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Comparing Units

>>That would be me, and it is not based off of anything hard core in terms 
of numbers, i am only saying what it seems to be.  it seems to be that 
t>here is a huge amount of performance, objective performance in this 
>regard, in the Audi chassis.  I also said that i dont have exact numbers, 
>and am basing it off of what i have read and impressions.  I would say 
>that most definitely, objectively, that audi is one of the top 5 marquees 
>when it comes to ultimate, objective performance.  
.Still, the one indesputable fact is that porsche still is number one, no 
>matter where audi is...
Porsche is NOT number one IMO.  Bmw is.  Other than the formidible 993tt,
Porsche has some work ahead of them.  The M5 of 99 is to have 400+hp, that
might be enough to topple the Stuttgart boys.  The boxter can be bested by a
Z3 6banger (without the M), and the rest of the porsche line can be equaled in
performance by a 4door 540i.  Depends on your criteria I suppose.  I see the
993 as a "supercar" not a production car.  When buying a supercar, ulitmate
performance IS the objective.  I guess the term "depth" of the field comes to
my mind.  

Audi in the top 5?  With what?  If we include 'Porsche' Mr. Williams, I
believe you to specifically Exclude audi.  Since the 993tt compares only to
the supercars I believe your list would be BMW, Toyota, Porsche, Ferrari, and
maybe even Chevy (not to mention the plethora of marque specialty cars, honda
included).  Audi wouldn't be in there, might just make the top 10.  I believe,
"objectively" of course, that audi is way behind in the production performance
market, and really hasn't "objectively" or "subjectively" courted that market
in some time.  A performance car has more than awd and a mid-pack HP motor.  

Even the most tweeked of audis, don't equal some of the rock stock machines
coming out of the production car field.  This is the Q-list, we enjoy
commiserate and (a few of us anyhow) compare our units to the field.  Making a
q out to be more than it is, is nationalism.  Hardly Objective.  Objective has
to do with reality.  The reality is that unless you are driving a tweeked
audi, "depth" of field comes to mind again...  Then stopping becomes an
issue....  And the audi chassis, 'objectively', could use some of the notes
BMW used, in the stiffness department, btdrovethat.  Put wider tires on a q,
the wander is objectively and subjectively a bit disconcerting, the latest 'S'
cars specifically included.

As you and Matt both pointed out, subjective and objectively, you can't
compare the 'race' cars.  A place everyone wants to hang comparos.  If we had
available half of what the race cars did, you might be able to 'objectively'
claim 'performance'.  Again, the reality of that lags some...  The bread and
butter should be offset by the performance standards.  A quick compare of audi
and bmw here, hardly needs a subjective or objective comment.

Always optimistic that audi *can* do it, another RS2 maybe.....
My .02

Scott Justusson