate, rear plate tends to get kind of dirty... On Friday, May 10, 2002 8:17 AM, Arun Rao [SMTP:rao@pixar.com] wrote: > > Here's something frivolous, though it's quite possible someone's already > done this. We have on one of our bulletin boards at work three pictures of > decidedly "geeky" license plates, and I thought it would be cool to add to > the gallery. > > So far, we have: > > VOID * > SIGSEGV > FFFF00 From pjrose at frontiernet.net Fri May 10 14:08:58 2002 From: pjrose at frontiernet.net (Phil Rose) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: Seeking geek license plates (LAC) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 7:17 AM -0700 5/10/02, Arun Rao wrote: >Here's something frivolous, though it's quite possible someone's already >done this. We have on one of our bulletin boards at work three pictures of >decidedly "geeky" license plates, and I thought it would be cool to add to >the gallery. > >So far, we have: > >VOID * >SIGSEGV >FFFF00 > > >Anyone know of other candidates ... with pictures? > >-Arun > >'91 200Q (148K) >'00 S4 (37K) > >PS: The last one's on my S4 : no prizes for guessing what color it is! I happened to be working in Photoshop just before opening your message. Your S4 is evidently about as yellow as yellow can be ("Imola", right?) Plates with 4F94A1 (yuck!) and 0000FF could work for us. Phil -- Phil Rose Rochester, NY USA '91 200q (130 Kmiles, Lago blue) '91 200q (57 Kmiles, Tornado red) mailto:pjrose@frontiernet.net From C1J1Miller at aol.com Fri May 10 14:11:46 2002 From: C1J1Miller at aol.com (C1J1Miller@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: v8q 5spd vs. 200q20v Message-ID: <1C316263.5A774011.0959A538@aol.com> I've got most of the magazine reviews for the 200q20v up on my site; C&D for example says 6.8 with a "slippy clutch". Probably a pretty hammered press car. For comparison, see the Sports Car International test data: PERFORMANCE 0-60 MPH: 6.13 SEC 0-100 MPH: 17.39 SEC 1/4 MILE: 14.78 SEC @ 90.6 MPH TOP SPEED: 148 MPH @ 6,000 RPM BRAKING FROM 60 MPH: 132 FT BRAKING FROM 80 MPH: 228 FT ENGINE ELASTICITY (TIME, SECONDS): GEAR 30-50 50-70 3RD 3.7 4.0 4TH 5.8 5.4 5TH 9.9 7.6 Per usual, the AOL server isn't doing a great job right now. Guess I should move the site to audifans? and put in that update I've been planning. http://members.aol.com/c1j1miller/welcome.html Chris In a message dated Fri, 10 May 2002 12:11:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Calvin & Diana Craig" writes: > >My Car & Driver from 6/91 says 15.0 @ 92 MPH for the 5 speed V-8 and 6.6 for >0-60, with a top speed of 145 mph. ?My 12/90 Road & track says 0-60 in 7.2 >for the 200, and 1/4 mile in 15.4 @ 88.5 mph with an "estimated" top speed >of 150. ?I always thought the R&T guys couldn't drive worth a crap when >comparing their times to the C&D guys and I know I can cut a better than 7.2 >with my '91. ?But I believe it is pretty much a dead even heat. ?The V-8 >weighs 250 lbs more (3898 vs. 3645). ?And my wife wonders why I keep all >these old magazines around :) >--Calvin Craig >Parker, CO >'92 S4 >'91 200 TQ >'89 200 TQW >'72 Formula Firebird From themercedesbenz at hotmail.com Fri May 10 16:16:56 2002 From: themercedesbenz at hotmail.com (Audi Sport) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: v8q 5spd vs. 200q20v Message-ID: [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] Somebody already did that. Well......sort of, because it's not a 5 speed. Go to www.audiv8.com[1] and go to the "galerie" (german website). There is a an Audi V8 in there with an S8 motor. ----Original Message Follows---- From: Chris Covington To: "Beatty, Robert" CC: "'P. Stegawski'" , , <200q20v@audifans.com> Subject: RE: v8q 5spd vs. 200q20v Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:43:45 -0400 (EDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from [64.205.178.107] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id MHotMailBEA51B15000C4004370A40CDB26BE5FF0; Fri, 10 May 2002 06:50:18 -0700 Received: by www.audifans.com (Postfix, from userid 0)id 2FA3041C; Fri, 10 May 2002 09:52:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.audifans.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])by www.audifans.com (Postfix) with ESMTPid A97363DA; Fri, 10 May 2002 09:51:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by www.audifans.com (Postfix, from userid 0)id E4BB6405; Fri, 10 May 2002 09:45:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from donkeykong.gpcc.itd.umich.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by www.audifans.com (Postfix) with ESMTPid 4B6F43DA; Fri, 10 May 2002 09:45:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from arkanoid.gpcc.itd.umich.edu (arkanoid.gpcc.itd.umich.edu [141.211.2.211]) by donkeykong.gpcc.itd.umich.edu (8.8.8/4.3-mailhub) with ESMTP id JAA23617; Fri, 10 May 2002 09:43:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (malth@localhost)by arkanoid.gpcc.itd.umich.edu (8.9.1a/5.1-client) with ESMTP id JAA01669; Fri, 10 May 2002 09:43:45 -0400 (EDT) From brett at cloud9.net Fri May 10 17:26:22 2002 From: brett at cloud9.net (Brett Dikeman) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: ignition wire spec Message-ID: What's spec on the ignition wires for resistance, new and "wear" limit? I'm guessing its 3.5kOhm, but I have no idea, and the Bentley volume with that info is on loan. Brett -- ---- "They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin http://www.users.cloud9.net/~brett/ From rao at pixar.com Fri May 10 14:40:06 2002 From: rao at pixar.com (Arun Rao) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: ignition wire spec In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My Bentley's at home (right next to my Rolls, and Audi :-), and your guess may be about right, but here's something to consider: when I checked the resistance of the spark plug wire a few years ago on my 5KT (RIP), 3 of the 5 were dead *open*, at least as far as my cheap meter could tell! But the car still ran fine and didn't miss, or anything. My best guess is that it was just arcing across internal breaks in the wire ... So ... if you're getting a reading at all, you're probably OK. -Arun On 5/10/02 1:26 PM, "Brett Dikeman" wrote: > What's spec on the ignition wires for resistance, new and "wear" limit? > > I'm guessing its 3.5kOhm, but I have no idea, and the Bentley volume > with that info is on loan. > > Brett > -- > ---- > "They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary > safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin > http://www.users.cloud9.net/~brett/ > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v > From brett at cloud9.net Fri May 10 19:46:18 2002 From: brett at cloud9.net (Brett Dikeman) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: @#$%!*^% Message-ID: How typical...I'm probably going to need to be in NY monday morning, and the car just bled out completely of hydraulic fluid within 5-10 minutes of driving; I babied it back to the house and looked at the devastation. Nothing near the pump, nothing near the rack as far as I can tell...but underneath, damn near EVERYTHING on the driver's side of the car is drenched in hydraulic fluid. It is, of course, going to end up being some hose that will be impossible to find on a Saturday morning and $$$$. The only clue at the moment is that there was some fluid appearing at the top of the high pressure hose that goes from the pump almost straight down between the hose and its thick jacket...if it burst internally, makes sense fluid would also make its way up the jacket. It's like the guy who comes in to the ER covered in blood head to toe...where's the injury? . The subframe is keeping me from getting a good look at the area the leak seems to be coming from(oil is dripping from all over the a-frame, so it seems the source is directly above there.) Doesn't help that because of the H&Rs/Bilsteins I can barely get my head in there anyway. Just wonderful. Brett -- ---- "They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin http://www.users.cloud9.net/~brett/ From Zoot531 at aol.com Fri May 10 19:45:25 2002 From: Zoot531 at aol.com (Zoot531@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: Spewing Green Goo! Fan out of comission. Message-ID: <67E4F13E.739E4887.001C0E25@aol.com> Listers, It seems that i should have knocked on the laminated zebrano when last i said the car was running in tip top shape. Just yesterday i had it at the carwash idleing and next thing i know, steam is billowing from under the hood and the car is leaking coolant at an alarming rate. Upon checking, i find that the coolant is gushing out of the filler cap which is still secured to the overfill tank. Here's the caveat...i check the temperature gauge and it's two ticks past halfway and the fan has not clicked on. The fan usually starts up about 1 or 2 ticks before halfway. Further testing concludes the fan will not click on in any circumstance....anyone have similar issues? What should i be checking? Thermostat? Fuses? Relays? I dunno! As always, many thanks, Adam Chinchiolo 200q20v...sweating profusely with a bad case of heat stroke PS: it was only 80 degrees...pretty mild for Stockton in May. From Zoot531 at aol.com Fri May 10 19:48:57 2002 From: Zoot531 at aol.com (Zoot531@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: Audi spewing green goo, fan is out to lunch Message-ID: <72.1c3a7e87.2a0da859@aol.com> Listers, It seems that i should have knocked on the laminated zebrano when last i said the car was running in tip top shape. Just yesterday i had it at the carwash idleing and next thing i know, steam is billowing from under the hood and the car is leaking coolant at an alarming rate. Upon checking, i find that the coolant is gushing out of the filler cap which is still secured to the overfill tank. Here's the caveat...i check the temperature gauge and it's two ticks past halfway and the fan has not clicked on. The fan usually starts up about 1 or 2 ticks before halfway. Further testing concludes the fan will not click on in any circumstance....anyone have similar issues? What should i be checking? Thermostat? Fuses? Relays? I dunno! As always, many thanks, Adam Chinchiolo 200q20v...sweating profusely with a bad case of heat stroke PS: it was only 80 degrees...pretty mild for Stockton in May. From brett at cloud9.net Fri May 10 20:13:48 2002 From: brett at cloud9.net (Brett Dikeman) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: Audi spewing green goo, fan is out to lunch In-Reply-To: <72.1c3a7e87.2a0da859@aol.com> References: <72.1c3a7e87.2a0da859@aol.com> Message-ID: At 6:48 PM -0400 5/10/02, Zoot531@aol.com wrote: >Listers, > > It seems that i should have knocked on the laminated zebrano when last i >said the car was running in tip top shape. Just yesterday i had it at the >carwash idleing and next thing i know, steam is billowing from under the hood >and the car is leaking coolant at an alarming rate. Upon checking, i find >that the coolant is gushing out of the filler cap which is still secured to >the overfill tank. Here's the caveat...i check the temperature gauge and >it's two ticks past halfway and the fan has not clicked on. The fan usually >starts up about 1 or 2 ticks before halfway. Further testing concludes the >fan will not click on in any circumstance....anyone have similar issues? >What should i be checking? Thermostat? Fuses? Relays? I dunno! This is most likely a failure of the fusible link; it is on the strut tower right behind the fan. Usually, the cover breaks off, the terminals corrode, and the link eventually just snaps. The break should be evident; if so, replace...any dealer should have it for practically a dollar or two. You can replace it with a fusible link wire(instead of a blade) of the same rating, in a pinch...which lots of places have. A 60A wire should work too, I think I remember people saying 80A was pretty high. Part number is N 017 125 3, and I believe it is rated 80A. To be safe, disconnect the battery before changing the fuse(just have the security code for the radio handy.) Technically if the after-run circuit came on, you could cause some pretty fireworks with your screwdriver. HTH, Brett -- ---- "They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin http://www.users.cloud9.net/~brett/ From malth at umich.edu Fri May 10 20:42:18 2002 From: malth at umich.edu (Chris Covington) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: Audi spewing green goo, fan is out to lunch In-Reply-To: <72.1c3a7e87.2a0da859@aol.com> Message-ID: Sounds like the fusible link. Mine went about this time last year - it probably happened in the middle of the winter or in the fall but nothing went wrong w/o the fan until it got warm out, also there were no problems on the highway until I hit traffic on 90 one day by the 84 intersection, then I turned on the heater in 80o weather at full blast in order to avoid said spewing. Its failure wasn't evident, but upon removal it clearly broke in 2. I believe the part was $2 from Clair (I was in Boston at the time and just had it ground shipped and it arrived in 1 day). No problems since. Chris '91 200q20v From SuffolkD at aol.com Fri May 10 20:50:48 2002 From: SuffolkD at aol.com (SuffolkD@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: 172 MPH Message-ID: <17e.82869c6.2a0db6d8@aol.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] OMG! Your really flying! I've been a passenger at 130 before in a VR6 Corrado, Things move really fast at that slower speed..................................... -Scott in BOSTON In a message dated 5/10/02 12:30:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 200q20v-request@audifans.com writes: > What really blew me away was the V8s stability at speed. Coming down a > really long 5 degree hill in the middle-of-nowhere-Washington, I got the car > up to 172 MPH on the GPS. I confirmed this be resetting the average > velocity display on the dash. It read 172 also. Really stable. > From knotnook at traverse.com Fri May 10 21:07:39 2002 From: knotnook at traverse.com (Kneale Brownson) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: @#$%!*^% In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020510200350.02ac6850@traverse.com> -- At 06:46 PM 05/10/2002 -0400, Brett Dikeman wrote: >How typical...I'm probably going to need to be in NY monday morning, >and the car just bled out completely of hydraulic fluid within 5-10 >minutes of driving; I babied it back to the house and looked at the >devastation. > >Nothing near the pump, nothing near the rack as far as I can >tell...but underneath, damn near EVERYTHING on the driver's side of >the car is drenched in hydraulic fluid. > >It is, of course, going to end up being some hose that will be >impossible to find on a Saturday morning and $$$$. > >The only clue at the moment is that there was some fluid appearing at >the top of the high pressure hose that goes from the pump almost >straight down between the hose and its thick jacket...if it burst >internally, makes sense fluid would also make its way up the jacket. > >It's like the guy who comes in to the ER covered in blood head to >toe...where's the injury? . The subframe is keeping me from >getting a good look at the area the leak seems to be coming from(oil >is dripping from all over the a-frame, so it seems the source is >directly above there.) Doesn't help that because of the >H&Rs/Bilsteins I can barely get my head in there anyway. When mine was making that kind of mess, it was leaking out the bottom center of the pump itself. I was positive it was from the hose to the "bomb" because that was looking all oozy. But it was just the pump seals dumping with the pulley and belts sending oil everywhere. A pump resealing has gone a couple years now without leaking. -- From pjrose at frontiernet.net Fri May 10 21:10:39 2002 From: pjrose at frontiernet.net (Phil and Judy Rose) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: Audi spewing green goo, fan is out to lunch In-Reply-To: References: <72.1c3a7e87.2a0da859@aol.com> Message-ID: At 7:13 PM -0400 5/10/02, Brett Dikeman wrote: > > >To be safe, disconnect the battery before changing the fuse(just have >the security code for the radio handy.) Technically if the after-run >circuit came on, you could cause some pretty fireworks with your >screwdriver. Instead of that, it might be much easier to simply remove the connector from the after-run sensor. Or--to be really daring--just wait for the engine to cool so possibility of after-run is infinitesimally small. Phil -- ********************************* * Phil & Judy Rose Rochester, NY * * mailto:pjrose@frontiernet.net * ********************************* From knotnook at traverse.com Fri May 10 21:28:12 2002 From: knotnook at traverse.com (Kneale Brownson) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: Spewing Green Goo! Fan out of comission. In-Reply-To: <67E4F13E.739E4887.001C0E25@aol.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020510200924.00c379b0@traverse.com> -- At 06:45 PM 05/10/2002 -0400, Zoot531@aol.com wrote: >Listers, > > It seems that i should have knocked on the laminated zebrano when > last i said the car was running in tip top shape. Just yesterday i had > it at the carwash idleing and next thing i know, steam is billowing from > under the hood and the car is leaking coolant at an alarming rate. Upon > checking, i find that the coolant is gushing out of the filler cap which > is still secured to the overfill tank. Here's the caveat...i check the > temperature gauge and it's two ticks past halfway and the fan has not > clicked on. The fan usually starts up about 1 or 2 ticks before > halfway. Further testing concludes the fan will not click on in any > circumstance....anyone have similar issues? What should i be > checking? Thermostat? Fuses? Relays? I dunno. If your fan doesn't come on with the A/C turned on, you probably have a broken fusible link. It's in a black plastic box attached to a bracket held in place by one of the screws fastening the coolant overflow reservoir. When you pry open the cover, the box usually breaks unless you've replaced it within the last four or five years. On my 200q20v, even the screws holding the box to the bracket were rusty (Michigan's salty roads) enough one broke off and had to be drilled out. The box is part number 281937505A, the box screws (2) are N0139567, the fuse itself, an 80-amp piece of metal that seems to just get brittle with age and break without melting/burning, often failing without visibly coming apart, is N0171253 and the fuse bolts (they're metric machine screws) are N01412811. I ordered two boxes and half a dozen fusible links a year ago because the same item is on our V8 and that car's link had failed, but I didn't get the box screws or the link bolts, but when I order a new "spare" box, I'm also going to get the screws. Actually, the 200q20v's bracket was rusted enough I couldn't clean it up with a wire brush but had to use a grinder before priming and painting, so I'll probably also order one of those too. That's part # 443971845AM. -- From brett at cloud9.net Fri May 10 21:37:46 2002 From: brett at cloud9.net (Brett Dikeman) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: undoing high pressure pump->bomb HP hose's banjo bolt Message-ID: Well, I just refilled the reservoir and started the car...with a light down in that general area. Started it up, then looked back under the car. From the front corner of the car, I could see a nice thick stream of hydraulic fluid shooting out between the metal pipe and the outer foam-looking jacket. It took about 20 seconds to empty the reservoir. Add to my problems a huge lake of pentosin on the driveway. About my only luck today seems to be that the Russian etka site came back up, and Chris happened to pop online. I had initially misread the ETKA diagram and come up with some odd part number(10 looked like "13") but Chris got it right...443 698 483 F(the high pressure supply line to the bomb from the pump.) He even found a picture from Zygmunt Motors: http://img.eautopartscatalog.com/live/N309030523.JPG That lovely hooked end goes right around the bomb and completely out of sight; I couldn't see it at -all-, but the Bentley diagram(how lucky for me I actually loaned out V1, not V2) shows the bolt to be on the bottom of the whole assembly. You've got the engine mount on top, and the bomb/subframe below, so I'm not sure how to get access to it. So, aside from the "where do I get this thing on a Saturday morning" problem, I've also got a "how do I get the bottom connection off"(top couldn't be easier from the looks of it.) Achive searches turned up a bunch of writeups about how to do a bomb change(which involves similar stuff, both require removing the HP line of course) but nothing that actually describes how to get at that banjo bolt. Can anyone offer some tips, or is this just a no-brainer, and it will all become clear when I get the car is up on jack stands? Brett -- ---- "They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin http://www.users.cloud9.net/~brett/ From DasWolfen at aol.com Fri May 10 21:41:19 2002 From: DasWolfen at aol.com (DasWolfen@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: [s-cars] Re: brake conversions for 200q20v - wilwood Message-ID: <156.db6b045.2a0dc2af@aol.com> In a message dated 5/10/02 10:10:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time, michael@prospeedmotorsport.com writes: > Well, someone will probably slam me for this, so I have my Nomex undies > on. Flame Away!! Deal. > I would not recommend anything Wilwood makes for a street car. Wilwood > does not make a "street" caliper as none of there calipers have any type > of dust boot. There are used primarily on circle track cars where the > calipers are pulled, checked and/or rebuilt after a race or two. Correct, Wilwood doesnt make a caliper with a dust boot. That in itself isnt a safety issue. Unlike something else I will mention further down. Correct, Wilwood calipers are rebuilt after nearly every race in certain usage. As are all makes of calipers after being subjected to several hours of abuse hard enough to make rotors glow. Incorrect, Wilwood calipers are not used primarily in circle track racing, They also enjoy widespread use in drag racing, certain classes of road racing, and off-road endurance racing. (Read BAJA 1000 for those unfamiliar with it) > None of the major caliper manufacturers, Brembo, AP, Alcon, Lockheed, > Girling, etc. make or recommend using a caliper without dust boots on a > street car. They don't recommend using cross-drilled rotors for the street either, as a safety issue. Wanna take a poll of how many listers convienently disregard that particular item? > There is also a reason why the Wilwoods are so inexpensive . . . They > are not in the same league as Brembo, AP or Alcon. You get what you pay > for. Do you have test data to back that up? FYI, the dominate brake in all levels of NASCAR is Wilwood. The top classes have a minimum race weight of 3800lbs, are limited to a 15" wheel, and the hand built chassis can cost over $100,000. These cars race on road courses, superspeedways, and 1/2 mile ovals for up to 600 miles. Now with those requirements why would owners like Roush, Yates, Penske, and Childress, who can afford any brake in the world, equip their cars with an inferior product? Subject $100,000 race cars to hazard to save a few hundred dollars? Put the safety of drivers at risk for the same reason? Please explain this, I'm dying to hear your expert opinion on the subject. > FWIW, you can find used Porsche S4 calipers for $400/pr. And there are > many suppliers of aftermarket rotors that are 32 mm (1.25") thick. > > I don't make anything for Audis, so no vested interest here. I do make things for Audi's and I dont put my customers at risk with inferior products. If you dont like what I offer, fine, but please refrain from making uninformed and unfounded statements about a product which you obviously know every little about. Keith From C1J1Miller at aol.com Fri May 10 21:57:15 2002 From: C1J1Miller at aol.com (C1J1Miller@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: fusible link Message-ID: <167.d9407e6.2a0dc66b@aol.com> Or do like I did last year; confirm it is busted by jumpering with an insulated screwdriver, then dig around the car to find a paperclip; that's fine to hold you until you get where you're going. As I recall, it is the ground for the circuit. You can make a fusible link at Pep Boys work for a while without much trouble In a message dated 5/10/02 8:29:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 200q20v-request@audifans.com writes: To: Brett Dikeman From: Phil and Judy Rose Subject: Re: Audi spewing green goo, fan is out to lunch Cc: Zoot531@aol.com, 200q20v@audifans.com At 7:13 PM -0400 5/10/02, Brett Dikeman wrote: > > >To be safe, disconnect the battery before changing the fuse(just have >the security code for the radio handy.) Technically if the after-run >circuit came on, you could cause some pretty fireworks with your >screwdriver. Instead of that, it might be much easier to simply remove the connector from the after-run sensor. Or--to be really daring--just wait for the engine to cool so possibility of after-run is infinitesimally small. Phil ____________________________________________________ Chris Miller, Bolton MA USA, c1j1miller@aol.com '91 200q20v ==> http://members.aol.com/c1j1miller/index.html ____________________________________________________ From C1J1Miller at aol.com Fri May 10 21:57:30 2002 From: C1J1Miller at aol.com (C1J1Miller@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: fusible link Message-ID: <5a.b484c68.2a0dc67a@aol.com> Or do like I did last year; confirm it is busted by jumpering with an insulated screwdriver, then dig around the car to find a paperclip; that's fine to hold you until you get where you're going. As I recall, it is the ground for the circuit. You can make a fusible link at Pep Boys work for a while without much trouble In a message dated 5/10/02 8:29:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 200q20v-request@audifans.com writes: To: Brett Dikeman From: Phil and Judy Rose Subject: Re: Audi spewing green goo, fan is out to lunch Cc: Zoot531@aol.com, 200q20v@audifans.com At 7:13 PM -0400 5/10/02, Brett Dikeman wrote: > > >To be safe, disconnect the battery before changing the fuse(just have >the security code for the radio handy.) Technically if the after-run >circuit came on, you could cause some pretty fireworks with your >screwdriver. Instead of that, it might be much easier to simply remove the connector from the after-run sensor. Or--to be really daring--just wait for the engine to cool so possibility of after-run is infinitesimally small. Phil ____________________________________________________ Chris Miller, Bolton MA USA, c1j1miller@aol.com '91 200q20v ==> http://members.aol.com/c1j1miller/index.html ____________________________________________________ From jbeer at BooseCasey.com Fri May 10 22:18:35 2002 From: jbeer at BooseCasey.com (Beer, Jerald) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: brake conversion-wildwood Message-ID: I have Wildwoods on my car. Although no dust boots, I have only rebuilt them once in 3 years..and that includes track time. I use a MB rotor, about 314mm. However, I must agree that Brembo (Boxster) calipers are superior to Wildwood if for no other reason than the Wildwoods flex a little under extreme use (even with bridge bolts); no problems at all on the street. When I did my conversion there was no BIRA. My set up is good, I suspect BIRA with Brembos would be even better. I am also in the minority as I am very happy with my Hawk HP plus pads for street and track use. Regards, Jerry 91 200qa (Wildwoods and Hawks) From DasWolfen at aol.com Fri May 10 22:48:36 2002 From: DasWolfen at aol.com (DasWolfen@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: brake conversion-wildwood Message-ID: In a message dated 5/10/02 9:29:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jbeer@BooseCasey.com writes: > I have Wildwoods on my car. Although no dust boots, I have only rebuilt them > once in 3 years..and that includes track time. I use a MB rotor, about > 314mm. However, I must agree that Brembo (Boxster) calipers are superior to > Wildwood if for no other reason than the Wildwoods flex a little under > extreme use (even with bridge bolts); no problems at all on the street. When > I did my conversion there was no BIRA. My set up is good, I suspect BIRA > with Brembos would be even better. I am also in the minority as I am very > happy with my Hawk HP plus pads for street and track use. > Regards, > Jerry > 91 200qa (Wildwoods and Hawks) Jerry, This is what I call an excellent post from an informed and intelligent owner. You know the strengths and weaknesses of the setup you're using and haven't made any unfounded claims. I'm curious what Wilwood caliper you're using. I too have found that certain designs tend to flex under extreme use. A trick to extend the longivity of the Wilwood seals is to add shims (old backing plates work well) as the pads wear to prevent exposing a large area of the pistons. Of course a good cleaning every so often helps too. Keith From stadmef at ntplx.net Fri May 10 23:13:09 2002 From: stadmef at ntplx.net (Frank Stadmeyer) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: Clutch Pedal, advice please. In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020510162153.00ae32b0@mail.csh.rit.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020510162153.00ae32b0@mail.csh.rit.