[s-cars] Oh Mama!!!- 034 EFI??

Trevor Frank tfrank at symyx.com
Mon May 9 21:33:05 EDT 2005

Hey we are both waiting for the answer, I have honestly heard of this.
I have built a few headers myself, and if it was made of mild steel and
it broke then I would use stainless, I did this on a rotary motor, a
racing beat, thick steel header and made new out of 316, it would
literally melt during every race and I would weld it back together and
patch it up.  After a few $100 trips to me I finally convinced him to
let me to it right.  At 2300deg F even the 316 didn't have much of a
chance, but I made it a bit thin so that it would radiate some of the
heat and not store it all and well it worked.  If I had to do it again
today, I would use inconel.  The liquidus temperature of mild steel
makes it such that at turbo temps it will typically just blow out, you
can use really thick material and coat the inside and it might have a
chance of surviving, or run your motor rich and keep the egt's down.  I
was involved with a guy who contracted a local company to make 500
headers for a 1.8t application, a tube header that could go into the
stock location, our buddies at TAP, where the only other guy's making
something like this at the time.  Anyway again the guy cheaped out,
coated steel and he had an issue with it blowing out around the merger,
he was out 5k.  Even though he had a few good engineers and fab shops
telling him different some of his buddies said it would work.  He
couldn't even get the good fab shops to make it out of steel cuz they
said it wouldn't work.  Now he is out 5k and has about 100 junk headers.
IMO steel is wrong, coated steel inside and out is honestly no better,
you might be able to save it if you just coat the inside, but coating
the outside is just keeping more heat in and raising the temp of the
metal and making it more prone to failure.  I don't see the logic in
mild steel, and honestly have heard one or two people say to use it, so
I am wondering where people are getting this info?  If 304 stainless
doesn't work then I would look at if there are hot spots being generated
by the design or if there are stresses being put onto the header by the
down pipe or the turbo, and if that wouldn't work, 321 stainless
"actually this is where I like to start" is that doesn't work...well I
know some who have gone to inconel.  Either way I don't going from
stainless steel to mild steel if stainless didn't workout.  Earlier this
month I talked to a few fabricators about this as well and they where
scratching there heads too.  No fault of haps I don't think and I am not
trying to kill his sales or anything.  Its just that I don't like people
to say things, and have other people think that its correct and spread
unsubstantiated info about stuff.  All headers have design issues, and
longevity issues regardless of the material, it's not that simple to
build something that will last, I know I have had to repair and build
new for a lot of people, and had to repair and build new of my own work
when it's broken.  This just happened to me recently with a 321 exhaust
that I built for a 1.8t road racing car, improper bracing of the exhaust
and 3g turn ripped the wastegate flange right off. It was not a
temperature related failure of the material per say, but more of a
bracing and design issue with the header and exhaust system.  I built it
to replace a coated weld ell metal header that was having failure of the
material issues and design issues.  So we all fail but starting with a
poor material choice is not giving it much of a chance.  With that said
I hope that the headers work for these guys.  

Don't take my word for it, contact, www.burnstainless.com  take a look
at http://www.spdexhaust.com  give the guy's at www.wolfaircraft.com a

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob DG [mailto:bobs6 at msn.com] 
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 5:57 PM
To: Trevor Frank; CaptMagu at aol.com; s-car-list at audifans.com
Subject: RE: [s-cars] Oh Mama!!!- 034 EFI??

So what about the stainless being brittle? Does it fit better than the 
Swedish unit?

>From: "Trevor Frank" <tfrank at symyx.com>
>To: "Bob DG" <bobs6 at msn.com>, <CaptMagu at aol.com>,
<s-car-list at audifans.com>
>Subject: RE: [s-cars] Oh Mama!!!- 034 EFI??
>Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 16:51:53 -0700
>As well as the down pipe.  All the same stuff, basically off of the
>700hp 034 efi 2.3l aan.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com
>[mailto:s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com] On Behalf Of Bob DG
>Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 4:44 PM
>To: CaptMagu at aol.com; s-car-list at audifans.com
>Subject: [s-cars] Oh Mama!!!- 034 EFI??
>Related to Hap's post, does anyone have any experience with the 034 EFI
>tubular header>
> >From: CaptMagu at aol.com
> >To: s-car-list at audifans.com
> >Subject: [s-cars] Oh Mama!!!
> >Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 23:15:42 EDT
> >
> >S-heads
> >
> >The Happersized Special roared back to life after 3 days under the
> >capable ife of Evahboot's resident doctor, Dave Dawson. I am tired so
> >here's a link
> >to an AW post with install pics. One word Wow!
> >
> >http://forums.audiworld.com/s4s6/msgs/64914.phtml
> >
> >Hap, wit dakine few words from Evahboost, Maguire
> >_______________________________________________
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