[s-cars] More on audi wheel bolts/studs/torque
robert at s-cars.org
Mon Oct 21 14:38:33 EDT 2002
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
I'm well aware that you were one of the nay-sayers. All I can relate is my
experience and my experience, in spite of your advice to the contrary, has
been only positive. What do you have to lose by giving it a try other than
perhaps a little bit of work removing the stuff if you aren't pleased with
the result? Who knows, you might even become convinced. :-)
At 01:01 PM 10/21/02, QSHIPQ at aol.com wrote:
>I'm one of the ones that said NO! Robert. IME with antiseize, it can only
>compound, not alleviate anything wrt torquing wheels. A bolt torque
>(unless otherwise specified - IE head bolts for instance) are "dry"
>specification. ANY use of a lubricant on wheel bolts will change that
>torque specification. To what? I have no idea. But I have seen wheels
>with A/S on them get loose. YMMV? It could, but contrary to your
>experience, my customers using it hasn't been so good with A/S.
>I really see no need for A/S, it's name means exactly what it's designed
>to do. In the case of a wheel bolt or nut, a clean thread should and will
>provide a good clamping force on a hub. If A/S were a recommended Audi
>procedure, you'd see it in a TSB somewhere (Stabilant-22 is mentioned, A/S
>isn't anywhere that I can find), or on wheels from the factory, or
>addressed somewhere OEM or aftermarket. I have never seen it. As a
>shop guy, I'd never put A/S on bolts, cuz there is NO documentation to
>support it's use, nor is it a standard and routine Audi/any marque
>procedure. Audi has several references to loctite on parts that it's used
>as a sealant, not a "locking" compound per sae.
>As a race car/crew guy, I'd never use it, nor have I *ever* seen it. With
>proper torquing of clean threaded wheel nuts/bolts/hub, there is NO need
>for it. Most folks start using it after standing on a foot breaker bar to
>loosen bolts. That's not an A/S problem, that's a corrosion problem that
>all aluminum wheel cars with steel hubs and wheel bolts (+ infrequent
>wheel change intervals) are famous for. If you remove a wheel bolt, and
>it's corroded, it either should be replaced, or minimally cleaned. The
>hub can be cleaned with a wire brush in minutes, so can the mating surface
>of a wheel.
>When this subject came up on the qlist years ago, several indicated
>"success" with using A/S. I personally avoid it like the plague, and have
>never stripped a wheel bolt or nut from "not" using it, and use a common
>and recommended cleaning procdure only with the same success (er my *1*
>Robert, you are adding another component to the heat cycle and dry torque
>clamping forces. This torque wrench procedure IMO, has nothing to do with
>"coating" bolt/stud threads, it has everything to do with heat cycles,
>wheel change frequency, torque and the relationship between them. I just
>don't see how A/S is going to *help* anything, you've only changed to an
>unknown wet torque.
>My dry torque on the subject.
>In a message dated 10/21/2002 11:16:36 AM Central Daylight Time,
>robert at s-cars.org writes:
>Would it be possible for you to evaluate whether or not antiseize might
>alleviate the loss of torque problem.
>Here's my story: I have done a number of wheel changes at the change of
>season when I replace winter tires/wheels with summer tires/wheel. In
>every instance, after driving the car for a few miles, I found that the
>wheel bolts needed retorqueing. I finally applied some copper containing
>antiseize to the bolts and since then have never had to retorque after a
>wheel change over.
>I have heard all sorts of statements relating to "NEVER use antiseize on
>wheel bolts!" IME, I've been satisfied with the results. Would this be
>worth a try for your car? At worst you will need to clean off some grease
>from the bolts and their mating parts. At best your problem might be
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Robert L. Myers 304-574-2372
Rt. 4, Box 57, Fayetteville, WV 25840 USA WV tag Q SHIP
'95 urS6 Cashmere Grey - der Wunderwagen ICQ 22170244
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