[torsen] Re: [s-cars] Re:Some more thoughts on traction

Jani.Peltopuro at poyry.fi Jani.Peltopuro at poyry.fi
Tue Dec 5 10:26:03 EST 2000

One contributing factor that the torsen cars did not do well in 
competition was the weight distribution, a good point Scott. Other group B 
cars went past with a middle engine layout. There were other design flaws 
as well in the SQ, no front spoiler (until S1, and what a spoiler it 
was!), too big overhangs etc. The Audi engine was the best in group B, on 
that there is concensus I think. So I don't think it is fair to say the T- 
diff was the decisive factor. 

A good post SJ anyways. I'm off celebrating Finnish indepence, we've kept 
the Russians on the right side of the border for 83 years now, as Igor 


qshipq at aol.com
12/05/00 05:09 PM

        To:     torsen at audifans.com
        cc:     Dave.Eaton at clear.net.nz, s-car-list at egroups.com
        Subject:        [s-cars] Re:Some more thoughts on traction

What I find interesting in this seemingly endless "debate" is that my 
conclusions of the center diff, consistently complement the expressed 
presentations of both Chocholek and Bensinger.   My thoughts on traction 
put forth the obvious, not a revelation, just the practical chassis 
conclusion of a design presentation. Even Dave's 'insight' into his 
with Chocholek I find right on..  WRT Chocholek and Dave's conclusion that 

the problem with "it has more to do with weight distribution and U/O 
is consistent. 

 The problem is Dave, I consider quattro weight distribution to be a 
at static (and most dynamic) U - supported by Bensinger in Chris Millers 
website references.  *IF* we could move the weight so we have a static O 
I hope BMW isn't reading this) chassis, then we maybe could apply a torsen 

center diff, and have O on throttle, with a understeer at the limit 
character.  We don't have that, nor can we realistically get it.  The 
triangulated swaybar in the 44 chassis cars doesn't help either.

Since you claim to have a formal discourse with both Bensinger and 
maybe they can give you some insight into the Motorola/Speedvision '00S4 
championship cars in terms of welded diffs being faster than their 
device designed to go in it.  Thinking of the freedoms in terms of weight 
distribution and HP levels in those cars, and they couldn't get faster 
with the torsen, what does that mean for the street car guys realistically 

looking at the same thing.

One can also easily look at any "torsens in racing" anecdotes, and say 
that quattro dominates, and in the 80/90 chassis cars, it (torsen) was 
enough' for winning races.  I dare say that as we enter the mellinium, it 
isn't good enough anymore.  Conclusions:  Active diffs have come to WRX 
M/S cars won the championship welding torsen diffs solid (lockers), and 
torsens aren't found anymore.  Seems we have a step forward, a tried and 
true, and a passe respectively.   Given the M/S report, I don't feel 
optimistic of a torsen winning championship coming quattros way again.  Do 


Thanks for taking the time to put forth your opinions.  Given Lawson's 
report, even you have to be questioning your own viewpoint.  Objectively, 
stopwatches just don't lie:   track, rally, street, or steamboat. 

Scott Justusson

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