[Vwdiesel] lowering gasoline prices

James Hansen jhsg at sk.sympatico.ca
Thu Apr 18 19:31:38 EDT 2002

On Thursday, April 18, 2002 2:55 PM, Josh Westhoven [SMTP:josh_w at sprynet.com]
> So, we have unanswered posts from Loren, Duncan, Dana, and Mark, noting
> flaws in James' contention that biofuels couldn't meet North American needs.

I was going to let this drop already, but hey, I hadn't noticed that I replied
to Duncan only, not the list. What part of Dana and Mark's posts noted flaws?
Here's the reply to Duncan... Pasted in just for Josh who doesn't like
unanswered posts.... ;-)

> Okay, call me an unrealistic idealist but if the US moved to using
> bio-diesel for it's fuel supplies wouldn't that mean by default that the
> gasoline engine in vehicles would be replaced by diesel engines.

Okay.  Duncan, you are an unrealistic idealist.  :-)

> given the greater fuel efficiency of diesel engines wouldn't that mean then
> that consumption of fuel would decrease. Or is my assumption of greater fuel
> efficiency incorrect.

Just because we already know this, doesn't mean that the PUBLIC in general will
follow logic.   Logic dictates that nobody really needs an SUV, yet the roads
are full of them.  Just because diesel owners are smarter and better looking,
don't assume everyone else is. (sorry, if you've been around the list for a
while, you know where this comes from...:-))

 Also doesn't a large amount of the petroleum
> distillates end up being something other than gasoline. So comparing the
> amount of bio-diesel that would be needed to the amount of petroleum
> currently needed is like comparing apples to soybeans.

Maybe, but what are the figures for just petroleum destined for fuel?

> It may be unrealistic to think that we can produce enough canola or whatever
> to meet the fuel needs of a large industrial country. I was just questioning
> the thought process that assumes that the fuel need would remain the same if
> everyone was driving diesel.

Everyone SHOULD be driving Lupos. The EPA prevents them from even being
imported.  What does that say about the protectors af the environment when they
won't allow all the tools to be used to reduce consumption?

 I base this question on the fact the currently
> of the four most fuel efficient vehicles sold in the US, two are hybrids and
> two are VW diesels. So my assumption is that any car based on diesel
> technology could achieve greater fuel efficiency than with a comparable
> gasoline engine.

True.  It will, but the public has a say in this.  As long as the manufacturers
sell performance, efficiency isn't even in the picture. You can race, or you
can be efficient, can't have both.
Wish it were otherwise.

(End of reply to Duncan)

> Harmon tosses a link to a list of farm subsidies that offers contrary
> evidence to another of his statements, as well as stats on biofuel use in
> Brazil, and neither point receives a response, but...

Again, I'm in Canada, I don't get them. Mark answered that eloquently.

I haven't been sitting at the computer all afternoon- I'm varnishing 1700 sq ft
of hardwood floor. Just finished. Yippeee!!

On the petroleum destined for fuel, what is the figure? I can't find this
anywhere, Loren made a good guess, but any numbers?  I would be interested in
this info. I would never argue a point just to be ignorant, if I'm wrong, I'm
wrong.  But support your point with data, don't just poke the dog with a stick.
Brazil is using ethanol, which may or may not be subsidized.  Here, it cannot
be self supporting unless it is established next door to a humungous feedlot so
the fermented grain that is a waste product of ethanol production can be used
and have value added to it. The feedlot scenario doesn't sit too well with many
folks either, but it's necessary to make the ethanol production viable. Sort of
subsidizing the ethanol with other compromises at the very least.  Our
provincial government is planning on investing heavily in ethanol plants in the
next little while.  Every one will be next to either a steer factory or a hog
factory, much like the one that currently exists nearby-( poundmaker ag
ventures it's called).  I suspect that tax money will flow like water...
getting down from the soapbox if you will....

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