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020510215908.028a51b0@mail.ntplx.net> Brett, This is the car my son took to school in Rochester, NY at RIT. Further investigation finds that the pedal goes to the floor on it's own. I did look at the Bentley and it talked about the return spring. I pointed him in the direction of the spring also. He's looked under the dash but can't find anything amiss but he doesn't have the benefit of the Bentley and it's illustrations. I sent him the pages out of the Bentley but they got degraded somehow in the email. I hate long distance diagnosis. All other suggestions welcome. Thanks Frank Stadmeyer At 09:39 PM 5/10/02 -0400, Brett Dikeman wrote: >At 4:24 PM -0400 5/10/02, Kevin Stadmeyer wrote: >>Hi I have a 1989 Audi 100 Q and there seems to be a problem with the clutch >>pedal in that it is very low to the floor and even when depressed fully it >>will not allow me to shift. I know my father lowered it somehow earlier in >>the year and at first I thought that it was just lowered that I remembered >>because I haven't driven it in a little bit, but now I am unable to shift >>at all using the clutch. Any suggestions on how I might be able to raise it >>back up or what not? > > >Three possibilities: > >a)no brake fluid left and the clutch circuit has air in it. Make >sure the reservoir has fluid in it, at least up to the min >line(should be halfway between min+max or thereabouts.) > >b)clutch master cylinder(where the pedal is) or the slave cylinder(on >top of the transmission) is leaking or the hose between them is >leaking. Look/feel around on the carpet for fluid, and with a >flashlight inspect the area around the top of the transmission for >fluid(the clutch slave cylinder has a hydraulic line running to it.) >If you get any on your hands, wash it off and don't touch anything on >the car until you have(brake fluid destroys car paint in a matter of >seconds.) > >c)return spring on the clutch pedal is broken or needs lubing(I >think; the Bentley manual mentions that if the pedal does not return, >to check the spring and/or make sure the pedal has free travel.) > >Hope this helps...let us know what you find, maybe we can help narrow it down. > >Brett >-- >---- >"They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary >safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin >http://www.users.cloud9.net/~brett/ Frank From knotnook at traverse.com Fri May 10 23:24:40 2002 From: knotnook at traverse.com (Kneale Brownson) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: undoing high pressure pump->bomb HP hose's banjo bolt In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020510222110.02ac8ea0@traverse.com> -- At 08:37 PM 05/10/2002 -0400, Brett Dikeman wrote: >Well, I just refilled the reservoir and started the car...with a >light down in that general area. > >Started it up, then looked back under the car. > > From the front corner of the car, I could see a nice thick stream of >hydraulic fluid shooting out between the metal pipe and the outer >foam-looking jacket. > >It took about 20 seconds to empty the reservoir. Add to my problems >a huge lake of pentosin on the driveway. > >About my only luck today seems to be that the Russian etka site came >back up, and Chris happened to pop online. > >I had initially misread the ETKA diagram and come up with some odd >part number(10 looked like "13") but Chris got it right...443 698 483 >F(the high pressure supply line to the bomb from the pump.) He even >found a picture from Zygmunt Motors: > >http://img.eautopartscatalog.com/live/N309030523.JPG > >That lovely hooked end goes right around the bomb and completely out >of sight; I couldn't see it at -all-, but the Bentley diagram(how >lucky for me I actually loaned out V1, not V2) shows the bolt to be >on the bottom of the whole assembly. You've got the engine mount on >top, and the bomb/subframe below, so I'm not sure how to get access >to it. > >So, aside from the "where do I get this thing on a Saturday morning" >problem, I've also got a "how do I get the bottom connection off"(top >couldn't be easier from the looks of it.) > >Achive searches turned up a bunch of writeups about how to do a bomb >change(which involves similar stuff, both require removing the HP >line of course) but nothing that actually describes how to get at >that banjo bolt. > >Can anyone offer some tips, or is this just a no-brainer, and it will >all become clear when I get the car is up on jack stands? I THINK it's fairly easy to get at from beneath with the car up on jackstands, Brett. I haven't replaced that hose, but if I remember correctly from when I was installing the little wiring harness to stop the A/C clutch electric spikes from destroying the ECU, you can see the bomb, its anchorages and the fitting clearly. -- From rao at pixar.com Fri May 10 20:36:40 2002 From: rao at pixar.com (Arun Rao) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: undoing high pressure pump->bomb HP hose's banjo bolt In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Brett, It's no big deal (I thought for a moment it was the rack hose, which is a real pain in the rear, but this one's easy). As you surmise, it should be obvious once you get in there, though I don't remember exactly what I did. I'd recommend *not* buying an OEM replacement for this particular one: I had mine rebuilt at a local hydraulic shop (they do bulldozers, trucks and stuff): it took all of 15 minutes and $30. It's been at least 50K on that hose, and no problems yet. The other advantage is that you can usually find one open on Saturdays: more likely than a dealer parts department. Good luck! -Arun On 5/10/02 5:37 PM, "Brett Dikeman" wrote: > Well, I just refilled the reservoir and started the car...with a > light down in that general area. > > Started it up, then looked back under the car. > > From the front corner of the car, I could see a nice thick stream of > hydraulic fluid shooting out between the metal pipe and the outer > foam-looking jacket. > > It took about 20 seconds to empty the reservoir. Add to my problems > a huge lake of pentosin on the driveway. > > About my only luck today seems to be that the Russian etka site came > back up, and Chris happened to pop online. > > I had initially misread the ETKA diagram and come up with some odd > part number(10 looked like "13") but Chris got it right...443 698 483 > F(the high pressure supply line to the bomb from the pump.) He even > found a picture from Zygmunt Motors: > > http://img.eautopartscatalog.com/live/N309030523.JPG > > That lovely hooked end goes right around the bomb and completely out > of sight; I couldn't see it at -all-, but the Bentley diagram(how > lucky for me I actually loaned out V1, not V2) shows the bolt to be > on the bottom of the whole assembly. You've got the engine mount on > top, and the bomb/subframe below, so I'm not sure how to get access > to it. > > So, aside from the "where do I get this thing on a Saturday morning" > problem, I've also got a "how do I get the bottom connection off"(top > couldn't be easier from the looks of it.) > > Achive searches turned up a bunch of writeups about how to do a bomb > change(which involves similar stuff, both require removing the HP > line of course) but nothing that actually describes how to get at > that banjo bolt. > > Can anyone offer some tips, or is this just a no-brainer, and it will > all become clear when I get the car is up on jack stands? > > Brett > -- > ---- > "They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary > safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin > http://www.users.cloud9.net/~brett/ > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v > From b.m.benz at prodigy.net Fri May 10 20:39:50 2002 From: b.m.benz at prodigy.net (Bernie Benz) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: brake conversion-wildwood In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > From: DasWolfen@aol.com > Jerry, > This is what I call an excellent post from an informed and intelligent > owner. You know the strengths and weaknesses of the setup you're using and > haven't made any unfounded claims. > > I'm curious what Wilwood caliper you're using. I too have found that certain > designs tend to flex under extreme use. > > A trick to extend the longivity of the Wilwood seals is to add shims (old > backing plates work well) as the pads wear to prevent exposing a large area > of the pistons. Of course a good cleaning every so often helps too. I judge that this "trick" is pure conjecture on your part. As a new pad wears the seal is always presented with clean piston from the inside. The dirty side of the piston never moves inward relative to the seal, inasmuch as piston movement due to changing braking pressure is comprised totally of seal deflection, not relative movement between the two parts. Therefore, from a hydraulics perspective, overhaul and parts cleaning is only necessary when replacing pads. Road salts may have an adverse effect on the aluminum parts even though they are hard anodized, but this is another factor and circumstance. Your "trick" of adding shims before pad replacement.requires unnecessary caliper overhaul with each shim addition, IMO. Bernie > > Keith From dlam119 at bellsouth.net Sat May 11 00:01:35 2002 From: dlam119 at bellsouth.net (Donald Lamond) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: @#$%!*^% References: Message-ID: <3CDC898F.A72D8742@bellsouth.net> Just think; it could have been a return trip ticket to Nantucket or the Vineyard instead of New York !! The authority doesn't give refunds! Donald From msvphoto at pacbell.net Fri May 10 21:07:26 2002 From: msvphoto at pacbell.net (Motor Sport Visions Photography) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: @#$%!*^% Message-ID: <3CDC8AEC.1007A8B0@pacbell.net> In a message dated 5/10/2002 Brett Dikeman writes: << Nothing near the pump, nothing near the rack as far as I can tell...but underneath, damn near EVERYTHING on the driver's side of the car is drenched in hydraulic fluid. It is, of course, going to end up being some hose that will be impossible to find on a Saturday morning and $$$$. The only clue at the moment is that there was some fluid appearing at the top of the high pressure hose that goes from the pump almost straight down between the hose and its thick jacket...if it burst internally, makes sense fluid would also make its way up the jacket. It's like the guy who comes in to the ER covered in blood head to toe...where's the injury? . The subframe is keeping me from getting a good look at the area the leak seems to be coming from(oil is dripping from all over the a-frame, so it seems the source is directly above there.) >> Ouch, I feel your pain, BTDT. When my '87 5ktq erupted that way it turned out to be the PS Pump-to-Bomb hose. Of course I first removed the PS HP Hose, took it to the hose shop to be rebuilt, put it back on the car and it still leaked as bad as before. I rushed back there with the Bomb hose, which they managed to rebuild almost while I waited. The bomb hose lives on to this day, the rebuilt HP hose died again in a few months and was replaced with the ever so reliable, and cheap, "Pick-N-Pull Hose" (which lives on to this day). Your best bet (assuming it isn't the rack) for a quick Saturday fix is a hydraulic shop. That or a junk yard (does the '91 take the same hydraulic hoses as type 44cars more commonly found in junk yards?) hose. The good news is that the bomb hose is much easier to change than the PS HP hose (at least on a 10V it is). Good luck! Mike Veglia Motor Sport Visions Photography http://www.motorsportvisions.com From pjrose at frontiernet.net Sat May 11 01:48:47 2002 From: pjrose at frontiernet.net (Phil Rose) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: undoing high pressure pump->bomb HP hose's banjo bolt In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 7:36 PM -0700 5/10/02, Arun Rao wrote: >Brett, > >It's no big deal (I thought for a moment it was the rack hose, which is a >real pain in the rear, but this one's easy). As you surmise, it should be >obvious once you get in there, though I don't remember exactly what I did. Arun took the words right out of my mouth: Thank goodness it ain't the HP hose to the rack, and "I don't remember exactly." :-( From the bomb replacement I did 3 yrs ago, I can recall little other than using jackstands and lying for a long time on my back . It was definitely do-able, altho a mechanic friend told me later that he always drops the subframe to do bomb replacements. I didn't. Let's see, I believe this the banjo fitting that requires having a good grip around the bomb in order to keep it from turning while the fitting is loosened/tightened? I seem to recall gripping it with an oil-filter wrench and some thick cardboard wrapped around the bomb. Phil -- Phil Rose Rochester, NY USA '91 200q (130 Kmiles, Lago blue) '91 200q (57 Kmiles, Tornado red) mailto:pjrose@frontiernet.net From sscalmanini at yahoo.com Sat May 11 01:13:30 2002 From: sscalmanini at yahoo.com (Scalmanini Steve) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: @#$%!*^% Message-ID: <20020511071330.43498.qmail@web12407.mail.yahoo.com> When mine had a gusher like that just 3 weeks ago it was the same problem you had, Kneale: one seal had given way (the top one adjacent to where one of the HP lines attaches). Confirmed visually by the mechanic within a few seconds after I started the engine for him to look for the problem. (Why didn't I think of that?) When they leak that fast it should be easy to see from where, Brett. Steve PS: Kneale, you're the first and only person I've heard that had long-term success with resealing their own pump (or did you have it done?). Do you have a secret technique? ------------------------------------------------------ When mine was making that kind of mess, it was leaking out the bottom center of the pump itself. I was positive it was from the hose to the "bomb" because that was looking all oozy. But it was just the pump seals dumping with the pulley and belts sending oil everywhere. A pump resealing has gone a couple years now without leaking. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From fundsaloracing at yahoo.com Sat May 11 05:54:26 2002 From: fundsaloracing at yahoo.com (Fundsalo Racing) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: UFOs - braking in procedure, etc. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020511115426.26861.qmail@web13604.mail.yahoo.com> Use brake-clean liberally to remove all material from the friction surfaces of the rotors. Consider painting the UFO part with high-temp engine enamel to stop/slow rusting. Bed-in the pads. You will get many differing opinions on this procedure, mine in but one opinion and process. Your pads might include instructions for this procedure. My procedure is to perform multiple moderate stops from like 30 to zero to SLOWLY heat the pads up to stinky-hot. Some slight smoking of the pads is OK and is a good sign that you have them hot enough. I monitor progress both heating and cooling with a laser temp meter. Then drive at moderate speed for 5-10 miles with no braking to cool them. All done! Pedal should be nice and high and brakes should feel very solid. SS flexible brake hoses make a huge difference in pedal feel, especially when hot. -glen OOOO --- Mark Trank wrote: > Listers: > > When installing new UFO rotors and pads, what if any > initial "break-in" (no > pun intended) can I anticipate? Any difference in > pedal feel, etc? > Original UFOs (and pads!) are on the car, pretty > badly warped, and I was > just wondering what I might need to do to ensure the > rotors are treated > property post-install. > > Thanks as always! > > Mark > 91 200q20v > 94k miles > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v ===== -glen OOOO "....if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one" Jesus Christ to the Eleven Apostles at the Last Supper __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From knotnook at traverse.com Sat May 11 09:07:22 2002 From: knotnook at traverse.com (Kneale Brownson) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: undoing high pressure pump->bomb HP hose's banjo bolt In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020511080547.00c33800@traverse.com> -- At 12:48 AM 05/11/2002 -0400, Phil Rose wrote: Let's >see, I believe this the banjo fitting that requires having a good >grip around the bomb in order to keep it from turning while the >fitting is loosened/tightened? I seem to recall gripping it with an >oil-filter wrench and some thick cardboard wrapped around the bomb. Sounds like a good job for one of those strap wrenches. I got a set at Sears that had a big and little one for under $20. -- From fundsaloracing at yahoo.com Sat May 11 06:29:28 2002 From: fundsaloracing at yahoo.com (Fundsalo Racing) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: [urq] Re: 10 vT EM? - high-flow MAF meters? In-Reply-To: <175.804722c.2a0bc5a9@aol.com> Message-ID: <20020511122928.26498.qmail@web13608.mail.yahoo.com> Larger Vs RS2. We are also developing compatible software for same. -glen OOOO --- QSHIPQ@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 5/9/02 5:25:29 AM Central > Daylight Time, > fundsaloracing@yahoo.com writes: > > > > Would it be of interest to anyone if I could > source a > > high-flow MAF meter? Also applicable to 3B and AAN > > vehciles. > > > > Please respond ONLY to: > > > > glen@northerneuropeanautomotive.com > > > > Thanks! > > > > -glen > > > > Like the RS2? Or bigger? > > Remember glen, any change in MAF is going to need a > chip reprogram. Ford > motorsport has a neat 90mm one :). > > SJ > ===== -glen OOOO "....if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one" Jesus Christ to the Eleven Apostles at the Last Supper __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From b.m.benz at prodigy.net Sat May 11 07:47:39 2002 From: b.m.benz at prodigy.net (Bernie Benz) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: brake conversion-wilwood In-Reply-To: <33.26e21444.2a0e1e50@aol.com> Message-ID: > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Scott and Keith, My point is based on the fact that reliable 0-ring and Quad ring seals must be protected from the ingestion of even small particles and quanities of dirt. That's why shocks and all industural hydraulic cylinders use rod scrapers as the outside protection from such intrusions. Inasmuch as this road grime cannot be cleaned from the piston surface, short of disassembly, within the small piston to bore clearance and the sharp accute angle formed at seal to piston interface, it will be ingested if the piston is forced back into the bore. Mark's response from "Todd Howerton" Subject: DUST SEALS indicated that Wilwood pistons are stainless steel and he did indicate that some use Keith's "trick" in servicing pads, but hardly a recomendation, IMO. Therefore, from a seal reliability standpoint, in the absence of dust boots the piston should never be forced back into the caliper without disassembly and cleaning. And there is absolutely no good reason for doing so. A little ss hanging out in the breeze incours no harm, but don't abuse your seals! Bernie From: QSHIPQ@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 03:12:16 EDT To: b.m.benz@prodigy.net Cc: DasWolfen@aol.com Subject: Re: brake conversion-wildwood Not at all with you bernie. first, keith was referencing non seal calipers. Second, read the "response" from Mark Chang's dust seal inquiry. Third, look at the difference between aftermarket pads and the stock textars on Big Red applications. Fourth, having just done this "trick" at Grattan a couple weeks ago (with keith helping me rebuild the brakes), it's very obvious that exposing less piston to the elements is a good thing. Dust seals or not. For more on the dust seal "exposure" you could do an archive search, when I was serving up MGW a huge plate of humble pie wrt big reds. SJ In a message dated 5/10/02 9:49:10 PM Central Daylight Time, b.m.benz@prodigy.net writes: I judge that this "trick" is pure conjecture on your part. As a new pad wears the seal is always presented with clean piston from the inside. The dirty side of the piston never moves inward relative to the seal, inasmuch as piston movement due to changing braking pressure is comprised totally of seal deflection, not relative movement between the two parts. Therefore, from a hydraulics perspective, overhaul and parts cleaning is only necessary when replacing pads. Road salts may have an adverse effect on the aluminum parts even though they are hard anodized, but this is another factor and circumstance. Your "trick" of adding shims before pad replacement.requires unnecessary caliper overhaul with each shim addition, IMO. Bernie > -- From b.m.benz at prodigy.net Sat May 11 07:59:26 2002 From: b.m.benz at prodigy.net (Bernie Benz) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: @#$%!*^% In-Reply-To: <20020511071330.43498.qmail@web12407.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > From: Scalmanini Steve > > PS: Kneale, you're the first and only person I've > heard that had long-term success with resealing their > own pump (or did you have it done?). Do you have a > secret technique? > Steve, the secret technique is to lube the o-rings well before screwing the cylinder heads back in to prevent twist distortion of the ring. I've overhauled many. Bernie From knotnook at traverse.com Sat May 11 11:25:44 2002 From: knotnook at traverse.com (Kneale Brownson) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: @#$%!*^% In-Reply-To: References: <20020511071330.43498.qmail@web12407.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020511101618.02a0b100@traverse.com> -- At 06:59 AM 05/11/2002 -0700, Bernie Benz wrote: > > From: Scalmanini Steve > > > > PS: Kneale, you're the first and only person I've > > heard that had long-term success with resealing their > > own pump (or did you have it done?). Do you have a > > secret technique? > > >Steve, the secret technique is to lube the o-rings well before >screwing the cylinder heads back in to prevent twist distortion >of the ring. I've overhauled many. I agree with dipping the O-Rings in Pentosin prior to reassembly. I also tightened the two bolts holding the pump halves together to their recommended torque gradually. IE, take one to, say, half the recommended torque, match that with the other, then take one to 3/4, match, etc. -- From b.m.benz at prodigy.net Sat May 11 09:07:07 2002 From: b.m.benz at prodigy.net (Bernie Benz) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: brake conversion-wilwood In-Reply-To: <57.b51e194.2a0e8839@aol.com> Message-ID: So, in the interest of seal reliability, overhaul the calipers before adding your shims, if you can't afford new pads. Bernie > From: DasWolfen@aol.com > Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 10:44:09 EDT > To: b.m.benz@prodigy.net > Subject: Re: brake conversion-wilwood > > In a message dated 5/11/02 9:49:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > b.m.benz@prodigy.net writes: > >> Mark's response from "Todd Howerton" >> Subject: DUST SEALS indicated that Wilwood pistons are stainless steel and >> he did indicate that some use Keith's "trick" in servicing pads, but hardly >> a recomendation, IMO. Therefore, from a seal reliability standpoint, in > the >> absence of dust boots the piston should never be forced back into the >> caliper without disassembly and cleaning. And there is absolutely no good >> reason for doing so. A little ss hanging out in the breeze incours no > harm, >> but don't abuse your seals! > > > Wilwood catalog 2001 pg 15, Tech Tip: "Spacer plates may be added behind the > pad backing plate as it wears so the caliper pistons will not have to be > exposed to the abusive track dirt and grit." > > Scott and I witnessed the reason for this at the Gratan event on a set of > Outlaw calipers (rebranded Wilwood Billet Superlites) with badly nicked > pistons. I wonder who the real experts are. > > Keith From wolff at turboquattro.com Sat May 11 09:04:26 2002 From: wolff at turboquattro.com (wolff@turboquattro.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: UFOs - braking in procedure, etc. References: <20020511115426.26861.qmail@web13604.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00d601c1f8fd$248efed0$6401a8c0@lexx> > > Consider painting the UFO part with high-temp engine > enamel to stop/slow rusting. > I suggest bright orange... From pck at gte.net Sat May 11 10:41:56 2002 From: pck at gte.net (pck@gte.net) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: UFOs - braking in procedure, etc. References: <20020511115426.26861.qmail@web13604.mail.yahoo.com> <00d601c1f8fd$248efed0$6401a8c0@lexx> Message-ID: <004d01c1f90a$c8dcfe80$37d0fea9@preferreduser> I vote yellow.... ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "200q20v" <200q20v@audifans.com> Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 8:04 AM Subject: Re: UFOs - braking in procedure, etc. > > > > > Consider painting the UFO part with high-temp engine > > enamel to stop/slow rusting. > > > > I suggest bright orange... > > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From jbeer at BooseCasey.com Sat May 11 17:57:21 2002 From: jbeer at BooseCasey.com (Beer, Jerald) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: brake conversion-Wildwood Message-ID: Keith I am using the superlite model. It is about 4 years old now. Brakes get inspected before EVERY trcck event. Thanks for the shim trick although I'll probably keep the Bernie Benz approach-if it ain't broke, don't replace (fix) it!! Regards, Jerry 91 200qa From QSHIPQ at aol.com Sun May 12 00:24:32 2002 From: QSHIPQ at aol.com (QSHIPQ@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: brake conversion-wilwood Message-ID: <112.1161a784.2a0f3a70@aol.com> Bernie: I'm not at ALL with you, I doubt wilwood is too. Shims, quite frankly are a great idea for a couple reasons. First, as a pad wears, more of the piston is exposed to the elements in a non sealed caliper. This means (SS or not) that surface rust forms on the piston, the further the pad wears, the more rust area will form. As this crud gets scraped off, wear of the piston bore occurs, more crud = more potential wear =increased service interval. WRT dust sealed calipers, as the pad wears, the piston is pushed further from rest position. The further a piston travels to make pad/rotor contact, the less stable the piston becomes, and from a strict leverage standpoint, the further a piston is extended, the more the caliper tendency to twist. This is especially true of floating calipers, but it certainly applies to fixed calipers as well. As a caliper twists or a piston kinks, the more heat is generated. As heat increases, bye bye dust seal,. btst many times especially on G60's I'm not really sure which corner you are presenting your opinions from. It would appear that keith is speaking of aftermarket fixed caliper arrangements with no dust shield. You are speaking of either aftermarket fixed caliper or stock floating calipers with dust shields. IN either perspective, the less total piston travel you have, results in ALL good things in terms of service life, btdt. When you speak of ANY aftermarket brake combination, shims are a key factor in them. For more on this ck the archives, I went a round with MGW on this exact point. Bottom line: The less piston travel (*however* you achieve it, shims are the easiest way) over the life of a given pad, the less service the caliper will require. Remember too, that if you gander about WRT pad thickness vs backing plate/shims, the measures are all over the map. Close attention should be paid to the piston extension recommendation, especially as you clamp "non app" rotors (ie big reds on A8 rotors for example) Bernie, I service a LOT of aftermarket brake setups on quattros, some better n others. But here, bottom line, I'm just not with you. With many of the wilwood applications, or anyone going after 4x4 pot calipers, you really *have* to do the shim routine, or you will find yourself out of master cylinder quickly. my .02 arbitraged thru the peso '87 t44tqw mit big reds (dust booted) and shims In a message dated 5/11/02 8:49:30 AM Central Daylight Time, b.m.benz@prodigy.net writes: > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Scott and Keith, My point is based on the fact that reliable 0-ring and Quad ring seals must be protected from the ingestion of even small particles and quanities of dirt. That's why shocks and all industural hydraulic cylinders use rod scrapers as the outside protection from such intrusions. Inasmuch as this road grime cannot be cleaned from the piston surface, short of disassembly, within the small piston to bore clearance and the sharp accute angle formed at seal to piston interface, it will be ingested if the piston is forced back into the bore. Mark's response from "Todd Howerton" Subject: DUST SEALS indicated that Wilwood pistons are stainless steel and he did indicate that some use Keith's "trick" in servicing pads, but hardly a recomendation, IMO. Therefore, from a seal reliability standpoint, in the absence of dust boots the piston should never be forced back into the caliper without disassembly and cleaning. And there is absolutely no good reason for doing so. A little ss hanging out in the breeze incours no harm, but don't abuse your seals! Bernie From storemanager2276 at msn.com Sun May 12 08:36:54 2002 From: storemanager2276 at msn.com (Bob Johnson) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: Wishing you a wonderful day Message-ID: <41135-22002501211365420@c2235544-a> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Welcome to Johnson Home Products & Services http://www.johnsonhome2276.com YOUR COMPLIMENTARY GIFT From Johnson Home P & S Register TODAY! if haven't already. Hurry while supplies Last. Free Gift Offer at my expense. http://home.attbi.com/~johnsonhomestor1/YOUR_COMPLIMENTARY_GIFT.htx -- From mik at info.fundp.ac.be Sun May 12 14:52:31 2002 From: mik at info.fundp.ac.be (Mihnea Cotet) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: Wishing you a wonderful day- another type of spam??? In-Reply-To: <41135-22002501211365420@c2235544-a> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020512135059.01c7eca0@backus.info.fundp.ac.be> Is it true that one doesn't have to be subscribed on the 200q20v list in order to be able to post on it? This type of spam is a big WOB and it sucks! Mihnea >Welcome to Johnson Home Products & Services >http://www.johnsonhome2276.com > >YOUR COMPLIMENTARY GIFT From Johnson Home P & S Register TODAY! if haven't >already. >Hurry while supplies Last. Free Gift Offer at my expense. >http://home.attbi.com/~johnsonhomestor1/YOUR_COMPLIMENTARY_GIFT.htx > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ >200q20v mailing list >200q20v@audifans.com >http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From knotnook at traverse.com Sun May 12 09:31:43 2002 From: knotnook at traverse.com (Kneale Brownson) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: Wishing you a wonderful day- another type of spam??? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020512135059.01c7eca0@backus.info.fundp.ac.be> References: <41135-22002501211365420@c2235544-a> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020512082927.00c33100@traverse.com> -- Yeah, Steve recently decided to reset the V8 list so that only subscribers could post automatically. Nonsubscriber posts accumulate until he has a chance to review them for appropriateness. That's helped. At 01:52 PM 05/12/2002 +0200, Mihnea Cotet wrote: >Is it true that one doesn't have to be subscribed on the 200q20v list in >order to be able to post on it? > >This type of spam is a big WOB and it sucks! > >Mihnea > > >>Welcome to Johnson Home Products & Services >>http://www.johnsonhome2276.com >> >>YOUR COMPLIMENTARY GIFT From Johnson Home P & S Register TODAY! if haven't >>already. >>Hurry while supplies Last. Free Gift Offer at my expense. >>http://home.attbi.com/~johnsonhomestor1/YOUR_COMPLIMENTARY_GIFT.htx >> >> >> >>-- >> >>_______________________________________________ >>200q20v mailing list >>200q20v@audifans.com >>http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v > >_______________________________________________ >200q20v mailing list >200q20v@audifans.com >http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v > > -- From fundsaloracing at yahoo.com Sun May 12 06:57:16 2002 From: fundsaloracing at yahoo.com (Fundsalo Racing) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: UFOs - braking in procedure, etc. In-Reply-To: <004d01c1f90a$c8dcfe80$37d0fea9@preferreduser> Message-ID: <20020512125716.31604.qmail@web13609.mail.yahoo.com> Black IS best! -glen OOOO --- pck@gte.net wrote: > I vote yellow.... > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "200q20v" <200q20v@audifans.com> > Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 8:04 AM > Subject: Re: UFOs - braking in procedure, etc. > > > > > > > > > > Consider painting the UFO part with high-temp > engine > > > enamel to stop/slow rusting. > > > > > > > I suggest bright orange... > > > > _______________________________________________ > > 200q20v mailing list > > 200q20v@audifans.com > > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v > > > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v ===== -glen OOOO "....if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one" Jesus Christ to the Eleven Apostles at the Last Supper __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From pjrose at frontiernet.net Sun May 12 12:34:46 2002 From: pjrose at frontiernet.net (Phil Rose) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: track/street pads for G60 Message-ID: I'm looking for an alternative to Hawk Blue pads--for use with G60 brakes on my "other" car. I was very pleased with the performance of Hawk Blues on the Lago car at WG last summer. But now, I've got _two_ cars to put on the track this summer, so I'd like to consider a less expensive pad upgrade for #2--possibly pads that could also be used on the street. Mintex pads have been suggested as a less expensive track pad that can also be used as a "street" pad. Any BTDT with Mintex for mixed track/street use? Which one? Cost? Availability? Phil -- Phil Rose Rochester, NY USA '91 200q (130 Kmiles, Lago blue) '91 200q (57 Kmiles, Tornado red) mailto:pjrose@frontiernet.net From calvinlc at earthlink.net Sun May 12 11:25:21 2002 From: calvinlc at earthlink.net (Calvin & Diana Craig) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: Wishing You a Wonderful Day In-Reply-To: <20020512161032.CA6DF36D@www.audifans.com> Message-ID: While I hate spam as much as the next guy how many times does this really happen on this list? I think maybe once a week or once a month. Is it really a big enough deal to make the list caretaker waste hours of time thumbing through e-mails reviewing them before posting them? I just don't want to pile all sorts of responsibility onto one person when it's so easy to hit the delete key. The two reponses, well now 3 :), to the post wasted more bandwidth than the post itself. --Calvin Craig Parker, CO '92 S4 '91 200 TQ '89 200 TQW '72 Formula Firebird From quattrodave at yahoo.com Sun May 12 14:35:27 2002 From: quattrodave at yahoo.com (Dave Haupt) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: Wanted: advice on steering rack Message-ID: <20020512203527.44974.qmail@web12802.mail.yahoo.com> Today I was about to replace the high pressure pump-to-rack hose I acquired a week ago. As I began moving parts out of the way, I spied the dastardly problem. The driver's side boot is torn in two. Pentosin sludge all over the place, although it's not spraying. It's all landing on the transmission, going through about a pint every two weeks of very little driving. Seems to me there shouldn't even be Pentosin inside where that boot protects, so it suggests an internal leak. Did I get that right? So, I needs a new rack. The write-ups on Chris Miller's page, plus the Bentley, give me all the information required for me to know I should not try this myself. So, looking for BTDT on getting a mechanic to do it. Are there common mistakes they make? Is there a preferred source for the racks? Blau gets $250, any reason not to use theirs? Anything else a mechanic ought to do, as long as the rack is out? Is the task possibly easier than I think? TIA, Dave 1989 200Q 10V sedan 148k miles Santa Rosa, CA __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From Bleaf1 at peoplepc.com Sun May 12 19:22:31 2002 From: Bleaf1 at peoplepc.com (Vincenzo Basile) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: instrument cluster Message-ID: <000c01c1fa03$83cd4bc0$b366c143@oemcomputer> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Hi how is everyone: I was hoping somebody out there could possibly help me out,does anybody kno= w which grounds to resolder in the instrument cluster system check OK,see m= y brake pad light is always on(is there a diagram on a web site that could = show me where the grounds are?.I have exhausted pretty much all other possi= bilities of what it could be.Could I also possibly disconnect that wire or = wires from the plug that actually runs the system check OK -- From b.m.benz at prodigy.net Sun May 12 16:15:47 2002 From: b.m.benz at prodigy.net (Bernie Benz) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: Wanted: advice on steering rack In-Reply-To: <20020512203527.44974.qmail@web12802.