[BiturboS4] RE: New S4
Dave_Edwards at iOra.com
Fri Sep 27 10:19:19 EDT 2002
Well actually no.
The torque curve of the V8 engine is quite clear: The peak torque of only
slightly higher than the biturbo is exactly that - a peak at about 3500rpm.
Either side of this it is lower than the biturbo for much of the rev range,
particularly at the 1850rpm or so when the biturbo starts working.
As we all know, the main advantage of the NA V8 is it's power at high revs.
Whilst the 2.7TT starts running out of puff from 5500rpm, the V8 will be
really flying, all the way to the peak at 7000rpm.
My point is that the NA V8 will only be better than the 2.7TT for some
drivers, but not others. Since the V8 is about the same mass as the 2.7TT,
and since Audi is not going to use a lot of aluminium, the new S4 will be
heavier than the old (although probably not by much). Audi have already
given figures 0-60 times that are about the same as the old S4 does. Clearly
the new S4 will do better than the old at high speeds, but at lower speeds
the better torque band of the 2.7TT will be an advantage over the new S4. Of
course that's just my theory and opinion, I'll have to wait until next
spring to see if I'm right when I test drive the car.
In any event, I'm sure most of you are the same as me that you want your
next car to be a LOT better than your S4, not just about the same or a bit
better. Although it's still early to say, but there's enough evidence now to
suggest that the RS4 will be a version of the engine from the RS6, and that
it will be available in the US. My only concern is that it will be an
auto-box like the RS6. Hopefully the technical problems which have been
implied as the reason why the new S4 will ONLY be available as a manual,
could mean that the next RS4 will be manual too. (Although considering how
good the RS6 is supposed to be, I might be inclined to buy an auto RS4
For me the decision is even clearer as the new S4 will not be as good as my
modified 2.7TT S4: I have about the same power as the new S4 up to my
7000rpm ish redline (I'm not sure if the V8 will rev higher but I don't
really care), but not only do I have about 40% more peak torque than the V8,
but it has a broader range too. For me the new S4 would be a step down, so
it has to be the new RS4 for me.
Regarding pricing I think you're right. Audi have listed the price of the
new S4 well below the M3 (by about $6000 in the UK, I'm not certain about
Germany). Used S4 prices must undoubtedly fall unless the supply of the new
S4 is limited. Based on reports of how many RS6s will be supplied to the US,
I'm guessing that Audi intends to flood the market.
To anyone who's looking to buy an S4 in the US, my recommendation will be to
wait until the used prices fall and pick up a bargain. Then mod it like mine
so it's better than the new S4. If the turbos fail then with the money
you've saved just put in the RS4 turbos and you've got a (stock) RS4 beater.
All the time you've been leaving the ever-depreciating new S4s (and M3s)
behind on the road ;-)
We're more fortunate in the UK: Only 500 RHD S4's will be supplied to the UK
each year. S4's are quite rare here anyway so hopefully our used S4 prices
won't be hurt much.
From: billbachman at att.net
To: jysap at cs.com
Cc: biturbos4 at audifans.com
Subject: Re: [BiturboS4] Rumor(s) Behind The New S4
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 12:29:53 +0000
I think your comments are spot on. Particularly the pricing issue.
There is something to be said re: the "V8" issue - the torque & HP being RI=
GHT THERE IN YOUR FACE. Don't have to wait even a microsecond for it to
Prices will go down for current S4's, so just enjoy 'em.
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