[urq] Re: 10 vT EM? - high-flow MAF meters?

Fundsalo Racing fundsaloracing at yahoo.com
Thu May 9 04:25:11 EDT 2002

Would it be of interest to anyone if I could source a
high-flow MAF meter? Also applicable to 3B and AAN

Please respond ONLY to:

glen at northerneuropeanautomotive.com




--- QSHIPQ at aol.com wrote:
> --
> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> In a message dated 4/30/02 4:36:40 PM Central
> Daylight Time, jiipm at sci.fi
> writes:
> >But I´m answering only for my one, because J does
> not
> >actually have a collector, but 5 runners joined and
> mine
> >has a "long" tube where they join...Just for
> velocity...
> That makes little sense to me.  The way
> collector/nozzle theory works, is you
> have a ratio of runner diameter to throat diameter.
> Without purposely
> picking a ratio you could actually create more
> reversion than velocity.  Did
> you use any math in your design.  What target did
> you go after?
> >Please, I would like to disagree and ask:
> >
> >1: What is big K-24 cold side?
> hot side wheel stays the same size.  IMS there are a
> couple choices for the
> cold side wheel and housing.  Commonly referred to
> as the "k24 sport", the
> cold side wheel is of a different design and the
> scroll is slightly larger as
> well.  This "upgrade" puts more cfm on the turbo map
> for a given PR.
> >2. You say: not a big difference btw RS-2 and K-24
> hot side?
> >
> >RS2 has 55 mm turbine dia at exducer and K-24 46
> mm, IMHO
> >it is a big difference. ( 45 mm is for 200-250 HP
> and 55 for
> >250-350 HP ) . IMO K-24 cold side is good for some
> 300 HP )
> You create more backpressure as you increase
> effective compression ratio or
> volumetric efficiency of the motor.  At 2.1 liters
> and 10v, your backpressure
> is acceptable with the k24 running within it's
> designed MAP.  A stock k24
> turbo from the 20vt might be good for 300 peak, but
> not constant.  Constant
> the CFM numbers work out to no more than 280 (being
> optimistic with the rest
> of the DR/VE equation).
> >Those small ones work, but with lots of
> backpressure and not
> >too smooth.
> What is "not too smooth"?  Backpressure might
> increase slightly, but
> performance increases dramatically.  Doing back to
> back testing on the k26
> water cooled (56.3mm exducer) to the k24 on my 83
> urq, smoothness at low and
> midrange is much improved, and high end gives
> little, if anything (again the
> restriction is the CIS, not the turbo/EM on the urq)
> to the k26.
> Interestingly Jukka, if you look at the exducers the
> RS2 has a smaller
> exducer than the audi k26 10v turbocharger unit.  So
> exducer size is a guide,
> but hardly THE only reference.
> >What You want the engine do: blow the motor or flow
> the gas :))))
> I want the engine, specifically the car, to PERFORM.
>  IF we use EFI, a lot of
> options open up.  USING the CIS as a given, the 10vt
> urq is really well
> matched to the k24, not the k26 that was supplied
> with it.
> >An original 24 cold side is about 43mm, but there
> is no good
> >variations, so the K-26 is a good solution. Here we
> have seen it
> >with 50 compressor/ 55 turbine K-26 as a good one (
> RS-2 has a
> >K-? with 48/55 ) also a hybrid with K-27´s smallest
> compressor
> >( 53 ) has been succesful. All later 26:s seem to
> have 55 turbine.
> >( I´m now working with a Bimmer 745i with stock
> 64/53 K-27 )
> I played with RS2's with bigger cold sides.  The hot
> side is well match to
> the I5 up to the 400hp mark (you can get a RS2 to
> flow 700cfm with different
> wheel and housing combos).  Beyond that, the
> backpressure becomes a factor,
> but some reduction in that can be found by cutting
> the hot side wheel.  This
> does create a loud turbo whine, obviously
> Porsche/Audi would accept that in
> the RS2 car.  I drove Graydon's efi conversion years
> ago, and the k27
> application of it, definitely had low end
> performance lag.    WRT 745i, when
> you have more displacement k27's work well.  The
> biggest problem we urq
> owners have, is 2.1L of displacement is a given, and
> to most, so is the CIS
> and the IC.  WITH those givens, the k24 is most
> acceptable, I dare say, even:
>  Recommended.
> When you venture into the 20vt, things change some,
> BUT, you must eliminate
> the biggest restriction in the system to really
> dictate a turbo larger/better
> than the RS2; that being the MAF meter.  Ditching
> the motronic is a huge pill
> to swallow, and modifiying it at a reasonable cost
> also appears to have a
> large bill attached to that hat.  Up to 400hp, the
> RS2 performs well, which
> is about the max of the MAF meter anyhow.
> What you and Javad appear to be doing is going to
> the restrictions, then
> coming back to the turbo.  Great!  Right now, I have
> Javad's EFI in my shop,
> but working it to handle a CIS turbo to EFI turbo
> swap (as apposed to CIS n/a>
> EFI turbo swap it was designed for).  After we get
> that running, I might
> consider a turbo swap, but given the MAP of the RS2
> turbo, the EFI with a
> mongo intercooler (the app I'm working on) appears
> to be a fine 10vt
> expectation.
> >I started this thread, just to get some other
> ideas, than mine for a
> >fiver project, but looks like we are "quite" far
> away;))
> No problem, we are only "far" away because there are
> very few that are doing
> EFI conversions to CIS turbo cars.  Once we can get
> that done, quite a few of
> us would be happy to get closer and share EM BTDT.
> Scott Justusson
> QSHIPQ Performance Tuning
> Chicago Illinois
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