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dave, If the fluid is really coming out of the center of the rack boot area (clean it all off and make sure) your problem is the high pressure piston rod seal which, when leaking, leaks into this area. This is the cause of 90% of all rack failures. You need a new rod seal. A rebuilt rack should have a new seal included in the rebuild. The seal can be replaced DIY with a $30 seal kit, but a big job. The largest part being the R&R. BTDT on a "87 5KTQ. Be sure that your R&R mechanic knows how to center the steering wheel on the center of the new rack. Bernie > From: Dave Haupt > Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 13:35:27 -0700 (PDT) > To: 200q20v@audifans.com > Subject: Wanted: advice on steering rack > > Today I was about to replace the high pressure > pump-to-rack hose I acquired a week ago. As I began > moving parts out of the way, I spied the dastardly > problem. The driver's side boot is torn in two. > Pentosin sludge all over the place, although it's not > spraying. It's all landing on the transmission, going > through about a pint every two weeks of very little > driving. > > Seems to me there shouldn't even be Pentosin inside > where that boot protects, so it suggests an internal > leak. > > Did I get that right? > > So, I needs a new rack. > > The write-ups on Chris Miller's page, plus the > Bentley, give me all the information required for me > to know I should not try this myself. > > So, looking for BTDT on getting a mechanic to do it. > Are there common mistakes they make? Is there a > preferred source for the racks? Blau gets $250, any > reason not to use theirs? Anything else a mechanic > ought to do, as long as the rack is out? > > Is the task possibly easier than I think? > > TIA, > > Dave > 1989 200Q 10V sedan 148k miles > Santa Rosa, CA > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience > http://launch.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From b.m.benz at prodigy.net Sun May 12 16:15:47 2002 From: b.m.benz at prodigy.net (Bernie Benz) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: brake conversion-wilwood In-Reply-To: <112.1161a784.2a0f3a70@aol.com> Message-ID: Hi Scott, I'm in general through with this thread, inasmuch as I don't have Wilwoods, just opinions (suprise!) hopefully based on sound principles, but I must go through your response below to challange some of your apparent misconceptions, Scott. > From: QSHIPQ@aol.com > Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 23:24:32 EDT > To: b.m.benz@prodigy.net > Cc: 200q20v@audifans.com, DasWolfen@aol.com > Subject: Re: brake conversion-wilwood > > Bernie: > I'm not at ALL with you, I doubt wilwood is too. Shims, quite frankly are a > great idea for a couple reasons. First, as a pad wears, more of the piston > is exposed to the elements in a non sealed caliper. This means (SS or not) > that surface rust forms on the piston, If rust forms on a ss piston, it's not stainless. That's Wilwood's problem. > the further the pad wears, the more > rust area will form. As this crud gets scraped off, What is scraping it off? Happens in service or during inept overhaul? What you absolutely don't want is for the piston seal to scrape it off when the pistons are forced back into the caliper to make room for shims or new pads. >wear of the piston bore occurs, more crud = more potential wear =increased service interval. By the piston bore I assume that you are referring to the caliper bore in which the piston seals. What wear? In service the piston never touches the caliper bore. > > WRT dust sealed calipers, as the pad wears, the piston is pushed further from > rest position. The further a piston travels to make pad/rotor contact, the > less stable the piston becomes, and from a strict leverage standpoint, the > further a piston is extended, the more the caliper tendency to twist. This > is especially true of floating calipers, but it certainly applies to fixed > calipers as well. As a caliper twists or a piston kinks, the more heat is > generated. As heat increases, bye bye dust seal,. btst many times especially > on G60's Scott, I just don't know where to start on your apparent misconceptions above, but I'll try. First, the pads are rigidly restrained from moving tangentally with the rotor by the carrier, not the caliper. There is no force resulting from braking torque exerted on the caliper! If braking force is sufficient to deflect the carrier and inasmuch as it is mounted to the bearing housing off center of the rotor, this deflection would cause an inperceptively slight twist at the business end of the carrier which is holding both the pads and the caliper. But the caliper is just going along for the ride with the pads and sees no change, twist, relative to the pad or its slides. There is no twist of the caliper relative to the pads or relative to its mounting points on the carrier! Therefore, the piston instability problem to which you allude does not exist. The piston axis is always perpindicular to its mating backing plate, therefore is always on axis with the caliper bore (unless the pad has worn tapered). This latter unusual condition may cause the piston axis to not be congruent with the caliper bore axis, but never enough such that the piston surface contacts the bore. The piston seal keeps the piston centered in the caliper bore, such that there is never contact between the piston and caliper bore and therefore no associated wear. The only heat generated in the braking system is generated by friction between the pads and the rotor. There is no other source of heat! Twists and kinks, real or unreal, do not generate heat. You have kinky pistons? Kinky pistons must be bad! > > I'm not really sure which corner you are presenting your opinions from. It > would appear that keith is speaking of aftermarket fixed caliper arrangements > with no dust shield. You are speaking of either aftermarket fixed caliper or > stock floating calipers with dust shields. IN either perspective, the less > total piston travel you have, results in ALL good things in terms of service > life, btdt. My comments are general, applicable to any braking system excepting where stated as Wilwood related. Piston travel relative to its seal interface is related only to pad wear, therefore with pad wear the seal is moving onto the clean internal piston surface, never the other way, excepting when one forces the piston back into the caliper bore (without overhaul) for shim addition or pad replacement, thus forcing the dirty external surface through the seal interface. > > When you speak of ANY aftermarket brake combination, shims are a key factor > in them. For more on this ck the archives, I went a round with MGW on this > exact point. Bottom line: The less piston travel (*however* you achieve it, > shims are the easiest way) over the life of a given pad, the less service the > caliper will require. As I demonstrated above, there is absolutelly nothing negative about outward piston movement compensating for pad wear, nor does it result in any required caliper service. Smart caliper service is performed in preperation for new pads, Not so smart caliper service must be performed as a result of caliper seal failure caused because of dirty pistons being forced into the caliper bore (obviously such seal failure is much less frequent with booted pistons than open). > Remember too, that if you gander about WRT pad > thickness vs backing plate/shims, the measures are all over the map. Close > attention should be paid to the piston extension recommendation, especially > as you clamp "non app" rotors (ie big reds on A8 rotors for example) Huh? > > Bernie, I service a LOT of aftermarket brake setups on quattros, some better > n others. But here, bottom line, I'm just not with you. With many of the > wilwood applications, or anyone going after 4x4 pot calipers, you really > *have* to do the shim routine, or you will find yourself out of master > cylinder quickly. Scott, I have never questioned, and have high respect for your service experience. But IMO, the use of shims is an old wive's tale (tail), excepting possibly in the use of unbooted pistons on dirt track, aka Wilwood. How does one run "out of master cylinder"? Are you talking about running out of pedal stroke? No, the pad to rotor clearance established by the flexing of the piston seal remains constant through out the full thickness life of the pad. No, not the brake fluid resorvoir volume, as it is sufficient to allow backing plate to rotor contact on extreemly undersized rotors without sucking air. I hope that we are still having fun. Bernie > > my .02 arbitraged thru the peso > '87 t44tqw mit big reds (dust booted) and shims > In a message dated 5/11/02 8:49:30 AM Central Daylight Time, > b.m.benz@prodigy.net writes: > > > Scott and Keith, > > My point is based on the fact that reliable 0-ring and Quad ring seals must > be protected from the ingestion of even small particles and quanities of > dirt. > That's why shocks and all industural hydraulic cylinders use rod scrapers as > the outside protection from such intrusions. Inasmuch as this road grime > cannot be cleaned from the piston surface, short of disassembly, within the > small piston to bore clearance and the sharp accute angle formed at seal to > piston interface, it will be ingested if the piston is forced back into the > bore. > > Mark's response from "Todd Howerton" > Subject: DUST SEALS indicated that Wilwood pistons are stainless steel and > he did indicate that some use Keith's "trick" in servicing pads, but hardly > a recomendation, IMO. Therefore, from a seal reliability standpoint, in the > absence of dust boots the piston should never be forced back into the > caliper without disassembly and cleaning. And there is absolutely no good > reason for doing so. A little ss hanging out in the breeze incours no harm, > but don't abuse your seals! > > Bernie > From t44tq at mindspring.com Sun May 12 20:50:11 2002 From: t44tq at mindspring.com (TM) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: Metallurgy- (was RE: brake conversion-wilwood) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c1fa0f$c22654f0$0d42fea9@newpc> Bernie- I need to comment on your one comment to Scott- Stainless steel is not 100% corrosion-proof. If you believe that all stainless steels are such, you are mistaken. I can cite specific examples, if you like: ATS-34 AUS-8 Both are stainless steels and both will corrode if exposed to direct contact w/ water, forming small rust spots on the surface of the metal, but being corrosion-resistant enough that this takes a very long time unless it is continually exposed, in which case it will corrode. Both are tool steels and often used in high-end knives due to their edge holding capability and inherent hardness. Very high nickel content stainless steels are far more corrosion-resistant, as are some rather exotic alloys such as Aermet 100. Taka From montesawong at yahoo.com Sun May 12 17:55:18 2002 From: montesawong at yahoo.com (CL Wong) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: output tests using vag-com Message-ID: <20020512235518.4628.qmail@web10106.mail.yahoo.com> Finally got my VAG-Com program working with my 200 again. The 3B motronics must be sensitive to communications timing when laptops talk to the ecu because I had to upgrade my pentium 133 Toshiba laptop to IE6.0 and disable active desktop on the win2k workstation before I was succesful. Output tests appear to work using VAG COM, though I'm not exactly sure if the ross-tech software is supposed to report anything. I definitely hear clicking of the components when I hit next item. I'll have to try the block codes next time. I have a home built vag adapter that I built for a few dollars and lots of hours with registered software. This thing really beats the blink codes. Chi __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From b.m.benz at prodigy.net Sun May 12 18:20:47 2002 From: b.m.benz at prodigy.net (Bernie Benz) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: Metallurgy- (was RE: brake conversion-wilwood) In-Reply-To: <000001c1fa0f$c22654f0$0d42fea9@newpc> Message-ID: Thanks Taka, I know that, but thanks for the info. I suspect that Wilwood may have used a high nickel 300 series, but tough to fab. Anyway, the term stainless is application specific for us novices. Bernie > From: "TM" > Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 19:50:11 -0400 > To: "'Bernie Benz'" , > Cc: "'200q20V mailing list'" <200q20v@audifans.com> > Subject: Metallurgy- (was RE: brake conversion-wilwood) > > Bernie- > I need to comment on your one comment to Scott- > Stainless steel is not 100% corrosion-proof. If you > believe that all stainless steels are such, you are mistaken. > > I can cite specific examples, if you like: > ATS-34 > AUS-8 > > Both are stainless steels and both will corrode if exposed to direct > contact w/ water, forming small rust spots on the surface of the metal, > but being corrosion-resistant enough that this takes a very long time > unless it is continually exposed, in which case it will corrode. > > Both are tool steels and often used in high-end knives due to their edge > holding capability and inherent hardness. > > Very high nickel content stainless steels are far more > corrosion-resistant, > as are some rather exotic alloys such as Aermet 100. > > Taka > From t44tq at mindspring.com Sun May 12 21:27:25 2002 From: t44tq at mindspring.com (TM) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: Metallurgy- (was RE: brake conversion-wilwood) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000301c1fa14$f50e75a0$0d42fea9@newpc> Bernie- Okay- I wasn't sure if you knew this. I just don't like to propagate the myth that stainless steel is corrosion-proof. If one really wanted to make a steel piece nearly corrosion-proof and extremely durable, all you need to do is coat it in Tenifer. The downside is that I have heard second-hand that the treatment process is very environmentally-unfriendly, making this type of coating undoable in the US. Taka From b.m.benz at prodigy.net Sun May 12 18:43:17 2002 From: b.m.benz at prodigy.net (Bernie Benz) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: output tests using vag-com In-Reply-To: <20020512235518.4628.qmail@web10106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: But does it give more info than the blink codes, or allow for more output tests? Bernie > From: CL Wong > Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 16:55:18 -0700 (PDT) > To: 200q <200q20v@audifans.com> > Subject: Re: output tests using vag-com > > Finally got my VAG-Com program working with my 200 > again. > > The 3B motronics must be sensitive to communications > timing when laptops talk to the ecu because I had to > upgrade my pentium 133 Toshiba laptop to IE6.0 and > disable active desktop on the win2k workstation before > I was succesful. > > Output tests appear to work using VAG COM, though I'm > not exactly sure if the ross-tech software is supposed > to report anything. I definitely hear clicking of the > components when I hit next item. > > I'll have to try the block codes next time. > > I have a home built vag adapter that I built for a few > dollars and lots of hours with registered software. > This thing really beats the blink codes. > > Chi > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience > http://launch.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From knotnook at traverse.com Sun May 12 23:52:22 2002 From: knotnook at traverse.com (Kneale Brownson) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: Wanted: advice on steering rack In-Reply-To: <20020512203527.44974.qmail@web12802.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020512225204.00c31a90@traverse.com> -- http://www.jorgenauto.com/ At 01:35 PM 05/12/2002 -0700, Dave Haupt wrote: >Today I was about to replace the high pressure >pump-to-rack hose I acquired a week ago. As I began >moving parts out of the way, I spied the dastardly >problem. The driver's side boot is torn in two. >Pentosin sludge all over the place, although it's not >spraying. It's all landing on the transmission, going >through about a pint every two weeks of very little >driving. > >Seems to me there shouldn't even be Pentosin inside >where that boot protects, so it suggests an internal >leak. > >Did I get that right? > >So, I needs a new rack. > >The write-ups on Chris Miller's page, plus the >Bentley, give me all the information required for me >to know I should not try this myself. > >So, looking for BTDT on getting a mechanic to do it. >Are there common mistakes they make? Is there a >preferred source for the racks? Blau gets $250, any >reason not to use theirs? Anything else a mechanic >ought to do, as long as the rack is out? > >Is the task possibly easier than I think? > >TIA, > >Dave >1989 200Q 10V sedan 148k miles >Santa Rosa, CA > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience >http://launch.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >200q20v mailing list >200q20v@audifans.com >http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v -- From montesawong at yahoo.com Mon May 13 05:28:49 2002 From: montesawong at yahoo.com (CL Wong) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:00 2003 Subject: output tests using vag-com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020513112849.80778.qmail@web10104.mail.yahoo.com> It provides text descriptions for blink code related faults and I will let the list know in the near future about wether or not the channel values work as noted in Bentley page D440-1. Resetting of the airbag light alone is worthwhile for me as some electrical anomoly triggers a fault in the airbag system atleast once year. Next time I'll have to actually read what the fault is before I reset it... I seem to think it was a bit too general to help track down the problem though. --- Bernie Benz wrote: > But does it give more info than the blink codes, or > allow for more output > tests? > > Bernie > > > From: CL Wong > > Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 16:55:18 -0700 (PDT) > > To: 200q <200q20v@audifans.com> > > Subject: Re: output tests using vag-com > > > > Finally got my VAG-Com program working with my 200 > > again. > > > > The 3B motronics must be sensitive to > communications > > timing when laptops talk to the ecu because I had > to > > upgrade my pentium 133 Toshiba laptop to IE6.0 and > > disable active desktop on the win2k workstation > before > > I was succesful. > > > > Output tests appear to work using VAG COM, though > I'm > > not exactly sure if the ross-tech software is > supposed > > to report anything. I definitely hear clicking of > the > > components when I hit next item. > > > > I'll have to try the block codes next time. > > > > I have a home built vag adapter that I built for a > few > > dollars and lots of hours with registered > software. > > This thing really beats the blink codes. > > > > Chi > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience > > http://launch.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > > 200q20v mailing list > > 200q20v@audifans.com > > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From michael at prospeedmotorsport.com Mon May 13 10:29:26 2002 From: michael at prospeedmotorsport.com (Michael (Prospeed Motorsport)) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: brake conversions for 200q20v - wilwood (& I'm gone) In-Reply-To: <156.db6b045.2a0dc2af@aol.com> Message-ID: <008301c1fa8a$958385a0$0200000a@porsche> First Keith, if you make parts (brake kits) for Audis, you have a vested interest to dispute me. Second, on eh Winston Cup circuit the dominate caliper is Brembo. Pro Systems, the largest Brembo racing distributor in the world provides caliper/rotors and service to approximately 41 Winston Cup teams. The other 9 teams are running Alcon calipers and rotors. No Wilwoods in sight!! On the F1 scene, the dominate caliper is AP which was purchased last year by Brembo. The Wilwood calipers just aren't in the same league as the other major brands. There are many reports of the difference between them and the majors. The most frequent report I hear is you can feel the flex in the caliper under braking. The Wilwoods are used where cost is a MAJOR issue and the sacrifice in quality is less critical. When the Wilwood 6 piston caliper retails for $377 and the Brembo is $3000. As to the manufacturer recommendations . . . Maybe I should have stated the major caliper manufacturers HIGHLY recommend NOT using a racing style (no dust boot) caliper for a street application. They DO NOT say the say thing about xdrilled rotors. I do know about brakes. It is basically the only thing I do. I would NEVER recommend or sell a racing style caliper to a customer for a street application. You are certainly free to do so if you choose. BTW, I just saw/read some of the follow up posts to this thread from over the weekend . . . Scott did not "...serve (me) a plate of humble pie" I just gave up on the thread. Scott's techniques of shims, while mechanically effective, go against the practices of every major racing brake service provider out there. (Pro Systems, TrueChoice, North American Race Parts, etc.) IF you have to use shims to make the pads fit correctly, then the system was not engineered correctly in the first place. I'm outa here . . . Every time I try to offer some expert help on brake systems and the right vs. wrong way of doing things, someone takes to me to task. Unlike Scott and others, other than a few (very few) 968 pieces, the only thing I do 50+ hrs a wk is work on calipers and brake systems. I speak on a regular basis with the engineers that work every weekend with Winston Cup, IRL, CART and other racing series. I get my info from both those folks and my first hand experience. Just because some of you don't like the truth, because you sold your customers improperly engineered or jury rigged caliper/rotor combinations, and/or are selling components that were NEVER designed for a specific (street) application isn't my fault. And doesn't change the facts of the case. If you want brake info, contact me directly as I will not be on this list any longer. Michael G. Wachholz Prospeed Motorsports 952.249.1169 office 651.699.3098 fax 1735 Norfolk Avenue Saint Paul, MN 55116 mailto:michael@prospeedmotorsport.com www.prospeedmotorsport.com >snip< > > > None of the major caliper manufacturers, Brembo, AP, > Alcon, Lockheed, Girling, etc. make or recommend using a caliper without > dust boots on a street car. > > They don't recommend using cross-drilled rotors for the > street either, as a safety issue. Wanna take a poll of how > many listers convienently disregard that particular item? > > > There is also a reason why the Wilwoods are so inexpensive > . . . They are not in the same league as Brembo, AP or Alcon. You get what you > > pay for. > > Do you have test data to back that up? FYI, the dominate > brake in all levels of NASCAR is Wilwood. The top classes > have a minimum race weight of 3800lbs, are limited to a 15" > wheel, and the hand built chassis can cost over $100,000. > These cars race on road courses, superspeedways, and 1/2 mile > ovals for up to 600 miles. Now with those requirements why > would owners like Roush, Yates, Penske, and Childress, who > can afford any brake in the world, equip their cars with an > inferior product? Subject $100,000 race cars to hazard to > save a few hundred dollars? Put the safety of drivers at risk > for the same reason? Please explain this, I'm dying to hear > your expert opinion on the subject. > > > FWIW, you can find used Porsche S4 calipers for $400/pr. And there > > are many suppliers of aftermarket rotors that are 32 mm (1.25") > > thick. > > > > I don't make anything for Audis, so no vested interest here. > > I do make things for Audi's and I dont put my customers at > risk with inferior products. If you dont like what I offer, > fine, but please refrain from making uninformed and unfounded > statements about a product which you obviously know every > little about. > > Keith > > > > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v > From copley at SNET.Net Mon May 13 11:59:56 2002 From: copley at SNET.Net (copley one) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: too bad Message-ID: <3CDFE2FB.C3D983F3@snet.net> << If you want brake info, contact me directly as I will not be on this list any longer. Michael G. Wachholz Prospeed Motorsports >> what a bummer. really gonna miss that expertise. pk From dans at audifans.com Mon May 13 12:33:04 2002 From: dans at audifans.com (Dan Simoes) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: retrofitting a 3 spoke sport wheel Message-ID: <3CDFDCB0.9D16242F@audifans.com> Some of the S4 people have done this on their 92-94 S4s. I will peruse the family pictures, but has anyone done this on a 91 200? From t44tq at mindspring.com Mon May 13 12:41:56 2002 From: t44tq at mindspring.com (TM) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: retrofitting a 3 spoke sport wheel In-Reply-To: <3CDFDCB0.9D16242F@audifans.com> Message-ID: <000a01c1fa94$b6bb5a40$0d42fea9@newpc> Ingo has done it. There's a guy in Germany who has done it as well. Taka From DasWolfen at aol.com Mon May 13 13:53:30 2002 From: DasWolfen at aol.com (DasWolfen@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: too bad Message-ID: <57.b60dd70.2a11498a@aol.com> In a message dated 5/13/02 10:59:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, copley@SNET.Net writes: > << If you want brake info, contact me directly as I will not be on this > > list any longer. > > Michael G. Wachholz > Prospeed Motorsports >> > I appoligized off-list for my part in letting the discussion get outta hand. This is an example of the downside of list (one of the few) discussions. So many opinions held by people with so much experience can tend to bring out some pretty strong postings. I personally have become very good at making an ass outta myself. Keith From ingo at waratap.com Mon May 13 13:56:36 2002 From: ingo at waratap.com (Ingo D. Rautenberg) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: retrofitting a 3 spoke sport wheel References: <3CDFDCB0.9D16242F@audifans.com> Message-ID: <003d01c1fa9f$252aa3a0$9865fea9@ingo> I have done it --but in this case it's the old (ur)quattro coupe 20v style steering wheel. It came with the hubthat fits Audi 80/90 und Coupe Typ 89,Audi 100/200 Typ 44 and Audi 100Typ C4 (UrS4/S6). So I can't use it in the Urq as yet. The one I believe you're looking for is the one used on the S2, which I believe correlates to Coupe type 89 and hence should work. Or are you thinking Airbag version? -Ingo '91 200q20v...Slightly modified '83 Urquattro ('90 v8q RIP) http://hometown.aol.com/quattringo/index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Simoes" To: "200" <200q20v@audifans.com> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 11:33 AM Subject: retrofitting a 3 spoke sport wheel > Some of the S4 people have done this on their 92-94 S4s. > I will peruse the family pictures, but has anyone done this on a 91 200? > > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002 From brett at cloud9.net Mon May 13 14:03:00 2002 From: brett at cloud9.net (Brett Dikeman) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: brake conversions for 200q20v - wilwood (& I'm gone) In-Reply-To: <008301c1fa8a$958385a0$0200000a@porsche> References: <008301c1fa8a$958385a0$0200000a@porsche> Message-ID: Keith said: > > Do you have test data to back that up? FYI, the dominate >> brake in all levels of NASCAR is Wilwood. The top classes >> have a minimum race weight of 3800lbs, are limited to a 15" >> wheel, and the hand built chassis can cost over $100,000. >> These cars race on road courses, superspeedways, and 1/2 mile >> ovals for up to 600 miles. Now with those requirements why >> would owners like Roush, Yates, Penske, and Childress, who >> can afford any brake in the world, equip their cars with an >> inferior product? Subject $100,000 race cars to hazard to >> save a few hundred dollars? Put the safety of drivers at risk >> for the same reason? Please explain this, I'm dying to hear > > your expert opinion on the subject. >> Has anyone ever looked at the complete -crap- that Nascar drivers and teams recommend? They recommend, wear, drink, and eat ANYTHING that pays the bills. NASCAR fans are so numerous that NASCAR merchandising and sponsorship is an ENORMOUS business...the sport has turned into a bunch of 200mph billboards. When I hit a NASCAR race on TV once by accident, they were showing computer generated #'s/sponsor logos above each car! To quote NASCAR for safety/reliability is hilarious. NASCAR started as a bunch of moonshine runners. Back in the early days, NASCAR went through drivers like a chain smoker goes through cigarettes...and even recently, it took the death of a major player to get new safety rules into the books(and I believe most teams didn't do squat until nascar changed the rulebook, but I could be wrong; I don't exactly follow this sort of stuff.) Same thing to say that NASCAR's equipment selections are "the best." Those people who make engine additives get the nascar teams to sign on. Sure, they -may- actually use it, since the engine's getting tossed in the trash after a few races anyway...how many average joes take out their engine every 2000 miles and dump it in the trash and install a new one? I change my -oil- every 5000 miles. NASCAR teams change CARS quicker than that. NASCAR may race the ovals for 600 miles and blah blah blah...but they do so on track surfaces which bear no resemblance to real world driving...and everything on the car gets stripped down. I'm guessing those calipers are benched after every race, thoroughly examined for damage, new seals, etc etc. If something improves performance on-track but needs more maintenance at the end of the day, so be it. Do you strip down your brakes after 600 miles? I don't. I pulled my rear brakes apart after 60,000+ miles(that would be 100x longer, thanks very much.) I live in NE where roads are in horrible shape, I've got some dirt roads near the house I used to take on a daily basis...and we've got lovely things like road salt etc. I don't know too many nascar vehicles that operate on sanded+salted slushy roads. One piston was cosmetically scratched(fixed with some very light sanding with 600-grit paper followed by a metal polish) and had some sort of paste residue which needed removal...but neither was rusted(oops, thats right, I forgot, Audi pistons are chromed, not stainless) or damaged beyond repair; the dust boots did their jobs. Did I mention that one piston was extended quite a bit because the rotor+pads were both severely worn? Now, for the icing on the cake, Keith. Have you ever taken to studying the manufacturer's recommendations for the systems you're supposedly expert in, after giving Michael a lashing? Apparently not. "CALIPER REBUILDING: If you race on dirt or drag race on a weekly basis throughout the year, you should disassemble your calipers mid-season and inspect the caliper seals for excessive wear or hardness caused by heat. Asphalt racers generally experience more heat and should do inspections more frequently, especially after racing on a track where high temperatures are reached. NASCAR's Winston Cup, Busch GN, Craftsman Truck and Road Race teams usually replace caliper seals after each race to ensure proper disc brake performance. Disassembly and replacement of the seals is a simple process and can prevent catastrophic brake failure. " (pasted from http://www.wilwood.com/products/calipers/calipertech.asp) Furthermore, I can't help but notice that Wilwood continuously mentions that they make RACING products throughout their website. Take a look at: http://www.wilwood.com/products/calipers/calipers.asp Seems that they go out of their way to talk about applications in various types of racing...and they don't do a whole lot of talking about daily drivers -anywhere- on the site. Everyone I've ever heard about talk about Wilwoods has said the same thing: cheaper, lighter, but high maintenance and for those that do little more than drive the car on track and have the time to do regular brake overhauls. Brett -- ---- "They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin http://www.users.cloud9.net/~brett/ From Djdawson2 at aol.com Mon May 13 14:04:15 2002 From: Djdawson2 at aol.com (Djdawson2@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: brake conversion-wilwood Message-ID: <183.83f4fc1.2a114c0f@aol.