[V8] Timing Belt = Half Time Show

Tony and Lillie tonyandlillie1 at earthlink.net
Wed Mar 21 22:21:26 EDT 2007

I wrote that article. It was very quick, and from someone a little too 
experienced to remember all the little details that really come up. Kent was 
actually kind enough to put it in the KB for me. So, with that in mind, I'm 
glad fdor the added insight. I'll go back and add some details you pointed 
out, and have it updated.

As for the cam turning, that is somewhat normal. The cams want to line up 
where the least tension is on them, which is not always #1 TDC.

Don't know about the crank lock tool. Mine was homemade. I only used it to 
take off the crank bolt, then set it aside.

I didn't use the crank lock tools either. I almost had the set finished that 
I was building, but ended up in too much of a hurry to finish them.

My wiring on the front end is significantly different from the factory, so I 
couldn't use it as a reference point. I've relayed all the front lights and 
added 100W High beams.

Those two nuts on the front bumper - oops. I forgot they are on some cars 
still. Most have had them removed and thrown out. They are unnecessary. If 
you use the tow hook, it attaches directly to the car.

Glad you figured out the timing dots. I've taken some pics since then 
(didn't use them for that) and I'll add those as well.

The chrome trim comes off with two philliips screws on each fender. There is 
a pic in that writeup

Also, I didn't remove the trans lines, as shown in the pics.

As for the alternator, I didn't remove it from the cover. Just put ot to the 
side with the right TB cover.

The radiator support should go back in fairly easily. I'm sure it's not as 
easy as I remember, but I'm no He-Man, and I was able to do the job myself. 
Not to say that a helper wouldn't have, well, helped a great deal at times.

As for miller time, I've consumed plenty of Alcohol (Jack or everclear for 
me) to have enough patience for completing a project. Just don't have so 
much you forget things ;-) I'll have to say the second bolt would have been 
about the end of my patience. Thankfully, I had no such problems, and was 
able to get mine done in two short evenings as a result.

Hope this helps,
Tony Hoffman

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott Simmons" <indischrot at gmail.com>
To: "V8 Audi Fans" <v8 at audifans.com>; "Fred Banks" 
<gimmiegimmieemail at gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 8:05 PM
Subject: [V8] Timing Belt = Half Time Show

Day one complete with two disasters averted.

Started around 9am this morning.  Not only did I have the factory manual
pertinent pages printed out, but the KB walk-through from Audifans as
well as my own person step-by-step check list that was a synthesis of
the two.

                              With all this preparation, what could go

Getting the bumper off was slightly annoying.  I had to skip ahead a few
steps and remove the oil cooler to gain access to the two inside nuts.
Those will not be reinstalled.  Took a few hours to get the bumper and
radiator support off.  Some of the information in the KB is
misleading---the pictures are great but the text was confusing.  We
might have to update that with all the little screws and wires that need
attention---headlight wiper wiring, fog light wiring, headlight washer
hose, etc.  I really didn't know how to set the radiator support down as
I couldn't get the chrome trim off.  Right now I have thick supportive
cardboard sheet / oil cooler / cardboard / condenser / cardboard / tire
/ radiator support.

Also KB was sort of lacking in the removal of the right timing cover.
Made no mention of alternator cable removal nor provided any good photos
of how many bolts there were hiding behind the fan.  I'll try to get a
high quality picture after it's back on.

Has anyone ever broken the radiator trying to get the tranny cooler
lines out?  I felt like I was about to.  Upper came out with just one
"wince and pry" moment, but the lower took 3 or 4.  Zip-tie these else
you'll be in a pool of red.

Might be worth nothing that one should be prepared for an onslaught of
coolant after taking off water pump.  This was quite surprising and messy.

Used the largest impact gun I've ever seen to get the crank bolt loose.
This was sorta like that minigun used in Terminator 2.  I had to hold
back my Tim Allen grunts.

Right camshaft (cyl 1-4) rotated about 10-15° as soon as belt was loose
enough to let it.  I did not have the cam locking tools on and verified
TDC with the camshaft dots (then marked all sprockets).  It seems to be
in a "floating position" as I can turn it a few degrees further so I
don't believe any valves are shot.  Anyone else had this problem?  I'm
sort of regretting not using the cam locking tools, but I did not have
the time nor the inclination to get myself mixed up in the
distributors.  I'm on a time crunch as it is and I have no experience
with them.

