benswann at comcast.net
Wed Jul 2 12:10:40 EDT 2003
I hope my more carefully worded for DTE-13 as a suitable subtitute for
the more expensive Pentosin brand has caveats noted.
Adding to what you say below, DTE-13 does not have quite the range of
Pentosin, but should suffice to meet the objectives of owners who
maintain their vehicles in normal climates. The substitute may fall
short in subfreezing temps(like 30 deg. F below 0) or in very very hot
conditions(like Hell or the Sahara desert). Also, the flash point is a
little lower(don't remember exactly), but still sufficiently high so as
not to be a source of underhood fires if a leak develops and drips onto
hot manifold. For those who have concern, look up Pentosin
specifications and compare with Mobil DTE-13 Specifications online -
you will see they are very close.
I don't believe contamination or lack of refinement would be a problem
with the DTE-13M, and IMO it is better to flush out even a new/rebuilt
rack with the DTE-13M than to shortcut by just getting by with filling
the system with brand-name Pentosin. I mention this, because when
replacing a rack recently, a lot of smooze( short word for oooey grody
muck) came out of the rack. We used close to a gallon of DTE-13M to
flush the system 'til clean fluid was running through. That would have
been a rather costly procedure with Pentosin at even $17 a qt.
So although it is not identical, the substitute should work just fine,
especially if you are a DIYer not suffering from FWS (fat wallet
syndrome - thanks Bernie). I can certainly understand that Dealers and
Service centers may not want to follow this, as they can always pass
the extra cost onto the customer. I don't beleive using Pentosin brand
produces superior results, otherwise we'd have steering racks that last
forever and no one would talk about the problems with steering racks -
granted they do seem to last well over 100Kmi, but probably you'ld get
nearly same results with the substitute, especially if you found it
more cost effective to periodically purge the old fluid and fill with
nice clean stuff.
With about 4 gal of DTE-13M still in the garage.
[Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 08:23:33
To: quattro at audifans.com
From: Mike Arman <armanmik at earthlink.net>
Subject: Mobil DTE-13M
>>And recommendations from
>>Shell T 32 6792
>>....$30.00 for 5 gallons
>> Ford tractor's Hydraulic Oil.
>>Could someone please give me a final recommendation ?
>>I got this from a lister.
>>If you use anything but the correct fluid or mix anything with it, in
about>>two>>months you may also need in addition to a rebuilt pump, a
new/rebuilt rack,>>a few hoses, and, a brake booster.
>>Ah, that sounds like Tom Chudinzski('EPIFORM').
And it also sounds like me . . .
Problem is this - the "gurus" on this list understand that yes, you can
substitute DTM-13M under a set of very specific circumstances, i.e.,
you're changing the rack next month anyway, and/or it isn't very hot or
very cold where you are, etc.
But when the "word" gets out to less seasoned listers that DTM-13M (or
whatever) is the inexpensive and correct substitute for Green Gold,
people will run DTM-13 instead, and MOST of them will probably get away
with it .
. . and then one day, the local FLAPS is out of DTM-13M, and the parts
monkey says "Well this is about the same", and in fact it is not, and is
even FURTHER from the Pentosin specification than the DTM.
Now we are *two* steps removed from what should be in the car, and
thingsare going to get spooky. Suppose the "equivalent replacement"
does attack the rack seals or the booster diaphragm? And the car is
involved in an accident becuase the brakes were not working correctly?
And some sharp lawyer who knows something about Audi discovers you were
running the wrong hydraulic fluid and makes a case that the accident is
therefore YOUR fault . . . negligence . . . $$$$$$$$$$ . . . . and
worse, if someone is hurt or killed as a result of this . . .
Phil Payne had the right answer - "Fix the leaks!". Sure, it is a PITA
to do so, but really, that is the only way to keep from going broke
buying Pentosin. While I have flirted with the idea of a cheaper
substitute, I realize that Audi didn't specify Pentosin because it is
expensive, but because it DOES THE JOB CORRECTLY.
This is brakes and steering, guys - not good places to cheap out!
>Fact is- I, alone with a number of other listers, are happily using
>DTE-13M. I've been doing it for 2 years or so in my 200q20v-
>Cobram's been using it in a fleet of 4-5 cars for many years.
>Beware that DTE-13M has a lower hot temp limit and a higher cold pump
>limit compared to synthetic pentosin, which is far superior(it has a
>cold pump temp that's WELL below zero degrees F etc.) DTE-13M is NOT
>equivalent, and if you live where it gets more than 10 degrees below
>freezing or over 90 degrees F, you're probably best off sticking with
I rest my case . . .
More information about the 200q20v