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] In a message dated 5/11/2002 9:29:08 PM Mountain Daylight Time, QSHIPQ@aol.com writes: > Close > attention should be paid to the piston extension recommendation, especially > as you clamp "non app" rotors (ie big reds on A8 rotors for example) > I was just talking to someone about this conversion. Some PO has converted my car to G60 stuff, and from what I understand I can put on late A8 rotors with "Big Reds" using RS2 caliper adapters. Is this true? Are these all the parts needed to do the job? Is this a good conversion? TIA Dave From dans at audifans.com Mon May 13 14:17:06 2002 From: dans at audifans.com (Dan Simoes) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: thule rack recommendations for 200 wagon Message-ID: <3CDFF512.4E30233@audifans.com> As some of you know, I picked up a 91 200tq wagon recently. Anyone know the current model Thule rack/feet that will clip on to the stock roof rails? Their website was not helpful for the 91, but they list the 751 model for the 95 A6, which I assume is almost identical. From QSHIPQ at aol.com Mon May 13 15:25:11 2002 From: QSHIPQ at aol.com (QSHIPQ@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: brake conversion-wilwood - the long and the nerdy Message-ID: <119.1170c65a.2a115f07@aol.com> Bernie: Comments inserted >First, as a pad wears, more of the piston > is exposed to the elements in a non sealed caliper. This means (SS or not) > that surface rust forms on the piston, BB>>If rust forms on a ss piston, it's not stainless. That's Wilwood's problem. Not with you bernie. There are several references wrt ss that don't support your statement at all. I haven't seen a piston yet in a caliper that is "immune" to rust. That said, below I change rust to "crud" cuz salt has a way of taking the best of the metals, and turning them to crap accumulators. > the further the pad wears, the more > rust area will form. As this crud gets scraped off, >>What is scraping it off? Happens in service or during inept overhaul? Bernie as a pad wears, you can add shims behind it. BEFORE a pad wears, you can add a shim behind it. I say add enough shims BEFORE a pad wears so that the pad doesn't touch the rotor in the rest position. This can be applied to G60's (that's one THICK pad), big reds, or wilwoods. You keep speaking of "service". "Attention" would be a better word. You can shim before servicing any caliper. WRT shims, we are speaking of optimizing piston travel (less is better), not rebuilding or "servicing" the caliper, in fact, not even taking it off the strut. >>What you absolutely don't want is for the piston seal to scrape it off when >>the pistons are forced back into the caliper to make room for shims or new >>pads. Chickens before eggs Bernie. Think track event, or think BEFORE the pad has ever touched a rotor. Or think before "accumulated" crud. >wear of the piston bore occurs, more crud = more potential wear =increased service interval. BB>>By the piston bore I assume that you are referring to the caliper bore in >>which the piston seals. What wear? In service the piston never touches the >>caliper bore. I'll chuckle at that statement. Any piston (especially G60's) can not only "touch" the cylinder bore, but score it. Those are the ones I core to Napa :). When calipers twist and pistons are hyperextended, all bets are off. In service, the only thing attempting to keep a piston from hitting a bore is a rubber seal. BB>>Scott, I just don't know where to start on your apparent misconceptions >>above, but I'll try. OK >>First, the pads are rigidly restrained from moving tangentally with the >>rotor by the carrier, not the caliper. er, the carrier in a fixed caliper, IS the caliper by definition. Your statement only applies to a floating caliper arrangement. > There is no force resulting from >braking torque exerted on the caliper! If braking force is sufficient to >deflect the carrier and inasmuch as it is mounted to the bearing housing off >center of the rotor, this deflection would cause an inperceptively slight >twist at the business end of the carrier which is holding both the pads and >the caliper. But the caliper is just going along for the ride with the pads >and sees no change, twist, relative to the pad or its slides. There is no >twist of the caliper relative to the pads or relative to its mounting points >on the carrier! Again, you are thinking in terms of "floating" but even there the thinking is not quite correct. The forces on a pad are NOT even, and the stresses on calipers includes designing anti-clamshell tendencies of the caliper bridge. One area where Posrche found Brembos stock application to be lacking (used larger and better grade bolts). >Therefore, the piston instability problem to which you allude does not >exist. The piston axis is always perpindicular to its mating backing plate, >therefore is always on axis with the caliper bore (unless the pad has worn >tapered). Bernie There IS drag of the pad against the disk which tends to "cock" the piston in its bore so the piston to bore clearance, thermal coefficients of expansion between piston and caliper as well as seal design and location are crucial. If you look at some of the SAE articles published on thermal coefficients of expansion (try 1999-01-0483 - Numerical Prediction of Brake Fluid Temperature Rise During Braking and Heat Soaking, or 2000-01-0445 - An Analytical Method to Predict Thermal Distortion of a Brake Rotor or 942086 - Evaluation fo the Energy input in Pad and Disc During Brake Application, or 880256 - Approaches to the Thermal Modelling of Disc Brakes), you can see that piston and bore clearances are affected by temperature greatly. >> This latter unusual condition may cause the piston axis to not be >>congruent with the caliper bore axis, but never enough such that the piston >>surface contacts the bore. The piston seal keeps the piston centered in the >>caliper bore, such that there is never contact between the piston and >>caliper bore and therefore no associated wear. Opinion Bernie, not supported by fact. Thermal loads can get high enough that piston s can touch the cylinder wall, it happens all the time with G60's at track events. Look, if you read some of the papers above, you will see that typical "extreme" heat soaking occurs in under 30 minutes of brake heat cycling (that's about the length of 1 quattro club run group). Once that temperature gets high enough, all bets are off. What you also find is that temperatures of aluminum bodied calipers with semi metallic pads generate the highest "extreme" heat (compared to iron calipers with SM or organic pads OR aluminum calipers with organic pads. >>The only heat generated in the braking system is generated by friction >>between the pads and the rotor. There is no other source of heat! Twists >>and kinks, real or unreal, do not generate heat. You have kinky pistons? >>Kinky pistons must be bad! A true statement, there is no other *source* for heat. But the resultant heat acuumlation can cause higher heat, and can be measured in the caliper/rotor/fluid/piston. What you find with "cocked" pistons (hey, that's the term SAE uses) or "overextended pistons", is that the ability of the piston to retract becomes very high. That causes more heat to build up, which leads to premature failure of dust seals, as well as the ability of the piston seal to properly align the piston in the bore. >>My comments are general, applicable to any braking system excepting where >>stated as Wilwood related. Piston travel relative to its seal interface is >>related only to pad wear, therefore with pad wear the seal is moving onto >>the clean internal piston surface, never the other way, excepting when one >>forces the piston back into the caliper bore (without overhaul) for shim >>addition or pad replacement, thus forcing the dirty external surface through >>the seal interface. Hmm, I don't read a lot of application, only theory here Bernie. The optimal pad in terms of heat, is a new one. As you move a pad closer to the rotor (wear), the heat *thru* the backing plate gets higher (see -0483 above). Without question, adding shims to 2/3 worn pad (especially heat reflecting or grate type) will reduce the temps at the piston and caliper compared to a pad with full service on it (a conclusion in the paper) > When you speak of ANY aftermarket brake combination, shims are a key factor > in them. For more on this ck the archives, I went a round with MGW on this > exact point. Bottom line: The less piston travel (*however* you achieve it, > shims are the easiest way) over the life of a given pad, the less service the > caliper will require. >>As I demonstrated above, there is absolutelly nothing negative about outward >>piston movement compensating for pad wear, nor does it result in any >>required caliper service. No Bernie -0483 "Case 3: Brake system with aluminum caliper and two thirds worn NAO (organic) friction material" "As friction materials wear out, more frictional heat transfers to the caliper resulting in high brake fluid temperature and hence the brake system with worn friction pad should be considered" Table 2 shows the operating fluid temps increased by 50C at 30minutes, and Max fluid temp during heat soak increased by 53C to 147C (150c is the wet boiling point). If you look at SM pads, a new pad is already over the 150C mark. >>Smart caliper service is performed in preperation >>for new pads, Not so smart caliper service must be performed as a result >>of caliper seal failure caused because of dirty pistons being forced into >>the caliper bore (obviously such seal failure is much less frequent with >>booted pistons than open). Me, I'd be pulling the boots off and replacing them before and after track events. It's not "dirty" pistons we are speaking of. It's worn pads and heat Bernie. >>Scott, I have never questioned, and have high respect for your service >>experience. But IMO, the use of shims is an old wive's tale (tail), >>excepting possibly in the use of unbooted pistons on dirt track, aka >>Wilwood. I routinely shim booted piston calipers Bernie, even porsche does with the Big Reds (stock application). It's NOT a wives tale, it's sound and good practice over the "service life" of any caliper pad. >>How does one run "out of master cylinder"? Are you talking about running >>out of pedal stroke? No, the pad to rotor clearance established by the >>flexing of the piston seal remains constant through out the full thickness >>life of the pad. No, not the brake fluid resorvoir volume, as it is >>sufficient to allow backing plate to rotor contact on extreemly undersized >>rotors without sucking air. Bernie, you can easily run out of brake master volume. Your above only holds true of equal total piston area. As it the case with most 4 pot brakes, accomodating the front conversions is *usually* adequate, accomodating 4 x 4 pot usually isn't. It's strickly a surface area/volume of fluid equation. >>I hope that we are still having fun. Bernie, I enjoy reading your opinions, but here, the documentation supports little of your opinned theory. Even after the multiple reads, Keith Tackett appears to be closer to practice *and* theory. Shim away, I say. Scott Justusson t44tqw big reds with shims From thequattroking at yahoo.com Mon May 13 13:21:18 2002 From: thequattroking at yahoo.com (Shayne) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: Modine Radiator Results In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi- Well, I picked up the radiator. Modine has gone plastic on us. Tanks were plastic. WITHOUT the nipples. Bummer. I called Modine to tell them them mislisted the radiator. Apparently I am not the only one who was hoping for a metal tanked radiator to modify. Someone else had called just a few minutes before me with the same complaint. So, looks like my $119 radiator deal is not such a deal. I bought the factory one for $225. Oh well. Shayne P. Currently, Spokane, WA. June, Oakland, CA. Enough Audis to give plenty of headaches. Parting: 1972 Mercedes Benz 280 SE 4.5 From rguzz at mindspring.com Mon May 13 16:24:13 2002 From: rguzz at mindspring.com (RGuzz) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: Scrambled systems check Message-ID: <01F4F15F-66A7-11D6-85F9-00039345196C@mindspring.com> My systems check window sends me scrambled messages, no longer clear or even decipherable. I assume the receiving unit behind the window is bad. Every Audi I've ever had eventually did this. Is this an expensive fix? Thanks, RG From thequattroking at yahoo.com Mon May 13 13:36:29 2002 From: thequattroking at yahoo.com (Shayne) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: Scrambled systems check In-Reply-To: <01F4F15F-66A7-11D6-85F9-00039345196C@mindspring.com> Message-ID: I have had this happen three times. On the 200 there was a wire that shorted out in of all crazy places the front dome light. In the S4 and V8, the connectors needed to be cleaned on the back of the dash. HTH, Shayne P. Currently, Spokane, WA. June, Oakland, CA. Enough Audis to give plenty of headaches. Parting: 1972 Mercedes Benz 280 SE 4.5 > From: RGuzz > Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 15:24:13 -0400 > To: Audi 200 20v Mailing List <200q20v@audifans.com> > Subject: Scrambled systems check > > My systems check window sends me scrambled messages, no longer clear or > even decipherable. I assume the receiving unit behind the window is bad. > Every Audi I've ever had eventually did this. Is this an expensive fix? > Thanks, > RG > > > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From nhvonhof at attbi.com Mon May 13 15:54:33 2002 From: nhvonhof at attbi.com (Neil Vonhof) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: Interesting Observation Re: Steering References: Message-ID: <3CE03619.FD44898C@attbi.com> For the last 4 or 5 months I have noticed an audible groaning sound coming from the steering (pump or rack, I'm not sure which) when turning the steering wheel a couple of turns left or right while stopped (not the sound made when you turn the steering wheel until it stops and still keep pressure on it). Also, I began noticing that sometimes the steering would seem extraordinarily stiff, kind of like it might be if you tried to turn the wheel with the engine off, but not that extreme. This was especially noticeable when slowing to a stop at an intersection, then turning the wheel to make a left or right turn. I would occasionally check the reservoir and the level seemed fine; somewhere between the Max. and Min. level. I must have a very small leak because slowly over time I did notice the level creeping toward the Min. mark. Another inspection this weekend revealed that the level had finally reached the Min. mark so I decided it was time to add fluid. I've had the car for two years and this is the first time I've added Pentosin. So, I filled it to the Max. line and most unexpectedly and much to my surprise all of the symptoms described above are gone. Totally smooth steering, no groaning/moaning sounds (from the car guys, from the car) and no more hard steering. I am surprised because I would assume that the system should function normally at any fluid level between min & max. It's surprising that 2 to 3 inches of fluid in the reservoir would make such a profound difference in functionality. I guess the message here is to keep that reservoir filled to the Max. line for best performance. The one question this brings up: is this whole thing an indicator of possible serious failure in the near future? Any BTDT on this? Neil Vonhof '91 200q20v Sedan, 140,000 miles Seattle From maximum at weetamoo.com Mon May 13 16:14:16 2002 From: maximum at weetamoo.com (maximum@weetamoo.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: Value of our vehicles (long) Message-ID: <20020513151421.29188.h023.c001.wm@mail.weetamoo.com.criticalpath.net> I had a similar issue with my first Audi..an old automatic 5000. I was in an accident that was not my fault and that raised my ire to get what I felt was due me. It was a battle, but I did well and it was worth the time I invested. 1. Look at the appraisal and see if you can find anything that will take away credibility from the adjuster. In my case, the adjuster said the tires were worn out. In my documentation I noted and provided a receipt for tires with a treadwear rating of over 300 that were only 3 months old. "If the adjuster thought the tires were worn out, this brings into question what else he missed, blah, blah, blah..." Look for something you can work with like that. 2. Car is in average condition. Provide documentation that might show otherwise. Note that NADA values are based upon AVERAGE retail, wholesale, trade-in values, on cars in good condition. Do anything you can to argue that yours would have commanded a premium on the open market before it got whacked. Provide documentation. Pictures, bills, etc. Maganzine articles, Playboy pictorials with buxom blonds strewn about the hood...anything! 3. Note that NADA values for cars with high mileage take deductions based on an AVERAGE depreciation. Note that this car is not a Hyundai and that it is normal for these cars to run well in excess of 250,000 miles. A "standard" deduction for mileage should be adjusted...keep whining! 4. Find examples of cars for sale or that have sold recently. Ask anyone but Peter Schulz and Dan Simoes what they paid for theirs. Try the Autotrader for documentation on line. 5. Bitch and moan, but be as professional as possible. 6. If they have your car on their lot, call AAA and get it the hell out of there immediately! When and if you do, have it towed to a repair shop that will provide you with a PRIVATE (YOU PAY) estimate which is quite often going to be lower than the adjuster's estimate. See if they will store the hulk for free while you try to battle with your insurance company. 7. Tell them you work in high tech and can't afford the hit ;-) 8. Remember that as far as I know that no car can be devalued to less than 70% of its NADA value for high mileage. Remember also that most insurance companies I know of will total a car whose cost to repair exceeds 70% of its value. Get the value of the car BEFORE the repair estimate or be prepared to battle the value up to 142% of its cost to repair. IE: $5000 repair means you must have a value of at least $7142. Here's how my case turned out. I provided enough documentation and argument that the insurance company agreed to let me get three quotes from reputable dealers on their letterhead. I provided the dealers with as much information as I could and let them know that if I got a good settlement that I might be back to buy a new (used) car from them. It couldn't hurt to help them see things your way if you know what I mean. Two dealers let me write up the info and then they just put it on their letterhead for me. My insurance company used my quotes and their quote (I think they threw the high one out or something) and averaged them. They still totaled the car based on their estimate of repair. I, however, got a much lower quote from my own shop where the car was now already located. I took the check less $500 for the remains of the car and used the check to fix it. Just for fun, repeat the conversation that I had which went something like this: Me: So you've totaled my car Them: Yes Me: So my car is worth nothing now Them: Yes Me: So, if my car isn't worth anything, how come you're charging me $500 for it? Them: That's the salvage value Me: But, you just told me that my car is worthless Them: No, there's a salvage value of $500 Me: So it IS worth something Them: Well, yes Me: Will you folks kindly make up your mind? Them: But, Me: Nevermind, I just had to ask The car when finished was better than it had been, and ran an additional 125,000 miles (over the 119,000 it already had) and I pocketed the extra $700 left over. I did however wind up with a salvage title (law required it). This was just about the worst way to make 700 bucks I can think of (besides being an underpaid child hooker for Boston area priests) but at least the car was saved. Good Luck!!!! Paul Royal aka 20RoT From maximum at weetamoo.com Mon May 13 16:31:11 2002 From: maximum at weetamoo.com (maximum@weetamoo.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: ALSO :Value of our vehicles (2) Message-ID: <20020513153112.29637.h023.c001.wm@mail.weetamoo.com.criticalpath.net> >>My insurance company has requested I contact a dealer to determine the >>value of my avant, the local dealer here (Sunset Porsche Audi) doesn't >>want any part of trying to establish the value of a car they wouldn't >>even want to put on their lot. Anybody got any advice??? Almost forgot. Tell the d-bags at ol' Sunset Porsche Audi to get firmly bent. What the Sam Hill is wrong with them? Too bizzy to help you? It's not like they're on the hook for anything. If I were you I'd march right over there next time you've spent the day churning your compost heap and sit your smelly north western hard workin' butt right down in one o' them nice cushy nine one one's and lick the guy's neck tie when he bends over and asks if he can help you. Don't forget to have a big ol' plate o' Boston Baked and sharp cheese before you go. What the F---, Over? Royal aka 20RoT From MartinGG at aetna.com Mon May 13 20:28:15 2002 From: MartinGG at aetna.com (Martin, Gary G) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: Interesting Observation Re: Steering Message-ID: <190DB1C7C8ADD51188890002A53F528E4408DE@midp-exch-001.aetna.com> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. -- When I did a fluid change on my S4, I found out that the hydraulic system really pumps a LOT of fluid quickly through that reservoir. I assume the 200 is the same. So, maybe the low fluid level allows some air to get into the system? Just a guess... Gary Martin 91 200 TQA 94 UrS4 -----Original Message----- From: Neil Vonhof [mailto:nhvonhof@attbi.com] Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 5:55 PM To: 200q20v@audifans.com Subject: Interesting Observation Re: Steering the symptoms described above are gone. Totally smooth steering, no groaning/moaning sounds (from the car guys, from the car) and no more hard steering. I am surprised because I would assume that the system should function normally at any fluid level between min & max. It's surprising that 2 to 3 inches of fluid in the reservoir would make such a profound difference in functionality. I guess the message here is to keep that reservoir filled to the Max. line for best performance. The one question this brings up: is this whole thing an indicator of possible serious failure in the near future? Any BTDT on this? Neil Vonhof '91 200q20v Sedan, 140,000 miles Seattle _______________________________________________ 200q20v mailing list 200q20v@audifans.com http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v This e-mail, including attachments, is intended for the exclusive use of the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential or privileged information. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or his or her authorized agent, the reader is hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is prohibited. If you think that you have received this e-mail in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail of the error and then delete this e-mail immediately. Thank you. Aetna Inc. -- [ Content of type application/ms-tnef deleted ] From MartinGG at aetna.com Mon May 13 20:34:11 2002 From: MartinGG at aetna.com (Martin, Gary G) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: thule rack recommendations for 200 wagon Message-ID: <190DB1C7C8ADD51188890002A53F528E4408DF@midp-exch-001.aetna.com> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. -- I don't think you will find one. I went through this same search. A rack that will fit, and I forgot the name, something like Orvis??, was available from a place in Canada. I already had a Thule system, so I just got the feet that hook onto the roof, and that works. The Thule bars just clear the built in roof rack rails. HTH Gary 91 200TQA 94 UrS4 -----Original Message----- From: Dan Simoes [mailto:dans@audifans.com] Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 1:17 PM To: quattro@audifans.com; 200 Subject: thule rack recommendations for 200 wagon As some of you know, I picked up a 91 200tq wagon recently. Anyone know the current model Thule rack/feet that will clip on to the stock roof rails? Their website was not helpful for the 91, but they list the 751 model for the 95 A6, which I assume is almost identical. _______________________________________________ 200q20v mailing list 200q20v@audifans.com http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v This e-mail, including attachments, is intended for the exclusive use of the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential or privileged information. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or his or her authorized agent, the reader is hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is prohibited. If you think that you have received this e-mail in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail of the error and then delete this e-mail immediately. Thank you. Aetna Inc. -- [ Content of type application/ms-tnef deleted ] From charlie at istari.com Mon May 13 19:21:34 2002 From: charlie at istari.com (Charles Baer) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: Wanted: advice on steering rack Message-ID: <3CE0588E.6DE7F1AC@istari.com> Put a Jorgen in a little over a year ago, sofarsogood... Charlie > -----Original Message----- > From: Kneale Brownson [mailto:knotnook@traverse.com] > Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2002 8:52 PM > To: Dave Haupt; 200q20v@audifans.com > Subject: Re: Wanted: advice on steering rack > > > -- > http://www.jorgenauto.com/ > > At 01:35 PM 05/12/2002 -0700, Dave Haupt wrote: > > >Today I was about to replace the high pressure > >pump-to-rack hose I acquired a week ago. As I began > >moving parts out of the way, I spied the dastardly > >problem. The driver's side boot is torn in two. > >Pentosin sludge all over the place, although it's not > >spraying. It's all landing on the transmission, going > >through about a pint every two weeks of very little > >driving. > > > >Seems to me there shouldn't even be Pentosin inside > >where that boot protects, so it suggests an internal > >leak. > > > >Did I get that right? > > > >So, I needs a new rack. > > > >The write-ups on Chris Miller's page, plus the > >Bentley, give me all the information required for me > >to know I should not try this myself. > > > >So, looking for BTDT on getting a mechanic to do it. > >Are there common mistakes they make? Is there a > >preferred source for the racks? Blau gets $250, any > >reason not to use theirs? Anything else a mechanic > >ought to do, as long as the rack is out? > > > >Is the task possibly easier than I think? > > > >TIA, > > > >Dave > >1989 200Q 10V sedan 148k miles > >Santa Rosa, CA -- Anyone who cannot cope with Mathematics is not fully human. At best (he) is a tolerable sub-human who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house. - Lazarus Long From mike.sylvester at worldnet.att.net Tue May 14 00:09:44 2002 From: mike.sylvester at worldnet.att.net (Michael Sylvester) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: Value of our vehicles References: <20020513140208.5daaa860.in@wy-east.com> Message-ID: <002601c1faf4$d0e1fcc0$6d115b0c@sylvester> Jack, Last December my '91 avant was involved in a front end collision. My car had 248K miles and has a "reconstructed collision" title, from the previous owner. The other drivers ins. paid me $6500 to fix my car. The original estimate was for $5200, but he wrote the estimate for a 10v 200. Apparently they don't always list the 20v as a different car from the 10v. Let me state this again, this settlement was to fix the car, it was not a payment for a total loss. Find a few of the avants forsale on Audifans or Audiworld and show that to the ins co. I think a few of them are priced pretty high. Mike Sylvester Shirley, MA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Walker" To: "200q20v" <200q20v@audifans.com> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 5:09 PM Subject: Value of our vehicles Dear fellow listers, Well there goes another one, I recently crashed my Avant into another vehicle and am having huge troubles getting the insurance company to cough up anything close to replacment value. We started off at $4500 and have been advancing slowly up to $6500. We started off with them finding a 100 sedan and thought that was the same. My insurance company has requested I contact a dealer to determine the value of my avant, the local dealer here (Sunset Porsche Audi) doesn't want any part of trying to establish the value of a car they wouldn't even want to put on their lot. Anybody got any advice??? While mine was not pristine, I loved it. It did everything I wanted. I ski a ton during the winter and it worked perfectly for the 65 ski days we had here in the Pacific Northwest this last winter. 4 studded snow tires and you can climb trees. I want another Avant! It is the best car I could ever imagine for all the things I do in my life. I'm also looking for maybe a S6 Avant. I anticipate buying the car back to have spares for my next one, or perhaps put the 20V into my URQ. Let me know if you need anything. The car was hit in the right front corner trashing the hood, fender, bumber support, valance, headlight and all the stuff underneath. Still runs and drives, the tires rub on the inner fenderwell. Jack Walker jwalker@wy-east.com _______________________________________________ 200q20v mailing list 200q20v@audifans.com http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From dkpriebe at attbi.com Mon May 13 21:52:13 2002 From: dkpriebe at attbi.com (dkpriebe) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: thule rack recommendations for 200 wagon References: <190DB1C7C8ADD51188890002A53F528E4408DF@midp-exch-001.aetna.com> Message-ID: <000e01c1fafa$bbcfa480$60b2e60c@attbi.com> I purchased a Yakima rack in December that fits great great on the existing rails on the Avant. If you want to go the Yakima route, I can get you the exact part number. If I remember correctly it was called something like 'rail grabber', one of the common racks designed to fit on just about any car with existing rails. It's now pretty easy to use Thule attachments on Yakima bars and vice versa. This winter I also purchased a cargo box at Costco, which was a fantastic deal, and worked out great for snowboarding all winter. Dave Priebe Kenmore, WA 91 200tqa 155k his 95.5 S6 99k hers > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Simoes [mailto: ] > Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 1:17 PM > To: quattro@audifans.com; 200 > Subject: thule rack recommendations for 200 wagon > > > As some of you know, I picked up a 91 200tq wagon recently. > > Anyone know the current model Thule rack/feet that will clip on to the > stock roof rails? Their website was not helpful for the 91, but they > list the 751 model for the 95 A6, which I assume is almost identical. > > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v > > This e-mail, including attachments, is intended for the exclusive use of the > person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential or > privileged information. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended > recipient or his or her authorized agent, the reader is hereby notified that > any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is prohibited. If > you think that you have received this e-mail in error, please advise the > sender by reply e-mail of the error and then delete this e-mail immediately. > Thank you. Aetna Inc. > -- > [ Content of type application/ms-tnef deleted ] > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From dkpriebe at attbi.com Mon May 13 22:05:20 2002 From: dkpriebe at attbi.com (dkpriebe) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: Value of our vehicles References: <20020513140208.5daaa860.in@wy-east.com> Message-ID: <001d01c1fafc$93bb1ae0$60b2e60c@attbi.com> Jack- I'm surprised that they gave you such a low number. Up here in Washington, when I registered my Avant with 134K miles just over a year ago, they wanted to charge me a use tax (what used to be a sales tax) based on a vehicle value of $12,000. Apparently the state of Washington uses an 'Automated Valuing System' for determining vehicle values (http://www.wa.gov/dol/vehicles/usetaxavsqa.htm). You could probably call one of the Vancouver area licensing offices to get the current valuation. If you are in Portland, I seems to reason that this same value should hold true. Good luck, Dave Priebe Kenmore, WA 91 200tqa 155k his 95.5 S6 99k hers ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Walker" To: "200q20v" <200q20v@audifans.com> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 2:09 PM Subject: Value of our vehicles Dear fellow listers, Well there goes another one, I recently crashed my Avant into another vehicle and am having huge troubles getting the insurance company to cough up anything close to replacment value. We started off at $4500 and have been advancing slowly up to $6500. We started off with them finding a 100 sedan and thought that was the same. My insurance company has requested I contact a dealer to determine the value of my avant, the local dealer here (Sunset Porsche Audi) doesn't want any part of trying to establish the value of a car they wouldn't even want to put on their lot. Anybody got any advice??? While mine was not pristine, I loved it. It did everything I wanted. I ski a ton during the winter and it worked perfectly for the 65 ski days we had here in the Pacific Northwest this last winter. 