brake conversions for 200q20v - wilwood (& I'm gone)
Michael (Prospeed Motorsport)
michael at prospeedmotorsport.com
Mon May 13 10:29:26 EDT 2002
First Keith, if you make parts (brake kits) for Audis, you have a vested
interest to dispute me.
Second, on eh Winston Cup circuit the dominate caliper is Brembo. Pro
Systems, the largest Brembo racing distributor in the world provides
caliper/rotors and service to approximately 41 Winston Cup teams. The
other 9 teams are running Alcon calipers and rotors. No Wilwoods in
On the F1 scene, the dominate caliper is AP which was purchased last
year by Brembo.
The Wilwood calipers just aren't in the same league as the other major
brands. There are many reports of the difference between them and the
majors. The most frequent report I hear is you can feel the flex in the
caliper under braking. The Wilwoods are used where cost is a MAJOR issue
and the sacrifice in quality is less critical. When the Wilwood 6 piston
caliper retails for $377 and the Brembo is $3000.
As to the manufacturer recommendations . . . Maybe I should have stated
the major caliper manufacturers HIGHLY recommend NOT using a racing
style (no dust boot) caliper for a street application. They DO NOT say
the say thing about xdrilled rotors.
I do know about brakes. It is basically the only thing I do. I would
NEVER recommend or sell a racing style caliper to a customer for a
street application. You are certainly free to do so if you choose.
BTW, I just saw/read some of the follow up posts to this thread from
over the weekend . . . Scott did not "...serve (me) a plate of humble
pie" I just gave up on the thread. Scott's techniques of shims, while
mechanically effective, go against the practices of every major racing
brake service provider out there. (Pro Systems, TrueChoice, North
American Race Parts, etc.) IF you have to use shims to make the pads fit
correctly, then the system was not engineered correctly in the first
I'm outa here . . . Every time I try to offer some expert help on brake
systems and the right vs. wrong way of doing things, someone takes to me
to task. Unlike Scott and others, other than a few (very few) 968
pieces, the only thing I do 50+ hrs a wk is work on calipers and brake
systems. I speak on a regular basis with the engineers that work every
weekend with Winston Cup, IRL, CART and other racing series. I get my
info from both those folks and my first hand experience.
Just because some of you don't like the truth, because you sold your
customers improperly engineered or jury rigged caliper/rotor
combinations, and/or are selling components that were NEVER designed for
a specific (street) application isn't my fault. And doesn't change the
facts of the case.
If you want brake info, contact me directly as I will not be on this
list any longer.
Michael G. Wachholz
1735 Norfolk Avenue
Saint Paul, MN 55116
mailto:michael at prospeedmotorsport.com
> > None of the major caliper manufacturers, Brembo, AP,
> Alcon, Lockheed, Girling, etc. make or recommend using a caliper
> dust boots on a street car.
> They don't recommend using cross-drilled rotors for the
> street either, as a safety issue. Wanna take a poll of how
> many listers convienently disregard that particular item?
> > There is also a reason why the Wilwoods are so inexpensive
> . . . They are not in the same league as Brembo, AP or Alcon. You get
> > pay for.
> Do you have test data to back that up? FYI, the dominate
> brake in all levels of NASCAR is Wilwood. The top classes
> have a minimum race weight of 3800lbs, are limited to a 15"
> wheel, and the hand built chassis can cost over $100,000.
> These cars race on road courses, superspeedways, and 1/2 mile
> ovals for up to 600 miles. Now with those requirements why
> would owners like Roush, Yates, Penske, and Childress, who
> can afford any brake in the world, equip their cars with an
> inferior product? Subject $100,000 race cars to hazard to
> save a few hundred dollars? Put the safety of drivers at risk
> for the same reason? Please explain this, I'm dying to hear
> your expert opinion on the subject.
> > FWIW, you can find used Porsche S4 calipers for $400/pr. And there
> > are many suppliers of aftermarket rotors that are 32 mm (1.25")
> > thick.
> > I don't make anything for Audis, so no vested interest here.
> I do make things for Audi's and I dont put my customers at
> risk with inferior products. If you dont like what I offer,
> fine, but please refrain from making uninformed and unfounded
> statements about a product which you obviously know every
> little about.
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