[Vwdiesel] Injection timing --(Hillbilly tuning 1980 to 86 Bosch )

Shawn Wright swright at zuiko.sls.bc.ca
Thu Mar 25 11:10:23 EST 2004

On 25 Mar 2004 at 9:42, James Hansen <jhsg at sasktel.net> wrote:

> I gotta differ here a bit and rain on some parade.  It would be really nice
> to tell everyone that you don't need all the fancy schmancy tools to
> properly time your diesel and be correct.  The good news is, yes, with
> enough experience, you can time it by ear. Without enough experience
> however, on a long hill climb, you can also have the timing advanced enough
> to generate enough heat to kill it. Dead. Bright glowing cherry red turbo
> spewing chunks of molten piston and exhaust valves red.


Thanks for the warning. I've been wondering though - what about NA engines? 
Presumably there is a bit more room for error without the turbo producing all that 
extra heat (and power :-). We will likely take the Jetta to the interior at Easter, which 
means several long hill climbs, something we don't see much of on the Island here. 
I'm a bit concerned that my timing by ear might produce unexpected side effects...

But, I have a gut feeling that it is still too far retarded, even though I have advanced 
it twice since changing the belt. It just doesn't seem to start as well as it did before 
the belt change. If I could find a dial gauge for a decent price, I'd do it the proper 
way, but I'm still looking.

btw, I'm pretty sure the ticking noise I heard a while back is not valves tapping 
pistons (cam timing checked twice - ok), but instead a small exhaust leak which is 
very slowly getting worse. Possibly right at the manifold or downpipe - I just haven't 
had time to look yet. The noise is only noticeable under load at lower rpms - take 
foot off the pedal and it goes away. Does this sound like an exhaust leak?
> It is common practice to bump the timing up the thickness of a centerpunch
> mark if the pump is to spec on a tired old engine and it still doesn't run
> well/has no life. This is at the local Bosch shop, not just your local
> farmer's place, (like mine for instance.)  Now that's when you start from a
> know safe specification.  However, to advocate all start timing by feel and
> sound, remember, Hagar is basing this on many years of practical mechanical
> experience he has accumulated, not just what he has read on a forum as he is
> learning how to run his first $500 beater car.
> It works, but just be cautious, and remember free advice has no warranty. If
> you have little experience, buy the tools, learn to use them, and keep your
> motor running.  If you are willing to find out you timed it wrong by walking
> home, have at it.
> BTW, exhaust temp gauges are great things.  Go a long way to keepig things
> whole.
> -James
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: vwdiesel-bounces+jhsg=sasktel.net at vwfans.com
> > [mailto:vwdiesel-bounces+jhsg=sasktel.net at vwfans.com]On Behalf Of
> > H.Hagar
> > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 8:43 AM
> > To: vwdiesel at vwfans.com
> > Subject: [Vwdiesel] Injection timing --(Hillbilly tuning 1980 to 86
> > Bosch )
> >
> >
> > As time goes by , more and more of you will begin to tune by feel
> > and sound.
> > So here are some notes.
> >
> > We were asked :
> >
> > What are the signs of advancing timing too far? Shawn Wright
> >
> > The Hillbilly tuning procedure makes it clear that you should move the
> > pump a pencil line at the time. If you do it that way , you have
> > nothing to fear.
> >
> > When it gets too far the noise in idle ---( the marbles on the
> > plate get bigger)
> > gets louder.  From where you can detect it and to the point where
> > it will hurt
> > the engine ---is many pencils.
> >
> > Do not do a Hillbilly and then do the injectors.  The sequence is
> > important,
> > first the injectors then the Billy.
> >
> > Now for the rest of indications lets ask the mechanics here ---how's about
> > it Loren and Ferguson ?.
> >
> > Mine starts "too good"  and no smoke on a cold startup.  Does it
> > wind up as
> > overheating ? maybe.And very rough idle.?.
> >
> > Hagar.
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Shawn Wright
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