4 studded snow tires and you can climb trees. I want another Avant! It is the best car I could ever imagine for all the things I do in my life. I'm also looking for maybe a S6 Avant. I anticipate buying the car back to have spares for my next one, or perhaps put the 20V into my URQ. Let me know if you need anything. The car was hit in the right front corner trashing the hood, fender, bumber support, valance, headlight and all the stuff underneath. Still runs and drives, the tires rub on the inner fenderwell. Jack Walker jwalker@wy-east.com _______________________________________________ 200q20v mailing list 200q20v@audifans.com http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From dan at s-cars.org Tue May 14 01:26:49 2002 From: dan at s-cars.org (Daniel Hussey) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: [s-cars] Re: brake conversions for 200q20v - wilwood (& I'm gone) References: <008301c1fa8a$958385a0$0200000a@porsche> Message-ID: <002701c1fb07$f2d25ce0$9f8fe60c@attbi.com> I've heard the Wilwoods are decent, but according to some people I know that have used them... plan on rebuilding them often! A Brembo setup will be a lot more reliable and will go 8-9 times as long before needing a rebuild. Later, Dan '94 S4 (Black/ecru) North Bend, WA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael (Prospeed Motorsport)" To: Cc: <200q20v@audifans.com>; Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 9:29 AM Subject: [s-cars] Re: brake conversions for 200q20v - wilwood (& I'm gone) > First Keith, if you make parts (brake kits) for Audis, you have a vested > interest to dispute me. > > Second, on eh Winston Cup circuit the dominate caliper is Brembo. Pro > Systems, the largest Brembo racing distributor in the world provides > caliper/rotors and service to approximately 41 Winston Cup teams. The > other 9 teams are running Alcon calipers and rotors. No Wilwoods in > sight!! > > On the F1 scene, the dominate caliper is AP which was purchased last > year by Brembo. > > The Wilwood calipers just aren't in the same league as the other major > brands. There are many reports of the difference between them and the > majors. The most frequent report I hear is you can feel the flex in the > caliper under braking. The Wilwoods are used where cost is a MAJOR issue > and the sacrifice in quality is less critical. When the Wilwood 6 piston > caliper retails for $377 and the Brembo is $3000. > > As to the manufacturer recommendations . . . Maybe I should have stated > the major caliper manufacturers HIGHLY recommend NOT using a racing > style (no dust boot) caliper for a street application. They DO NOT say > the say thing about xdrilled rotors. > > I do know about brakes. It is basically the only thing I do. I would > NEVER recommend or sell a racing style caliper to a customer for a > street application. You are certainly free to do so if you choose. > > BTW, I just saw/read some of the follow up posts to this thread from > over the weekend . . . Scott did not "...serve (me) a plate of humble > pie" I just gave up on the thread. Scott's techniques of shims, while > mechanically effective, go against the practices of every major racing > brake service provider out there. (Pro Systems, TrueChoice, North > American Race Parts, etc.) IF you have to use shims to make the pads fit > correctly, then the system was not engineered correctly in the first > place. > > I'm outa here . . . Every time I try to offer some expert help on brake > systems and the right vs. wrong way of doing things, someone takes to me > to task. Unlike Scott and others, other than a few (very few) 968 > pieces, the only thing I do 50+ hrs a wk is work on calipers and brake > systems. I speak on a regular basis with the engineers that work every > weekend with Winston Cup, IRL, CART and other racing series. I get my > info from both those folks and my first hand experience. > > Just because some of you don't like the truth, because you sold your > customers improperly engineered or jury rigged caliper/rotor > combinations, and/or are selling components that were NEVER designed for > a specific (street) application isn't my fault. And doesn't change the > facts of the case. > > If you want brake info, contact me directly as I will not be on this > list any longer. > > Michael G. Wachholz > Prospeed Motorsports > > 952.249.1169 office > 651.699.3098 fax > > 1735 Norfolk Avenue > Saint Paul, MN 55116 > > mailto:michael@prospeedmotorsport.com > www.prospeedmotorsport.com > > > > >snip< > > > > > None of the major caliper manufacturers, Brembo, AP, > > Alcon, Lockheed, Girling, etc. make or recommend using a caliper > without > > dust boots on a street car. > > > > They don't recommend using cross-drilled rotors for the > > street either, as a safety issue. Wanna take a poll of how > > many listers convienently disregard that particular item? > > > > > There is also a reason why the Wilwoods are so inexpensive > > . . . They are not in the same league as Brembo, AP or Alcon. You get > what you > > > pay for. > > > > Do you have test data to back that up? FYI, the dominate > > brake in all levels of NASCAR is Wilwood. The top classes > > have a minimum race weight of 3800lbs, are limited to a 15" > > wheel, and the hand built chassis can cost over $100,000. > > These cars race on road courses, superspeedways, and 1/2 mile > > ovals for up to 600 miles. Now with those requirements why > > would owners like Roush, Yates, Penske, and Childress, who > > can afford any brake in the world, equip their cars with an > > inferior product? Subject $100,000 race cars to hazard to > > save a few hundred dollars? Put the safety of drivers at risk > > for the same reason? Please explain this, I'm dying to hear > > your expert opinion on the subject. > > > > > FWIW, you can find used Porsche S4 calipers for $400/pr. And there > > > are many suppliers of aftermarket rotors that are 32 mm (1.25") > > > thick. > > > > > > I don't make anything for Audis, so no vested interest here. > > > > I do make things for Audi's and I dont put my customers at > > risk with inferior products. If you dont like what I offer, > > fine, but please refrain from making uninformed and unfounded > > statements about a product which you obviously know every > > little about. > > > > Keith > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > 200q20v mailing list > > 200q20v@audifans.com http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v > > > > _______________________________________________ > S-CAR-List mailing list > S-CAR-List@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list From fundsaloracing at yahoo.com Tue May 14 04:58:32 2002 From: fundsaloracing at yahoo.com (Fundsalo Racing) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: - wilwood & NASCAR - haha! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020514105832.48971.qmail@web13607.mail.yahoo.com> I agree. $100,000 is trivial money. The entire car is a consumable item. Its cost has the same financial impact to the sponsor as does my weekly toilet-paper expense to my family budget. It's ALL about MONEY and MARKETING and ADVERTISING, it's not about racing or safety or keeping costs down - at all. Take a look at the annual advertising budgets of the major NASCAR sponsors Vs the cost of the race-cars themselves..... -glen OOOO --- Brett Dikeman wrote: > Keith said: > > > > Do you have test data to back that up? FYI, > the dominate > >> brake in all levels of NASCAR is Wilwood. The > top classes > >> have a minimum race weight of 3800lbs, are > limited to a 15" > >> wheel, and the hand built chassis can cost over > $100,000. > >> These cars race on road courses, superspeedways, > and 1/2 mile > >> ovals for up to 600 miles. Now with those > requirements why > >> would owners like Roush, Yates, Penske, and > Childress, who > >> can afford any brake in the world, equip their > cars with an > >> inferior product? Subject $100,000 race cars to > hazard to > >> save a few hundred dollars? Put the safety of > drivers at risk > >> for the same reason? Please explain this, I'm > dying to hear > > > your expert opinion on the subject. > >> > > > Has anyone ever looked at the complete -crap- that > Nascar drivers and > teams recommend? They recommend, wear, drink, and > eat ANYTHING that > pays the bills. NASCAR fans are so numerous that > NASCAR > merchandising and sponsorship is an ENORMOUS > business...the sport has > turned into a bunch of 200mph billboards. When I > hit a NASCAR race > on TV once by accident, they were showing computer > generated > #'s/sponsor logos above each car! > > To quote NASCAR for safety/reliability is hilarious. > NASCAR started > as a bunch of moonshine runners. Back in the early > days, NASCAR went > through drivers like a chain smoker goes through > cigarettes...and > even recently, it took the death of a major player > to get new safety > rules into the books(and I believe most teams didn't > do squat until > nascar changed the rulebook, but I could be wrong; > I don't exactly > follow this sort of stuff.) > > Same thing to say that NASCAR's equipment selections > are "the best." > Those people who make engine additives get the > nascar teams to sign > on. Sure, they -may- actually use it, since the > engine's getting > tossed in the trash after a few races anyway...how > many average joes > take out their engine every 2000 miles and dump it > in the trash and > install a new one? I change my -oil- every 5000 > miles. NASCAR teams > change CARS quicker than that. > > NASCAR may race the ovals for 600 miles and blah > blah blah...but they > do so on track surfaces which bear no resemblance to > real world > driving...and everything on the car gets stripped > down. I'm guessing > those calipers are benched after every race, > thoroughly examined for > damage, new seals, etc etc. If something improves > performance > on-track but needs more maintenance at the end of > the day, so be it. > > Do you strip down your brakes after 600 miles? I > don't. I pulled my > rear brakes apart after 60,000+ miles(that would be > 100x longer, > thanks very much.) I live in NE where roads are in > horrible shape, > I've got some dirt roads near the house I used to > take on a daily > basis...and we've got lovely things like road salt > etc. I don't know > too many nascar vehicles that operate on > sanded+salted slushy roads. > > One piston was cosmetically scratched(fixed with > some very light > sanding with 600-grit paper followed by a metal > polish) and had some > sort of paste residue which needed removal...but > neither was > rusted(oops, thats right, I forgot, Audi pistons are > chromed, not > stainless) or damaged beyond repair; the dust boots > did their jobs. > Did I mention that one piston was extended quite a > bit because the > rotor+pads were both severely worn? > > Now, for the icing on the cake, Keith. Have you > ever taken to > studying the manufacturer's recommendations for the > systems you're > supposedly expert in, after giving Michael a > lashing? Apparently not. > > > "CALIPER REBUILDING: > If you race on dirt or drag race on a weekly basis > throughout the > year, you should disassemble your calipers > mid-season and inspect the > caliper seals for excessive wear or hardness caused > by heat. Asphalt > racers generally experience more heat and should do > inspections more > frequently, especially after racing on a track where > high > temperatures are reached. NASCAR's Winston Cup, > Busch GN, Craftsman > Truck and Road Race teams usually replace caliper > seals after each > race to ensure proper disc brake performance. > Disassembly and > replacement of the seals is a simple process and can > prevent > catastrophic brake failure. > " > > (pasted from > http://www.wilwood.com/products/calipers/calipertech.asp) > > Furthermore, I can't help but notice that Wilwood > continuously > mentions that they make RACING products throughout > their website. > Take a look at: > http://www.wilwood.com/products/calipers/calipers.asp > > Seems that they go out of their way to talk about > applications in > various types of racing...and they don't do a whole > lot of talking > about daily drivers -anywhere- on the site. > > Everyone I've ever heard about talk about Wilwoods > has said the same > thing: cheaper, lighter, but high maintenance and > for those that do > little more than drive the car on track and have the > time to do > regular brake overhauls. > > Brett > -- > ---- > "They that give up essential liberty to obtain > temporary > safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben > Franklin > http://www.users.cloud9.net/~brett/ > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v ===== -glen OOOO "....if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one" Jesus Christ to the Eleven Apostles at the Last Supper __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From TDaily at genlyte.com Tue May 14 08:37:30 2002 From: TDaily at genlyte.com (Tom Daily) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: Just a few Problems & questions........ Message-ID: Hi Fans: I read your posts & am constantly amazed at the breadth & depth of knowledge about these great cars. Mine is Bamboo with 79K, purchased from the list about a year ago. Had 59K when I bought it--use it as a winter driver, I have a 928 for the summer. BTW, my commute is 96 mi daily. TA Stage III (an excellent investment), Moda R4's & Michelin Pilot Sport All-Seasons 17x235x45. Need some advice on the next steps: I am going to convert the UFO's: I see 3 alts: Bira has just released their System; 3B has a Brembo conversion & there is a Wildwood conversion available. Any experience with these? I want to change springs/shocks--thinking H&R/Koni. Any advice on this or alts? My ABS activates (one or 2 pulses) when braking, just when the car is almost stopped. After a few of these, the ABS shuts itself off. What's up with that? It's gotten a little loose in the front end, I'll check everything, but what's the likely culprit? Rack? Bushings? I want to change the exhaust: alts seem to be Stebro(CAN), Scorpion(UK), B&N (Gmbh) Any thoughts? I hear the B&N is good. Many thanks, Tom Daily Brookline, MA '91 200TQ 20V '90 V8 Quattro '86 928S3 (Shopping for a UrQ) From QSHIPQ at aol.com Tue May 14 09:15:23 2002 From: QSHIPQ at aol.com (QSHIPQ@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: Braking Technology and experts.... Message-ID: <16b.d9aa3a8.2a1259db@aol.com> I'm gonna chime in here Michael. First, experts are ascribed, not claimed. Whenever I hear anyone in motorsports speak of being an expert, I tend to wince. I've met and discussed motorsports with many experts, never heard *them* ever claim to be. You did, why? And, IF you want to claim being one, boy have I got some questions for you! That said, you have a lot of btdt wrt porsche application calipers. Your own website and "expertise" appears to be full of porsche application calipers/rotors. A lot of btdt on them, if you put 50hours a week into them. I do notice too, that you don't routinely change the piston seal on a "rebuild", which to me, means you missed *the key* part of a caliper rebuild (well along with putting in new pistons). What are you "inspecting for" exactly? I'm *NO* expert, don't claim to be. And, what I find, is that ANY discussion in a public forum wrt techniques, math, documentation or btdt gets a high calibre return fire from you, never discussion nor "answers". My reference to humble pie was in regard to your last years post on A8 rotored Big Reds - a bad math problem. When you present strong "opinions" you *should* expect to be taken to task, "right" and "wrong"? From my research, the best *any* expert can claim is "better" and "worse". You want to go "stronger" than that? Ok, best of luck, you have already been taken to task by the currently available documentation. What we should be spending your "expertise" on, is discussion on the development and measures of critical issues wrt brake wear, construction, and heat measure. A LOT of information is available to any novice or "expert". There is no magic here, the factors that affect brake performance and service life are well known. Anyone putting together Porsche street rotors with adapter hats, isn't enough anymore ('old hat'?:) - to be an "expert". Michael, when you come to these quattro lists, we don't need any reminder of our substandard brakes. Many of us understand not only that they are substandard, but *exactly* what makes them so. Your business revolves around the Porsche\Brembo calipers and Porsche rotors. What your "expertise" appears to be lacking is detailed knowlege of construction and the effects of heat and application on them. That's ok, you are hardly alone, only recently has computer modelling been able to isolate the many variables in caliper/rotor construction vs heat. What this does mean tho, is that your "porsche" applications may be better than what was at the factory for a porsche, and it may or may not (and your self proclaimed expertise might not) so "simply" apply to audi cars. Right now, the modelling and measures are just starting to isolate the variables that affect the major goals one wants to control in any caliper design: Piston Retraction, Seal contruction/groove design, Minimum piston travel for a given design, bridge heat, caliper distortion/carrier distortion, pad construction vs distortion and the effects all these variables have wrt the additional stress of heat cycling. If you do intensive study on the available documentation, all these variables are getting isolated 1 by 1, slowly, AND using heat = constant, and piston caliper as a given "rigid" design (t = constant, no heat distortion factors yet). What you can find in all this data logging is blaring indications where the focus is in terms of variable isolation. First a foremost is piston retraction and drag torque. The variables that affect those 2 critical factors are piston and seal design/groove design. The quandry facing all engineers wrt these factors are the apposing goals of piston retraction vs reduced piston travel. Again, these are just now being isolated in the "virtual model" (vs testing actual calipers on specific cars), and heat is a constant in these models (which we know is far from the truth). All that said (nerd hat on), what you do find is some interesting data appearing, which would indicate that reduced piston travel is a desired trait, and that the further you can isolate the piston from the rotor over the life of the pad, the lower the heat transfer into the piston and caliper. In the "rebuild" business, maybe an oxymoron... Enter the "shim" IME/O porsche has one of the best, my toyota 4 runner maybe even better. Porsche uses a heat reflecting shim behind the brake pad of 1.5mm, and is quite a nice piece of metal, considering it's actual function. My 4 pot toyota on the other hand, uses 2 shims per pad, one a thin heat reflector, the other a thin grate type piston heat isolator. I'll take either one, since the effects of worn pads wrt heat (read increase service/damag) is documented to dramatically increase. By as much as 50% with a non SM pad in fact. More with SM. I'd personally love to get Keith Maddock involved in a more in depth brake discussion, since he does this for a living at TRW, and may have access to the "latest" trends. That said, what some of us have done, is taken to heart the available technical data, and apply it to street cars. Right now, I've serviced a lot of non booted calipers that have lasted longer than booted ones (for a variety of reasons). I've serviced a lot of booted calipers that haven't lasted 1 run group at RA. So, to me the debate isn't "which is better" cuz those variables haven't been really isolated yet (only "claimed"). The common goal should be how to keep distortion and heat transfer to a minimum over the service life of a given braking system. The most obvious way, is to keep the piston away from the rotor. In my simple world, I haven't seen an argument yet that seems to discount that target. I'm happy to discuss in depth (on any list;), the cutting edge technology wrt braking construction and design. CLAIMING by "expert testimony" that what you do is right, and others wrong, just seems premature to me. Especially, when we can look at a million G60's, and know what is "wrong". Which makes what is "better", even include a cheap ass motorsport unbooted wilwood with shims. Which is RIGHT? With all due respect Michael, you haven't supported that yet. You have made your opinion on brakes pretty well known. I disagree with many of them, and am happy to go thru the available documentation that would support my reasons why. Attacking me for that disagreement, turns a discussion on brakes, into personal attacks. I encourage you to get beyond that. Since brake designers haven't been able to answer a lot of the questions wrt what is "right" in production applications, all bets are off in the aftermarket designs. Which makes your opinions, just that. When many look at your "expert testimony" posts, you have listed RIGHT and WRONG ways of doing things. Quite frankly those are pretty strong statements for ANY expert to make. And not supported.... Yet. Stick around, though I suspect a summated understatement would be: Heat is a constant. Cheers Scott Justusson QSHIPQ Peformance Tuning T44tqw mit big reds and shims In a message dated 5/13/02 4:52:15 PM Central Daylight Time, igor@s-cars.org writes: "Michael (Prospeed Motorsport)" wrote: > I'm outa here . . . Every time I try to offer some expert help on brake > systems and the right vs. wrong way of doing things, someone takes to me > to task. From smuckycat at hotmail.com Tue May 14 11:46:31 2002 From: smuckycat at hotmail.com (Joshua C) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: BRAKE PRESSURE ACCUMULATOR Message-ID: It seems that I need a new bomb, what is the cheapest source? Blau sells them for 279$ has anyone found it for less? Also while I have the system drained are there any lines etc.. I should think about replacing, the 4 lines to the calipers are already SS. I am doing new pads and rotors as well. hopefully this will all improve my squishy weak brakes. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From SuffolkD at aol.com Tue May 14 12:14:03 2002 From: SuffolkD at aol.com (SuffolkD@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: Steering and Fluid Levels Message-ID: <10e.11339b96.2a1283bb@aol.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Or just let the groaning go on until the steering pulsates when you turn in a corner, then your empty....................At ~ten years of service every fluid level can drop suddenly. Keep an eye on those fluids and top them off (but don't overfill!) BTDT -steering pulsing..... -Scott in BOSTON In a message dated 5/14/02 3:40:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 200q20v-request@audifans.com writes: > I am surprised because I would assume that the system should > function normally at any fluid level between min & max. It's surprising > that 2 to 3 > inches of fluid in the reservoir would make such a profound difference in > functionality. > From brett at cloud9.net Tue May 14 12:20:48 2002 From: brett at cloud9.net (Brett Dikeman) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: Fwd: 200_20Vt Spotted in Brighton, MA Message-ID: >From: Benjamin Kwan >X-Sender: bkwan@lynx02.dac.neu.edu >To: quattro@audifans.com >Subject: 200_20Vt Spotted in Brighton, MA >Sender: quattro-admin@audifans.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 >Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 10:15:03 -0400 (EDT) >Status: > >Hi all, > >Saw a nice 200 20V this morning in Brighton, MA. It had NY plates on it >and I think it was glacier blue. A lister by chance??? > >Ben -- ---- "They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin http://www.users.cloud9.net/~brett/ From nhvonhof at attbi.com Tue May 14 09:22:31 2002 From: nhvonhof at attbi.com (Neil Vonhof) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: BRAKE PRESSURE ACCUMULATOR References: Message-ID: <3CE12BB7.CC005886@attbi.com> Just happened to notice that they are on special at The Parts Connection for $199.95. Looks like the special expires today. Check out this link: http://www.thepartsconnection.com/specials.htm Neil Vonhof Seattle Joshua C wrote: > It seems that I need a new bomb, what is the cheapest source? Blau sells > them for 279$ has anyone found it for less? Also while I have the system > drained are there any lines etc.. I should think about replacing, the 4 > lines to the calipers are already SS. I am doing new pads and rotors as > well. hopefully this will all improve my squishy weak brakes. > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From malth at umich.edu Tue May 14 12:32:37 2002 From: malth at umich.edu (Chris Covington) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: Value of our vehicles In-Reply-To: <001d01c1fafc$93bb1ae0$60b2e60c@attbi.com> Message-ID: Dave, I wonder if your insurance company would agree with the state value though? I doubt it, but it would be great ammo to use whenever you fight an insurance company over the value of a 200q20v / any other rare old Audi. Chris '91 200q20v On Mon, 13 May 2002, dkpriebe wrote: > Jack- > > I'm surprised that they gave you such a low number. Up here in Washington, > when I registered my Avant with 134K miles just over a year ago, they wanted > to charge me a use tax (what used to be a sales tax) based on a vehicle > value of $12,000. Apparently the state of Washington uses an 'Automated > Valuing System' for determining vehicle values > (http://www.wa.gov/dol/vehicles/usetaxavsqa.htm). You could probably call > one of the Vancouver area licensing offices to get the current valuation. If > you are in Portland, I seems to reason that this same value should hold > true. > > Good luck, > Dave Priebe > Kenmore, WA > 91 200tqa 155k his > 95.5 S6 99k hers > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jack Walker" > To: "200q20v" <200q20v@audifans.com> > Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 2:09 PM > Subject: Value of our vehicles > > > Dear fellow listers, > Well there goes another one, I recently crashed my Avant into another > vehicle and am having huge troubles getting the insurance company to cough > up anything close to replacment value. > We started off at $4500 and have been advancing slowly up to $6500. We > started off with them finding a 100 sedan and thought that was the same. > > My insurance company has requested I contact a dealer to determine the value > of my avant, the local dealer here (Sunset Porsche Audi) doesn't want any > part of trying to establish the value of a car they wouldn't even want to > put on their lot. Anybody got any advice??? > > While mine was not pristine, I loved it. It did everything I wanted. I ski a > ton during the winter and it worked perfectly for the 65 ski days we had > here in the Pacific Northwest this last winter. 4 studded snow tires and you > can climb trees. I want another Avant! It is the best car I could ever > imagine for all the things I do in my life. I'm also looking for maybe a S6 > Avant. > > I anticipate buying the car back to have spares for my next one, or perhaps > put the 20V into my URQ. Let me know if you need anything. The car was hit > in the right front corner trashing the hood, fender, bumber support, > valance, headlight and all the stuff underneath. Still runs and drives, the > tires rub on the inner fenderwell. > > Jack Walker > jwalker@wy-east.com > > > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v > > > > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v > From pjrose at frontiernet.net Tue May 14 12:39:17 2002 From: pjrose at frontiernet.net (Phil and Judy Rose) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: BRAKE PRESSURE ACCUMULATOR In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 10:46 AM -0400 5/14/02, Joshua C wrote: >It seems that I need a new bomb, what is the cheapest source? Blau sells >them for 279$ has anyone found it for less? Also while I have the system >drained are there any lines etc.. I should think about replacing, the 4 >lines to the calipers are already SS. I am doing new pads and rotors as >well. hopefully this will all improve my squishy weak brakes. Rod at TPC appears to have the accumulator on special this week for _under_ $200! I didn't double check to make certain it's the right part we need for our car, so make sure. That's the cheapest I've ever seen it. While you have the system drained, remove and clean the ss-steel mesh filter inside the fluid reservoir. Phil -- ********************************* * Phil & Judy Rose Rochester, NY * * mailto:pjrose@frontiernet.net * ********************************* From pjrose at frontiernet.net Tue May 14 12:53:13 2002 From: pjrose at frontiernet.net (Phil and Judy Rose) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: Steering and Fluid Levels In-Reply-To: <10e.11339b96.2a1283bb@aol.com> References: <10e.11339b96.2a1283bb@aol.com> Message-ID: > >In a message dated 5/14/02 3:40:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >200q20v-request@audifans.com writes: >> I am surprised because I would assume that the system should >> function normally at any fluid level between min & max. It's surprising >> that 2 to 3 >> inches of fluid in the reservoir would make such a profound difference in > > functionality. > > You say "2 to 3 inches of fluid"? That seems to be a lot greater distance than I recall (for the Max/Min levels). Anyway, I wonder if you have you checked (or replaced) the brake pressure accumulator recently? Possibly the sensitivity (i.e., of groaning) to fluid level might be related to having a dead accumulator? If the accumulator has lost its gas charge (behind the rubber diaphragm) it will accommodate more Pentosin while under pressure, which could draw down the fluid to a much lower level than you'd expect. Just a thought (WAG?) Phil -- ********************************* * Phil & Judy Rose Rochester, NY * * mailto:pjrose@frontiernet.net * ********************************* From b.m.benz at prodigy.net Tue May 14 10:14:43 2002 From: b.m.benz at prodigy.net (Bernie Benz) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: brake conversion-wilwood - the long and the nerdy In-Reply-To: <119.1170c65a.2a115f07@aol.com> Message-ID: Note to the List: Scott and I have been known to get into a little techno banter, sparring, now and again. (?) If this stuff is not of general list interest, speak up please. Then we could all go back to "Was that you I saw on Route 69 yesterday?" Bernie > From: QSHIPQ@aol.com > Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 14:25:11 EDT > To: b.m.benz@prodigy.net > Cc: 200q20v@audifans.com, DasWolfen@aol.com > Subject: Re: brake conversion-wilwood - the long and the nerdy > > Bernie: > Comments inserted > >> First, as a pad wears, more of the piston >> is exposed to the elements in a non sealed caliper. This means (SS or not) >> that surface rust forms on the piston, > BB>>If rust forms on a ss piston, it's not stainless. That's Wilwood's > problem. > > Not with you bernie. There are several references wrt ss that don't support > your statement at all. I haven't seen a piston yet in a caliper that is > "immune" to rust. That said, below I change rust to "crud" cuz salt has a > way of taking the best of the metals, and turning them to crap accumulators. Stainless is is only stainless relative to the application. That apparently is one of Wilwood's problems. But, I like your "crud" description. > >> the further the pad wears, the more >> rust area will form. As this crud gets scraped off, >>> What is scraping it off? Happens in service or during inept overhaul? > > Bernie as a pad wears, you can add shims behind it. BEFORE a pad wears, you > can add a shim behind it. I say add enough shims BEFORE a pad wears so that > the pad doesn't touch the rotor in the rest position. This can be applied to > G60's (that's one THICK pad), big reds, or wilwoods. You keep speaking of > "service". "Attention" would be a better word. You can shim before > servicing any caliper. WRT shims, we are speaking of optimizing piston > travel (less is better), not rebuilding or "servicing" the caliper, in fact, > not even taking it off the strut. > >>> What you absolutely don't want is for the piston seal to scrape it off when >>> the pistons are forced back into the caliper to make room for shims or new >>> pads. > > Chickens before eggs Bernie. Think track event, or think BEFORE the pad has > ever touched a rotor. Or think before "accumulated" crud. > >> wear of the piston bore occurs, more crud = more potential wear =increased > service interval. > > BB>>By the piston bore I assume that you are referring to the caliper bore in >>> which the piston seals. What wear? In service the piston never touches > the >>> caliper bore. > > I'll chuckle at that statement. Any piston (especially G60's) can not only > "touch" the cylinder bore, but score it. Those are the ones I core to Napa > :). When calipers twist and pistons are hyperextended, all bets are off. In > service, the only thing attempting to keep a piston from hitting a bore is a > rubber seal. The rubber seal is sufficient to keep the piston centered in the caliper bore if there are no latteral forces on it. And there are absolutely none on an opposed piston caliper and should be none on a sliding caliper if the guide pins are straight, perpendicular to the plane of the rotor. > > BB>>Scott, I just don't know where to start on your apparent misconceptions > above, but I'll try. > > OK >> First, the pads are rigidly restrained from moving tangentally with the >> rotor by the carrier, not the caliper. > > er, the carrier in a fixed caliper, IS the caliper by definition. Your > statement only applies to a floating caliper arrangement. You are correct. Most on this list are more familar with the floating calilper, hence my emephsis. > >> There is no force resulting from >> braking torque exerted on the caliper! If braking force is sufficient to >> deflect the carrier and inasmuch as it is mounted to the bearing housing off >> center of the rotor, this deflection would cause an inperceptively slight >> twist at the business end of the carrier which is holding both the pads and >> the caliper. But the caliper is just going along for the ride with the pads >> and sees no change, twist, relative to the pad or its slides. There is no >> twist of the caliper relative to the pads or relative to its mounting points >> on the carrier! > > Again, you are thinking in terms of "floating" but even there the thinking is > not quite correct. The forces on a pad are NOT even, and the stresses on > calipers includes designing anti-clamshell tendencies of the caliper bridge. > One area where Posrche found Brembos stock application to be lacking (used > larger and better grade bolts). You are talking caliper "clam shell" deflections to the extent that they may alter the caliper bore axis from being perpendicular to the rotor and the pad backing plate. Firstly, this type deflection should be negligable in any caliper worth its salt. But maybe not Wilwoods. > >> Therefore, the piston instability problem to which you allude does not >> exist. The piston axis is always perpindicular to its mating backing plate, >> therefore is always on axis with the caliper bore (unless the pad has worn >> tapered). To your above point I will add to my statement: (and unless appreciable clam shell deflection exists) > > Bernie There IS drag of the pad against the disk which tends to "cock" the > piston in its bore so the piston to bore clearance, This effect that you claim is not true, Scott! The reaction force restraining the pad against braking torque is supplied by the caliper or carrier in which the pad is restrainded. The caliper bore is an intergal part of, or closely coupled to this restrainment. Thus, braking torque causes no significant motion between pad backing plate and the caliper bore axis and, inasmuch as the piston is pressure coupled to the backing plate, it is not subject to either a cocking force nor latteral motion within the bore. > thermal coefficients of > expansion between piston and caliper as well as seal design and location are > crucial. If you look at some of the SAE articles published on thermal > coefficients of expansion (try 1999-01-0483 - Numerical Prediction of Brake > Fluid Temperature Rise During Braking and Heat Soaking, or 2000-01-0445 - An > Analytical Method to Predict Thermal Distortion of a Brake