[urq] [Es2] Wiring Harness
seiche at shadetreesoftware.com
Thu Apr 27 12:30:44 EDT 2006
Not meant to be a pissing match. My point is that with a Cx chassis
harness, the labelling and preparation for a Bx chassis car is a 40+
hour procedure to create a "plug and play" harness. If done correctly,
then yes, you should then be able to connect it up in short order. IME,
the 3B harness in Brandon R.'s '84 ur q was a case in point, where it
took about an hour to route and connect up the prepared '91 200q
harness. BTW, we did need to swap fuseboxes to a later one from the
'91 200q because there were some additional circuits added to the later
black brick fuseboxes.
If you feel it is reasonable to wire up a '91 200q harness in an ur q in
an afternoon, start to finish, and have it all clean as it would have
come from the factory, then yes, we disagree.
Martin Pajak wrote:
>I'm not going to get into a pissing contest here because I think we are
>still on the same side here...
>I did mention that all the auxiliary stuff like temp gauge, tach signal,
>A/C stuff (if you choose to have one) need to be connected, however my
>point was that anything required to run the actual engine simply plugs
>straight into the fusebox. At least on the 3B (200q 20v and S2) ADU (S2)
>and 7A. That is simply because they all use the same fusebox.
>Maybe I am gifted (don't think so) but in my case the wiring took very
>little once all the preparation and labeling was done.
>If you still disagree with my comment let's agree to disagree.
>>Yes, the black "B" connector from the S2 harness plugs right in and the
>>signals are correct. That will almost getting you running and is much
>>better than the AAN S4/S6 harness and '91 200q harnesses for a many
>>reasons, but if you want to use the rest of the wires, like oil
>>pressure, oil temp, coolant temperature, fan turn-on with the after run
>>pump, A/C compressor control, etc., there is alot more to connect.
>>When you start talking about putting in an AAN harness, you also have to
>>connect the speed signal, which is a little tricky on an ur q with an
>>analog dash (but can be done) as well as the relays and power
>>connections being in the wrong place. Then under the hood there is the
>>issue with the throttle body connector and idle stabilizer connectors
>>being in the wrong place if you end up using a different intake . Yes,
>>all of the signals are there and you can match signal up to the car
>>side, but you need to know what is and what is not needed. That is
>>where most people have trouble. On top of that, there are things like
>>A/C compressor signals, and fan controls that most people ignore, but I
>>consider necessary. To me, getting it running is one thing, getting it
>>working "right" is another.
>>When I do a wiring conversion, I unwrap the interior side, remove
>>everything that is no longer used, and connect up everything with
>>factory connectors and no splices unless it is absolutely necessary.
>>With a 3B '91 200q harness, you need to remove about 30 200q specific
>>wires, and then adding back wires for the wipers, windshield washer
>>pump, etc. and then add the proper connectors and jumpers to mate up to
>>the car. AAN S4/S6 harnesses are much worse. FWIW, I have done "plug
>>and play" 3B harnesses for three early ur qs, an '84s, '85 and AAN
>>harnesses for an '84 and an '87 4kq. I also modified an RS2 harness for
>>an '87 4kq. Even after doing it a few times and all my notes it still
>>takes me ~ 40 hours of honest labor to make a 3B harness truly "plug and
>>play" for an ur q, 10+ more for an AAN S4/S6 harness. An RS2/S2 harness
>>makes things easier, but they aren't exactly easy to find in the US .
>>For that reason, I won't even do it anymore, as no one would want to pay
>>for what I would have to charge to make it worth my time and each time I
>>say "never again". Making $10 bucks an hour isn't worth it. I have
>>also redone an '83 with a 3B harness from a '91 200 that the first
>>mechanic billed 100 hours of labor on the electrical system. It worked,
>>but it was a mess. It took me 10 hours just to clean it up.
>>No offense Martin, but there is more to the harnesses than just the ECU
>>Martin Pajak wrote:
>>>All of the engine related plug on the S2 harness plug straight into the
>>>Coupe/4kq fusebox. Afterall it is the same fusebox as on S2/RS2.
>>>Only the stuff for the trip computer, tach, temp gauge and cruise control
>>>speed signal need to be connected into the wiring harness... even then
>>>of the car side plugs can be used and made to look factory.
