[s-cars] Thought-provoking stuff.......NAC, but all Car stuff.

djdawson2 at aol.com djdawson2 at aol.com
Mon Jun 11 21:21:34 EDT 2007

VERY well put, Fred...

Until we feel pain, REAL pain... we will continue to live "as is."  IMO the cliche "necessity is the mother of invention" applies here.  Until the economic pain, or environmental pain becomes intolerable, we will continue to do what we've always done... consume and spend like there is no tomorrow.  When the pain threshold is reached, THEN we will do something.

Here and now, there simply isn't a "necessity."


-----Original Message-----
From: Fred Munro <munrof at sympatico.ca>
To: Jim Fleischer <jim at activelifestylemassage.com>; s-car-list at audifans.com
Sent: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 6:34 pm
Subject: Re: [s-cars] Thought-provoking stuff.......NAC, but all Car stuff.

Big subject, Jim.
I see two big problems here, oil and transportation. As Mark pointed out,
orth America is built on oil and the automobile. Both are tightly linked to
ur economies and lifestyle. Expensive gas and oil? It's not expensive. We
ave a free market system. Oil and gas will be expensive when most of the
eople can no longer afford to buy it, and cut back their consumption to the
oint that the oil companies drop the price to get the volumes back up. I
hink we are a long way from that point yet. Still lots of gas guzzlers sold
nd on the road. Big profits for the oil companies? Yup. The value to the
onsumer is much higher than the cost of production. That's how capitalism
orks; you make the investment, you reap the profits.
Why is the value of gas so high to the consumer? We have built our North
merican infrastructure on the premise of cheap and inexhaustible oil and
ersonal, not mass, transportation. Suburbs spread all over with people
iving many kilometres from work and the nearest store, dentist, school,
tc. The local Mom and Pop stores? Gone. Big Box stores, massive parking
ots, get your low-priced Chinese-made goods here. No rapid, high density
ass transit systems. You need the gas and car just to get to work and to
et food and the knick-knacks so dear to our hearts. How much is that gas
orth to John Q. Public, when without it he's stuck in Happy Valley 5 km
rom the nearest store?
Electric cars? Yup, disengages the citizen from the oil companies.
ransportation is still a problem and still individual. Pollution exists at
he generation plants and in battery manufacture and disposal, not at road
evel. The U.S. is pretty well maxed out on electrical generation and going
lectric on cars would overload the system. The Tesla is a nice electric car
oncept - ultra high performance, laptop battery banks, but the ~$100,000
rice is out of reach for most.
Our real problem is our North American lifestyle, which is not sustainable
ver the long term. Will new technologies save us? Perhaps, but the history
n "new technologies" shows they have created more problems than they
olved. I see three groups of people out there. A very, very, very small
umber recognize the problem and have changed their lifestyle to accommodate
he issues. They move downtown, sell the car, walk, bike, and bus to work
nd the services they need. Very European. A somewhat larger and growing
roup, and I include myself in this one, recognizes the problem and
ontinues living the non-sustainable lifestyle anyway. It's a great
ifestyle and I love my Quattro's. The largest group doesn't even recognize
he problem.
Want to read a good book? Try "Collapse" by Prof. Jared Diamond. He examines
ast civilizations that collapsed and those that survived, identifies common
inks, and projects them onto our civilization. Very thought-provoking and
ot total doom-and-gloom, but not very cheery either.
Anyhow, enough ranting. As Mark said, don't get me started :)
Fred Munro
97 S6 (fill 'er up!)

----Original Message-----
rom: s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com
mailto:s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com]On Behalf Of Jim Fleischer
ent: June 11, 2007 3:58 PM
o: s-car-list at audifans.com; urq at audifans.com; 200q20v at audifans.com
ubject: [s-cars] Thought-provoking stuff.......NAC, but all Car stuff.

ey quattro fans,
Please forgive the NAC, and also posting to the three lists I subscribe to,
ut I saw something last night that is starting to disturb me.  Let me start
y saying that I am a quattroholic, currently owning a '95 S6 Avant, a '91
00 TQ 20V and an '83 ur.  I've had a total of 8 Audis (7 quattros) in my
riving career and have loved every one of them.  That said, I just watched
Who Killed the Electric Car" last night and I found it quite compelling.  I
lso found it quite disturbing.  If you haven't watched it yet, I suggest,
ven for entertainment sake, that you go and rent it.  Now, I'm not one of
hose "conspiracy" types, but I find it quite troubling to know that we, the
ar buying public, are not given the option of purchasing a different
ropulsion technology for our transportation that would seem on the surface
o be very economical, reliable, "emissions free" (I put that in quotes on
urpose....of course I know it takes either nuclear, natural gas or coal to
ake the el
ectricity to charge the damn things,) etc.  The fact that the major
utomobile manufacturers have gone to great lengths to destroy every last EV
hey had made makes for some interesting "conspiracy" thoughts in my mind.
hat are they trying to hide?
My intent here is merely to provoke some mindful thought about what we, as
onsumers, are facing in the real world when faced with high gas and oil
rices (while oil companies are enjoying record profits), environmental
ollution from oil and gas spills, and not to mention Global Warming due to
nternal combustion engine exhaust, (I'm not even going to go into the
eo-political conflicts costing American lives in the oil-rich Middle East.)
nd to also inform people that there are (were) other viable options
vailable as recently as 5-10 years ago that could possibly have kept us
rom the possible environmental predicament we are currently facing.  Am I
illing to give up my trio of quattros at the moment?  No, but I am thinking
f the possibilites of transforming a 4000 quattro to electric power
ometime in the future........the technology is there to do it.
I invite all thought provoking criticism, constructive and otherwise.......
Best regards to all,
Jim Fleischer
95 S6 Avant
91 200TQ
83 ur
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