Rotor or 942086 - > Evaluation fo the Energy input in Pad and Disc During Brake Application, or > 880256 - Approaches to the Thermal Modelling of Disc Brakes), you can see > that piston and bore clearances are affected by temperature greatly. Your references point to the fact, and I agree that there are major thermal problems in brake design but IMO, the least of which is differential thermal expansion between piston and caliper bore. Current seal designs allow a relatively large clearance between the two, and they enjoy close thermal coupling because of the surrounding fluid. Wilwood may have greater problems with differential thermal expansion because of their use of dissimilar materials. > >>> This latter unusual condition may cause the piston axis to not be >>> congruent with the caliper bore axis, but never enough such that the piston >>> surface contacts the bore. The piston seal keeps the piston centered in >>> the >>> caliper bore, such that there is never contact between the piston and >>> caliper bore and therefore no associated wear. > > Opinion Bernie, not supported by fact. Thermal loads can get high enough > that piston s can touch the cylinder wall, it happens all the time with G60's > at track events. Look, if you read some of the papers above, you will see > that typical "extreme" heat soaking occurs in under 30 minutes of brake heat > cycling (that's about the length of 1 quattro club run group). Once that > temperature gets high enough, all bets are off. What you also find is that > temperatures of aluminum bodied calipers with semi metallic pads generate the > highest "extreme" heat (compared to iron calipers with SM or organic pads OR > aluminum calipers with organic pads. The piston to bore clearance will tend to increase with temperature rise in aluminum calipers. > >>> The only heat generated in the braking system is generated by friction >>> between the pads and the rotor. There is no other source of heat! Twists >>> and kinks, real or unreal, do not generate heat. You have kinky pistons? >>> Kinky pistons must be bad! > > A true statement, there is no other *source* for heat. But the resultant > heat acuumlation can cause higher heat, and can be measured in the > caliper/rotor/fluid/piston. What you find with "cocked" pistons (hey, that's > the term SAE uses) or "overextended pistons", is that the ability of the > piston to retract becomes very high. That causes more heat to build up, > which leads to premature failure of dust seals, as well as the ability of the > piston seal to properly align the piston in the bore. Here you admit that it is the piston seal that is responsible for aligning the piston in the bore. I would add "exclusively". "heat accumulation" can not cause higher heat. Increased heat input will cause increased temperature rise. Piston retraction is caused exclusively by the memory return characteristics of the distorted elastermeric seal, the recovery of which is degraded by temmperature. Do you use Viton seals for your racing applications? > >>> My comments are general, applicable to any braking system excepting where >>> stated as Wilwood related. Piston travel relative to its seal interface is >>> related only to pad wear, therefore with pad wear the seal is moving onto >>> the clean internal piston surface, never the other way, excepting when one >>> forces the piston back into the caliper bore (without overhaul) for shim >>> addition or pad replacement, thus forcing the dirty external surface >>> through the seal interface. > > Hmm, I don't read a lot of application, only theory here Bernie. The optimal > pad in terms of heat, is a new one. As you move a pad closer to the rotor > (wear), the heat *thru* the backing plate gets higher (see -0483 above). > Without question, adding shims to 2/3 worn pad (especially heat reflecting or > grate type) will reduce the temps at the piston and caliper compared to a pad > with full service on it (a conclusion in the paper) This response is common sense Scott, if one is not nit picking terms. But it does not address the point of my statement. If cost were no object we would all be using low conductivity, composite backing plate pads (without shims). > >> When you speak of ANY aftermarket brake combination, shims are a key factor >> in them. For more on this ck the archives, I went a round with MGW on this >> exact point. Bottom line: The less piston travel (*however* you achieve > it, >> shims are the easiest way) over the life of a given pad, the less service >> the caliper will require. >>> As I demonstrated above, there is absolutelly nothing negative about > outward >>> piston movement compensating for pad wear, nor does it result in any >>> required caliper service. > > No Bernie > -0483 "Case 3: Brake system with aluminum caliper and two thirds worn NAO > (organic) friction material" > > "As friction materials wear out, more frictional heat transfers to the > caliper resulting in high brake fluid temperature and hence the brake system > with worn friction pad should be considered" > > Table 2 shows the operating fluid temps increased by 50C at 30minutes, and > Max fluid temp during heat soak increased by 53C to 147C (150c is the wet > boiling point). If you look at SM pads, a new pad is already over the 150C > mark. Scott, you've switched the point of discussion away from my objection to your contention of "kinked and cocked" pistons being caused by braking torque as a reason for employing shims, to one of thermal considerations in brake design. Different subject. > >>> Smart caliper service is performed in preperation >>> for new pads, Not so smart caliper service must be performed as a result >>> of caliper seal failure caused because of dirty pistons being forced into >>> the caliper bore (obviously such seal failure is much less frequent with >>> booted pistons than open). > > Me, I'd be pulling the boots off and replacing them before and after track > events. It's not "dirty" pistons we are speaking of. It's worn pads and > heat Bernie. We started this thread by pushing "cruded" Wilwood pistons into their seal interface to make room for shims! > >>> Scott, I have never questioned, and have high respect for your service >>> experience. But IMO, the use of shims is an old wive's tale (tail), >>> excepting possibly in the use of unbooted pistons on dirt track, aka >>> Wilwood. > > I routinely shim booted piston calipers Bernie, even porsche does with the > Big Reds (stock application). It's NOT a wives tale, it's sound and good > practice over the "service life" of any caliper pad. You must then have a list of Porsche and Audi factory approved PNs for these "service shims"? > >>> How does one run "out of master cylinder"? Are you talking about running >>> out of pedal stroke? No, the pad to rotor clearance established by the >>> flexing of the piston seal remains constant through out the full thickness >>> life of the pad. No, not the brake fluid resorvoir volume, as it is >>> sufficient to allow backing plate to rotor contact on extreemly undersized >>> rotors without sucking air. > > Bernie, you can easily run out of brake master volume. Your above only holds > true of equal total piston area. As it the case with most 4 pot brakes, > accomodating the front conversions is *usually* adequate, accomodating 4 x 4 > pot usually isn't. It's strickly a surface area/volume of fluid equation. Thanks for the clairification, Scott. Bernie > >>> I hope that we are still having fun. > > Bernie, I enjoy reading your opinions, but here, the documentation supports > little of your opinned theory. Even after the multiple reads, Keith Tackett > appears to be closer to practice *and* theory. > > Shim away, I say. > > Scott Justusson > t44tqw big reds with shims > > From jrc100 at earthlink.net Tue May 14 13:12:22 2002 From: jrc100 at earthlink.net (John Cummings) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: FW: Repairing/Rebuilding Rear Calipers? Message-ID: <4120025214161222590@earthlink.net> > [Original Message] > From: Bernie Benz > To: John Cummings > Date: 4/27/02 12:42:53 AM > Subject: FW: Repairing/Rebuilding Rear Calipers? > > > > ---------- > > From: Bernie Benz > > Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 07:55:15 -0700 > > To: Steve Crosbie > > Cc: 200q20V mailing list <200q20v@audifans.com> > > Subject: Re: Repairing/Rebuilding Rear Calipers? > > > > Good write-up Steve, > > > > One comment. > > As I recall, maybe wrongly, lithium base grease is water soluable. Inasmuch > > as brake fluid is miscible with water, it then follows that lithium grease may > > also be miscable in brake fluid. Therefore I use a "waterproof" boat trailer > > wheel bearing grease. > > > > Bernie > > > >> From: Steve Crosbie > >> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 00:56:41 -0600 > >> To: Peter Schulz , 200q20v@audifans.com > >> Subject: Re: Repairing/Rebuilding Rear Calipers? > >> > >> Peter, > >> I just finished rebuilding the 200 rear brake calipers, including > >> the e brake mechanism - with a couple of message that Bernie sent me > >> plus some discoveries I made in the process: > >> > >> Peter Schulz wrote: > >> > >>> Bernie/Folks: > >>> > >>> Wide distribution due to the fact that those of us not in warm, dry climates > >>> suffer the malady of emergency brake cable/caliper issues. > >>> > >>> I tried to disassemble one of the 200's rear calipers yesterday. I removed > >>> it from the caliper carrier, removed the emergency brake return spring, and > >>> brake hose. Took it to the bench. Using the Lisle "Cube" tool to turn the > >>> piston out of the caliper body - removed the piston and its boot. Removed > >>> the inner dust shield from the piston cavity. Looked into the piston cavity > >>> and saw the threaded rod to which the caliper piston is attached, and > >>> further > >>> inside, about three inches or 7.5 cm was a circlip that appeared to separate > >>> the piston compartment from the emergency brake cam and rod. > >>> > >>> I tried to remove this circlip using two different circlip pliers, then a > >>> pair of long needle nose pliers, to no avail - either the piston rod was in > >>> the way, or parts of the caliper body got in the way of the pliers. I even > >>> tried a pair of small philips screw drivers inserted in the circlip holes. > >>> > >> I had the same issue finding a circlip plier that was long and skinny > >> enough to remove the circlip holding the pistonin the bottom of the > >> caliper body. I bought a cheap pair of needle nose pliers with long and > >> skinny ends and simply filed the ends round to fit the circlip holes > >> (got a pair that had a spring and about 4" long ends). > >> That circlip holds a sort of cage that holds a spring under pressure. > >> In the center of this is the threaded rod that the piston rides on. > >> There is not a lot of room, but enough to get the skinny pliers in. Be > >> very careful since when the circlip is released the spring will shoot > >> the spring holding cage (spring keeper) and itself into orbit. The > >> second one I did I put the caliper in a vice to steady it and held a > >> small 2x2 piece of wood on the top of the spring keeper as the circlip > >> was removed - much less fun, but safer. Once the spring, spring keeper > >> and threaded rod attached to the lower plate are removed, you can get at > >> the inside of this camber. Inside this chamber you see the e brake > >> shaft and a small jelly bean shaped thing (piece of metal rod rounded of > >> at each end) that is held between an indent in the e brake shaft and an > >> indent in the threaded rod shaft. > >> > >>> > >>> I finally surrendered, pried the cam and rod out of the caliper body as far > >>> as possible, sanded it, sprayed it with Wurth Rost-off, worked it back and > >>> forth until it would easily move, covered the exposed area with synthetic > >>> brake grease, and pushed the cam and rod back into the caliper body. I then > >>> cleaned the piston cavity, lubed the piston with brake fluid and reassembled > >>> the caliper. > >>> > >> At this point you can take out the e brake shaft and clean it up with > >> some sand paper, coarse to fine grain (the corroded shaft is the reason > >> the e brake lever does not return). Also clean up the old gease and > >> re-grease the cavity with high temp. lithium grease. The seal where the > >> e braake shaft goes into the caliper is a simple oil seal. I got mine > >> at a bearing supplNow cier. I found a TCM oil seal part # 16x24x7TC > >> (16mm {shaft opening }X 24mm {outside diameter) X 7mm {thick}). Refit > >> the jelly bean and the brake lever shaft and threaded rod w/ bottom > >> plate. Now comes the fun - the spring and spring keeper must be > >> compressed in order for the circlip to seat. I used an appropriate > >> socket on the spring keeper that covered the keeper, and allowed the > >> threaded rod to pass through. Then took a large C clamp and clamped the > >> socket down to compress the spring so the circlip can fasten. It takes > >> a little trial and error and you have to center the spring keeper a bit > >> (first thing under the circlip before the threaded rod plate. Sounds > >> worse than it is. Once it is together there now enough spring tension > >> to reset the e brake even before the outside spring clip is attached. > >> It has been working like brand new calipers for over 2 weeks - no lock > >> up of the ebrake cable and plenty of holding power. > >> > >>> > >>> Now the ebrake cam mechanism is moving easily enough that I probably did not > >>> have to completely dis-assemble the caliper, but I still _want_ to see > >>> what's > >>> going on back there...any tips advice, etc? > >>> > >>> BTW - I did notice that completely removing the piston from the caliper > >>> appeared to allow more of the ebrake caliper rod to be exposed to cleaning, > >>> than just prying it out and moving it back and forth with screw drivers and > >>> pliers. > >>> > >>> There are some good existing instructions and guidance at > >>> http://www.urs4.com/technical/repair/ebrake/ebrake.html and also at: > >>> http://20v.org/brakprob.htm#handbrake - I wanted to take it to the next > >>> level, however. > >>> > >>> > >>> TIA! > >>> > >>> -Peter > >>> > >> Good Luck, > >> Steve Crosbie > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> 200q20v mailing list > >> 200q20v@audifans.com > >> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v Steve,thanks your post on rebuilding the rear calipers walked me through the job perfectly. Followed Bernies advice and got waterproof "all-weather" boat trailer wheel bearing grease- guess what it's a lithium grease. --- John Cummings --- jrc100@earthlink.net From smuckycat at hotmail.com Tue May 14 13:38:34 2002 From: smuckycat at hotmail.com (Joshua C) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: 200q20v digest, Vol 1 #918 - 9 msgs Message-ID: I want to change the exhaust: alts seem to be Stebro(CAN), Scorpion(UK), B&N (Gmbh) Any thoughts? I hear the B&N is good. I have the Stebro on my Audi, it is a nicely built unit, it sounds good in my opinion but can get to drone on the highway, if you don't mind it isn't bad, and if your going over 80 it isn't real noticible. (girlfriend hates it) Also if you are going to put it in your self realize that you need connection hardware that works well, the tubes are larger diameter and my stock clamps didn't seem to seal also U clamps don't work well either due to the proximity of the tubes to each other. I had to file and kind of shape the clamps to fit. Someone else who has more knowlege can help out here with a cleaner solution. I paid 775 for the cat back unit, you can get it from blau or Stebro same price. I have been told I could have saved a lot by having one made for me. Josh Falmouth MA 91 200 Avant 73 Alfa GTV _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From pjrose at frontiernet.net Tue May 14 14:12:15 2002 From: pjrose at frontiernet.net (Phil Rose) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: brake conversion-wilwood - the long and the nerdy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 9:14 AM -0700 5/14/02, Bernie Benz wrote: >Note to the List: Scott and I have been known to get into a little techno >banter, sparring, now and again. (?) If this stuff is not of general list >interest, speak up please. Then we could all go back to "Was that you I saw >on Route 69 yesterday?" Heck no, wasn't me, Bernie. I stayed east o' the Mississippi--all day long (just a-breakin' and a-fixin', a-breakin' and a-fixin'...durned if sometimes gittin' it broke ain't the hardest part!) Yep! :-) Phil -- Phil Rose Rochester, NY mailto:pjrose@frontiernet.net From QSHIPQ at aol.com Tue May 14 14:20:03 2002 From: QSHIPQ at aol.com (QSHIPQ@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: brake conversion-wilwood - the long and the nerdy Message-ID: <181.8545500.2a12a143@aol.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Bernie, edited and comments inserted... In a message dated 5/14/02 11:14:52 AM Central Daylight Time, b.m.benz@prodigy.net writes: >Note to the List: Scott and I have been known to get into a little techno >banter, sparring, now and again. (?) If this stuff is not of general list >interest, speak up please. Then we could all go back to "Was that you I saw >on Route 69 yesterday?" Nice load of the gun Bernie :) >>Stainless is is only stainless relative to the application. That apparently >>is one of Wilwood's problems. But, I like your "crud" description. SS has many iterations, few of which are immune to surface rust. Use crud if you like. All that said, I'd take ANY stainless over the mild steel/chrome piston arrangement audi uses. Dust booted (as apposed to the Denver type) or not. >>sufficient to keep the piston centered in the caliper >>bore if there are no latteral forces on it. And there are absolutely none >>on an opposed piston caliper and should be none on a sliding caliper if the >>guide pins are straight, perpendicular to the plane of the rotor. Lots of "if's" we should be looking at the documentation for. The guide pins AREN'T straight, that's one of the reasons floating caliper arrangements are rarely found in racing. That's LOT of stress on a guide pin, under a LOT of thermal stress as well. Drag torque is a HUGE problem in heat cycling of brakes bernie. Add to that a deforming rubber piston, differing metal expansion rates pison/caliper/carrier/carrierpin/pad, you start speaking *ONLY* in theory. Right now, the current brake theory modelling (as late as SAE 2002) gives piston and carrier/caliper distortion as "fixed". BUT, that is only for the modelling exercises, we KNOW (and the paper authors acknowlege) this just isn't so. > er, the carrier in a fixed caliper, IS the caliper by definition. Your > statement only applies to a floating caliper arrangement. BB>>You are correct. Most on this list are more familar with the floating >>calilper, hence my emephsis. Hmm, where I originally was asking the question. You are speaking of floating (when you responded to Keith, you were speaking of fixed), Keith is speaking of fixed, and MGW is speaking of fixed. I'm happy to discuss floating, as all stock audis use this arrangement. > Again, you are thinking in terms of "floating" but even there the thinking is > not quite correct. The forces on a pad are NOT even, and the stresses on > calipers includes designing anti-clamshell tendencies of the caliper bridge. > One area where Posrche found Brembos stock application to be lacking (used > larger and better grade bolts). >>You are talking caliper "clam shell" deflections to the extent that they may >>alter the caliper bore axis from being perpendicular to the rotor and the >>pad backing plate. Firstly, this type deflection should be negligable in >>any caliper worth its salt. But maybe not Wilwoods. Explain that to Porsche, or better yet, explain that to Brembo. Porsche didn't like what they saw, and spec'd a fix. That said, I'll assign a chuckle to "any caliper worth it's salt", since we are now speaking of floating G60's. Assigning an F1 key to G60's = No worth it's salt. > >> Therefore, the piston instability problem to which you allude does not >> exist. The piston axis is always perpindicular to its mating backing plate, >> therefore is always on axis with the caliper bore (unless the pad has worn >> tapered). BB>>>To your above point I will add to my statement: (and unless appreciable > >clam shell deflection exists) I'd need a quantification on "appreciable" Bernie. ANY is critical, especially in the context of extreme heat cycles. > > Bernie There IS drag of the pad against the disk which tends to "cock" the > piston in its bore so the piston to bore clearance, BB>>This effect that you claim is not true, Scott! The reaction force >>restraining the pad against braking torque is supplied by the caliper or >>carrier in which the pad is restrainded. The caliper bore is an intergal >>part of, or closely coupled to this restrainment. Thus, braking torque >>causes no significant motion between pad backing plate and the caliper bore >>axis and, inasmuch as the piston is pressure coupled to the backing plate, >>it is not subject to either a cocking force nor latteral motion within the >>bore. Hmm. Bernie, what happens when you warp a rotor? What happens to that warpage as it crosses over a large lateral pad? If this was caused by extreme heat, then we also might consider that the seal is also compromised = deformed (it is by definition). Your theory is not supported by the documentation. OR, someone needs to explain to me why I have nicks in G60 bores. "It's not possible" seems a bit weak for me to argue. >>Your references point to the fact, and I agree that there are major thermal >>problems in brake design but IMO, the least of which is differential thermal >>expansion between piston and caliper bore. Current seal designs allow a >>relatively large clearance between the two, and they enjoy close thermal >>coupling because of the surrounding fluid. Wilwood may have greater >>problems with differential thermal expansion because of their use of >>dissimilar materials. Again, your "opinion" Bernie is just that. Current seal design doesn't support you. The seal groove is tapered, and the seal isn't made of any fantastic material, which means it's sensitive to heat. As a pad wears, you get a lot more of it transmitted INTO the caliper, THRU the piston. The heat of that piston affects the retraction properties of a deformed piston seal trying to retract an extended piston. Result is more drag torque = more heat = failure.... On extension a piston seal is deformed, that's it's design. A whole bunch of factors (age, temp, clamp vs sliding force) affect the character of the deformity. Right now, the current research is focusing on keeping age and temp constant and focusing on clamp vs sliding force. Once that's done, enter the heat cycle and the cray supercomputer. I *like* your theory, wish it could be supported. >The piston to bore clearance will tend to increase with temperature rise in >aluminum calipers. Ok cuz aluminum expands faster than steel... Doesn't that affect the seal and retraction properties? If that clearance gets enough, and the resulting drag torque generates even more heat, a cocked piston could become a higher risk problem.... >>Here you admit that it is the piston seal that is responsible for aligning >>the piston in the bore. I would add "exclusively". "heat accumulation" can >>not cause higher heat. True, but convection of more heat sensitive parts becomes a problem. Quickly. The piston seal is heat sensitive. So is brake fluid. >> Increased heat input will cause increased >>temperature rise. Piston retraction is caused exclusively by the memory >>return characteristics of the distorted elastermeric seal, the recovery of >>which is degraded by temmperature. ... And age, and clamping force vs sliding force, and piston extension to retraction changing the strain energy. A huge matrix here. BB>> Do you use Viton seals for your racing >>applications? I don't think current technology is there yet Bernie. Designing braking systems will be tough to accomodate viton IMO. The problem is that the matrix of heat includes the heat absorbed by a specific rotor on a specific hub with a specific wheel. Right now the current thinking is to leave the "seal" in the "rubber" category, and keep the heat FROM getting to it. Someti mes that's possible. Many times not. > adding shims to 2/3 worn pad (especially heat reflecting or > grate type) will reduce the temps at the piston and caliper compared to a pad > with full service on it (a conclusion in the paper) >>This response is common sense Scott, if one is not nit picking terms. But >>it does not address the point of my statement. If cost were no object we >>would all be using low conductivity, composite backing plate pads (without >>shims). So, IN THE MEANTIME, shims sure appear to be a decent answer. Or just keep putting new pads on during "extreme" usage. There are ceramic coated backing plates available, even for the G60. IME, that didn't solve the problem in the G60, but that's common sense too, I suppose. >>Scott, you've switched the point of discussion away from my objection to >>your contention of "kinked and cocked" pistons being caused by braking >>torque as a reason for employing shims, to one of thermal considerations in >>brake design. Different subject. Hardly. Try a correlation of 1. Kinked or cocked pistons will increase the drag torque, due to the increase in time for the piston to return to it's original (or close to) rest state. Drag torque creates a heat problem. Thermal consideration in brake designs are currently focused on drag torque (minimal) and piston extension (minimum). BB>>We started this thread by pushing "cruded" Wilwood pistons into their seal >>interface to make room for shims! You claim the wilwood piston is crudded, not me. I say use the shims until you get drag torque. At a track event this can be a great way to keep the caliper from failure *before* crud accumlates. You are focusing on sending a crudded piston into a seal. In a G60 with chrome plating and heat cycles, without piston replacement you are doing that anyway. I say keep the piston travel to a minimum. Keith's point as well. Do that, only good things can result. Once you have crudded a piston, the game is over anyway. BB>>You must then have a list of Porsche and Audi factory approved PNs for these >>"service shims"? The textars are easy, those shims are available separately, or you can accumulate a pile of them. The G60's are too. Nice that antisqueal plates can serve a dual function. SJ From brianl at starsys.com Tue May 14 12:24:48 2002 From: brianl at starsys.com (Brian Link) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: BRAKE PRESSURE ACCUMULATOR Message-ID: <01C1FB39.F5B3E640.brianl@starsys.com> Where are you located. There is a guy in Colorado that does or used to refill them with nitrogen for between $25-$50. He did mine 2 years ago and it is still working well 30+ pumps. Check the quattro list archives under bomb recharging. Otherwise Check with the dealer as of lately they have been surprisingly me with lower prices. Brian Link Boulder, CO. From: "Joshua C" To: 200q20v@audifans.com Subject: BRAKE PRESSURE ACCUMULATOR Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 10:46:31 -0400 It seems that I need a new bomb, what is the cheapest source? Blau sells them for 279$ has anyone found it for less? Also while I have the system drained are there any lines etc.. I should think about replacing, the 4 lines to the calipers are already SS. I am doing new pads and rotors as well. hopefully this will all improve my squishy weak brakes. From bfoster at bu.edu Tue May 14 14:29:24 2002 From: bfoster at bu.edu (Bryan Foster) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: 200_20Vt Spotted in Brighton, MA Message-ID: That would be me. Just got the car in March. It has 127k mi. Only thing I have done to it is a VDO boost gauge in the glove box. I am going to chip it this summer when I have some time to make sure it is ready for the transplant. Needs new struts and UFOs. If anyone would like to recommend Boston area audi mechanics that would be great. Got one recommendation already from a lister. I am sure I am going to be needing them eventually. Thanks. See ya around Boston, Bryan Foster From paul at clarity.net Tue May 14 14:53:51 2002 From: paul at clarity.net (Paul R. Luevano) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: 200_20Vt Spotted in Brighton, MA References: Message-ID: <3CE14F2F.7FA77ED2@clarity.net> Bryan Foster wrote: > > If anyone would like to recommend Boston area audi mechanics that would be > great. Got one recommendation already from a lister. I am sure I am > going to be needing them eventually. Thanks. Autobon in Cambridge. When I don't do the work, they do. Peter has a 200 20V Avant. http://www.autobon.com/ -- ____________________________________________________________________ Paul Luevano | AMA * MSF |'99 CBR 600F4 (Racebike) http://teamdaemon.com | USM * CCS #898|'97 CBR 1100XX (Streetbike) Waltham, MA USA | NMA #116657 |'91 200TQ20V (Winter) _____"The purpose of man is to live, not to exist."-Jack London_____ From Djdawson2 at aol.com Tue May 14 14:59:25 2002 From: Djdawson2 at aol.com (Djdawson2@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: Brake Conversion Message-ID: <9.27fba422.2a12aa7d@aol.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] All, I want to ask about the "Big Red" conversion again. I am under the impression that I can convert my 20v using late A8 rotors, BR calipers, and RS2 adapters. Is this correct? Any other parts required? Is this a "good" conversion? Any help would be appreciated. Oh yeah, my car has already been converted to G60s... does this make any difference? TIA, Dave From c_mihnea at yahoo.com Tue May 14 12:18:30 2002 From: c_mihnea at yahoo.com (Mihnea) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: Brake Conversion In-Reply-To: <9.27fba422.2a12aa7d@aol.com> Message-ID: <20020514181830.14681.qmail@web10008.mail.yahoo.com> Dave, you won't be able to convert your 20v's brakes that easily because of the specific UFO wheel hubs that are bigger in diameter than the other cars'... IIRC, the UFO hubs are 144mm in diameter while the normal ones are only 131 or something like that, so you won't be able to do the conversion unless you remove the hubs and have them turned or swap the whole strut assembly for a 10v 200/late model 5k on which hubs you'll be able to fit the A8 rotors. Furthermore, the UFO struts have a different bolt pattern for the calipers that won't allow you to use the RS2 caliper brackets... so the 200 10v's struts are the best option IMHO... You can also do a cheaper conversion using the RS2 normal calipers (smaller than the big reds) over the A8's 314x30mmm rotors.... this has been working for 2 1/2 years on a friend's S2 with no problems whatsoever. HTH, Mihnea --- Djdawson2@aol.com wrote: > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > All, > I want to ask about the "Big Red" conversion again. > I am under the > impression that I can convert my 20v using late A8 > rotors, BR calipers, and > RS2 adapters. Is this correct? Any other parts > required? Is this a "good" > conversion? Any help would be appreciated. Oh > yeah, my car has already been > converted to G60s... does this make any difference? > TIA, > Dave __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From t44tq at mindspring.com Tue May 14 15:30:29 2002 From: t44tq at mindspring.com (TM) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: Brake Conversion In-Reply-To: <9.27fba422.2a12aa7d@aol.com> Message-ID: <000201c1fb75$6d4fb450$0d42fea9@newpc> Dave- It definitely makes a big difference in terms of the right info. If your car has been converted to G60s, you can pretty much use any brake kit that is made for the UrS, including the use of RS2 caliper brackets and EuroS8 rotors (not A8), 323x30mm to convert your car to "Big Reds." You'll need the following parts: 993tt or 928GTS calipers (x2) RS2 brake caliper brackets (x2) Brake pad set for above calipers (x1) New caliper mounting bolts for bracket to strut body (x4) New caliper mounting bolts for caliper to bracket (x4) Brake vibration dampeners (x4) Euro S8 rotors (323x30mm) (x2) You may want to consider using SS brake lines as well. Depending on the cost of these parts, you may want to call up Tom at Euro-Car and see if his kit if competitive, at $1400. Also make sure that you have appropriate wheels for summer and winter use, as only some 16" wheels will clear these brakes and that even applies to some 17" and 18" wheels. My brake system has less clearance than the "Big Red" conversion- looks like I'm running 17" wheels year-round, but I had already planned for that. Taka BIRA System 2 UFO From t44tq at mindspring.com Tue May 14 15:37:36 2002 From: t44tq at mindspring.com (TM) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: Brake Conversion In-Reply-To: <20020514181830.14681.qmail@web10008.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000301c1fb76$6bf9a4c0$0d42fea9@newpc> Mihnea- It helps to read Dave's message in full- he already has G60s on his car, UFO conversions are not the issue. Also, your info is bad regarding the conversion- you _must_ use either UrS or late model ('92+) V8 strut bodies to accomplish the conversion, otherwise you will end up having a narrower track than OEM and you will also run into steering knuckle clearance problems if you use 10v type 44 strut bodies. By using 10v type 44 parts, you will probably also need to replace the control arms, tie rods and possibly the sway bar mounting brackets. Bad idea, IMHO. If you use C4 100 parts, you will still have the narrow track problem as well as having to verify that the single-piston Ate calipers used on the C4 100 have the same bolt spacing as the UrS G60 setup. Taka From ingo at waratap.com Tue May 14 15:39:29 2002 From: ingo at waratap.com (Ingo D. Rautenberg) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: Brake Conversion References: <20020514181830.14681.qmail@web10008.