[Vwdiesel] Still having starting issues with the 82 vanagon diesel
eriklane at gmail.com
Wed Sep 16 10:38:29 PDT 2009
Ohms isn't good enough. For an iffy connection it can look perfect for
the microamps that a meter would put out, but it can't handle the
starting current and resistance will spike. Think of a restriction in
a water hose. It will let through a small amount with no trouble, but
it will never let through a fire hose amount. Need to check voltage
drop while you're trying to put the current through it. That will
tell. You're talking about smaller wires than the battery cables, I
see, but the same principle applies. If you only have a good
connection on a tiny portion of the connector then you're going to
have problems that won't necessarily show up with an ohmmeter.
But if it starts *every* time with jumpering it in back then it's most
likely something else. If you already have a relay then where is the
relay getting its power from? Are you sure that's good? How about the
stop solenoid on the injection pump? If you jumper that with 12V does
it make a difference in starting? That stop solenoid and the starter
itself are the only two things that need power for the engine to start
and run. (Well, the starter doesn't need power for running, but you
see what I mean.)
On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 9:19 AM, Bryan Belman <dieselwesty at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I put that relay in and with my original ignition switch about 3 weeks ago. It still did the same thing, turned over but would not start. I could not believe it because I had the wiring digram and all for the relay, as simple as it is.
> I did not try the relay with my new ignition switch.
> I also put an OMH meter on the 2 wires for the key, #10 Red and #10 Red/Black. Red, disconnected from Battery on one end and ohmed to ignition switch wire holder. Then, Red/Black from ignition switch holder back to the solinoid.
> They both did not show anything alarming for resistance so I am guessing they are good.
> Now do you see why I am pulling my hair out, lucky that I am to have some at my age. I will try putting the relay back in place then. OK
> Bryan Belman, Pt. Pleasant, NJ
> 04 Jetta Wagon TDI PD, 100hp, 5sp -- running :)
> 92 Jetta 1.6 Eco-Turbo Diesel -- running :)
> 82 Diesel Westy 1.9NA -- running :}
> 70 Type 1 stock Beetle -- Not running :(
> From: Erik Lane <eriklane at gmail.com>
> To: Bryan Belman <dieselwesty at yahoo.com>
> Cc: vwdiesel at vwfans.com
> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:49:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vwdiesel] Still having starting issues with the 82 vanagon diesel
> Oh, that changes things. If doing that always starts it then your
> wires are just fine. At least the battery ones. You're just not
> getting enough power from the small wires going all the way up to the
> ignition switch and back. Put a small relay in the engine compartment
> and have that controlled by the ignition switch and then have the
> output of the relay power the starter solenoid. That way only a very
> small switching signal needs to go the length of the van and back. It
> should be pretty easy to do and not cost much.
> On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 8:33 AM, Bryan Belman <dieselwesty at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Yeap, I forgot to mention that a wire from the solinoid extra tab, or the remote start trick from the back of the van, ALWAYS start the van on 1/2 a rotation. So, I am pretty sure my battery has enough emmph and the starter is good.
>> I will go with removing the ends from my battery cables, cleaning them up, as my positive cable does not have much extra but I could cut some off the neg. then have autozone crimp new ends on them.
>> thanks all, that should do it for good and would explain a good bit of this issue. I would love to get my original ignition switch to work again, as I do not think it is fried, just tired, but to change it is a big task, removing steering wheel and all of that stuff...ahh
>> Bryan Belman, Pt. Pleasant, NJ
>> 04 Jetta Wagon TDI PD, 100hp, 5sp -- running :)
>> 92 Jetta 1.6 Eco-Turbo Diesel -- running :)
>> 82 Diesel Westy 1.9NA -- running :}
>> 70 Type 1 stock Beetle -- Not running :(
>> From: Erik Lane <eriklane at gmail.com>
>> To: Bryan Belman <dieselwesty at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: vwdiesel at vwfans.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:19:45 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Vwdiesel] Still having starting issues with the 82 vanagon diesel
>> To be absolutely sure that you have found your problem, check the
>> voltage drop from the cables with a meter while trying to start. Put
>> one lead from the meter at each end of one of the cables and measure
>> voltage while cranking. Then repeat for the other cable. Anything more
>> than .1 or .2V is suspect, I think. Definitely if you're seeing
>> anything like .5V or 1V drop in each cable you've got problems. If
>> you're thinking of having a cable made up I would make sure to get
>> something really heavy duty. I'm not sure an Autozone place would have
>> anything good enough. You want welding cable sizes. Really fat. If the
>> cable isn't frayed inside then I don't see how it would be bad in
>> there - likely just the ends have too much corrosion. If you get the
>> ends off of the cable and clean up the copper really well and have
>> some place put new ends on for you that will probably work. It wasn't
>> exactly cheap, but we picked up our own end crimper to be able to do
>> exactly that. We've reused quite a few cables very successfully by
>> replacing the ends.
>> On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 7:54 AM, Bryan Belman <dieselwesty at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> I am getting closer to finding this gremlin, I think battery cables are next.
>>> Here is what I have done,
>>> 1. load tested battery with a cheap load tester, but it says it is good, this is group 41 battery from my old Audi 200, 850CC AMP, it is good.
>>> 2. Cleaned all battery terminal ends, saw some green stuff on the end that connects to the starter, hit it with wire brush and put some sodder in there, this is the issue still, I think.
>>> 3. starting the van now with my original ignition switch almost 100% of the time, motor turns over but not fast enough to start I guess, seems to turn fine, but does not start.
>>> 4. using a new ignition switch and a screw driver, it starts right up when cold, every time.
>>> 5. Then when the motor is hot or warm, I get the same results using the original ignition switch still in the column. plug into the new ignition switch, I get a clunk, I can hear the starter solenoid go clunk, but no start. Try again, clunk.
>>> Now for the key........
>>> My temp sender to sense when the coolant temp is hot does not work or is the wrong one, my glow plug relay does not get the signal and always has been cycling the 7 seconds for the glows. Yes, I need to fix this.
>>> So, when the motor is hot and I let the glow plug cycle complete, say 8 seconds, then the motor will turn over, no clunk of the starter solenoid.
>>> OK, this is certainly electrical. Should I get new battery cables made up?
>>> Is there a certain size I should get for the diesel or do regular battery cables from any Autozone place work?
>>> Thanks, this is driving me nuts............... it has been an on-going issue for a long time but I have never swapped battery cables.........ahhh, that must be it.
>>> Bryan Belman, Pt. Pleasant, NJ
>>> 04 Jetta Wagon TDI PD, 100hp, 5sp -- running :)
>>> 92 Jetta 1.6 Eco-Turbo Diesel -- running :)
>>> 82 Diesel Westy 1.9NA -- running :}
>>> 70 Type 1 stock Beetle -- Not running :(
>>> Vwdiesel mailing list
>>> Vwdiesel at vwfans.com
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