Old parts looked relatively well.  Cam seals aren't leaking, so I'm not
going to change those.  Crankshaft seal looks good too.  Changed all the
rest.  A simple hammer and socket changed the oil pump bearing although
a press probably would have been more professional.  Used the 27mm
socket for the crank to drive the assembly back in.  Sprocket torqued,
marked, and turns freely.

The idlers have a little noise to them, but not too shabby for at least
60,000 miles on them.  P.O. said T-Belt was changed at 70k.  Car has 127
on it now.  Derlin bushing looked brand new, but I changed it
regardless.  Where, exactly, does one get $30 out of this thing........?

First problem:  The odd shaped bolt that holds the derlin bushing on
snapped during tightening.  Of course, the bolt that breaks is the most
obscure looking thing.  Mig welded a nut to the remnant, pulled it out.
Found a 6mm bolt of appropriate length and made myself a nice bushing
for it, and back in it goes.  It has a different head and looks about as
rigged as it is, but if it works, it works.  A single tiny drop of
loctite on each of those bolts since they're only hand tight (too scared
to break another).

Coated the water pump bolts with anti-seize although they came out
relatively well.  Old pump was in excellent condition: no leaks,
excellent bearing feel.

Upper thermostat-housing bolt feels.. odd.  It won't tighten.  It
doesn't appear to be stripped, so I got it as tight as it will go and
called it good.  If it leaks, it's the easiest bolt to get to.  I might
consider some blue loctite on that sucker too.

Now the fun begins.  Trying to assemble the cluster-f that is the belt
tensioning system, I could not get the stop-plate bolt (that short
allen) to thread into the water pump.  The first few threads must've
been fubar'ed.  Eventually got it to go but quickly deduced it was
cross-threading.  Further dicking caused the allen to break with 1/4
sticking out.

This is where I go outside and take a break.  It's 5pm, Miller time.

Reassessment of the situation reveals that it could be worse: it could
have been on the block.  Removed the water pump.  Mig welded 3 nuts on
there, each broke the weld before removing the bolt remnant.  Water pump
finds itself on the drill press.  LUCKILY, we had a M6 Heli-Coil kit
(those things are f'ing expensive).  Drilled, tapped, coiled with a drop
of loctite.  Blew out shavings from the water pump and remounted it to
the block.  Mounted tensioning assembly into its general position.
Backed away slowly to prevent further breakage.  I need to find a short
M6 bolt to hold the stop-plate then tension the belt.

Any hints on reassembly of the radiator support?  Removal had the
assistance of gravity.  My helper taped the hell out of the chrome, but
I'm debating whether or not to mask off the fender paint as well.

Old timing belt appears to have been rubbing along the back covers.
Noticed it was offset on the sprockets about 1/4" toward the rear.  I'll
investigate how it rides during reassembly.

Anyone need cam and crank seals?  Never used.

A/C clutch is getting me thinking.  With the engine running, there's a
"bad bearing sound" coming from the front.  That scrapping sound.  I
thought it was the serp pulley until I turned on the A/C.  Clutch
engages, sound disappears.  Closer inspection reveals interesting
clues.  There are lots of little "drops" of old belt.  Like a pulley
seized and the belt melted and threw bits everywhere.  Also, the clutch
seems to be scrapping against the pulley.  There seems to be some sort
of separation along half the circumference of the front.  I've attached
a picture of a generic compressor to help show what I mean.  I priced a
clutch through my FLAPS for about $230.  What are my options?

Tomorrow I'm installing the belt, tensioning, and reassembling the
thing.  I want to have it running by tomorrow night.

Still trying to figure out how I'm going to torque this thing.  I have
the factory extension too, but my 1/2" TW only goes up to 150ft lbs.

ALSO: The balancer holder would only engage with the engine at 15-20º
after TDC.  Is this normal?

Trying to make a broken bolt into a learning experience
           instead of a reason to drink,
Scott Simmons
Audifans V8 mailing list
Send posts to: mailto:V8 at audifans.com
Manage your list connection: http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/v8
Have an Audi V8 question?  Check the Audifans Knowledgebase!
Have a V8 answer? ... Please help others by adding to the KB ... all 
contributions welcome! 

More information about the V8 mailing list