[Vwdiesel] Hagar's Digressions

Chuck Carnohan Chuck.Carnohan at itd.idaho.gov
Tue Nov 15 12:37:28 EST 2005

I regret that these discussions have resulted in such a "breakdown" of
our little group.  Damn, the knowledge of diesels and the helpful nature
of the group has, and can still be- inspiring.  We need each other in
more ways than one.  Bill Thompson speaks the truth.  We all must be
tolerant and forgiving of Hagar.  He means no harm and I'm sure he will
behave better from now on (yeah right)!  

I got into it with TexasTDI Chris over something stupid some years ago.
I felt badly and have tried to be good ever since.  Yes, I have stumbled
but all of us are quick to atone and apologize- even Svend!

Loren, come back please!  Let us all forget this ever happened- much
like a silly family argument that got out of hand.  Our bonds and
commonalities far outweigh differences in politics and current events.
I'm not going anywhere no matter what anybody sez off topic.  I need
your help at times! ;-)

Your everdubbingbrother,


-----Original Message-----
From: vwdiesel-bounces at vwfans.com [mailto:vwdiesel-bounces at vwfans.com]
On Behalf Of William A. Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 6:21 AM
To: vwdiesel at audifans.com
Subject: Re: [Vwdiesel] Hagar's Digressions

Be prepared for mixed messages in this (my) post.
Often there are conflicting things to consider as
we reflect on certain things.

I have to say that .... for the most part ... I
agree with Andrew. I am endeared to Hagar but ...
being one of the people he esteems to be stupid
Americans ... and beyond that a stupid Marine
Vietnam Veteran who had to "understand" that Hanoi
Jane was broadcasting on Hanoi radio while I was
in combat in 'Nam ... I have had to bite my tongue
.. withhold and forbear comment on some of what
has been posted.

There are rants I could have posted in response
.. and I did PM responses in the past. I have not
participated in discussions ... only lurked ...
because of wishing to forbear and worried I could
not if I participated at all even in trying to
post only on the VWDiesel content.

Not to say that I don't agree with Hagar as to his
fundamental precepts in part. Even in the most
insulting rants. Although I do strongly disagree
with some of his conclusions I withhold comment in
order to avoid insulting him while "ranting" back.
Part of what I do as I try to respect my elders.

For instance ... no matter how immoral I believe
it to be that certain countries do not stand up
and fight to the degree we Americans do when we
see injustice we can not tolerate further ... no
matter how immoral it is to benefit from the fact
that Americans fight and die to the benefit of
these certain other countries while they
inappropriately insult us for it ... no matter
that these certain other countries would not exist
as they do today but for my brothers in arms
dieing to their benefit ... no matter that we
remain silent as the citizens of these other
countries (and ours) denigrate us for what we do
which they benefit from ... no matter that the
mistakes we make in our actions of good intent are
most often less of a mistake than they would make
sitting on their hands while despot dictators over
run them and treat them inhumanely ... WE STILL

Please excuse my rant. It's purpose is to appeal
to all who are endeared to me to be cognizant that
I/WE fought so that you can act as you will ...
speak as you will ... but this is not the
venue/forum/platform to do some of it. Where the
context of your experiences are
interesting/germane with regard to the intended
content/subjects of this forum ... I love to hear
the stories. But ... as I tell any of my stories I
try to tell it so as to avoid insulting/putting
off others who might be of an entirely different
political/social mindset/situation than I. When I
read posts from this forum I am looking for a
better understanding of our beloved mode of
transportation ... and although I enjoy knowing
the why and where of peoples' experiences ... the
musings of others that post ... I almost quit even
lurking because of urges to shoot the messenger of
some comments. Pardon me ... I am a U.S. Marine
.. our first instinct when threatened/insulted is
to shoot ... and ask questions later.

I will especially regret it if this causes some of
the more VWDiesel knowledgeable people to leave. I
would ask that Hagar consider that some of how he
has said things is "over the top" and might drive
off some of the best contributors to this forum.

I would also ask that others consider Hagar's
situation and be tolerant ... even when he goes
off topic there is something to learn although I
won't go into or characterize that for reasons I
stated already. Although it is awkward ...
although we may have to forbear ... we too will
become codgers and geezers in our time  We will
need the youngins to work hard to tolerate our
"rants" in order to glean our pearls just as the
geezers have had to tolerate our youth in order to
offer them to us.

Additionally ... It doesn't take much at all to
use the delete key ... or to use message rules to
automate deletions based on the "from" line to
filter what ends up in your inbox. Hell ... you
can even filter so as to receive only from the
people you want to read.

Don't leave ... just filter messages ... the
"problem" won't exist forever.


----- Original Message -----
From: <Libbybapa at wmconnect.com>
To: <vwdiesel at audifans.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 9:41 AM
Subject: [Vwdiesel] Hagar's Digressions

> Well, this is a difficult, sad and awkward time
on this list.  I have in the
> past not felt the need to comment regarding
Hagar's posts.  Now I do feel the
> need.  I feel a fondness for Hagar, and have
enjoyed some tidbits.  I have
> also felt free to use the delete button if the
comments seemed repetitive or less
> than obviously relevent.  I think I probably
have political and social views
> more similar to Hagar's than many of the
individuals on this list.  Despite
> that, I find the commentaries on politics and
current events to be entirely
> inappropriate on this list.  *Entirely
inappropriate.*  This list has had a very
> friendly and compassionate form of communication
and comraderie.  I see
> absolutely no reason to comment regarding
ANYTHING that would even potentially upset
> or irritate anyone else on this list that is not
directly and obviously
> connected to VW DIESELS.  Obviously religion,
race, politics, current events or even
> whether you take a shower in the morning,
evening or once a week would fall
> in that category.  That seems obvious to me and
I am one of those Stupid
> Americans.  Further, there is nothing to be
gained by such off-topic rants for the
> individual or the group.  This is a group where
the listees join for their own
> enjoyment or information.  When it stops being
enjoyable, they leave.
> There are e-mail forums that are designed for
such discussions.  The thing
> that confuses me is why they are posted here.  I
have seen it commented again
> and again "TAKE IT TO THE WART LIST!".  That
would be aprropriate.  Here it is
> not.
> Politically I think I probably agree more with
Hagar than with Loren.  I
> don't know for sure because Loren has had the
decency to keep his political views
> primarily to himself.  Despite that, to have
Loren leave makes me feel ill.  I
> also find his leaving very reasonable.  I don't
want to feel bad because of
> an internet e-mail forum, that's not what it's
about.  I personally will not
> stick around to see all the other great
individuals on this list leave in
> frustration.  The tolerance of the individuals
on this list is a resounding comment
> regarding their good nature.  Refardless
tolerance is erroded with repetitious
> offence.  I will stick around until I see One
More significantly off-topic
> rant and then I will be gone as well without
further comment.
> Cheers.
> Andrew
> _______________________________________________
> Vwdiesel mailing list
> Vwdiesel at vwfans.com
Vwdiesel mailing list
Vwdiesel at vwfans.com

More information about the Vwdiesel mailing list