[Es2] Opinions? stick with the 5 or go 4?

Ben Swann benswann at comcast.net
Fri Dec 15 01:18:07 EST 2006

I'm not about to give you advice on how to run your life or suggest you quit
your daily $ making job, but happy to express my opinions on Audis and engine
swaps based on my relative experience.


I think the 1.8T is a great motor, but don't think you'll get as serious
torque as you will out of the 5Cyl.  I'd say stay the course and do a 20V
5Cylinder - it is a better engine with better lubrication system, inherently
balanced and capable of making more torque and HP.


I don't understand why you say the 7A blocks are no good for you - are they
wasted?  A basic teardown and rebuild with new bearings, rings. Seals, etc. is
not that difficult of an undertaking.  You've already got the 3B pistons and
crank.  You can balance the pistons and come up with a tight revving engine.
The head can be easily overhauled and will net good flow with a mild port and
polish.  Or you can go with the 7A internals and use a thicker head gasket
such as available from 034efi and you can drop the compression down enough to
turbocharge.  You can build your own EFI system like Megasquirt or use one
already put together - such as 034efi.


Also, don't plan on making money off this unless you contract with someone to
do a swap on their car - you will likely lose your time and money.  Do it for
yourself and once you are comfortable doing the swaps, then you'll be able to
guage how much to charge for parts and labor.  I am putting an ES2 together
and despite carefully scoping out the parts and a car for some time have a
spreadsheet that is so far in the $17k range already and that doesn't include
the brakes and other niceties.  So if I planned to turn the car for profit,
I'd have to be able to sell it in the $25k range just to recoup my parts cost
and labor.  I'm doing it for myself however, and will have a very nice
conversion which I plan to keep as my ultimate vehicle.






[Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 19:11:10 -0500

From: <livinotte at cox.net>

Subject: [Es2] Opinions?  stick with the 5 or go 4? (very long)

To: Es2 at audifans.com


Hi guys.


I figured I post on this list because usually there's intelligent answers
without the bull crap.  I'm in the process of buying a 1.8T code AEB from an
audi a4.  It will include the whole long block, intake manifold, fuel rail,
throttle body, flywheel setup etc, for $350.00.  It's an impound car, that
seemingly had nothing wrong with it.  I won't know till i get the engine but
getting it with other accessories is possible too.   I was considering the
option of installing this vs a 5 cylinder in my sedan.  I was thinking:  1.8T
engine with a audi 80 new radiator, v6 radiator support and fans with
standalone engine managment.  Probably 034efi.com stuff.   The swap is pretty
easy.   I was going to build a exhaust manifold and turbo setup myself, engine
mounts are a 50% chance in my opinion of bolting up to the stock mounts.   The
overall project is relatively simple.


Now here's the kicker.  I started collecting 20vT 5 cylinder parts for the
sedan.   I have:  3b intake manifold, fuel lines, fuel rail, exhaust manifold,
throttle body, s2 throttle body cable, aby intercooler, 3b oil and water
lines, 3b water manifold, aby intercooler/ hoses etc..  I basically have a
complete mechanical 20vT setup including 3b pistons and rods but I don't have
an actual motor.   I have 3 7a heads, but all need rebuilds, I have two 7a
blocks but are no good for use to me.   I was thinking I could sell the 1.8T
setup for at least $1000.00 if not 1500.00 or more depending on how much parts
I wanted to buy off of this place.


I'm in the process of finishing the coupe quattro 20vT.   It's just about
done, it needs a better brake setup, and I need to finish the exhaust, and I
might source a s2 bumper for it vs the fiberglass unit that currently on it.  


I'm moving to a new garage starting january 1st 2007.  It's going to hopefully
open alot of new doors for me.  I want to sell both cars.  I'd love to get
into the house flipping business at some point in my life time.  I'm thinking
that the money from both cars will be a decent amount of cash for working on
the houses.  I don't really need a downpayment because I'm going to be a first
time buyer.   I'm a carpenter by trade, but its' not exactly my cup of tea.
I'm really good at what I do, but eh.. mixed emotions.   Having an environment
that about flipping houses is more of what I'm looking for in life.   the
whole running around Rhode island like a nut starts to suck, going from house
to house.   I'm cool with it, since it's family and all, but I'd like to see
where I can take this mind of me.


So back to the 5 cylinder stuff.


I know I can get more money from the coupe quattro with the s2 aby transplant
vs how much money I can make with the sedan.   I've swapped over to a 5/112
conversion on the sedan(hopefully get the front hubs on this weekend), and
have been fixing up any of the particular maintance problems.


What I'm thinking of doing is dropping the 1.8T engine into the sedan,
hopefully make at least 300hp and hopefully get around 10,000 plus for it when
all is said and done.


I'll take the money from both cars and build another coupe quattro with a 5
cylinder 20vT swap as quickly as possible, within the idea that I'd do it


I think 5 cylinder 20vT swap are most desirable in the coupes.  


Does this make sense?  Am I really out of my mind, or do I have a legitimate
reason/way of making some cash.


It's been a great learning experience work on cars, I'd like to keep it going.
I'm just tossed on the idea of if it's stupid or not to keep investing money
into cars that are "rare" and starting to be considered? old?   I've got alot
of coupe quattro parts left.   I still have a new windshield sitting in the
basement, two doors, rear windows, transmissions, gosh and soo much stuff.
My mind is like a library of schematics.   I take apart harness and put them
back together like it's nothing.   I've got the whole bottom of the aux relay
panel memories in my head pratically.


Do I take this life style and keep going with it.. or stop in my tracks and
get out of working on audis?


I'm hoping that starting january 1st my welding takes off.   I haven't done
much lately, but It's an amazing thing to be that I'm very attractive too.
My parents went to RISD to be honest.  I've always had an art background.  The
whole welding thing fits me.   What can I do with it?  A good amount of stuff.
I can see some of the benifits of working on houses too with it.  I've bought
a Miller dynasty 200 dx ( tig and stick)  It's a wonder portable machine.  I'd
like to make the most of it.


There are days when working on cars is great, and then there are the days when
I'd rather not be under a car.   I be honest here and say that I asked my last
girlfriend to marry me but that didn't pan out.   I'm not ready for another
relationship nor is marriage in my mind any time soon.   My mind lights up
with the idea of making some $$$$ and getting by in life.  Did I mention i'm
close to being a scratch golfer too?   Maybe teach golf some day too.  Who


I haven't seen the internals of the engine yet.  Alot of my choices will be
based on how this 1.8T engine pans out.    But I guess I'm looking for
opinions/ something that maybe makes my head.. ahhhha..


I won't work for a dealership, being a mechanic is not my thing.   I like the
idea of control and I feel out of control with something like becoming a
mechanic, nevermind the carpentry business?  Yes, I'm sitting on a good family
business.  I know I've got something to fall back on, I also know the stress
of it, and finding work.  Especially around Christmas time it can be a pita.
I haven't worked in 3 weeks, but I also asked for it.


If I were to build some cars and get moving for maybe the next 5 years.  Is
there life still in the URQs? audi coupe quattro's etc?


U tell me?



Josh Leonti]



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