2.3L NG conversion in my 84 4KQ

Swann, Benjamin R. (BSWANN) BSWANN at arinc.com
Wed Jul 18 12:08:38 EDT 2001

Javad and all ye experienced engine swappers,

I may be wrong, but I coulda swore that the higher compression came from the
head, but don't have the info. in front of me right now, and of course may
have been given incorrect information previously.  

Can anyone else verify what Javad is saying.  

I'm not trying to refute, or prove anyone wrong on any of this.  Only that
this would be new information for me, and would to possibly change some of
my engine swap strategies, both now, and in the future.

Question again is:  In the NG/NF engine setup, does the higher compression
come from the Block and Pistons, or from the Head, or is it a combination of
the two?

Again, I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong, and I admit have given some
bogus information on this list before, and always like to set the record
straight.  This is a great way to learn, and sometimes is hard to swallow if
you give or go on incorrect information, so I'd appreciate to get some
confirmation on the answer to this question.


p.s. sorry to keep all of the prior posts with this reply, but I think it is
important to understand what we have been discussing..
-----Original Message-----
From: JShadzi at aol.com [mailto:JShadzi at aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 10:56 AM
To: BSWANN at arinc.com; mdg3369 at altavista.com
Cc: quattro at audifans.com; ReD4000QuATTRo at aol.com
Subject: Re: 2.3L NG conversion in my 84 4KQ

Ben, you are mistaken, the combustion chambers are identical (29cc), the 
compression bump comes from the pistons ONLY.

Audi engineers had a lot of reasons for going to the CIS-3 setup, but 
increased hp really had nothing to do with it.  The HP increase came with
NG bottom end, the CIS-3 is a more advanced version of CIS offering knock 
sensing, maps for the timing curves, diagnostic output tests, higher
fuel meter with higher system pressure, transistorized ignition coil, etc.  
These are mostly saftey measures to make the newer cars more "idiot proof" 
because of the high compression and possibilities for knocking and

Peymon's car is worth a few grand at the most, he will now run 92 octane,
for less than $1k he now has a basically brand new engine compartment.  This

all after spending maybe 20hrs prepping and building the motor, and one 
weekend to swap it in, the result -I would estimate 140hp and a 0-60 of
7.5 sec, not bad.

HTH Ben, good luck with your projects.


In a message dated 7/18/2001 6:15:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
BSWANN at arinc.com writes:

<< Javad,
 I understood that the higher compression comes from the Head on the NG
 setup, not the Block.  The high compression is largely what buys the
 additional Torque and HP across the RPM spectrum.  Someone correct me if
 wrong.  I seriously doubt that the VW/AUDI engineers went through all the
 trouble to modify the 4 and 5 cyl. setups with these changes for such a
 limited return.
 Data Point:  this is similar to two 4 cyl swaps I did on Type 1 Scirocco:
 1) used 1.8l '85 Scirocco/GTI setup with lower compression and CIS with oxy
 and no knock sensor.
 2) used 1.8l '88 Jetta GLI engine with Motronic setup(I broke out portions
 of the systems to support CIS with oxy) and included the knock
 sensor/ignition portion from the '88 Jetta setup.
 The '85 1.8 8:1 was good.  The '88 1.8 10:1 and knock sensor blew the '85
 setup away.  A 268 cam and Gillette exhaust and header was later installed
 to sweeten it up even more.  
 I had considered putting in a turbo engine and did not for a few reasons:
 1) The NG motor was available for low cost, and I could have just plopped
 the thing in.
 2) The Turbo setup requires more retrofitting than just a wiring harness
 swap, including fitting of the Intercooler, and turbo oiling and cooling
 lines, etc.  It was just beyond the scope of what I wanted to do for a
 street car and my very limited time and budget.
 Maybe someday, if my wife doesn't kill me, I'll take on a turbo swap, but
 will probably be in a newer car.
 Anyway, this is just to clarify and verify my sanity that what I am doing
 in order, and that certainly the 2.3 swap you guys did was also.
 Happy Quattroing!

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