Hoppen 3B ecu mod and 3.0 bar PT's

Mihnea Cotet mik at info.fundp.ac.be
Wed Apr 2 22:37:15 EST 2003


I don't want to bug you but I'll chime in, without trying to advertise for
myself, consider my post as a simple lister's post (well, the a simple
lister who knows quite a few things).

At 11:57 2/04/2003 -0800, Linus Toy wrote:
>Re:  3.0 bar PT in a 3B:  Go back and read Todd Phenneger's post from
>yesterday on IA mods for Alex N's 4ktq race car.  A 3.0 bar PT will NOT gain
>you anything with a stock turbo--turbo is too far out of its efficiency
>range to work past 2.5 bar--even there, it's at its limit.

False from the start. The K24 might be outside its 75% efficiency range but
it can still provide with torque at the RPMs where we're talking increasing
boost, i.e. between 2500 and 3500 RPM and there is the difference between a
an AAN MTM 2.5 Bar chip and a 3.0 Bar chip, the difference is 40 Nm torque,
due to increased boost from 1.4 to 1.65 Bar in that RPM range. Then if it's
so useless, why does Ned still sell a 3.0 Bar upgrade for stock AAN engines
with stock turbos?

>Can you get code that would let a 3.0 bar PT work with a stock turbo?
>possibly.  But...Remember that all a PT does is translate Pressure 0-250 kPa
>or 0-300 kPa) to voltage (0-5 VDC).  Based on this (and other) input, the
>ECU calls up some combination of fuel injector duty cycle, wastgate
>frequency valve duty cycle, and ignition timing.

Sorry to say that, I know you've been on these lists for much longer than I
and so on but with all due respect, THIS IS BULLSH*T! A 20vt Motronic ECU
*doesn't* compute fuel/timing based on PT input, has never done so and will
never do so, period.
All the PT does in the ECU is control boost, i.e. the WGFV. Then, code can
be made to work with a 1.0 Bar through 5.0 Bar PT if so one desires and if
one knows how to reprogram the chips.

>There are only so many
>lookup combinations available in the maps...you'd probably be throwing away
>a bunch of them using a 3.0 Bar PT with a little K24, and it might be such a
>mismatch that it won't work right

Another typical BS from someone who's never seen a chip's contents, nor
their maps actual (timing, fuel, corrections, boost and WGFV) values. If
you want me to prove what I'm saying, I can do so, but please believe me
one doesn't "throw away" maps because he's installing a 3.0 Bar PT with a
stock K24. An ECU can't "throw away" maps, it would be very unfortunate if
such things happened... :-)

>--that is, you may have a combination of
>parts that exceeds the dynamic limits of the ECU and its abiilty to control
>the engine.

Say what? The dynamic limits of the ECU???? And what are these if I may beg
your pardon? Oh man, c'mon on, you don't know what you're talking about but
you're playing the expert!!!!

>Re:  Socket & IA mod:  Not sure if Ned's changed anything recently, but when
>he modified my ECU, he removed the stock sockets and replaced them with his
>own "socket" device which scrambled or altered the timing/addressing of the
>memory chips.  I once came across a German electronic vendor's site with
>this type of scrambling technology, specifically for chip-tuners.  So...yes,
>there are still sockets in the ECU, but no, you cannot replace with stock

Agreed for the stock chips part for on scrambler sockets but BS for the
scramblers. I know from a guy who works for that famous company who does
these sockets, and who also does and sell BTW the world's most used chip
tuning software, i.e. the software I and at least a few hundreds of tuners
(I mean the guys who know their stuff,not the resellers or copiers) in
Europe are using, that no scrambler socket can resist a good quality eprom
programmer. It's all a matter of data access speed and hence your 20 bucks
ebay programmer can't read a chip through a scrambler socket, but a good
programmer will with no problems.

>Besides which Ned erases and reprograms the original chips in your ECU with
>the new code.  This is a good thing in that the standard off the shelf chip
>cannot handle the extremes of the automotive environment--there is no
>cooling fan or venting of the ECU case!  As I understand it, the pecking
>order of chip "grades" (and this is rough) is consumer electronic,
>industrial, automotive, then military.  I'm sure someone can add details

Agreed and not agreed. The original chips are indeed of much higher quality
than the "commercial" grade chips but commercial grade chips aren't a
problem, period. And FWIW, military grade chips are also still available
from their respective manufacturers.

>Re:  mod the crap out of a 3B:  you better have a big fat wallet that you
>are prepared to see get very small :)

No comments here.

No offense intended to anyone but some things are totally wrong and I had
to tell the truth. If you think I am wrong and should not say my version
anymore again, I'll shut up, unsub and stay on the q-list talking wheel
bearings and cam upgrades, maybe this is more politically correct from
someone who's not Ned, i.e. who's not God himself. Yeah right!


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