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005b01c1fb76$aeb03220$9865fea9@ingo> Mihnea writes, "Dave, you won't be able to convert your 20v's brakes that easily because of the specific UFO wheel hubs that are bigger in diameter than the other cars'..." I think you missed the part about Dave's brakes having already been converted to the UrS4/S6 US spec G-60 calipers. -Ingo --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.361 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002 From Djdawson2 at aol.com Tue May 14 15:50:40 2002 From: Djdawson2 at aol.com (Djdawson2@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: Brake Conversion Message-ID: <128.116981d4.2a12b680@aol.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Guys, Thanks for the info. Yes, the car has already been converted to G60 stuff using UrS strut housings. I'm in the process of replacing the tie rod assy's, control arms (19mm) and the swaybar and bushings. I'm going to use the 28mm bar from the late V8 4.2 car. I have 17's on the car, and don't really care if 16's will fit, so I'm looking for a good conversion that is not beyond the capabilities of the stock master cylinder. Thanks again, Dave From c_mihnea at yahoo.com Tue May 14 12:54:23 2002 From: c_mihnea at yahoo.com (Mihnea) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: Brake Conversion In-Reply-To: <000301c1fb76$6bf9a4c0$0d42fea9@newpc> Message-ID: <20020514185423.45163.qmail@web10007.mail.yahoo.com> Oops, I didn't read it all in full I guess :)) Sorry for that Dave! And I didn't know the 10v 200 strut housings made those issues, I thought everything was bolt-on.... If he has the G60 then it's alright to use the big reds directly.... Sorry once again! Mihnea --- TM wrote: > Mihnea- > It helps to read Dave's message in full- he already > has G60s on his > car, UFO conversions are not the issue. > > Also, your info is bad regarding the conversion- you > _must_ use either > UrS or late model ('92+) V8 strut bodies to > accomplish the conversion, > otherwise > you will end up having a narrower track than OEM and > you will also run > into > steering knuckle clearance problems if you use 10v > type 44 strut bodies. > > By using 10v type 44 parts, you will probably also > need to replace the > control arms, tie rods and possibly the sway bar > mounting brackets. Bad > idea, IMHO. > > If you use C4 100 parts, you will still have the > narrow track problem as > well > as having to verify that the single-piston Ate > calipers used on the C4 > 100 > have the same bolt spacing as the UrS G60 setup. > > Taka > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From knotnook at traverse.com Tue May 14 16:32:18 2002 From: knotnook at traverse.com (Kneale Brownson) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: BRAKE PRESSURE ACCUMULATOR In-Reply-To: <01C1FB39.F5B3E640.brianl@starsys.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020514153126.00c34340@traverse.com> -- Bomb recharger is Russ Sutherlin: russell.s.southerlin@lmco.com At 11:24 AM 05/14/2002 -0600, Brian Link wrote: >Where are you located. There is a guy in Colorado that does or used to >refill them with nitrogen for between $25-$50. He did mine 2 years ago and >it is still working well 30+ pumps. Check the quattro list archives under >bomb recharging. Otherwise Check with the dealer as of lately they have >been surprisingly me with lower prices. > >Brian Link >Boulder, CO. > >From: "Joshua C" >To: 200q20v@audifans.com >Subject: BRAKE PRESSURE ACCUMULATOR >Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 10:46:31 -0400 > >It seems that I need a new bomb, what is the cheapest source? Blau sells >them for 279$ has anyone found it for less? Also while I have the system >drained are there any lines etc.. I should think about replacing, the 4 >lines to the calipers are already SS. I am doing new pads and rotors as >well. hopefully this will all improve my squishy weak brakes. > > > >_______________________________________________ >200q20v mailing list >200q20v@audifans.com >http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v -- From brianl at starsys.com Tue May 14 14:33:08 2002 From: brianl at starsys.com (Brian Link) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: BRAKE PRESSURE ACCUMULATOR Message-ID: <01C1FB4B.E34BD000.brianl@starsys.com> That's him, Good guy, five stars on my recharge. -----Original Message----- From: Kneale Brownson [SMTP:knotnook@traverse.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 1:32 PM To: Brian Link; '200q20v@audifans.com'; 'smuckycat@hotmail.com' Subject: Re: BRAKE PRESSURE ACCUMULATOR Bomb recharger is Russ Sutherlin: russell.s.southerlin@lmco.com At 11:24 AM 05/14/2002 -0600, Brian Link wrote: >Where are you located. There is a guy in Colorado that does or used to >refill them with nitrogen for between $25-$50. He did mine 2 years ago and >it is still working well 30+ pumps. Check the quattro list archives under >bomb recharging. Otherwise Check with the dealer as of lately they have >been surprisingly me with lower prices. > >Brian Link >Boulder, CO. > >From: "Joshua C" >To: 200q20v@audifans.com >Subject: BRAKE PRESSURE ACCUMULATOR >Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 10:46:31 -0400 > >It seems that I need a new bomb, what is the cheapest source? Blau sells >them for 279$ has anyone found it for less? Also while I have the system >drained are there any lines etc.. I should think about replacing, the 4 >lines to the calipers are already SS. I am doing new pads and rotors as >well. hopefully this will all improve my squishy weak brakes. > > > >_______________________________________________ >200q20v mailing list >200q20v@audifans.com >http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From knotnook at traverse.com Tue May 14 16:36:50 2002 From: knotnook at traverse.com (Kneale Brownson) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: Brake Conversion In-Reply-To: <000201c1fb75$6d4fb450$0d42fea9@newpc> References: <9.27fba422.2a12aa7d@aol.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020514153231.00c33730@traverse.com> -- What distinguishes the 10vt G60's from the S4 G60's used in dealer conversions from UFO's? My 200q20v was brake-eunuched with G60's before it fell into my hands. At 02:30 PM 05/14/2002 -0400, TM wrote: >Dave- >It definitely makes a big difference in terms of the right info. > >If your car has been converted to G60s, you can pretty much use any >brake kit that is made for the UrS, including the use of RS2 caliper >brackets and EuroS8 rotors (not A8), 323x30mm to convert your car to >"Big Reds." > >You'll need the following parts: >993tt or 928GTS calipers (x2) >RS2 brake caliper brackets (x2) >Brake pad set for above calipers (x1) >New caliper mounting bolts for bracket to strut body (x4) >New caliper mounting bolts for caliper to bracket (x4) >Brake vibration dampeners (x4) >Euro S8 rotors (323x30mm) (x2) > >You may want to consider using SS brake lines as well. > >Depending on the cost of these parts, you may want to call up Tom at >Euro-Car and see if his kit if competitive, at $1400. > >Also make sure that you have appropriate wheels for summer and winter >use, as only some 16" wheels will clear these brakes and that even >applies >to some 17" and 18" wheels. > >My brake system has less clearance than the "Big Red" conversion- looks >like >I'm running 17" wheels year-round, but I had already planned for that. > >Taka >BIRA System 2 UFO > >_______________________________________________ >200q20v mailing list >200q20v@audifans.com >http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v -- From paul at clarity.net Tue May 14 16:39:38 2002 From: paul at clarity.net (Paul R. Luevano) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: To turn, or not to turn? Message-ID: <3CE167FA.55B2FFBB@clarity.net> What is the consensus on turning rotors when installing new brake pads? About to install new Mintex Red (thanks Bernie!) on the 200 (G60's). In the past I have always turned rotors when installing new pads, but thinking about it, I wonder if this is really a good idea. Rotors wear true, right? I have no grooves or scoring on my rotors. Thoughts? -- ____________________________________________________________________ Paul Luevano | AMA * MSF |'99 CBR 600F4 (Racebike) http://teamdaemon.com | USM * CCS #898|'97 CBR 1100XX (Streetbike) Waltham, MA USA | NMA #116657 |'91 200TQ20V (Winter) _____"The purpose of man is to live, not to exist."-Jack London_____ From paulfern2000 at yahoo.com Tue May 14 23:22:07 2002 From: paulfern2000 at yahoo.com (paul fernandes) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: type 44 meeting In Germany (anyone going?) Message-ID: <010001c1fb85$2f3e03a0$38ff2ec3@b0z9y9> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -- -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Hi listers, this message is going out to all the type44 owners in Europe, Anyone in the vicinity of Koln Germany is welcome to join the type 44 meeting being organized by the webmaster for the Audi100online.com The meeting is being held 25-26 / MAY-2002 in Koln Germany, complete details are listed in this link. http://www.audi100-online.de/Inhalt/Updates/_Angrillen_2002_/_Angrillen_2002__-_Info/_angrillen_2002__-_info.html for those who have followed up the FAW parts stuff I will be there along with several surprises and parts to show, so some of you know what is coming... Hope to see some of you there! Paul F. (Luxembourg) -- [ Paul Fernandes.vcf of type text/x-vcard deleted ] -- From dans at audifans.com Tue May 14 17:20:47 2002 From: dans at audifans.com (Dan Simoes) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: [s-cars] GP for Samco Hoses, Update and Inut needed! References: <32CD630F6CBED411AE180008C7894CBC0CAAD50F@lmc37.lmc.ericsson.se> Message-ID: <3CE1719F.A9584C08@audifans.com> Have you considered getting the 200q20v owners into this deal too? I assume the hoses are the same? "James Murray (LMC)" wrote: > > S-Heads, > > Ok, we have a total of 22 people that have responded asking to participate > in the GP for Samco Silicon Hoses! > I've never done this before so please bear with me...On to the next step! > > Note: We will be going with Samco for the full set, not SFS since they only > have one hose available (only one person responded to this) and Samco has > corrected the length issue so it only makes sense to go with them (cheaper, > faster, proven, etc.). > > If you are definitely "IN" on this GP for Samco Silicon hoses you NEED to > answer me back with the following: > > 1) You're full name and address or at least your location for now (for > shipping, etc.) > 2) What color do you want??? There are 7 Colors Available: Blue, Red, > Yellow, Green, Purple, Black, Orange. > 3) Do you want the chrome rings on the lower crossover pipe to intercooler? > (Yes or No) > 4) Confirm which hoses you want (a full kit or specify the exact hose, see > below to quote the number) > 5) How do you plan to pay? (Paypal or Check?) > > A few more additional questions...for those that wanted me to poll all of > you ;-) > > 6) Do we ship all these by Boat or Plane? (boat is cheapest, Plane is > fastest) or you don't care. > 7) Do you prefer to pay slightly more and have Samco ship in a box, or are > you ok with a Big Bag (cheaper). Box or Bag, or don't care? > 8) Would you be interested in having other hoses manufactured (Yes or No). > 9) If Yes to above please list the hose you'd like (for example: Radiator > hoses) > 10) Interested in SS clamps? (Yes or No) (Samco does not offer these, but > maybe another member can pull this off for us separately?). > > If there is enough interest to getting "other" hoses manufactured we can ask > either Samco or SFS to make these and hold a separate GP, let me know if you > want to host this one! Also here's a link for some clamps > (http://www.abaofamerica.com/ ) Thanks Bill > M. > > The final cost... I don't know yet. As I initially mentioned I think it will > be at least $100 US cheaper than what's on the market but I haven't yet > factored in all the variables, and I need to look into shipping costs, duty, > taxes, etc. (can anyone help me here?). > > Here is the list of Samco Hoses and part numbers: > TB735 Hose from turbo to crossover pipe & TB736 (Spout for the hose > below) > TB653 Hose from crossover pipe to intercooler > TB652 Hose from intercooler to throttle body > > What I'll do next is compile your input and try to figure out the costs and > then I'll update all of you ! > > Cheers, /James "Hoser" Murray. > _______________________________________________ > S-CAR-List mailing list > S-CAR-List@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list From t44tq at mindspring.com Tue May 14 17:38:52 2002 From: t44tq at mindspring.com (TM) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: [s-cars] GP for Samco Hoses, Update and Inut needed! In-Reply-To: <3CE1719F.A9584C08@audifans.com> Message-ID: <000c01c1fb87$5c99e1f0$0d42fea9@newpc> Unfortunately, hoses are not the same, none of them. :-( Taka From b.m.benz at prodigy.net Tue May 14 14:55:31 2002 From: b.m.benz at prodigy.net (Bernie Benz) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: To turn, or not to turn? In-Reply-To: <3CE167FA.55B2FFBB@clarity.net> Message-ID: IMO, don't turn rotors unless you wish to lighten and shorten their life. But the parts people love it! Further, don't worry about any wear ridge either side of the active surface, as it will become the natural pad wear "squeeler" when it hits the backing plate. No need for wear sensors! Bernie > From: "Paul R. Luevano" > Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 15:39:38 -0400 > To: 200TQ20V List <200q20v@audifans.com> > Subject: To turn, or not to turn? > > What is the consensus on turning rotors when installing new brake pads? About > to > install new Mintex Red (thanks Bernie!) on the 200 (G60's). In the past I > have > always turned rotors when installing new pads, but thinking about it, I wonder > if this is really a good idea. Rotors wear true, right? I have no grooves or > scoring on my rotors. > > Thoughts? > > -- > ____________________________________________________________________ > Paul Luevano | AMA * MSF |'99 CBR 600F4 (Racebike) > http://teamdaemon.com | USM * CCS #898|'97 CBR 1100XX (Streetbike) > Waltham, MA USA | NMA #116657 |'91 200TQ20V (Winter) > _____"The purpose of man is to live, not to exist."-Jack London_____ > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From b.m.benz at prodigy.net Tue May 14 14:55:31 2002 From: b.m.benz at prodigy.net (Bernie Benz) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: brake conversion-wilwood - the long and the nerdy In-Reply-To: <181.8545500.2a12a143@aol.com> Message-ID: > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Scott, I give up on this thread. Lets just say that we have a few disagreements, maybe partly caused by lack of clarity in writing, if not thinking. Regards, Bernie -- From malth at umich.edu Tue May 14 18:09:04 2002 From: malth at umich.edu (Chris Covington) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: [s-cars] GP for Samco Hoses, Update and Inut needed! In-Reply-To: <32CD630F6CBED411AE180008C7894CBC0CAAD518@lmc37.lmc.ericsson.se> Message-ID: James, Well I already have the kit from Eurocar, but I'm sure somebody else on the 200q20v list would be more interested in hosting the GP on that end. I've cced this message to 200q20v@audifans.com about it and I'm sure someone will pick it up and run with it. Chris On Tue, 14 May 2002, James Murray (LMC) wrote: > Hi Chris, > > Sure but I don't think I'm going to host one for the hose clamps. > I think one of the other members wants to host this one, but it depends on > input. > > What I can do for you is ask Samco if they have a kit for the 200q20V, from > their web site it appears as if they do, TCS147 Turbo Quattro 20v (2 hoses) > We could bundle them all together. Why not. You'll have to handle the 20V > list though... > > Cheers, /J. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Covington [SMTP:malth@umich.edu] > Sent: May 14, 2002 4:58 PM > Cc: James Murray (LMC) > Subject: Re: [s-cars] GP for Samco Hoses, Update and Inut > needed! > > James, > > Can I join in but get just the hose clamps? > > Chris > '91 200q20v already w/samco From James.Murray at ericsson.ca Tue May 14 18:11:31 2002 From: James.Murray at ericsson.ca (James Murray (LMC)) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: [s-cars] GP for Samco Hoses, Update and Inut needed! Message-ID: <32CD630F6CBED411AE180008C7894CBC0CAAD519@lmc37.lmc.ericsson.se> Taka is of course right...but according to the Samco web site they do carry the following: TCS147 Turbo Quattro 20v (2) I gather that means two hoses. Cheers, /James. -----Original Message----- From: TM [SMTP:t44tq@mindspring.com] Sent: May 14, 2002 4:39 PM To: 'Dan Simoes'; 'James Murray (LMC)'; '200 20v' Subject: RE: [s-cars] GP for Samco Hoses, Update and Inut needed! Unfortunately, hoses are not the same, none of them. :-( Taka From brett at cloud9.net Tue May 14 18:16:50 2002 From: brett at cloud9.net (Brett Dikeman) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: pump->bomb hose, reinstall, top half Message-ID: I give up...I can't get this hose back on the car. Half an hour of trying from all different angles...I even separated the two halves...no dice. Between the lower coolant hose, the two rack hoses, the radiator, the aux coolant pump, and the hanger for the two rack hoses, absolutely everything is in the way of the triangle-shaped metal bracket welded to the metal pipe. I just can't seem to get the angle right...every time I think I've got a good angle to sneak the head past the pump+radiator, the triangle bracket or the end of the pipe itself hits something. I had to undo one of the pump->rack lines just to get the hose off the car in the first place. It was a really tight fit getting it out, but it came out....and I don't remember how... Help! Brett -- ---- "They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin http://www.users.cloud9.net/~brett/ From t44tq at mindspring.com Tue May 14 18:25:14 2002 From: t44tq at mindspring.com (TM) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: [s-cars] GP for Samco Hoses, Update and Inut needed! In-Reply-To: <32CD630F6CBED411AE180008C7894CBC0CAAD519@lmc37.lmc.ericsson.se> Message-ID: <000f01c1fb8d$d69b0a50$0d42fea9@newpc> Let me note that the current Samco spec, as supplied by Euro-Car service, gives you an upper intercooler hose that is a few mm too short and not properly curved, making it a real bitch to install. I am not happy with mine in that regard. If you all are doing a group buy and can get Samco to redesign the hose to a proper specification, I'm in. I have yet to install the lower hose, so I can't tell you how bad/good that one is. Taka -----Original Message----- From: James Murray (LMC) [mailto:James.Murray@ericsson.ca] Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 5:12 PM To: 'TM'; 'Dan Simoes'; '200 20v' Subject: RE: [s-cars] GP for Samco Hoses, Update and Inut needed! Taka is of course right...but according to the Samco web site they do carry the following: TCS147 Turbo Quattro 20v (2) I gather that means two hoses. Cheers, /James. -----Original Message----- From: TM [SMTP:t44tq@mindspring.com] Sent: May 14, 2002 4:39 PM To: 'Dan Simoes'; 'James Murray (LMC)'; '200 20v' Subject: RE: [s-cars] GP for Samco Hoses, Update and Inut needed! Unfortunately, hoses are not the same, none of them. :-( Taka From rao at pixar.com Tue May 14 15:36:42 2002 From: rao at pixar.com (Arun Rao) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: pump->bomb hose, reinstall, top half In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Just unbolt and move or remove the pump, Brett ... it isn't that big a deal to get it back on. All you're likely to waste is some hydraulic fluid, and I bet you have plenty on the garage floor already ... -Arun On Tuesday, May 14, 2002, at 02:16 PM, Brett Dikeman wrote: > I give up...I can't get this hose back on the car. Half an hour of > trying from all different angles...I even separated the two > halves...no dice. > > Between the lower coolant hose, the two rack hoses, the radiator, the > aux coolant pump, and the hanger for the two rack hoses, absolutely > everything is in the way of the triangle-shaped metal bracket welded > to the metal pipe. I just can't seem to get the angle right...every > time I think I've got a good angle to sneak the head past the > pump+radiator, the triangle bracket or the end of the pipe itself > hits something. > > I had to undo one of the pump->rack lines just to get the hose off > the car in the first place. It was a really tight fit getting it > out, but it came out....and I don't remember how... > > Help! > > Brett > -- > ---- > "They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary > safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin > http://www.users.cloud9.net/~brett/ > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From malth at umich.edu Tue May 14 18:41:50 2002 From: malth at umich.edu (Chris Covington) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: [s-cars] GP for Samco Hoses, Update and Inut needed! In-Reply-To: <000f01c1fb8d$d69b0a50$0d42fea9@newpc> Message-ID: Taka et al, I agree WRT the Eurocar upper intercooler hose. You really have to work & move the intercooler forward to get it to mount, but once on there it won't blow off, that's for sure. The lower intercooler, which I've also installed, is a much better fit and seems to be functioning properly. Chris '91 200q20v On Tue, 14 May 2002, TM wrote: > Let me note that the current Samco spec, as supplied by Euro-Car > service, > gives you an upper intercooler hose that is a few mm too short and not > properly > curved, making it a real bitch to install. I am not happy with mine in > that > regard. If you all are doing a group buy and can get Samco to redesign > the hose > to a proper specification, I'm in. > > I have yet to install the lower hose, so I can't tell you how bad/good > that one > is. > > Taka > > -----Original Message----- > From: James Murray (LMC) [mailto:James.Murray@ericsson.ca] > Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 5:12 PM > To: 'TM'; 'Dan Simoes'; '200 20v' > Subject: RE: [s-cars] GP for Samco Hoses, Update and Inut needed! > > > Taka is of course right...but according to the Samco web site they do > carry the following: > > TCS147 Turbo Quattro 20v (2) > > I gather that means two hoses. > > Cheers, /James. > > -----Original Message----- > From: TM [SMTP:t44tq@mindspring.com] > Sent: May 14, 2002 4:39 PM > To: 'Dan Simoes'; 'James Murray (LMC)'; '200 20v' > Subject: RE: [s-cars] GP for Samco Hoses, Update and Inut > needed! > > Unfortunately, hoses are not the same, none of them. :-( > > Taka > > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v > From pjrose at frontiernet.net Tue May 14 18:52:09 2002 From: pjrose at frontiernet.net (Phil and Judy Rose) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: Brake Conversion In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020514153231.00c33730@traverse.com> References: <9.27fba422.2a12aa7d@aol.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20020514153231.00c33730@traverse.com> Message-ID: At 3:36 PM -0400 5/14/02, Kneale Brownson wrote: >-- >What distinguishes the 10vt G60's from the S4 G60's used in dealer >conversions from UFO's? My 200q20v was brake-eunuched with G60's before it >fell into my hands. AFAIK, the only significant difference is in the depth of the hub, therefor the rotor hat depth you'll need. The S4 hub is slightly deeper than 10V. Only way I know to tell is remove wheel and measure hub (housing) depth. It's my understanding that most (all?) UFO-G60 conversions done at dealers under warranty were with S4 struts. There could be exceptions I suppose. Sorry I can't recall the numbers (mm) involved. Phil >At 02:30 PM 05/14/2002 -0400, TM wrote: > >>Dave- >>It definitely makes a big difference in terms of the right info. >> >>If your car has been converted to G60s, you can pretty much use any >>brake kit that is made for the UrS, including the use of RS2 caliper >>brackets and EuroS8 rotors (not A8), 323x30mm to convert your car to >>"Big Reds." >> >>You'll need the following parts: >>993tt or 928GTS calipers (x2) >>RS2 brake caliper brackets (x2) >>Brake pad set for above calipers (x1) >>New caliper mounting bolts for bracket to strut body (x4) >>New caliper mounting bolts for caliper to bracket (x4) >>Brake vibration dampeners (x4) >>Euro S8 rotors (323x30mm) (x2) >> >>You may want to consider using SS brake lines as well. >> >>Depending on the cost of these parts, you may want to call up Tom at >>Euro-Car and see if his kit if competitive, at $1400. >> >>Also make sure that you have appropriate wheels for summer and winter >>use, as only some 16" wheels will clear these brakes and that even >>applies >>to some 17" and 18" wheels. >> >>My brake system has less clearance than the "Big Red" conversion- looks >>like >>I'm running 17" wheels year-round, but I had already planned for that. >> >>Taka >>BIRA System 2 UFO >> >>_______________________________________________ >>200q20v mailing list >>200q20v@audifans.com >>http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v >-- > >_______________________________________________ >200q20v mailing list >200q20v@audifans.com >http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v -- ********************************* * Phil & Judy Rose Rochester, NY * * mailto:pjrose@frontiernet.net * ********************************* From Zoot531 at aol.com Tue May 14 19:03:18 2002 From: Zoot531 at aol.com (Zoot531@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: Sucess! Message-ID: <493B1145.6F0DC24B.001C0E25@aol.com> Listers, Thanks once again for the impeccable advice. Turns out the fusible link was the culprit and after a minor fabrication session (hammering the beejeezus out of it to fit under the screws) in the home depot parking lot, a piece of 4 gauge copper wire fit the bill exactly, that is until i can replace it with the actual part. Once again, this list has proven invaluable! -- Adam Chinchiolo '91 200q20v . . . sans fever From ingo at waratap.com Tue May 14 19:08:17 2002 From: ingo at waratap.com (Ingo D. Rautenberg) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: [s-cars] GP for Samco Hoses, Update and Inut needed! References: Message-ID: <01a901c1fb93$da57b570$9865fea9@ingo> Which brings up a more important point (to me, at least). Am I the only one who fairly consistantly is leaking out the IC end caps? Yeah, I know, the K24 is due for a rebuild, but still... Aluminum end caps would be ideal. -Ingo '91 200q20v...Slightly modified '83 Urquattro ('90 v8q RIP) http://hometown.aol.com/quattringo/index.html --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.361 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002 From pjrose at frontiernet.net Tue May 14 19:15:15 2002 From: pjrose at frontiernet.net (Phil Rose) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:01 2003 Subject: [s-cars] GP for Samco Hoses, Update and Inut needed! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 5:41 PM -0400 5/14/02, Chris Covington wrote: >Taka et al, > >I agree WRT the Eurocar upper intercooler hose. You really have to work & >move the intercooler forward to get it to mount, but once on there it >won't blow off, that's for sure. The lower intercooler, which I've also >installed, is a much better fit and seems to be functioning properly. Just wondering--the motivation to go through that trouble with the upper IC hose is...what? Surely it's more than the decorator colors, right? What's the downside to using the oem MM hose, which I believe ought to last something near 100k miles? Do I grossly overestimate its longevity? Phil -- Phil Rose Rochester, NY USA '91 200q (130 Kmiles, Lago blue) '91 200q (57 Kmiles, Tornado red) mailto:pjrose@frontiernet.net From t44tq at mindspring.com Tue May 14 19:32:14 2002 From: t44tq at mindspring.com (TM) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:02 2003 Subject: [s-cars] GP for Samco Hoses, Update and Inut needed! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001701c1fb97$32d68e80$0d42fea9@newpc> Two reasons- under high boost, the hose tears and/or blows off and the second reason is that the oil in the system causes the stock rubber hose to tear. Considering that the Samco hose only costs a tad more than OEM, I don't see why anyone would buy OEM. Taka -----Original Message----- From: 200q20v-admin@audifans.com [mailto:200q20v-admin@audifans.com] On Behalf Of Phil Rose Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 6:15 PM To: 200q20v@audifans.com Subject: RE: [s-cars] GP for Samco Hoses, Update and Inut needed! At 5:41 PM -0400 5/14/02, Chris Covington wrote: >Taka et al, > >I agree WRT the Eurocar upper intercooler hose. You really have to >work & move the intercooler forward to get it to mount, but once on >there it won't blow off, that's for sure. The lower intercooler, which >I've also installed, is a much better fit and seems to be functioning >properly. Just wondering--the motivation to go through that trouble with the upper IC hose is...what? Surely it's more than the decorator colors, right? What's the downside to using the oem MM hose, which I believe ought to last something near 100k miles? Do I grossly overestimate its longevity? Phil -- Phil Rose Rochester, NY USA '91 200q (130 Kmiles, Lago blue) '91 200q (57 Kmiles, Tornado red) mailto:pjrose@frontiernet.net _______________________________________________ 200q20v mailing list 200q20v@audifans.com http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From vegener at post7.tele.dk Wed May 15 01:36:35 2002 From: vegener at post7.tele.dk (Claus Vegener) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:02 2003 Subject: [s-cars] GP for Samco Hoses, Update and Inut needed! References: Message-ID: <000b01c1fb97$ce8e99d0$0400a8c0@cvmob> Phil 100k miles? You are not running boost enough Claus ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Rose" To: <200q20v@audifans.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 12:15 AM Subject: RE: [s-cars] GP for Samco Hoses, Update and Inut needed! > At 5:41 PM -0400 5/14/02, Chris Covington wrote: > >Taka et al, > > > >I agree WRT the Eurocar upper intercooler hose. You really have to work & > >move the intercooler forward to get it to mount, but once on there it > >won't blow off, that's for sure. The lower intercooler, which I've also > >installed, is a much better fit and seems to be functioning properly. > > > Just wondering--the motivation to go through that trouble with the > upper IC hose is...what? Surely it's more than the decorator colors, > right? What's the downside to using the oem MM hose, which I believe > ought to last something near 100k miles? Do I grossly overestimate > its longevity? > > Phil > -- > > Phil Rose Rochester, NY USA > '91 200q (130 Kmiles, Lago blue) > '91 200q (57 Kmiles, Tornado red) > mailto:pjrose@frontiernet.net > > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From malth at umich.edu Tue May 14 20:04:57 2002 From: malth at umich.edu (Chris Covington) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:02 2003 Subject: Sucess! In-Reply-To: <493B1145.6F0DC24B.001C0E25@aol.com> Message-ID: Next thing to do is check the screw that holds the shifter linkage down on top of the tranny (you can get to it from under the hood) and make sure that it hasn't come loose - if so retiten and apply locktite. If I had done that I would've avoided losing 1,3,5 gears about 50 miles away from home. Chris '91 200q20v On Tue, 14 May 2002 Zoot531@aol.com wrote: > Listers, > > Thanks once again for the impeccable advice. Turns out the fusible link wa= > s the culprit and after a minor fabrication session (hammering the beejeezu= > s out of it to fit under the screws) in the home depot parking lot, a piece= > of 4 gauge copper wire fit the bill exactly, that is until i can replace i= > t with the actual part. > > Once again, this list has proven invaluable! > -- > Adam Chinchiolo > '91 200q20v . . . sans fever > > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v > From info4mjs at worldnet.att.net Tue May 14 20:31:38 2002 From: info4mjs at worldnet.att.net (Michael Stricker) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:02 2003 Subject: Limited 200q20v content-MP3's for my 200q Message-ID: <00a501c1fb9f$8af701a0$faa35a0c@m2p3d0> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Hi, Does anyone have any experience with making an mp3 cd for the newer aftermarket car radios that can play mp3's? I have this type of radio (Kenwood) in my 200q20v (mandatory, I suppose) and have a few questions for someone whose BTDT. Thanks Mike -- From b.m.benz at prodigy.net Tue May 14 17:49:26 2002 From: b.m.benz at prodigy.net (Bernie Benz) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:02 2003 Subject: [s-cars] GP for Samco Hoses, Update and Inut needed! In-Reply-To: <01a901c1fb93$da57b570$9865fea9@ingo> Message-ID: Are you leaking at the gasketed and crimped joint between the plastic end cap and the aluminum tube header? If so, you can try to find and install a V band clamp around this joint on each end. I had started a search for such, but not seriously yet. What does need for turbo rebuild have to do with IC leaks? Bernie > From: "Ingo D. Rautenberg" > Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 18:08:17 -0400 > To: "200q20v List" <200q20v@audifans.com> > Subject: Re: [s-cars] GP for Samco Hoses, Update and Inut needed! > > Which brings up a more important point (to me, at least). Am I the only one > who fairly consistantly is leaking out the IC end caps? Yeah, I know, the > K24 is due for a rebuild, but still... > > Aluminum end caps would be ideal. > > -Ingo > '91 200q20v...Slightly modified > '83 Urquattro > ('90 v8q RIP) > http://hometown.aol.com/quattringo/index.html > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.361 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002 > > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v From brianl at starsys.com Tue May 14 18:49:22 2002 From: brianl at starsys.com (Brian Link) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:02 2003 Subject: Samco vs Oem MM hose Message-ID: <01C1FB6F.AF85AEC0.brianl@starsys.com> I just wanted to chime in on this one, I agree with Phil. I am running 22+ psi of boost (I have a larger turbo than the k-24), and I had more trouble with the silicone hose blowing off than the OEM. The OEM costs approx $65 while Samco is $200+ for the pair. I do recommend using the wider style hose clamps with the lock nuts rather than the Oem due to the smaller ones tend to cut into the hose when you crank on them. In my opinion, the silicone hose was a bit too short and it became very slippery when oily and the added thickness of the silicone hose, I think, makes it harder for it to conform around the burp on the metal pipe going to the throttle body. I felt sorry for the guys doing the one lap of America in their S4, with the silicone hose popping off, I've btdt. Although losing the added hp from having a large blue hose under the hood was a little disconcerting. Btw, I have seen people use the orange aircraft type silicone hose with good success which can be had for $20/foot if I remember correctly. just my 2 cents Brian Link Boulder, CO At 5:41 PM -0400 5/14/02, Chris Covington wrote: >Taka et al, > >I agree WRT the Eurocar upper intercooler hose. You really have to work & >move the intercooler forward to get it to mount, but once on there it >won't blow off, that's for sure. The lower intercooler, which I've also >installed, is a much better fit and seems to be functioning properly. so Phil asked Just wondering--the motivation to go through that trouble with the upper IC hose is...what? Surely it's more than the decorator colors, right? What's the downside to using the oem MM hose, which I believe ought to last something near 100k miles? Do I grossly overestimate its longevity? Phil then Taka wrote Two reasons- under high boost, the hose tears and/or blows off and the second reason is that the oil in the system causes the stock rubber hose to tear. Considering that the Samco hose only costs a tad more than OEM, I don't see why anyone would buy OEM. From QSHIPQ at aol.com Tue May 14 21:05:24 2002 From: QSHIPQ at aol.com (QSHIPQ@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:02 2003 Subject: brake conversion-wilwood - the long and the nerdy Message-ID: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Bernie: I'd be happy to discuss in more detail, I enjoy your reads, but some of your opinions/theory just aren't supported by current documentation. Nothing in all these discussions is really new. What IS exciting and cutting edge, is that the virtual simulations of braking thermodynamics and design is getting closer to real measures and practical application. I encourage you to get some of the SAE papers I referenced. TTYL SJ In a message dated 5/14/02 3:55:10 PM Central Daylight Time, b.m.benz@prodigy.net writes: Scott, I give up on this thread. Lets just say that we have a few disagreements, maybe partly caused by lack of clarity in writing, if not thinking. Regards, Bernie From linust at mindspring.com Tue May 14 18:11:15 2002 From: linust at mindspring.com (Linus Toy) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:02 2003 Subject: Brake Conversion In-Reply-To: <000201c1fb75$6d4fb450$0d42fea9@newpc> References: <9.27fba422.2a12aa7d@aol.