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Re: Learning takes comprehension

In a message dated 98-05-05 18:35:16 EDT, Dave E write:

>so far i have provided documentation of my own considerable efforts to
 >my torsen audis into uncontrolled behaviour when cornering.  the spider bite
 >(tm).  i have failed to do so.
If you don't understand HOW a torsen bites, works, or doesn't, how can you
make considerable efforts to provoke anything?  Jeff's point is that you don't
get it, in concept.  So how can you?
 >phil has done the same thing.  same result.
See above
> i am one of the very few on this list who has actually *owned* a generation
 >ur-quattro w/open centre (2 years) and a torsen ur-quattro (2 years).  i
> considerable 1st hand experience of these two cars and had my scariest
> moment with the open diff car.  so documented.  and noticed a considerable
 >improvement in the handling with the torsen.  certainly scott and jeff have
> *never* even *driven* the ur-quattro with torsen, let alone the rs2.
 >this (learning disability alert), they refuse to even *consider* that there
> might be other factors in the equation and other people are trying to tell
> them. 
Dave.  Owning cars does not change physics of the torsen, the concept (that
you admitted) that a torsen can be fooled.  A torsen can be fooled based on
slip angle and relative slip angle in a given chassis.  You can't change that
by a nonevent argument, all due respect to your driving "efforts".  Nor does
Carroll Smith address that anywhere in his book.  A torsen fooled is fooled.
YOU can't predict what it can and can't do.  Why?  Cuz slip angle and relative
slip angles are variables that aren't always controlled by driver input.    Be
careful of your torsen facts, there is so little reference to torsens in
racing, you hardly make any points there.
 >both jeff and scott have been unable to tell me, depiste all the retoric and
> theory, *how* to produce said uncontrollable behaviour in my cars.
Back to first grade again.  Go to your "efforts" to elicit bite.  How can you
"effort" anything?  You admit you don't understand it, or know how to produce
it.  Stop Dave, and enjoy your q's for what they are.  Pardon us for NOT
enjoying them for what the absolute traction devices aren't.  What did you
learn in all your efforts. NOTHING.  Not nonevents, not conceptualizing
anything, not gaining insight by chocholeks statements about the device.  That
is learning disabled, sir.
 >i have even researched their points (eg slip angle) and found that (no
> here), it is *not* as they suggest.
NO.  You have made a very tunnel vision view and plagorized statements out of
Carroll Smiths book.  You have taken his words, and conclude, that a torsen is
doing the right things in a turn.  And yet you admit it can be fooled in a
turn.  Which is it?  You can't have it both ways dave.  Sorry.  You have also
not addressed a variable that Chocholek SPECIFIED, which is relative slip
angle as fooling the torsen.  Your research is incomplete and without merit.  
 >learning disabled?  not from where i sit buddy.
OK, Kazinski said he wasn't crazy either.  You don't understand Dave.  You
don't understand chassis dynamics, torsens, or your own arguments.  So
documented.  Yelling louder that you have addressed Everything, just makes
some smile.  You missed the boat a long time ago.
 >but then, i'm not selling product to the list either; turbos, suspension or
Ah yes, just selling misinformation.  On a device that has some unfriendly
dark sides.  Some hope that you might learn something about torsens, the same
as turbos, suspension and brakes, clutches, fixes, diagnostics, formulas, and
theory.  No one here sells torsens, and yet, BECAUSE of you, many have spent
way too much time selling YOU on the concept of the device.  And you don't get
it.  No big deal.  Just don't sell misinformation here Dave.  You are
misinformed about torsens, and you have all the resources (for free) to BE
informed.  That is learning disabled, a reading comprehension problem.  No big
deal, you get an A for effort, and an F on the final.  About average, weighted
Happy to take your personals.  Don't change outcomes of the "dumb gear-jamming
frictional device" in a turn.  All your experience and selling to the contrary
so noted.

Scott Justusson