[s-cars] "stealers" (longish)

Pasqualoni, James E james.pasqualoni at gs.com
Mon Aug 7 11:17:20 EDT 2006

Dave et al,

I think it's great that people like Dave keep these cars out of the
hands of the 'unknowing' and try to cater to enthusiasts, as most of us
here are.  That right there differentiates your operation from most
Audi-franchised dealers.  The more you know (or enthusiastic you are),
the less the Audi dealer wants to hear from you.  I've had so many
issues with our local Audi dealer that I stopped buying Audis and sold 3
of my 4 cars within the past 6 months.  For example, years ago, my wife
had a 95 A6qA.  The volume/power button on the radio had stopped working
altogether.  While the car was in for service, she asked about it, and
the dealer happily quoted $350 for a remanufactured radio, which they
happened to have in stock.  RED FLAG!  I did some digging and discovered
there was a silent recall on the radios.  $150 and a conversation with
(then reprimand from!) the dealership service manager, we had a reman
radio.  They acknowledged the silent recall readily but had no apology
whatsoever.  A few months later, I go to same dealership, ready to buy a
new A4.  The Audi salesman quickly pawned my wife and me onto a Chevy
salesman!  I guess he thought we were too young to spend money?  The
Audi sales guy went back to his cube to read the sports page and finish
his coffee.  When we confirmed out interest and the potential of
purchasing that day, wouldn't you know that the Audi salesman was back
at our side?  Finally, when I asked for a rough guesstimate on trade-in
value of my 91 100, the salesman said he would get back to me with a
quote by the close of business.  The estimate never came, and I bought a
car at a dealer that was 5 times further away the next afternoon.
Latest was my father bringing his A6 2.7tt in for front cv joints.
$1,700 later, he had his car back.  BUT, the dealer made a mistake and
gave him the 'Accounting' copy of the receipt, which is Audi's internal
copy showing cost basis and amount charged.  Every fee (environment,
disposal, etc) and part was marked up 99% from cost.  And, the dealer
decided that he needed two new half-shafts instead of just the outer
joints that had gone bad.  Whoops...

Long and the short-Dave, I envy your business model, as I've met more
great people on this forum and in other Audi forums over the years, and
I would imagine that dealing with people who understand the value of
these cars is such a refreshing change.  Seems as if you are basically
trying to match people and cars, rather than the typical, SELL, SELL,
SELL mentality.

I doubt anyone intended to group guys like you and Bruce Mendel with the
typical $tealer categorization.

Just my $.02


-----Original Message-----
From: s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com
[mailto:s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com] On Behalf Of dave flagg
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 10:55 AM
To: cello at adelphia.net; Eric Phillips
Cc: s-car-list at audifans.com
Subject: Re: [s-cars] "stealers"

<<I've purchased two Audis from Dave Flagg and his son Pete. I've always
felt I paid a fair price on a vehicle that has always been presented
honestly.>> Thanks Cello, Happily we do enjoy a customer base of people
like yourself. If we were in it soley for the money, you'd see all kinds
of cars here for sale; customers BUY all kinds of cars. We have simply
found a niche that we enjoy; the cars, the people and the evnets we go

The problem with posting the auction reports is there is so much more to
the story.

Robert Rossato wrote: <<He did mention that the roof of the car was
resprayed but the rest of the car had the original paint>> I find it
interesting that this was acceptable; was it repainted due a scratch
from a bike rack or did a tree fall on it and crush the roof requiring a
new roof?.With a repainted/repaired roof, I would most likely would have
left that car behind

<<Keep in mind the auction house also gets a 6% fee. >>

Ah.......no, not even close Your broker made around 10 % if he told you
that.  If your guy is a legitmate dealer, he need's that to cover
expenses. My objection is that a fellow who operates of his dining room
table has no where near the overhead while doing business under the
radar of the state dealer regulations.

calvinlc wrote:

<<Everyone understands that people must make a profit to stay in
Everyone also understands that $10k of profit on a car priced at $25k is
highway robbery. >>

I think the listers pretty savvy. If a dealer bought a car so cheap that
he could make that kind of profit, there's usualy more to the story; ie
crashed or trashed some reason that caused the previous owner to dump

----- Original Message -----
From: <cello at adelphia.net>
To: "Eric Phillips" <gcmschemist at gmail.com>
Cc: <s-car-list at audifans.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: [s-cars] "stealers"

> We all have our bad dealer stories. There are many that rely upon
> ignorance. Many of us work on our own cars, and most buy them used,
and if 
> you are like me - only after extensive research. I think we as a group
> especially sensitive to some of the tricks dealers play and what they 
> charge. Unfortunately, there are many folks I know that don't care,
> want to walk away when making a purchase - and always think the dealer

> knows best when it comes to their car's service. You can't convince
> people otherwise. That's why they'll continue to be around and make
> As always it's buyer beware.
> I've purchased one new car in my life (Subaru). It was a nightmare to
> The dealer that serviced it under warranty utterly convinced me never
> be their customer again. Subaru stood by the issues with the car and 
> covered them, but the service experience was miserable. Of course they

> were the only Subaru dealer in town.
> I've purchased two Audis from Dave Flagg and his son Pete. I've always

> felt I paid a fair price on a vehicle that has always been presented 
> honestly. They do the leg work that I would usually do when buying a 
> private vehicle and should be compensated for it - the fact that they
> enthusiasts is a bonus! There are others like him (new and used) that
> known - it's just a question of doing the leg work and finding these 
> folks. They do exist!
> Paul
> ---- Eric Phillips  wrote:
>> Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 15:46:55 -0400
>> > From: "dave flagg"
>> > Subject: Re: [s-cars] RS6 going to auction
>> >
>> > The only ax I have to grind is the all too often used reference to
>> > local
>> > '"stealer". That is a term term that obviously is used by someone
>> > boss
>> > charges his customers no more than the employees salary for the 
>> > employee's
>> > work; NOT likely.
>> Dave,
>> Do you really think that the dealer gets called "stealer" by
accident? Or
>> that it's an isolated thing with Audi dealers? Do you think people
>> pervasively use this term for no reason?
>> There is a very good reason I will NEVER go to a dealer to buy a car
>> get
>> service. My experiences have been uniformly bad, with only a couple
>> bright spots - like parts department managers willing to go the extra

>> mile
>> for me. But the shit I've had to endure from dealerships has
>> that I won't go there unless there is no other avenue. And mainly,
>> for dealer-only parts.
>> I'm sorry if this reality is hurtful. It's not meant to be. But I
>> you
>> this - the shittiest treatment I've ever endured, without a doubt,
>> when
>> we were looking to replace my wife's A2 GLI with an Audi sedan of
>> stripe. I had to threaten the sales manager with a call to the police
>> get the keys back to that thing. And here's the strange thing - I was
>> pissed off, that I went to Usenet to tell my tale, and found out that

>> this
>> is a normal tactic! The "lost key ruse" is what it got called.
>> For every one story of decent dealer relations, you've got 50 bad
>> Or
>> more.
>> You can complain all you like, but dealers have *earned* their 
>> reputation.
>> The customer may not always be right, but they sure as hell aren't
>> wrong.
>> Eric
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