[Audi20V_Kruemmer] Extrude Hone, prices?
QSHIPQ at aol.com
QSHIPQ at aol.com
Wed Sep 17 05:24:26 EDT 2003
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Ok, I'll lob some EH quattro btdt, since between myself and a few nuts
customers, a lot of experience here, as well as wallet enlightenment on both sides
of the counter.
DO NOT EH COMPRESSOR HOUSINGS OF TURBOS. BTDT years ago. The problem is
that you increase the clearances between the wheel and housing, you get a turbo
that whistles alot, but actually reduces output quite measurably. I wasted a
damn fine RS2 comp cold side looking in vain for this "increase". For a while
afterwards I used this shiny piece to hold down flying invoices when I opened
the garage door....
I've done a couple of intake manifolds on S4/S6's. Not claiming a damn
thing, but it stays shiny. I've done a couple of exhaust manifolds on 10vt as well
as 20vt. Waste of money doing anything to the EM's of either car. Same
with coatings on the interior of the EM's, exterior coatings are a waste as well,
but I digress. Any EM work will get black soot like material on it within
1000 miles, and will perform just like a stocker. Further POR, Ned stopped EH
of his EM's shortly after his first run of them. It also changes the nozzle
ratios, which isn't good. It also makes really sharp edges at the nozzle
convergences which tend to break off and chip turbo hot sides, btst.
My own conclusion over the years with this process... The Extrude hone
process of the IM appears to be the only component that will actually give better
numbers on the torque and HP side of a given turbo car. The reason I make no
claim of it tho, is that I'm pretty convinced that fine tuning the components
vs chip on any given S car could probably yield the same results. EH of heads
is probably second (maybe first depending on what else is on motor) on the
list of good things to do, but the rule of thumb on either heads OR IM's is that
you want to do your porting FIRST, then Extrude hone. This process and it's
benefits have been around a long time. Somewhere I have a racecar engineering
article that compares this stock silicon silly putty process to the 30year
Ruf artisans, and EH was within a couple percent on flow and HP.
Spend your EH dollars wisely. Every race team that wins is familiar with the
process, most just don't easily share these secrets to speed.
QSHIPQ Performance Tuning
In a message dated 9/14/2003 10:54:55 AM Central Daylight Time,
mlped at qwest.net writes:
AFAIK, Extrude Hone is a proprietary process of the Extrude Hone company.
At one time, @ 2 -3 years age, there was a US competitor, I can't recall the
name, but I believe it was a fairly large corporation that decided to "get
out of the business." The story I heard was that they sold their machinery &
tooling to an employee who relocated their process to Florida some place,
but I was never able to track the successor organization down. There is
also a group in Australia, Abrasive Flow Engineering, that have come up with
their own version of extrude honing. http://www.abrasiveflow.com/
AFAIK I've yet to see any "quantifiable" numbers, i.e. like before vs. after
numbers off a dyno, but.... FWIW, the process was used by Ford on several of
its SVT project cars to purportedly meet designated design goals, i.e. the
SVT Coutour V6 engine for one. Sometime ago, AutoSpeed did a write up on
the Australian process in which, if I recall, efforts were made to quantify
changes using an engine dyno and an ?? old truck or tractor motor? In the
case of the Ford SVT motors, the intake manifolds are a rather complex
forms, &I would guess at least if not more importantly much more "lengthy"
in terms of the intake runners as compared to our UrS4 intake runner
manifolds. Ford/SVT were so hot on the process that, at one time, if you
had proof of Ford SVT Cobra ownership, Extrude Hone would give SVT owners
something like a 10% discount on the process. Abrasive Flow Engineering's
site reports ".... Flow charts listed soon...." The AutoSpeed article was
"Power Porting" at http://www.autospeed.com/A_0622/cms/article.html
Some "general" performance claims for the process are outlined in
Andrew and Albert have appointed a number of Melbourne-based agents, and the
results here have also been significant. Blue Chip Tuning has, as an
example, played with a VN Commodore 5.0-liter engine whereby in stock trim
the engine delivered 193 rwhp, however with ECU recalibration, twin cat
exhaust system and Power Ported inlet manifold it developed 235 rwhp!
Developments continue and are gaining pace. A Power Ported Tickford XR8
inlet manifold resulted in an average 53 cfm per runner increase..."
Perhaps more controversial claims regarding the process, and consequently
maybe of greater interest to the S-list are
hummmmm 20% I guess we could all skip the TO4E 46 to 50+ trim "upgrade"
and just extrude hone the fat turbo bastard :-)
Turbulence for low end torque? Why? How is that supposed to work?
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