>>>Here are the notes on the engine wires that need to be plugged into the
>>>3B ECU Pin Out Signal Description
>>>1. Output stage for Ignition coil N70 (Green/White)
>>>2. Coding Plug (Yellow/Black)
>>>3. Fuel Pump Relay J17, G6 (Brown/Green) Fuse Box "BS" (Green/purple)
>>>4. Idle Stabilizer N71 (Gray/Black)
>>>5. Carbon Canister Frequency valve N80 (Black)
>>>6. Tachometer (Purple) DigiDash "T35/31" (Purple) 7/25
>>>7. Mass Air Flow Sensor G70 (Black/Gay)
>>>8. Hall Sender, G40 (signal wire) (Green)
>>>9. Open, not used
>>>10. Ground (Brown/Yellow)
>>>11. Knock Sensor #1 G61 (Black)
>>>12. Hall sender, altitude sensor, etc. (+5V) supply (Red/Black)
>>>13. Diagnostic plug (L wire) (Black/White) Diagnostic "T2a"
>>>14. Control Unit ground (Brown/Red)
>>>15. Injector #3 control signal N32 (Brown/Green)
>>>16. Injector #2 control signal N31 (Brown/Blue)
>>>17. Injector #1 control signal N30 (Brown/Black)
>>>18. Terminal 30 (+12V) supply, Fuse #26 (Red/White) Fuse Box "L30"
>>>19. Control Unit ground (Brown/Yellow)
>>>20. Open, not used
>>>21. Open, not used
>>>22. Diagnos. out (Gray/Brown) Diagnostic"T2b"DigiDash"T35/33"FuseBox"ILa"
>>>23. Wastegate Frequency valve N75 (Green/Yellow)
>>>24. Control Unit ground (Brown/Red)
>>>25. Mass Air Flow Sensor (+ pin 4) G70 (Blue/Purple)
>>>26. Mass Air Flow Sensor (+ pin 2) G70 (White/Green)
>>>27. Terminal #15 (Ignition +12V) (Black) Fuse Box "B15")
>>>28. Oxygen Sensor G39 (green coax cable)
>>>29. Knock Sensor #2 G66 (White)
>>>30. Ground (Black/Purple)
>>>31. Boost Pressure Gauge (Purple/White) DigiDash"T35/16"(Brown/white)
>>>32. Trip Computer (Blue/Black) DigiDash "T35/34" (White/Green,
>>>33. Open, not used
>>>34. Injector #5control signal N83 (Brown/Red)
>>>35. Injector #4 control signal N33 (Brown/White)
>>>36. Multifunction temperature sensor F76 Pin R (Blue/Black)
>>>37. Voltage Supply input (+12V, Fuse #28, Blue/Black) Fuse Box "87a"
>>>38. Coding plug (Brown/Blue)
>>>39. Coding plug (White/Black)
>>>40. A/C Compressor (Green/Black)
>>>41. Idle speed increase signal (A/C on) (Brown/Black)
>>>42. Open, not used
>>>43. Open, not used
>>>44. Intake Air Temperature Sensor G42 (Blue)
>>>45. Coolant Temperature Sensor G62 (Red/Green)
>>>46. Altitude Sensor F96 (Gray)
>>>47. Engine Speed Sensor G28 (Gray)
>>>48. Ground for reference and speed sending units (shown as two wires, one
>>>Red, one Blue)
>>>49. Reference G4 (62 degree before TDC) sending unit (Purple)
>>>50. Open, not used
>>>51. Open, not used
>>>52. Idle Switch F60 (Green/Purple)
>>>53. Throttle Valve Potentiometer G69 (Gray/Blue)
>>>54. Coding plug (Red/Yellow)
>>>55. Diagnostic plug (K wire) (Yellow/Blue) Diagnostic"T2a"
>>>1982 Audi Ur-quattro (50,000 mi) new project
>>>1983 Audi Ur-quattro (85,000 mi) Concourse d'Elegance
>>>1985 Audi Ur-quattro (212,000 km) Euro spec. import mit 3B :)
>>>1987 Audi 4000s quattro (205,000 km) wintervagen mit 7A :)
>>>1990 Audi V8 quattro (365,000 km) pipe and slippers
>>>From: Jack Walker [mailto:JackW at ihco.com]
>>>Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 7:46 PM
>>>To: seiche at shadetreesoftware.com
>>>Cc: Martin Pajak; es2 at audifans.com; urq at audifans.com
>>>Subject: RE: [Es2] [urq] Wiring Harness
>>>Baby with the bath water, pretty good???
>>>Wasn't something I had control over, before it was sitting in a scrap
>>>yard, my original goal was the harness, the fuse box, the dash,
>>>everything. But when it went to the scrap yard, I didn't have a lot of
>>>options. They weren't even going to let me in the yard after it got
>>>loaded into the dump box, until they asked for the title. Told them to
>>>bring it back...or I would call the police and say it was stolen.
>>>The major reason I went for the fuse box surround was the lip in the
>>>under hood area that another fuse box could eventually go on top of
>>>along with the butyl tape. I've got a fuse box and harness from a FWD
>>>4000 and a bunch of dash parts...? There are a ton of 4000 CSQs around
>>>Don't things like the Ur all the dash display-speedo, tach, wiring have
>>>to be spliced into what ever harness I end up using, On the Lighting,
>>>A/C, Starter, rear wiper, and the battery can't I use the Ur wiring?
>>>503) 419-4601 Direct Phone Line
>>>503) 807-3807 Cellular Phone
>>>From: Steve Eiche [mailto:seiche at shadetreesoftware.com]
>>>Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 5:22 PM
>>>To: Jack Walker
>>>Cc: Martin Pajak; es2 at audifans.com; urq at audifans.com
>>>Subject: Re: [Es2] [urq] Wiring Harness
>>>Well, you kind of threw away the baby with the bath water. There is no
>>>need replace the area where the newer fusebox mounts. The area is
>>>already properly shaped for the newer fuse box. All you need to do is
>>>cut the hole for the housing and seal it with butyl tape (same stuff
>>>used by the factory). It will be indistinguishable from the later fuse
>>>box setup. You will want to remove the old fusebox bracket, and weld in
>>>the two brackets for the relay panel, but that is all you need. You
>>>should have saved the wiring and forgotten about the sheetmetal. You
>>>will want CGT wiring for the rear harness(es if you have a rear wiper),
>>>as well as the control stalks, but 4kq harnesses will work for the
>>>rest. Either way, you will have to make some changes, especially in the
>>>lighting circuits, A/C, starter and battery no matter what you do.
>>>As for the RS2 harness, yes, that will work much better than the S4/S6
>>>AAN harness. I'm not sure where Martin gets his 99% from, but I have an
>>>RS2 harness, and while the black connector with five wires that goes to
>>>the fuse box has them in the right places, and the fuses are easy to
>>>connect, but the other 19 are not plug-in compatible.
>>Shade Tree Software, LLC
>>seiche at shadetreesoftware.com
Shade Tree Software, LLC
seiche at shadetreesoftware.com
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