[Vwdiesel] lowering gasoline prices

James Hansen jhsg at sk.sympatico.ca
Thu Apr 18 10:50:58 EDT 2002

>    I guess you didn't really read my post, eh? Growing soybeans(48gal at acre)
>    for
> biodiesel is the dumbest idea I ever heard of.

Yes I did, but the reality is, that's what's available, due to beans being
crushed for cow food, the oil is essentially a waste byproduct of production of
soy meal.  It isn't a healthy oil to start with, but it's plentiful.

 Canola is better (127 gal @
> acre), castor beans better yet (151 gal @ acre), but for the best yeilds you
> want to go to permaculture crops, which also greating reduces the farming
> costs.
> Like jojoba (194), pecan (191), avacado (282), with oil palm being tops at
> gal at acre.

Yes, wonderful oil yields, but how much of the planet do you propose to to
cover with foo foo weed and google berries to supply the USA's voracious demand
for petroleum?  Most of the plants you list are very specific as to what
ecology they will grow in. That was 50 BILLION gallons man, not a couple of
drums out back of the shed.... 50 billion gallons of petroleum/biofuel/bug
squeezins/whatever.  Until the US learns to consume less, it might have to
learn to walk.

>    And that's only the oil crops. Perhaps you noticed the announcement of VW
> just awhile back about their new synfuel plant? Gasification of biomass, done
> from permaculture crops like switchgrass. Turn that whole DustBowl area back
> into native prairie and crop it for synfuel. Coppicing willows is another.
>    For that matter, gasify sewage biosolids for synfuel.

Now there is a use for cities finally.  Primary producers  of raw biomass for
synfuel production.  In the country we've known most of the people in the
cities were full of shit to begin with, it was just what to do with it was the

>    Lower yields? You've been reading too much agit-prop from DOW and
> Monsanto. Organic farmers equal and even exceed chemical farming yeilds all
> over
> the world.

I'm afraid not buddy.  It's a case of been there done that. The three year
transition from traditional to organic where you have low yields to sell, but
don't qualify as organic product, will take you out econmically. I cannot
afford to convert more than a few acres at a time, and the rest of the farm has
to subsidize the organic acres until they become certified organic. Without
alfalfa dehydration plants nearby, I can't produce a high enough value nitrogen
fixing crop to control weeds and fix N.  Buddy near Hudson Bay Sask is
certified, has an alfalfa dehy plant nearby, and we compare notes often- He's
just getting by. Without the high value feed crop it simply can't be done
around here. Don't ever let anyone tell you that the yields are higher with
organic, that's nonsense. Weeds compete most effectively, reducing yields.

>    Oh yeah?

Please don't accuse me of not reading something.  That's simply insulting and
serves no purpose at all.
If you had read MY post by now you would know I'm from Canada, not the US. :-)
 Our government couldn't care less what happened to farmers.  Yours seems to
have some idea that people need to eat something every now and again, and have
policy to back that up.  The food world is global, not just the USA my friend.
For the most part, the greenie organizations (forgive my generalization) exist
solely to perpetuate themselves.  They prey on city dwellers that for either
enviro-guilt or other social concerns wish to force their political ideals on
the other sector of the population that has to do the actual work.  The more
news they can generate, translates directly into donation revenue for the
organizations.  They could give a crap less whether they are saving the gay
baby whales for Jesus, or stopping the dirty agribusiness farmer from
poisioning the world, as long as they have something to howl and chirp about to
generate revenue for their salaries.
  I have had most of the info you've put forth presented to me back in 1987,
when I was forced to take an arts elective- took Philosophy...  Turned out to
be the "prof's forum for airing her personal socialist views 101".  Oh- the lab
was "fail if you don't agree with me".  For someone who proposed that she was a
philosopher, no amount of information to the contrary would change her mind-
she was indoctrinated, not informed, and saw nothing wrong with this.  She
still believes that we should all be farming like the Amish, and our yeilds
would exceed current production if only we'd listen to her nonsense. Trouble
is, she was NEVER involved in the actual doing of the work, producing of the
crops, had no idea other that what she was told, but was willing to believe the
left wing propaganda, rather than the reality she was faced with. I envy that
kind of "belief" sometimes, too bad her powers weren't being used for good....
 Just think about what is sustainable and what isn't Harmon.  If you can't pay
for it, it won't happen for long.  It would be a shame to see biofuels
launched, and fail due to gov't not being able to sustain a level of support
financially.  What really has to be done is use less fuel.


More information about the Vwdiesel mailing list