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20020514165222.00aa17b0@127.0.0.1> At 02:30 PM 5/14/2002 -0400, TM wrote: >You'll need the following parts: >993tt or 928GTS calipers (x2) >RS2 brake caliper brackets (x2) >Brake pad set for above calipers (x1) >New caliper mounting bolts for bracket to strut body (x4) >New caliper mounting bolts for caliper to bracket (x4) >Brake vibration dampeners (x4) >Euro S8 rotors (323x30mm) (x2) Can anyone confirm if there are differences: the Euro S8 rotor noted above is p/n 4D0 615 301F or J. The US-spec A8L also used a 323x30 rotor, p/n 4D0 615 301A (this is not the standard US A8 rotor, at 312x25). As both are 5x112, the only likely difference, if any, might be hat depth. Unless Audi somewhere along the line got smart about rotor venting...which brings up another point: does anyone know if either or both of these have the center (near hub) venting from the inner side (driveshaft) of rotor or outer side (wheel )? --L *--------------------------------------------------------------------* * Linus Toy Insanity is doing the same thing * * Mercer Island, WA you've always done and expecting * * linust@mindspring.com different results * * - Roger Milliken * *--------------------------------------------------------------------* From pjrose at frontiernet.net Tue May 14 21:51:55 2002 From: pjrose at frontiernet.net (Phil Rose) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:02 2003 Subject: Brake Conversion In-Reply-To: References: <9.27fba422.2a12aa7d@aol.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20020514153231.00c33730@traverse.com> Message-ID: At 5:52 PM -0400 5/14/02, Phil and Judy Rose wrote: >At 3:36 PM -0400 5/14/02, Kneale Brownson wrote: >>-- >>What distinguishes the 10vt G60's from the S4 G60's used in dealer >>conversions from UFO's? My 200q20v was brake-eunuched with G60's before it >>fell into my hands. > >AFAIK, the only significant difference is in the depth of the hub, >therefor the rotor hat depth you'll need. The S4 hub is slightly >deeper than 10V. Only way I know to tell is remove wheel and measure >hub (housing) depth. It's my understanding that most (all?) UFO-G60 >conversions done at dealers under warranty were with S4 struts. There >could be exceptions I suppose. Sorry I can't recall the numbers (mm) >involved. > >Phil Actually I meant to say: remove wheel and measure rotor hat depth. Also, the part number ought to be visible on the rotor. Phil -- Phil Rose Rochester, NY mailto:pjrose@frontiernet.net From brett at cloud9.net Tue May 14 23:14:00 2002 From: brett at cloud9.net (Brett Dikeman) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:02 2003 Subject: pump->bomb hose, reinstall, top half In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 2:36 PM -0700 5/14/02, Arun Rao wrote: >Just unbolt and move or remove the pump, Brett ... it isn't that big a >deal to get it back on. All you're likely to waste is some hydraulic >fluid, and Well, I went half way on this one. I dropped the pump enough to give me some room, and then removed ALL the hoses from it. That worked... Everything appears to be back together and not leaking too badly, and in the morning I'll clean up everything, let it dry, and run the car to make sure nothing leaks at all. I was worried that all the fittings were not clean enough, especially the one for the bomb...but it seems I kept 'em clean enough. Time will tell, of course. > I bet you have plenty on the garage floor already ... Yep, but it didn't top the Great Mobil One Flood of '00*. Note to readers: oil plug goes back in BEFORE you pour a quart of oil into engine. Those of you now laughing at me too hard to see straight (or on your way to the hospital) will miss out on the latest Brett's Wonder Tip. Special VAG Tool 666, High Pressure Pump to Bomb Line Removal Tool, can be had from the local dealer for the low, low price of only $236. This should not be confused with a normal 2-inch long piece of 2x4...this is a special German tool, soaked in the finest synthetic pentosin, ladies and gentlemen. Usage is as follows: -stuff between heat shield for driver's side engine mount and metal high pressure line -undo pressure line Done. :-) Brett *not quite on the same scale as the Boston Great Molasses Flood of 1919(killed 21 people, 12 horses, 1 cat.) -- ---- "They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin http://www.users.cloud9.net/~brett/ From irautenberg at comcast.net Wed May 15 00:30:22 2002 From: irautenberg at comcast.net (Ingo Rautenberg) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:02 2003 Subject: [s-cars] GP for Samco Hoses, Update and Inut needed! References: Message-ID: <004b01c1fbc0$d8758e80$42d22844@home> Bernie, It does appear that way and oil is what is leaking from those areas (hence the thoughts on the turbo rebuild). Will be out of town a few days. -Ingo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bernie Benz" To: "Ingo D. Rautenberg" Cc: "200q20V mailing list" <200q20v@audifans.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 7:49 PM Subject: Re: [s-cars] GP for Samco Hoses, Update and Inut needed! > Are you leaking at the gasketed and crimped joint between the plastic end > cap and the aluminum tube header? If so, you can try to find and install a > V band clamp around this joint on each end. I had started a search for > such, but not seriously yet. > > What does need for turbo rebuild have to do with IC leaks? > > Bernie > > > From: "Ingo D. Rautenberg" > > Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 18:08:17 -0400 > > To: "200q20v List" <200q20v@audifans.com> > > Subject: Re: [s-cars] GP for Samco Hoses, Update and Inut needed! > > > > Which brings up a more important point (to me, at least). Am I the only one > > who fairly consistantly is leaking out the IC end caps? Yeah, I know, the > > K24 is due for a rebuild, but still... > > > > Aluminum end caps would be ideal. > > > > -Ingo > > '91 200q20v...Slightly modified > > '83 Urquattro > > ('90 v8q RIP) > > http://hometown.aol.com/quattringo/index.html > > > > > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.361 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > 200q20v mailing list > > 200q20v@audifans.com > > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v > From fundsaloracing at yahoo.com Wed May 15 04:15:09 2002 From: fundsaloracing at yahoo.com (Fundsalo Racing) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:02 2003 Subject: [s-cars] GP for Samco Hoses, Update and Inut needed! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020515101509.47072.qmail@web13609.mail.yahoo.com> We can get the Samco hose kits for 200q20v. We also stock the special constant-torque clamps. Please respond ONLY directly to: glen@northerneuropeanautomotive.com -glen OOOO --- Chris Covington wrote: > James, > > Well I already have the kit from Eurocar, but I'm > sure somebody else on > the 200q20v list would be more interested in hosting > the GP on that end. > I've cced this message to 200q20v@audifans.com about > it and I'm sure > someone will pick it up and run with it. > > Chris > > On Tue, 14 May 2002, James Murray (LMC) wrote: > > > Hi Chris, > > > > Sure but I don't think I'm going to host one for > the hose clamps. > > I think one of the other members wants to host > this one, but it depends on > > input. > > > > What I can do for you is ask Samco if they have a > kit for the 200q20V, from > > their web site it appears as if they do, TCS147 > Turbo Quattro 20v (2 hoses) > > We could bundle them all together. Why not. You'll > have to handle the 20V > > list though... > > > > Cheers, /J. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Chris Covington [SMTP:malth@umich.edu] > > Sent: May 14, 2002 4:58 PM > > Cc: James Murray (LMC) > > Subject: Re: [s-cars] GP for Samco Hoses, Update > and Inut > > needed! > > > > James, > > > > Can I join in but get just the hose clamps? > > > > Chris > > '91 200q20v already w/samco > > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v ===== -glen OOOO "....if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one" Jesus Christ to the Eleven Apostles at the Last Supper __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From fundsaloracing at yahoo.com Wed May 15 04:30:00 2002 From: fundsaloracing at yahoo.com (Fundsalo Racing) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:02 2003 Subject: Boston area wrenches - NEA In-Reply-To: <3CE14F2F.7FA77ED2@clarity.net> Message-ID: <20020515103000.31169.qmail@web13603.mail.yahoo.com> Northern European Automotive in Concord NH. It's a bit of a ride but it's right off Rte 93 Exit 12 South of the City. NHs exclusive APR distributor and NHs only quattro specialist. We have many customers from Mass and some from NY, CT, Quebec, etc. Disclaimer: I now work there, have been a customer for 10+ years, they have sponsored my race car for 3 seasons. 603-228-0533 www.northerneuropeanautomotive.com Cheers, -glen OOOO --- "Paul R. Luevano" wrote: > Bryan Foster wrote: > > > > If anyone would like to recommend Boston area audi > mechanics that would be > > great. Got one recommendation already from a > lister. I am sure I am > > going to be needing them eventually. Thanks. > > Autobon in Cambridge. When I don't do the work, > they do. Peter has a 200 20V > Avant. > > http://www.autobon.com/ > -- > ____________________________________________________________________ > Paul Luevano | AMA * MSF |'99 CBR > 600F4 (Racebike) > http://teamdaemon.com | USM * CCS #898|'97 CBR > 1100XX (Streetbike) > Waltham, MA USA | NMA #116657 |'91 > 200TQ20V (Winter) > _____"The purpose of man is to live, not to > exist."-Jack London_____ > _______________________________________________ > 200q20v mailing list > 200q20v@audifans.com > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v ===== -glen OOOO "....if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one" Jesus Christ to the Eleven Apostles at the Last Supper __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From QSHIPQ at aol.com Wed May 15 09:18:38 2002 From: QSHIPQ at aol.com (QSHIPQ@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:02 2003 Subject: G60 Brake Interchange Message-ID: <15e.dc09910.2a13ac1e@aol.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] G60 calipers themselves are all interchangeable. The hub depth is increased on the 200tq/v8/S4-6 cars, and some differences in where the flex line attaches at the caliper (it's to a bracket with a hard line on the later cars, to the caliper directly on the early cars), and the flex line itself is a different length. As of the 91 200/90 v8 the "deep" hub G60 carrier and rotor were installed. These components are NOT interchangeable back (updating is not possible to older cars), but I suppose could be interchanged forward (the why question comes to mind tho, and wheel fitment issues could be a problem). To use a 5ktq (early) G60 setup on a 91 200> G60 car, the only part you can use is the caliper and the pad. Plus you would need the following parts: Brake line, hard line and bracket at the caliper, deep hub carrier, and deep hub rotor. HTH Scott Justusson QSHIPQ Performance Tuning In a message dated 5/14/02 4:59:36 PM Central Daylight Time, pjrose@frontiernet.net writes: At 3:36 PM -0400 5/14/02, Kneale Brownson wrote: >-- >What distinguishes the 10vt G60's from the S4 G60's used in dealer >conversions from UFO's? My 200q20v was brake-eunuched with G60's before it >fell into my hands. AFAIK, the only significant difference is in the depth of the hub, therefor the rotor hat depth you'll need. The S4 hub is slightly deeper than 10V. Only way I know to tell is remove wheel and measure hub (housing) depth. It's my understanding that most (all?) UFO-G60 conversions done at dealers under warranty were with S4 struts. There could be exceptions I suppose. Sorry I can't recall the numbers (mm) involved. Phil From knotnook at traverse.com Wed May 15 10:18:16 2002 From: knotnook at traverse.com (Kneale Brownson) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:02 2003 Subject: G60 Brake Interchange In-Reply-To: <15e.dc09910.2a13ac1e@aol.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020515091401.025b5cd0@traverse.com> -- Thanks, Scott. So what can I look at on my 200q20v that someone converted to G60's prior to my ownership to determine what I could use to improve brake performance? It looks like the important part would be the carrier??? Should I find a number on it that will confirm which type of conversion was done (ie., did they install S4 G60's or 5Ktq G60's). If I have the S4 version, can I upgrade simply or am I looking at more thousands? What about reinstalling UFO's? At 08:18 AM 05/15/2002 -0400, QSHIPQ@aol.com wrote: >G60 calipers themselves are all interchangeable. The hub depth is >increased on the 200tq/v8/S4-6 cars, and some differences in where the >flex line attaches at the caliper (it's to a bracket with a hard line on >the later cars, to the caliper directly on the early cars), and the flex >line itself is a different length. > >As of the 91 200/90 v8 the "deep" hub G60 carrier and rotor were >installed. These components are NOT interchangeable back (updating is not >possible to older cars), but I suppose could be interchanged forward (the >why question comes to mind tho, and wheel fitment issues could be a problem). > >To use a 5ktq (early) G60 setup on a 91 200> G60 car, the only part you >can use is the caliper and the pad. Plus you would need the following >parts: Brake line, hard line and bracket at the caliper, deep hub >carrier, and deep hub rotor. > >HTH > >Scott Justusson >QSHIPQ Performance Tuning >In a message dated 5/14/02 4:59:36 PM Central Daylight Time, >pjrose@frontiernet.net writes: > > >At 3:36 PM -0400 5/14/02, Kneale Brownson wrote: > >-- > >What distinguishes the 10vt G60's from the S4 G60's used in dealer > >conversions from UFO's? My 200q20v was brake-eunuched with G60's before it > >fell into my hands. > >AFAIK, the only significant difference is in the depth of the hub, >therefor the rotor hat depth you'll need. The S4 hub is slightly >deeper than 10V. Only way I know to tell is remove wheel and measure >hub (housing) depth. It's my understanding that most (all?) UFO-G60 >conversions done at dealers under warranty were with S4 struts. There >could be exceptions I suppose. Sorry I can't recall the numbers (mm) >involved. > >Phil > -- From pjrose at frontiernet.net Wed May 15 11:11:55 2002 From: pjrose at frontiernet.net (Phil Rose) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:02 2003 Subject: G60 Brake Interchange In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020515091401.025b5cd0@traverse.com> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020515091401.025b5cd0@traverse.com> Message-ID: At 9:18 AM -0400 5/15/02, Kneale Brownson wrote: >Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-542565B6; >charset=us-ascii; format=flowed >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > >Thanks, Scott. So what can I look at on my 200q20v that someone >converted to G60's prior to my ownership to determine what I could >use to improve brake performance? It looks like the important part >would be the carrier??? Should I find a number on it that will >confirm which type of conversion was done (ie., did they install S4 >G60's or 5Ktq G60's). If I have the S4 version, can I upgrade >simply or am I looking at more thousands? What about reinstalling >UFO's? There should be a number stamped on the rotor. The correct p/n for the S4/(and post-91 V8) type rotor is 441 615 301A. The older (shallow hub) version is 301**B**. If there's no number on your rotor, you need to make a measurement of hat depth. As I recall, the difference in hat depth is small (perhaps no more than 10mm?) Phil >At 08:18 AM 05/15/2002 -0400, QSHIPQ@aol.com wrote: > >>G60 calipers themselves are all interchangeable. The hub depth is >>increased on the 200tq/v8/S4-6 cars, and some differences in where >>the flex line attaches at the caliper (it's to a bracket with a >>hard line on the later cars, to the caliper directly on the early >>cars), and the flex line itself is a different length. >> >>As of the 91 200/90 v8 the "deep" hub G60 carrier and rotor were >>installed. These components are NOT interchangeable back (updating >>is not possible to older cars), but I suppose could be interchanged >>forward (the why question comes to mind tho, and wheel fitment >>issues could be a problem). >> >>To use a 5ktq (early) G60 setup on a 91 200> G60 car, the only part >>you can use is the caliper and the pad. Plus you would need the >>following parts: Brake line, hard line and bracket at the caliper, >>deep hub carrier, and deep hub rotor. >> >>HTH >> >>Scott Justusson >>QSHIPQ Performance Tuning >>In a message dated 5/14/02 4:59:36 PM Central Daylight Time, >>pjrose@frontiernet.net writes: >> >> >>At 3:36 PM -0400 5/14/02, Kneale Brownson wrote: >>>-- >>>What distinguishes the 10vt G60's from the S4 G60's used in dealer >>>conversions from UFO's? My 200q20v was brake-eunuched with G60's before it >>>fell into my hands. >> >>AFAIK, the only significant difference is in the depth of the hub, >>therefor the rotor hat depth you'll need. The S4 hub is slightly >>deeper than 10V. Only way I know to tell is remove wheel and measure >>hub (housing) depth. It's my understanding that most (all?) UFO-G60 >>conversions done at dealers under warranty were with S4 struts. There >>could be exceptions I suppose. Sorry I can't recall the numbers (mm) >>involved. >> >>Phil -- Phil Rose Rochester, NY mailto:pjrose@frontiernet.net From QSHIPQ at aol.com Wed May 15 11:12:44 2002 From: QSHIPQ at aol.com (QSHIPQ@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:02 2003 Subject: G60 Brake Interchange Message-ID: <1ad.24aada8.2a13c6dc@aol.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] In order to use the 5ktq setup on a 200 tq (I'm assuming UFO>G60 conversion?), you have to change the outer driveshaft as well (the hub assemblies aren't the same), and the control arm would also need to be changed to the early style (which also means you needed the 5ktq upright and 5ktq ABS sensor). I really doubt this was done. My bet (of course you are getting what you pay for, "blind service" here), you have the late style, the easiest way to ck is the strut on the 5k application uses a allen screw to mount the ABS sensor from the bottom, the 200/S4 strut uses a press in ABS sensor. Not sure why you'd want to change to the UFO's, but to go back you need the UFO upright (I'm sure you can get those cheap). WRT brake "upgrades" the only difference in application between the S4 and 5ktq is the mounting depth of the hat, and the location of the caliper in the bracket, btdt on both. My only *warning* would be that using a 5ktq control arm on a 200tq upright is a major no-no. The ball joint diam on the 5ktq control arm is smaller than the 200tq/v8/s4. The scarey part is that everything willl bolt up, but the play in the ball joint is too much. I went thru this on Waterloo's ex-200tq, a well known parts vendor sent the wrong C/A's. Ouch, was most pleased I was drinking hightest coffee at the time..... HTH SJ QSHIPQ Performance Tuning In a message dated 5/15/02 8:17:53 AM Central Daylight Time, knotnook@traverse.com writes: Thanks, Scott. So what can I look at on my 200q20v that someone converted to G60's prior to my ownership to determine what I could use to improve brake performance? It looks like the important part would be the carrier??? Should I find a number on it that will confirm which type of conversion was done (ie., did they install S4 G60's or 5Ktq G60's). If I have the S4 version, can I upgrade simply or am I looking at more thousands? What about reinstalling UFO's? From mik at info.fundp.ac.be Wed May 15 17:28:42 2002 From: mik at info.fundp.ac.be (Mihnea Cotet) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:02 2003 Subject: G60 Brake Interchange In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020515091401.025b5cd0@traverse.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20020515091401.025b5cd0@traverse.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020515162646.01e3e280@backus.info.fundp.ac.be> >There should be a number stamped on the rotor. The correct p/n for >the S4/(and post-91 V8) type rotor is 441 615 301A. The older >(shallow hub) version is 301**B**. If there's no number on your >rotor, you need to make a measurement of hat depth. As I recall, the >difference in hat depth is small (perhaps no more than 10mm?) FWIW, there's about the same difference between a type 89 Coupe quattro and 90 quattro front G60 rotor. The coupe's total rotor height is 57mm while the 90q's is only 51. And there's also been some change in PN's during the '89 or '90 model year IIRC. Just wanted to add my 0.02 Euro :-) Mihnea From t44tq at mindspring.com Wed May 15 11:31:21 2002 From: t44tq at mindspring.com (TM) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:02 2003 Subject: G60 Brake Interchange In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020515091401.025b5cd0@traverse.com> Message-ID: <000801c1fc1d$2f708940$0d42fea9@newpc> Kneale- If your car has been converted to G60s from UFOs, you cannot reinstall UFOs without replacing the strut assemblies. The calipers are the same, you really don't have to be concerned about whether they are 5ktq or S4 G60s- they won't mount if you use the wrong carriers. If you're looking at improving brake performance, I suggest looking into slotted rotors, upgraded pads (such as Pagids), good brake fluid (Ate Super Blue is a good starting point). Otherwise, you really should look into going to Porsche brakes. Taka From jbeer at BooseCasey.com Wed May 15 13:21:21 2002 From: jbeer at BooseCasey.com (Beer, Jerald) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:02 2003 Subject: G60 Brake Interchange Message-ID: When I did my UFO to G60 swap (liked the UFO's but that is another story) we used 5k G60's because they were readily available at $0 and I did not change the struts. Had machine shop make up adapter bracket that bolted up to strut. Time was involved in sizing the bracket, but it ended up fitting fine. Used for 2 or so years. I ran that setup, track and street. Switched to Wildwoods because the G60's were marginal for track, although not bad for -normal- street driving with good pads... Regards, Jerry 91 200qa From sidman at montereynet.net Wed May 15 10:59:15 2002 From: sidman at montereynet.net (George Sidman) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:02 2003 Subject: 200q20v digest, Vol 1 #922 - 13 msgs References: <20020515143010.E0BE636B@www.audifans.com> Message-ID: <3CE293E3.A1F9BB18@montereynet.net> My '91 200 TQW has developed a vacuum leak in the black box tucked up behind the glove box. This is the one with 6 vacuum lines and an electrical connection. When I turn off the air system, the hiss stops, but becomes audible when the system is in any on position. I removed and opened the box, but could see nothing obvious. Any BTDT????????? -- George Sidman, President Monterey Network Center sidman@montereynet.net 831. 657. 1500 From msvphoto at pacbell.net Wed May 15 11:03:43 2002 From: msvphoto at pacbell.net (Motor Sport Visions Photography) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:02 2003 Subject: pump->bomb hose, reinstall, top half Message-ID: <3CE294EF.7FBBDD0B@pacbell.net> In a message dated 5/14/2002 Brett Dikeman writes: << Yep, but it didn't top the Great Mobil One Flood of '00*. Note to readers: oil plug goes back in BEFORE you pour a quart of oil into engine. >> Glad to hear you got it back together Brett! Your comment above reminds me of the great Kendell GT1 floods of the late 1980s I suffered from several times in my (pre-children years) 1977 911S. It suffered from recurring oil cooler failures (nobody, including the legendary 911 Tech Bruce Anderson, could figure out why). Each time the cooler failed the car dumped a full 12 quarts in short order. One of the times it did I was so p***ed off at the car I just drove it that way to my mechanic's shop a mile or so away spewing like the Exxon Valdez. A California Highway Patrolman followed me there the last half of the way trying to pull me over to tell me I was spewing oil and smoke, but I just went for it not wanting to waste any time getting the car there before shutting it down. The CHP officer was actually quite kind and understanding, and was on his way as soon as he realized what was up (try that today and you'll likely be declared a superfund site). No harm done to the engine (thankfully). I had a real love/hate relationship with that car lemme tell ya, my last (of 3) "P-car." It has been Audis ever since for me (not counting my wife's ovloVs). Mike Veglia Motor Sport Visions Photography http://www.motorsportvisions.com From knotnook at traverse.com Wed May 15 14:45:17 2002 From: knotnook at traverse.com (Kneale Brownson) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:02 2003 Subject: 200q20v digest, Vol 1 #922 - 13 msgs In-Reply-To: <3CE293E3.A1F9BB18@montereynet.net> References: <20020515143010.E0BE636B@www.audifans.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020515134056.025beb30@traverse.com> -- Could be the vacuum servo or its connecting vacuum line popped off in the evaporator box that's just beyond the opening behind the glove box that goes to the evap box for recirculating "conditioned" air. I THINK that if you take off the door that seals the cabin (two screws and the connector for the spring if I remember correctly), you can see the vacuum bulb that's supposed to hold the recirculation doors open during A/C operation. The vacuum line to that bulb sometimes comes off. At 09:59 AM 05/15/2002 -0700, George Sidman wrote: >My '91 200 TQW has developed a vacuum leak in the black box tucked up >behind the glove box. This is the one with 6 vacuum lines and an >electrical connection. When I turn off the air system, the hiss stops, >but becomes audible when the system is in any on position. I removed >and opened the box, but could see nothing obvious. Any BTDT????????? >-- >George Sidman, President >Monterey Network Center >sidman@montereynet.net >831. 657. 1500 >_______________________________________________ >200q20v mailing list >200q20v@audifans.com >http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v -- From Djdawson2 at aol.com Wed May 15 15:01:33 2002 From: Djdawson2 at aol.com (Djdawson2@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:02 2003 Subject: Brake Conversion Message-ID: <73.1fa82c58.2a13fc7d@aol.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] After all the brake discussion... Does anyone know of a good source for the calipers? I'm thinking monoblock, following the discussion on flex (my car will prolly never see those extremes, however). From what I understand, the monoblocks used on the Boxster "S" have the same mounting dimensions as the Big Reds... anyone know if this is true. Finally, I didn't know what BIRA was all about, but finally found it on the web. Is this a good way to do this less expensively and fast? Anyone know why they discontinued the "system 6" described as using 345mm rotors? Any help/advice/input appreciated, Dave From charlie at istari.com Wed May 15 13:28:58 2002 From: charlie at istari.com (Charles Baer) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:02 2003 Subject: Brake Conversion Message-ID: <3CE2A8EA.E12D0E25@istari.com> System 6 isn't discontinued, 4 (the 323mm euro S8s that Linus referred to) and 5 (the 345mm rotor) are. There was a lot of noise about the missing 1mm of disc width per side the caliper used being "terribly dangerous design". Yeah, right. Lack of demand also led to their demise. Crescent City has usually had very good prices among the sellers commonly referenced for the OEM parts. Charlie > -----Original Message----- > From: Djdawson2@aol.com [mailto:Djdawson2@aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 12:02 PM > To: linust@mindspring.com; t44tq@mindspring.com > Cc: 200q20v@audifans.com > Subject: Re: Brake Conversion > > > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > After all the brake discussion... Does anyone know of a good > source for the > calipers? I'm thinking monoblock, following the discussion > on flex (my car > will prolly never see those extremes, however). From what I > understand, the > monoblocks used on the Boxster "S" have the same mounting > dimensions as the > Big Reds... anyone know if this is true. > > Finally, I didn't know what BIRA was all about, but finally > found it on the > web. Is this a good way to do this less expensively and > fast? Anyone know > why they discontinued the "system 6" described as using 345mm rotors? > Any help/advice/input appreciated, > Dave From t44tq at mindspring.com Wed May 15 15:36:06 2002 From: t44tq at mindspring.com (TM) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:11:02 2003 Subject: Brake Conversion In-Reply-To: <73.1fa82c58.2a13fc7d@aol.com> Message-ID: <001601c1fc3f$60b09910$0d42fea9@newpc> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Dave- Crescent City Motors is probably the best place to buy calipers- www.crescentcitymotors.com Talk to Earl or one of the other guys there, they are very helpful and friendly- make sure you tell them that you found them online and you're one of the crazy Audi guys. :-) If you don't tell them that you're out of town, they'll quote you the regular counter prices. I can't tell you whether the bolt pattern is the same, but I can measure my 996 calipers for you this weekend, if you like. I caution you that if you're running 16" wheels that you should probably get the 993tt calipers instead of the 996 monoblocks, because it appears that there is less wheel clearance with the monoblocks. System 4 and 5 were discontinued, for lack of interest. System 6 is definitely up and running- Porsche 993tt rotor rings w/ custom hats and 996tt monoblock calipers. BIRA is definitely a good way to go, although you may want to see whether the quasi RS2 upgrade using RS2 brackets will work better for you depending on wheel clearances and such, as well as cost. Is this for a '91 200q20v? I'm a BIRA member, happily running on Sys2UFO. Taka -----Original Message----- From: Djdawson2@aol.com [mailto:Djdawson2@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 2:02 PM To: linust@mindspring.com; t44tq@mindspring.com Cc: 200q20v@audifans.com Subject: Re: Brake Conversion After all the brake discussion.