[s-cars] More on audi wheel bolts/studs/torque

Fred Munro munrof at sympatico.ca
Mon Oct 21 23:10:10 EDT 2002

What's this, true confessions for the antiseize set?

Up here in salty Ontario, antiseize is essential if, after a year's service,
you ever hope to remove a nut or bolt you've installed without resorting to
the flame wrench. If the part doesn't call for Loctite, it gets a liberal
dose of antiseize on all of my vehicles. I've been doing this for years, and
years, and years..well, you get the picture. I've never had a wheel bolt/nut
loosen off unintentionally, but I don't track my car (aside from the
occasional ice race, and hot wheels aren't exactly a problem there).
And even worse - dare I say it - I put antiseize (ah, the horror, the
horror) ON MY SPARKPLUG THREADS. Guess what - they don't loosen up either. I
check their torque every oil change, since this is a common AAN problem, and
was with my car until I began using antiseize on the plugs. Maybe the
"extra" torque is enough to keep them tight, who knows?

Whew, I feels good to get that off my chest! Thanks, Bob, for starting this
cathartic thread :o)

Fred Munro
'94 S4

-----Original Message-----
From: s-car-list-admin at audifans.com
[mailto:s-car-list-admin at audifans.com]On Behalf Of Robert Myers
Sent: October 21, 2002 1:39 PM
To: QSHIPQ at aol.com; urq at audifans.com; quattro at audifans.com;
s-car-list at audifans.com; v8 at audifans.com; 200q20v at audifans.com;
audi20v at rennlist.org
Subject: Re: [s-cars] More on audi wheel bolts/studs/torque

[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
I'm well aware that you were one of the nay-sayers.  All I can relate is my
experience and my experience, in spite of your advice to the contrary, has
been only positive.  What do you have to lose by giving it a try other than
perhaps a little bit of work removing the stuff if you aren't pleased with
the result?  Who knows, you might even become convinced.  :-)

At 01:01 PM 10/21/02, QSHIPQ at aol.com wrote:

>I'm one of the ones that said NO! Robert.  IME with antiseize, it can only
>compound, not alleviate anything wrt torquing wheels.  A bolt torque
>(unless otherwise specified - IE head bolts for instance) are "dry"
>specification.  ANY use of a lubricant on wheel bolts will change that
>torque specification.  To what?  I have no idea.  But I have seen wheels
>with A/S on them get loose.  YMMV?  It could, but contrary to your
>experience, my customers using it hasn't been so good with A/S.
>I really see no need for A/S, it's name means exactly what it's designed
>to do.  In the case of a wheel bolt or nut, a clean thread should and will
>provide a good clamping force on a hub.  If A/S were a recommended Audi
>procedure, you'd see it in a TSB somewhere (Stabilant-22 is mentioned, A/S
>isn't anywhere that I can find), or on wheels from the factory, or
>addressed somewhere OEM or aftermarket.  I have never seen it.    As a
>shop guy, I'd never put A/S on bolts, cuz there is NO documentation to
>support it's use, nor is it a standard and routine Audi/any marque
>procedure.  Audi has several references to loctite on parts that it's used
>as a sealant, not a "locking" compound per sae.
>As a race car/crew guy, I'd never use it, nor have I *ever* seen it.  With
>proper torquing of clean threaded wheel nuts/bolts/hub, there is NO need
>for it.  Most folks start using it after standing on a foot breaker bar to
>loosen bolts.  That's not an A/S problem, that's a corrosion problem that
>all aluminum wheel cars with steel hubs and wheel bolts (+ infrequent
>wheel change intervals) are famous for.  If you remove a wheel bolt, and
>it's corroded, it either should be replaced, or minimally cleaned.  The
>hub can be cleaned with a wire brush in minutes, so can the mating surface
>of a wheel.
>When this subject came up on the qlist years ago, several indicated
>"success" with using A/S.  I personally avoid it like the plague, and have
>never stripped a wheel bolt or nut from "not" using it, and use a common
>and recommended cleaning procdure only with the same success (er my *1*
>exception noted:).
>Robert, you are adding another component to the heat cycle and dry torque
>clamping forces.  This torque wrench procedure IMO, has nothing to do with
>"coating" bolt/stud threads, it has everything to do with heat cycles,
>wheel change frequency, torque and the relationship between them.  I just
>don't see how A/S is going to *help* anything, you've only changed to an
>unknown wet torque.
>My dry torque on the subject.
>In a message dated 10/21/2002 11:16:36 AM Central Daylight Time,
>robert at s-cars.org writes:
>Would  it be possible for you to evaluate whether or not antiseize might
>alleviate the loss of torque problem.
>Here's my story:  I have done a number of wheel changes at the change of
>season when I replace winter tires/wheels with summer tires/wheel.  In
>every instance, after driving the car for a few miles, I found that the
>wheel bolts needed retorqueing.  I finally applied some copper containing
>antiseize to the bolts and since then have never had to retorque after a
>wheel change over.
>I have heard all sorts of statements relating to "NEVER use antiseize on
>wheel bolts!"  IME, I've been satisfied with the results.  Would this be
>worth a try for your car?  At worst you will need to clean off some grease
>from the bolts and their mating parts.  At best your problem might be
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  Robert L. Myers   304-574-2372
  Rt. 4, Box 57,  Fayetteville, WV 25840 USA   WV tag Q SHIP
  '95 urS6  Cashmere Grey - der Wunderwagen    ICQ 22170244

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