[s-cars] More on audi wheel bolts/studs/torque

iain.atkinson at tesco.net iain.atkinson at tesco.net
Mon Oct 21 22:45:45 EDT 2002

Ok so why in my dealership in the UK do the techs put anti seize on the wheel bolts then????

I can understand the logic for race car applications but the average man in the street isn't going too impressed when he has to change a wheel in the pissing rain in the middle of winter and can't get the bolts off because they have seized on. We all know that the standard wheel changin kit in cars is pathetic, thats why all sensible q listers keep a decent sized breaker bar and torque wrench in the boot!!!!

> From: Robert Myers <robert at s-cars.org>
> Date: 2002/10/21 Mon PM 05:38:33 GMT
> To: QSHIPQ at aol.com,  urq at audifans.com,  quattro at audifans.com,
> 	s-car-list at audifans.com,  v8 at audifans.com,  200q20v at audifans.com,
> 	audi20v at rennlist.org
> Subject: Re: [s-cars] More on audi wheel bolts/studs/torque
> --
> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> I'm well aware that you were one of the nay-sayers.  All I can relate is my
> experience and my experience, in spite of your advice to the contrary, has
> been only positive.  What do you have to lose by giving it a try other than
> perhaps a little bit of work removing the stuff if you aren't pleased with
> the result?  Who knows, you might even become convinced.  :-)
> At 01:01 PM 10/21/02, QSHIPQ at aol.com wrote:
> >I'm one of the ones that said NO! Robert.  IME with antiseize, it can only
> >compound, not alleviate anything wrt torquing wheels.  A bolt torque
> >(unless otherwise specified - IE head bolts for instance) are "dry"
> >specification.  ANY use of a lubricant on wheel bolts will change that
> >torque specification.  To what?  I have no idea.  But I have seen wheels
> >with A/S on them get loose.  YMMV?  It could, but contrary to your
> >experience, my customers using it hasn't been so good with A/S.
> >
> >I really see no need for A/S, it's name means exactly what it's designed
> >to do.  In the case of a wheel bolt or nut, a clean thread should and will
> >provide a good clamping force on a hub.  If A/S were a recommended Audi
> >procedure, you'd see it in a TSB somewhere (Stabilant-22 is mentioned, A/S
> >isn't anywhere that I can find), or on wheels from the factory, or
> >addressed somewhere OEM or aftermarket.  I have never seen it.    As a
> >shop guy, I'd never put A/S on bolts, cuz there is NO documentation to
> >support it's use, nor is it a standard and routine Audi/any marque
> >procedure.  Audi has several references to loctite on parts that it's used
> >as a sealant, not a "locking" compound per sae.
> >
> >As a race car/crew guy, I'd never use it, nor have I *ever* seen it.  With
> >proper torquing of clean threaded wheel nuts/bolts/hub, there is NO need
> >for it.  Most folks start using it after standing on a foot breaker bar to
> >loosen bolts.  That's not an A/S problem, that's a corrosion problem that
> >all aluminum wheel cars with steel hubs and wheel bolts (+ infrequent
> >wheel change intervals) are famous for.  If you remove a wheel bolt, and
> >it's corroded, it either should be replaced, or minimally cleaned.  The
> >hub can be cleaned with a wire brush in minutes, so can the mating surface
> >of a wheel.
> >
> >When this subject came up on the qlist years ago, several indicated
> >"success" with using A/S.  I personally avoid it like the plague, and have
> >never stripped a wheel bolt or nut from "not" using it, and use a common
> >and recommended cleaning procdure only with the same success (er my *1*
> >exception noted:).
> >
> >Robert, you are adding another component to the heat cycle and dry torque
> >clamping forces.  This torque wrench procedure IMO, has nothing to do with
> >"coating" bolt/stud threads, it has everything to do with heat cycles,
> >wheel change frequency, torque and the relationship between them.  I just
> >don't see how A/S is going to *help* anything, you've only changed to an
> >unknown wet torque.
> >
> >My dry torque on the subject.
> >
> >SJ
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >In a message dated 10/21/2002 11:16:36 AM Central Daylight Time,
> >robert at s-cars.org writes:
> >
> >
> >Scott,
> >
> >Would  it be possible for you to evaluate whether or not antiseize might
> >alleviate the loss of torque problem.
> >
> >Here's my story:  I have done a number of wheel changes at the change of
> >season when I replace winter tires/wheels with summer tires/wheel.  In
> >every instance, after driving the car for a few miles, I found that the
> >wheel bolts needed retorqueing.  I finally applied some copper containing
> >antiseize to the bolts and since then have never had to retorque after a
> >wheel change over.
> >
> >I have heard all sorts of statements relating to "NEVER use antiseize on
> >wheel bolts!"  IME, I've been satisfied with the results.  Would this be
> >worth a try for your car?  At worst you will need to clean off some grease
> >from the bolts and their mating parts.  At best your problem might be
> >eliminated.
> >
> >
> >
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> Bob
> *****
>   Robert L. Myers   304-574-2372
>   Rt. 4, Box 57,  Fayetteville, WV 25840 USA   WV tag Q SHIP
>   '95 urS6  Cashmere Grey - der Wunderwagen    ICQ 22170244
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> *****
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