'77 Audi Fox Turbo

Kaklikian, Gary Gary.Kaklikian at compaq.com
Thu Jan 4 10:02:21 EST 2001

I agree that, in most cases, stock brakes with the proper pads and rotors
(vented & slotted) are adequate for street use ... provided you stay under
triple digit speeds and avoid really hard use on downhill canyon roads.
But, on the other hand, it is prudent to upgrade the brakes and tires prior
to any other component when modifiying a car. For high-performance street
use and club track events, there are no rules. 

An exception to this is the UrS car. Given its near 2-ton mass and
performance potential  (125mph stock  or nearly 150mph with only stage 1
chip & speed limiter removed), the stock brakes are totally inadequate.  For
normal street driving they're OK, but why have a S4 in the first place if
you can't really DRIVE the car? Yes, I stilll have the stock G60's on mine,
albeit with good rotors, Porterfield 4S pads, and fresh brake fluid, but
only because I can't afford the Porsche brakes right now.  But, I drive the
car within the LIMITS imposed by the brakes.

You really can't compare the brake requirements for normal street use with
high-performance street use or track use.  Even autocross with it's short
duration and low speeds is not nearly as demanding of the brakes as
high-speed street use, let alone track use.

I went with some inexpensive 4-piston aluminum calipers (Outlaw) on my 4000
turbo because I use it on the track frequently.  The calipers and pads were
inexpensive ($160ea, ~$50/set), so it was a much more cost-effective upgrade
than the Porsche route ($2k).  Plus, I lost 10lbs unsprung weight per wheel
vs. the G60's they replaced.  
I use a street compound pad normally, but swap in a race compound set for
track use.  Even though the aluminum calipers dissipate heat much better
than the G60's,  I still use homemade cooling ducts on the track to minimize
fade. I also use cryogenically treated slotted rotors since they work much
better with the race pads. For the street?  A good street pad, standard
rotors, no cooling ducts is sufficient.

 You want ridiculous? Look at the Jan issue of Automobile magazine. $5000
brakes for a Suburban, not including  the 17" wheels/tires required to fit
them. Evidently, this conversion makes this SUV a competent high-performance
vehicle!?  How about something more reasonable - like 85mph speed limiters -
for these barges?

Gary Kaklikian
86 4ktq
92 S4

> ----------
> From: 	Iain Mannix[SMTP:mannix at privatei.com]
> Sent: 	Wednesday, January 03, 2001 9:52 PM
> To: 	JShadzi at aol.com
> Cc: 	quattro at audifans.com
> Subject: 	Re: '77 Audi Fox Turbo
> There's nothing *wrong* with Alex's brakes.  He likes them.  Fine.  
> Great.  Cool.  
> However, to say that the stock brakes are inadequate is flawed - 
> the stock brakes can be made to work fine; that's my point(I must 
> have bad aim or something, as some seem to be missing it:).  The 
> stock brakes, in decent condition, should NOT fade with one 
> hard stop, that's ridiculous.  Unsafe, even - if Audi 80 brakes 
> really did(normal operation) fade with one hard stop, there'd 
> be a Nader committe after them as we speak.  I simply 
> do not believe that the 80s brakes are THAT bad.  The 92 GTI 
> 16v weighs 2400# or so, has 9.4" vented rotors, simplistic 
> calipers - and it stops just fine, repeatedly, etc etc etc. A 
> smidge faster than an 80, too.  
> Whatever:).  All I'm saying(or trying) is that the idea that the 
> 80s brakes are SO bad that Briaembowood brakes are necessary.
> Cars, again.  I like modifying cars.  I (personally, IMHO, not 
> trying to belittle, get over it:) do not like modifying 
> street cars beyond reliable, easy power (WG springs and whatnot).  
> I spend most of my automotive energies on autocross cars - most 
> recently a Street Prepared Scirocco, a few Rabbits before that, 
> and we're currently putting together an E Prepared Rabbit(sorta 
> like GT5 for roadracer types, Street Prepared is closer to 
> IT).  It is TOTALLY unnecessary, but a whole lot of fun.  The 
> Rabbit is going to be a monster - 1680#, roughly 180hp, 
> good front suspension, cage, etc. 
> Modifying cars for fun is great.  Do I need to spend all sorts 
> of time this weekend stripping the body to a shell?  No.  Do I 
> want to?  Yes.  Will it be fun?  Absolutely.  Do I need 
> a stupidfast Rabbit in order to spend tons of time and money 
> wandering around old airstrips?  Somehow, I doubt it, but it is 
> a good time.  
> Need vs want - necessity vs luxury.  I have no problems with 
> luxuries, but don't try to justify them based on neglected 
> brakes:).  
> That help?

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