Low cost options while doing PM on 5ktq (was 10V T pics)

JShadzi at aol.com JShadzi at aol.com
Mon Sep 24 22:33:11 EDT 2001

<<  I'd like to know what can be done water injection wise, or  extra fueling.
  Now would be the time if I needed to modify the intake manifold, etc.>>

Ben, check out my supplementary fueler I use at www.034efi.com, or, there are 
other similar units out on the market, all capable of presicely controlling 
extra fuel via extra injectors.
> [Old racing saying " Speed cost$- How fast can you AFFORD to go!?"]  Not
 >fast enough that I want to pay what I could for a new car.

I disagree, for less that $15k I have built a car that is faster,handles and 
brakes better than an S4tt, just don't have the amneties and new car feel, 
more like a race car feel, what I prefer anyway  =) 
 >That is why it seems water injection should be within reach of budget and
> time.
> This still seems to be the way to go for me - has anyone done this.  BTDT
 >suggestions, etc.

I think at the hp levels you are talking, this is unecessary if your fueling 
is right, if you are talking past 400hp, then maybe...
 <<More suggestions and my reponses:
  #1- better IC will last until the limit of the K-26 $250-400 ( get good with
 a mig- parts are $250) I have not been able to locate a single pass IC for 
what I consider to be reasonable cost.  That said, does anyone have one?  Yes 
I have a MIG welder.>>

Its true, get a Spearco or double pass core and built the endtanks, that is 
what I did with a Spearco Core, cost me about $350.  BTW, good luch Migging 
an IC, very hard to get it sealed up airtight, but if you are REALLY good, I 
suppose it could work.
 << #4- mild port match and polish head/CC/intake $250
 I wasn't planning to yank the head this go around, but will certainly clean
 up accesible casting flash, etc.  I was considering new lifters - definatley
 if a cam goes in.  My last P&P job took a long time, so I didn't want to go

Ya, I wouldn't get crazy here, not worth what you can make up for in boost 
considering your goals for this project.
 >#5-extrude hone the intake & ex.  $600+ ( maybe even the turbine and
 >compressor housings)

Try more like $1200!  Not worth it...
  > This is why I feel water injection is a good option - you dont need to add
 >gas, just a little water sprayed at proper time and points, and get a pretty
 >good gain, at least that is what I understand.

Water injection does not replace fuel, it helps cool the comb. chamber, no 
replacement for the proper fuel ratios and timing IMO.
 >[I think to the 300hp range, water injection is unecessary, of course,
 >adding  an extra injector or two can help take the edge off of running 
lean, but 
 >shouldn't be used to make up large amount of fuel, unless an injector for 
> each runner is used (IMO).]
  >BTDT??? I would like to do this.  How, without spending too much time $$.
> How much would it cost to do it right?

Yes, I had 5 aux. injectors on my car when I was running CIS, you could do it 
all for under $500, and do it right most importantly.  Contact me for 

 << Yes, proportional, but hardly linear, flow decreases at boost/pressure 
  (just like a fuel pump), and the misconception exists in that fact.  In my 
 own car running a K26 (currently), the car is actually faster at 14psi then 
 at 18psi- where the inefficient K26 begins heating the intake charge beyond 
 the ability of the intercooler.
 > I think I understand what you are saying here - make the engine flow better
 >and it will accomodate the boost better?

Make the TURBO flow better, small turbos build pressure fast with high 
velocity, bigger turbos build boost slower, but can move a lot more air once 
the engine starts moving air, its a compromise either way, but you can't make 
high hp on a little turbo...
<< I have extra manifold and I don't mind making the holes bigger. I sure 
 want to shell out for some fancy header.>>

Well, then resign yourself to about 275hp if everything is *maxxed*, that is 
one of your limitations...
 <<Did you look into MB 6.9 CIS injectors and metering head?>>
 >What about this - I don't see how it would really make any difference.
 >Aren't fuel pressures going to be the same at injection delivery point?

I think the idea is that the bigger injectors will flow more fuel at the same 
pressures, and a bigger airflow meter will flow more air, but I don't know of 
anyone sucessfully doing this yet, good luck.
 <<Oh, no one mentioned anything about a rising rate fuel pressure regulator.

Won't work on a CIS, it may affect system pressure, but won't have a similar 
effect on control pressure.
 > I was going to have a spare K26 rebuilt for around $350.  Is there a better
> unit available for not much more?  I mean $600, maybe $800 is reasonable, if
 >it will definately be an improvement also taking into account longevity.
 >Also, it sounded like the Garrett requires some retroffiting in addition to
 >shelling out the dough.

If you are interested in a T3/T04E that will bolt up to the stock exh. 
manifold and down pipe for $700 contact me privately...
> I just have a difficult time swallowing the replacement of a perfectly good
 >exhaust - is this thing really the bottle neck.  Also, the work I'll be
 >doing won't be near the exhaust.  Someone did suggest replacing the cat
 >though - I wasn't going to go there either, but if it is restricting at the
 >peril of other components, maybe I need to address now.

This is a must, it is a huge improvement, even at stock levels, if you want 
to do one thing beyond chipping and WG spring, it should be a 3" exh, hands 
down IMO.
 <<Averall, my justification for keeping the costs down so much is that I 
 be spending this money on a newer 200 or A6 or ??  Love this wagon though,
 so I plan to keep.>>

Ya, newer and MUCH slower, depends what you are looking for.  Even if you 
spent $10K on making your car faster, there is nothing you could buy anywhere 
close to that new that will be as quick and fun to drive, not in the Audi 
range, now the 944 turbo is another story..

<< Thanks everyone  for the help and advice.  I am trying to line everything 
 to take the car OOS in the next month or so.  Sorry about the apparently
 long rant, but I want to get accross the point of my objectives.  >>

My pleasure  =)


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